Thread: I call out Stealth Cables and Apology to Cable Deniers....

A call out to Stealth Cables and Apology to Cable Deniers everywhere:


I Call Out Stealth Audio. #hifi #audiophile #hifiaudio - YouTube

After watching most of the video I have no idea why you titled it what you did unless to get more people to click on it, the title is unrelated to the video. Hopefully others will watch as to not get the wrong idea. As for me I'd never apologize to cable deniers. I'm sure not all cables do what they claim but for those to mislead others based on nothing but suspicion is unforgiveable. All I can tell people is to try for yourself, once you know, you know. Let the deniers keep clanging.

Also, as a side note, we all like what we like but the Pass Int 250 has been a TAS editor choice of the year for about 3 straight years now, so time for you to let it go. There are people here who listened to both Lux and Pass and walked out with Pass. In my opinion it gives you no more clout to keep mentioning you didn't like it. Just the opposite.

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

After watching most of the video I have no idea why you titled it what you did unless to get more people to click on it, the title is unrelated to the video. Hopefully others will watch as to not get the wrong idea. As for me I'd never apologize to cable deniers. I'm sure not all cables do what they claim but for those to mislead others based on nothing but suspicion is unforgiveable. All I can tell people is to try for yourself, once you know, you know. Let the deniers keep clanging.

Also, as a side note, we all like what we like but the Pass Int 250 has been a TAS editor choice of the year for about 3 straight years now, so time for you to let it go. There are people here who listened to both Lux and Pass and walked out with Pass. In my opinion it gives you no more clout to keep mentioning you didn't like it. Just the opposite.

Hi - you must have missed the part of the video where I apologized.

Also, I didn't realize opinions had a shelf life before you expect people to let them go. Can you please let me know how long people are allowed to have opinions before you expect them to let them go?

I have over 1,000 new subscribers since the Pass video, so many of them didn't know about that vid or how I felt about it. It's not all about you. I used it as an example that I say what I think even if it's not popular and I take heat for it - much like from you for me having a different opinion than you. And the fact that others buy the Pass as you describe MUST mean I am wrong. I mean, they must know better than me what works in my system, right? LOL

As I clearly stated in the video it a fantastic amp, many people love that amp, but it didn't jell in my system and as I tell everyone I'm sure it was a system synergy issue. I didn't realize if TAS likes something, no one else is allowed to hold a different opinion as you suggest. Besides, who cares what anyone else thinks about something? I only care if I like a component. Not sure how I could have been more clear with my comments on the vid but you must have missed that part as well.

You clearly missed much in the video to come post this, But thanks for watching the vid! .

It's not your opinion, keep it as long as you live, it has become your shtick, I see it here and now in your videos, it's old, that's why I say let it go. And it that's all you have to show that you are a reviewer of your word, sad. Nice try to justify but you clearly missed my point. I own neither amp and have no preference. Since you felt compelled to let your 1,000 new subscribers know you didn't prefer the Pass I guess that's your way of saying you feel you need all your followers to know and you'll never stop using your listening session as an example in the case you should happen to gain more subscribers. Please, don't flatter yourself, there's no heat here regarding your "opinion" of amps, as I stated I have neither nor a preference. I really think you make too much of your choice in amps, that what it was a choice. You listened to two, one had to go, simple. You try to make that a badge of honor of some sort.

As far as watching the entire video, you and most YouTubers should learn to get to the point. I mean your build up lost me I was just interested in seeing what's up with the cable. As an example, maybe just mention your stuttering thing once opposed to the several times that you did.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

Hi - you must have missed the part of the video where I apologized.

Also, I didn't realize opinions had a shelf life before you expect people to let them go. Can you please let me know how long people are allowed to have opinions before you expect them to let them go?

I have over 1,000 new subscribers since the Pass video, so many of them didn't know about that vid or how I felt about it. It's not all about you. I used it as an example that I say what I think even if it's not popular and I take heat for it - much like from you for me having a different opinion than you. And the fact that others buy the Pass as you describe MUST mean I am wrong. I mean, they must know better than me what works in my system, right? LOL

As I clearly stated in the video it a fantastic amp, many people love that amp, but it didn't jell in my system and as I tell everyone I'm sure it was a system synergy issue. I didn't realize if TAS likes something, no one else is allowed to hold a different opinion as you suggest. Besides, who cares what anyone else thinks about something? I only care if I like a component. Not sure how I could have been more clear with my comments on the vid but you must have missed that part as well.

You clearly missed much in the video to come post this, But thanks for watching the vid! .

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

It's not your opinion, keep it as long as you live, it has become your shtick, I see it here and now in your videos, it's old, that's why I say let it go. And it that's all you have to show that you are a reviewer of your word, sad. Nice try to justify but you clearly missed my point. I own neither amp and have no preference. Since you felt compelled to let your 1,000 new subscribers know you didn't prefer the Pass I guess that's your way of saying you feel you need all your followers to know and you'll never stop using your listening session as an example in the case you should happen to gain more subscribers. Please, don't flatter yourself, there's no heat here regarding your "opinion" of amps, as I stated I have neither nor a preference. I really think you make too much of your choice in amps, that what it was a choice. You listened to two, one had to go, simple. You try to make that a badge of honor of some sort.

As far as watching the entire video, you and most YouTubers should learn to get to the point. I mean your build up lost me I was just interested in seeing what's up with the cable. As an example, maybe just mention your stuttering thing once opposed to the several times that you did.

LOL. My schtick? You're nuts, man. Absolutely totally nuts. You need to relax - it's just a video. In fact based on your posts it may be better for you just to stop watching YouTube. LOL

You still titled it that way to get clicks and that was the point.

When going from a stock printer type USB and inserting an Audio Quest Diamond the improvement was dramatic, not subtle. Saying whether the AQ improved the sound quality or the stock cable degraded is semantic, bottom line the sound quality was much better.

I have heard differences when comparing one quality cable to another but those are more subtle.

Originally Posted by Alkyogre

I have multiple sources and tried many cables, optical spdif, usb. The differences are subtile at maximum, or sometimes for me inaudible.

If someone is saying that when changing a usb cable it sounds like having other speakers then the cable is wrong. In that case its adds something that is not original.

A good cable does not make sound quality better, but it minimizes the loss in quality. This is not a unique cable, it is just a copper alloy with some shielding, like other brands also do and there is no way that can improve SQ.

Originally Posted by Alkyogre

I don’t say that there aren’t quality differences in cables oh no.

But what i am saying is that if someone posts that it is like having other speakers then the cables must have altered something, and in that case I look further for something else.

You may want to educate yourself on what the adjustable collar on the Stealth does as I explained that in past videos. . Especially with your demonstrable false statement of "This is not a unique cable, it is just a copper alloy".

Been awhile since I heard that old argument of "your other cable must be broken". Made me laugh.

You also state "The differences are subtile at maximum". That's typically the stance of someone with poor hearing, poor system set up, or just a mediocre system. I will give you guys credit thought, you continually put your foot in your mouth by trying to tell others what they can and can't hear regardless of reality.

I have found that major sonic benefits can come from what can be perceived as small changes.

For example my MSB DAC is very sensitive to the power source. It sounds good either way, but get it right and the difference is profound and yes it sounds like the speakers are performing far better.

Every system and situation is different and getting everything optimized turns good sound into amazing sound.

Originally Posted by MattHooper

Hookay.

Unfortunately your video is pretty much indistinguishable from countless personal testaments to pseudoscience. (Which doesn't entail that the cable IS pseudoscience and doesn't alter the sound: only that you provide nothing beyond mere anecdote...and no particular technical plausibility...for your claims).

So, it will be only persuasive to folks who already believe the type of things you believe, for the same type of reasons.

LOL. FYI most people here actually use their ears. But thanks for watching the vid. . I love it when cable deniers watch videos on cables and torture themselves.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

You are clearly on the wrong forum. People here actually use their ears.

for the record Michael, they do on the other forums as well !

Originally Posted by Mikado463

for the record Michael, they do on the other forums as well !

Hey Dave - Definitely true. I've found (in a positive way) this forum seems to have a higher number of people who actually listen with their ears vs. the unhappy cable deniers that seem to rule the roost on other forums (though certainly not all forums).

Originally Posted by MattHooper

That's a tired, inaccurate cliche. Amir listens. So do I. So do most people on his forum.

In fact I have a hunch I have often tested my ears more stringently than you have in evaluating some gear. I've actually tested myself *only* using my ears, not my eyes, no peeking. (In other words, controlling for sighted bias). I'm not suggesting that you have to or should bother blind testing anything at all. I don't blind test everything and the hobby is fun either way. BUT....If you want to talk "using your ears" that's when the rubber hits the road, and you can't cheat by knowing what you are listening to. (It's not for nothing that if you really want to get an accurate picture of what you can hear, you go to an audiologist and it will be a blind test).

I also gave your site some other clicks, looking at a few videos. I appreciated for instance your tour of an audio store. It's always nice to have a virtual visit to those places (I enjoy audio stores, too bad there are so few now!). Though the amount of emphasis put on the cabling started to feel bizarre, almost obsessive, including the constant graphics pointing to "Stealth Cables." Did I miss something and you are a dealer for those cables? Or are you just a fan?

Another thing that stuck out was your video on Ignore Hi-Fi Reviewers. I certainly think you made some fair points about different hearing, different rooms etc. (Though I don't think those are in the end total obstacles to a subjective review being informative and useful).

However you made some common, dubious remarks about measurements. It's very common for technically naive audiophiles to project their own ignorance. For instance:

"If someone tells me that measurements are going to tell them how something sounds, I think that's completely ridiculous."

That seems to translate to "I don't understand how measurements correlate to sound...so neither does anyone else."

It's hard to take another charitable inference especially when you follow up with...

"There is no way that the frequency response of a speaker is going to tell you about the tonality of a speaker..."

...which is very strange. Of course frequency response variations help decide the tonality of a speaker...as it does everything else!
How could it not? If a speaker is mostly flat but has a 4dB rise from 4K onward, it's going to indicate some added brightness, other things being equal, vs a speaker without that rise.

I work in pro sound, post production, and if I, or any of the mixers, had no idea of the sonic consequences of different frequency profiles, we would not be able to quickly and constructively use EQ to fix or modify the sound! It would just be random tiddling of knobs "hey, I wonder what this will do?" No...the sonic effects of various peaks and dips in frequency response are something you can learn, and are well known in mixing. Have a look:

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...9&d=1631366831

There is no magic dividing line between predicting the sonic consequences of adjusting frequency response (heard through speakers!) vs the sonic consequences of different frequency profiles a speaker would impose on the sound. There *are* other things to consider, such as off axis frequency response, but that too is quite well studied. As Floyd Toole has cited from careful research, frequency response is a very powerful tool, and can also tell you if there are audible resonances etc in loudspeakers.

Now, you may not care about measurements...nobody has to care. But to project upon others that they can't predict some salient characteristics from measurements is a mistake. (And it can also be predicted from measurements what YOU will hear. For instance, with low enough distortion, it can be predicted you will not hear differences between A and B components...)

And you also said this:

"But don't try and correlate pure measurements with how something is purely going to sound."

Why in the world not? What do you think audio engineering is about? The history of audio, and it's advancement, is that of understand how sound works on a technical/scientific level, by correlating what can be engineered and measured to the sonic consequences. That's how it has progressed...not by shamanic rituals or inferences from dreams or feelings or whatever.

This is why, as I said, your video(s) have some of the character of pseudo-scientific (or perhaps even anti-scientific) thinking.

Cheers.

Holy crap, did you really just waste 30 minutes of your life typing all that??? LOL.

Sure. What ever you say. I'm sure you're right even though I didn't bother to read it.

I have the best instruments in the world and the ONLY ones that matter - my own ears.

Excuse me while I go listen to music and not useless measurements.

Systems of known cable deniers on Facebook.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Originally Posted by MattHooper

Audiophiles defending their expensive cables (and other tweaks) try that one all the time.

"Oh, you expressed some skepticism about a cable? Your system must suuuuuck. Where do you shop? Radio shack?"

Then when I tell them the equipment I own (and have owned)...it's silence and evasion...on to some other silly insult.
(see: MichaelsMinute for example).

Doesn't work very well when people try this move on Amir either (Amir's system):

Let’s see your system. If you don’t think cables make a difference, awesome! Don’t spend your money on them. Buy lamp cord from Home Depot. Save the money.

But those who have tried multiple cables know they make a huge difference. So why does that bother you? If you think it’s all nonsense, cool, awesome, save your money. Others who’ve tried multiple cables love what they hear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Originally Posted by MattHooper

I have no problem posting photos of my system if someone is actually interested, rather than just looking for a "gotcha."

So first: What will posting my system tell you? If it is sufficiently high end, won't you just move to "well then his hearing must be the problem?"

That's pretty much how it goes every time I post my system. Doesn't get us anywhere.



I'm open to anything making a difference. But when the claims are controversial among people with relevant expertise, I prefer stronger evidence than anecdotes. I use Belden 10awg speaker cable, but I've used any number of "high end" speaker cables previously (usually cast offs from audiophiles more in to cables, and they upgraded. I've also used all sorts of interconnects in my system, as I mentioned Nordost, Audience, AudioQuest and others. Given or loaned to me when I need more cables. I've also heard my speakers (which I sold to a reviewer friend) hooked up to some of the top Nordost, Crystal cable and others.



It doesn't "bother" me so much as it's part of our hobby to be interested in gear and how or whether it works. Why does it bother you if someone is a cable skeptic? (Your previous post suggests it does).

Hashing out claims from manufacturers, exchanging notes and opinions on gear is part of why people hang out on enthusiast forums. I have no problem with people having different opinions nor I think should you. But expressing reasons for skepticism about some other audiophiles claim shouldn't be taken as some personal affront.

And, remember, I'm not just jumping in to some thread in which people were happily discussing their new cables. It was a deliberate "call out" vid/thread for "cable deniers" where (it turns out) the OP calls skeptics "deaf." I'm not a "denier" but I know that cable fans love to pigeon hole any level of skepticism in to the "denier" category, so the OP was clearly calling out people with alternative opinions.

I mean...perhaps some prefer an echo-chamber. I don't. I like an exchange of views (when people are mature enough to handle that, which the OP clearly is not).

If your system is not sufficiently resolving, like the ones I’ve shown, then cables don’t matter and we agree! But on the flip side, resolving high end systems have no problem showing the differences between cables. If they didn’t, the cable industry would not exist. We would all use lamp cord.

Similarly, if you’re driving a 4 cylinder 20 year old sedan, putting 93 octane in the tank won’t make a difference. But try using 87 octane with a high end performance car and find out.

You’re not a believer in cables. We get it. Cool. Save your money and buy more music.

But let me leave you with a little story. When I was deciding on cables for my own system, I spent 30 days trying a wide variety of cables. I had a preset playlist and kept the volume the same. I started with the IC’s between the DAC and preamp. I went through a wide variety and they all exhibited various sonic benefits, mostly due to their capacitance, high, low, medium, whatever. High capacitance cables smoother on top, plumper on the bottom end. Low capacitance cables with more air and detail. But when I got to the Odin 2, I could hear this person breathing, I could hear them swallow on the recording, I literally jumped out of my chair thinking someone was in the room! That’s how resolving this cable is. I went back to others to make sure I didn’t miss it. Nope, the Odin 2 brought it right to the forefront. It “dug” deeper.


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nothing like a good 'cable discussion' over ones morning coffee !!

Originally Posted by Mikado463

nothing like a good 'cable discussion' over ones morning coffee !!

I have been chuckling about the Psychic having a Job, but the ones near me can never predict nobody will show up on any given day and they stay open for 12 hours or more

Originally Posted by Shadowfax

I have been chuckling about the Psychic having a Job, but the ones near me can never predict nobody will show up on any given day and they stay open for 12 hours or more

That's funny. LOL

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

That's funny. LOL

Just to be fair, I just watched the video. I like the enthusiasm and verbal descriptions but......With all the recording gear you have and the degree of change you heard, it should be easily demonstrable even in a You Tube video. A demo of a cable swap and sound change would be 100 times more convincing. They did it with the Iso Acoustic footers on Focal speakers in a YT video so anyone should be able to hear the dramatic changes you heard as long as they have most of their hearing intact.

Originally Posted by Shadowfax

Just to be fair, I just watched the video. I like the enthusiasm and verbal descriptions but......With all the recording gear you have and the degree of change you heard, it should be easily demonstrable even in a You Tube video. A demo of a cable swap and sound change would be 100 times more convincing. They did it with the Iso Acoustic footers on Focal speakers in a YT video so anyone should be able to hear the dramatic changes you heard as long as they have most of their hearing intact.

Hey Brian - for sure and I don't disagree - it's a fair comment you made. Each video I makes takes between 30-40 hours to make in the current form. I still have other things to so in life including a job. I don't have the bandwidth as a 1 man operation to add additional HOURS of trying to record with a mic, capture the sound correctly, and then editing. I am already backed up by something like 14 more reviews that are waiting for me to get out. AND that's not even counting the 23 videos I have to make for another channel regarding CINE.

It simply becomes a matter of there are a lot of things I'd like to do in the vids, but just don't have the time.

My vids are designed as I've been saying as an audio journey - covering my experiences and thoughts. There are other channels and websites that do a great job with the recordings that people can go to if they'd like.

And finally I do believe anyone who is serious about any of the gear I talk about is going to demo it in their home, their system and to their ears to see if it works for them and not rely on Youtube as a source.

I appreciate your thoughts as aways and you watching the vid!

Classic Brian !

' Placebo Effect, Expectation Bias, Psychoacoustics' , an understanding of these three and an acceptance of their influence is what is paramount to anyone with reasonable, cognitive behavior................

If it sounds better to me, I will prefer it to something I think does not. Measure that!

Matt and those who liked his posts, you cannot tell what a speaker sounds like from a spec sheet. First of all Matt goes on to say later that he does do some listening and secondly if you can tell by specs there wouldn't be a need for any audition. You can find speakers in Stereophile that measure close to the same and sound quite different. Plus you cannot measurement aspects of how a speaker will present a sound stage or other relevant factors that would come into play to please a listener. I doubt his Joseph has a flat line response.

Matt would be offended if called a Troll but he keeps the argument going and pretty much contradicts himself. It makes no sense that someone like him has actually listened to cables and heard no difference. For those of us who know there's differences it's like telling us it's midnight when it's actually noon. It makes him look so absurd to us, like he believes the world is flat. He starts out hardline then slowly relents some points he made prior. If cables make no difference why even bother with audiophile hand me downs. You make no sense.

Interesting that a measurement man would stick a CJ preamp on front of a Benchmark. Benchmark for being known as having good measurements but subjectively not being so pleasant to listen to, CJ is sort of the opposite end of the pond sounding very good IMO with a touch of romance depending on unit. The combo is understandable but why Matt would do it is not based on his posted comments.

I love the way deniers try to beat people with DBT, when you actually look at one they want to give about 3 seconds of a song like they are afraid you might just hear something. They also know we all live in other parts of the country or world so the test would never happen. If we do them ourselves then it's not controlled. Matt go back to ASR, bye.

It's also funny how cable companies have a voodoo they can put on customers to make them believe anything. They have a special magic that no other industry seems to be able to get their hands on. Consumers will eventually put a company out of business selling products that don't live up to the claim but cable companies seem to be able use the voodoo to avoid the power of simple economics.

Matt is here to save you all and you don't appreciate it, your so unable to think for yourselves and prone to being made a fool of yet somehow you are all professionals who manage to have the means to buy gear most of us dream of.

I just read this entire thread in one sitting.

My head hurts...

Originally Posted by chops

I just read this entire thread in one sitting.

My head hurts...

Its better to read it with a shot glass of your fav whiskey, it eases the pain.

Originally Posted by CPP

Its better to read it with a shot glass of your fav whiskey, it eases the pain.

Now you tell me... LOL

Like Charles, I have been reading this thread... and my head hurts.

I have determined that Matt has decided that everybody in the AudioShark world needs his saving from us wasting money on cables.

I certainly do not claim to know all nor claim to have the best gear. I have what works for me and update as needs and/or desires dictate. I have been at friends' houses with some ultimate type of gear (way beyond my means or desires) while cable shoot outs were taking place. All way beyond anything I would ever consider, however there were obvious but subtle improvements. It is up to each person to determine how much of a difference is worth the cost, and also how much my particular setup could benefit from such cables.

I determined a long time ago that better cables do improve my system, to a point. There certainly are diminishing returns depending on level of cable .

I also put forth the proposition that if your gear level and means qualify for the best then there certainly are viable and real differences.

I do find it absolutely amazing that a new user comes on this forum and every post made is in some way trying to save us from spending our money on "snake oil". He even tries to get into a pissing match with the owner of this forum; maybe unaware of who Mike is? Mike also owns maybe the top high end audio B&M store in the country, certainly on the east coast . But he definitely sounds like someone in need of saving to me .

BTW, Neil deGrasse Tyson's quote (check my sig) definitely apply when conversing with someone such as this.

For a minute I thought I was back at Audio Review- Cables Forum arguing with Mtrykraft and others. If I did not miss something, it took all of 10 years to have the first "Cable Pissing" thread here at the Shark. Kudos for it taking that long. Lets hope it is the last one for a while. If you don't agree with a thread, post your opinions why and move on.

This place needs to remain the best forum on the net!

Is this fun for y’all?

Originally Posted by crwilli

Is this fun for y’all?

Oh my Craig, what happened to you ? you moved South of the Mason Dixon line and now you 'talk' funny !!

I know for a fact cables make a difference.

I pulled my Wireworld Aurora 7 power cable for my amplifier out of the wall socket, and my system was totally dead silent. Even with my ears right up against the tweeters, not a sound.






There was a thunderstorm rolling in...

Originally Posted by stereogeek

What would you guys do if you liked how a component sounded in your system but measured poorly? What if you liked how a component sounded in your system but it got poor reviews?

I could careless what anyone thinks of my 2 channel system, if it fits in my systems and sounds great than that's all that matters

Originally Posted by stereogeek

What would you guys do if you liked how a component sounded in your system but measured poorly? What if you liked how a component sounded in your system but it got poor reviews?

Get your ears checked out ! Perhaps excessive wax build up ?