Thread: Kronzilla , Odeon , Aeries Cerat and Apogees ....

http://zero-distortion.org/odeon-hor...gee-scintilla/

Thanks.

Here are some pics



The notes go through

Listening to Aries Cerat Diana and KR SX Kronzilla on the Odeon Nr. 38 at Christoph’s
Listening to the Odeon Nr. 38 with Lamm M1.1 at Christoph’s neighbor, Michael
Krell KSA 100 with Apogee Scintilla, heavily modded by Henk at another neighbor, Rolf. Hifi Hood in Liechenstein

These are beautiful speakers. I was very fortunate to hear two Odeon models at an audio show in Taipei in December of 2015. One pair was very similar to the blue horn speakers above. The other model was the more modest Tosca, I believe though the Tosca in today's Odeon website appears somewhat different from my memory.

The larger speakers overpowered the room we were in. However, the Tosca filled the room with wonderful music.

Congratulations!

Michael

I additionally came across this http://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/revi...ening-session/

Excited by the Scintilla the previous weekend, I visited Henk since I had one day off for Easter.

I have now chosen the Scintilla over the Duetta and the Diva. So that leaves me with a Scintilla and a horn choice that I will close off in June

http://zero-distortion.org/apogee_duetta_scintilla/

Originally Posted by bonzo

Excited by the Scintilla the previous weekend, I visited Henk since I had one day off for Easter.

I have now chosen the Scintilla over the Duetta and the Diva. So that leaves me with a Scintilla and a horn choice that I will close off in June

http://zero-distortion.org/apogee_duetta_scintilla/

So you prefer the direct drive ribbons , i do too , cant get mine with the traces to sound the same , the 1 ohm does roast amplifiers and will limit your amplifier choices. The Krells are really good at 1 ohm , The FPB series not as happy as the older series , but much better in the top end. Best results for me was with a modded KSA 200. Regarding toobs, the BAT mono and VAC mono has 1 ohm taps , extensive conversation with VAC suggest their i200 mono's have no issues but its only 200/200 ..

What about the FR vs Scinnie ... ??

Originally Posted by a.wayne

So you prefer the direct drive ribbons , i do too , cant get mine with the traces to sound the same , the 1 ohm does roast amplifiers and will limit your amplifier choices. The Krells are really good at 1 ohm , The FPB series not as happy as the older series , but much better in the top end. Best results for me was with a modded KSA 200. Regarding toobs, the BAT mono and VAC mono has 1 ohm taps , extensive conversation with VAC suggest their i200 mono's have no issues but its only 200/200 ..

What about the FR vs Scinnie ... ??

Wow VAC too? In many ways that's the best amp from what I am hearing. Hope to listen soon

FR vs Scinnie - you won't miss anything on mids, Scinnie will probably image more coherently due to size. But FR is a bass monster best avoided unless you have a giant room, while Scinnie will fit in medium rooms more nicely. And FR is a project in terms of biamping, adding crossovers, etc

What do you think of these measurements at 1 ohm?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/s...r-measurements

I like the VAC in the Mono configuration , heard them at Mike's, very little Toob traces at all and good drive on the S3...

Originally Posted by bonzo

What do you think of these measurements at 1 ohm?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/s...r-measurements

It has the right heat sinking and good power for low-Z operation , still hard to tell if it will be reliable at 1 ohm , since they were having bench issues with it.

As first mentioned, Figure on a merry go round of amplfiers until happy ...

Try the stages Norman and Joe Manley Speakers were originally his father's setup ...


@Bonzo

The stages are better than you give credit and actually measure better than the others , very good in small rooms and only fails due to the smaller sweet spot and height sensitivity.

IMO, The mini grands were the sweet spot of them all and a favorite ..


Regards

Never heard the stages

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Try the stages Norman and Joe Manley Speakers were originally his father's setup ...


@Bonzo

The stages are better than you give credit and actually measure better than the others , very good in small rooms and only fails due to the smaller sweet spot and height sensitivity.

IMO, The mini grands were the sweet spot of them all and a favorite ..


Regards

Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield

There is a gent here in Brooksville that does Apogee restorations. Are there others?

Where is Brooksville? The two official restorers are in Nevada, and another near NY - just outside I think. I have only heard Rich Murry (Nevada) Duettas which were excellent

Yes I would get them restored from Henk in Holland.

In the writeup I posted exactly how I think both systems do realism using different approaches.

I think everyone on this forum is an audiophile, level of audiophilia might differ . That's why I really like Joe and Mike Lavigne, they just get on embracing various aspects of the hobby.

Audiophilia does not mean you need to own a system. You could be interested in surfing audiophile forums no end. I love listening to, and writing about systems. Some love hosting. Joe loves swapping. It’s like sports – you can play, watch, coach, train, read, memorize stats. Various aspects.

There are more differences among different horns then there are between horns and other designs.

Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield

But the fact of the matter is that your dichotomy is horns/panels. Whichever you end up choosing, a horn is not going to sound like a panel and a panel is not going to sound like a horn, in your room.
It's one or the other, sound at LP wise.

I am not saying they sound anywhere the same. They communicate realism very differently but equally real. Had they been the same choice would have been easier (e.g. Duetta and Scintilla).

Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield

Yes, again, aspects. The horn dynamics, "blatt", etc. having the edge in realism, the panel, scale of spatial rendering, "see through" into soundstage, etc., lack of box 6db less power into room modes/decay, bass has better pitch and definition...but less 'slam", etc, etc, etc, etc.
You were searching for the Holy Grail...and found two.
Being a live classical music fan myself, which frontal stereo 2ch systems you listened to, gave the best immersion and cues from the hall behind you?

Immersive behind you – Auro 3d or Atmos multichannel.

Like I said in the article, horns do close up immersion of smaller venues better, more fluid and flowing on piano, and brass. Panels do back of centre orchestral in a bigger venue better, and arias better. Both do others strengths well.

And I don’t like to generalize panels and horns. Trios don’t do realism the same way either of these horns or Apogees do, but do it by doing tremendous shock and awe on impact, bass and dynamics, wall to wall and top to bottom soundstage, great imaging. The bespoke horns I have in mind also do great bass. With panels, such bass will only come from an Apogee Full Range or Grand, which I will never have the space for. But they are pure ribbon so have the best mids

The above Sums it up for me , Horns have better percussive energy and excell over ribbon linesource on Brass , Ribbon linesource excels on choral , Opera etc , non a panacea , so room for all ..

Now what if you were to place that linesource ribbon in a Horn ....