I call out Stealth Cables and Apology to Cable Deniers....

You watched my vid and you posted:

"Unfortunately your video is pretty much indistinguishable from countless personal testaments to pseudoscience. (Which doesn't entail that the cable IS pseudoscience and doesn't alter the sound: only that you provide nothing beyond mere anecdote...and no particular technical plausibility...for your claims). So, it will be only persuasive to folks who already believe the type of things you believe, for the same type of reasons."

Then I know all about you I need to.

You baited people with:

A call out to Stealth Cables and Apology to Cable Deniers everywhere.

If you are going to post that type of click-bait, you reap what you sow. (As you were called out by others on the thread for this).

And if there was any point at which you addressed the concerns of "cable deniers" or "apologized" (for what?) it was well buried in the long rambling video because I didn't catch it.

But even then, in response I did not dogmatically state your claims about the cables were wrong; I just pointed out that if you were hailing "cable deniers" to watch your video, you hardly provided anything of substance. (But it's clear now you are working on a click-bait format, and not really interested in engaging the issues).

Frankly, I don't owe you anything just because you decide to share your deafness with us. I gave your comments the level of attention they deserve - not very much.

Stay classy.
 
You baited people with:

A call out to Stealth Cables and Apology to Cable Deniers everywhere.

If you are going to post that type of click-bait, you reap what you sow. (As you were called out by others on the thread for this).

And if there was any point at which you addressed the concerns of "cable deniers" or "apologized" (for what?) it was well buried in the long rambling video because I didn't catch it.

But even then, in response I did not dogmatically state your claims about the cables were wrong; I just pointed out that if you were hailing "cable deniers" to watch your video, you hardly provided anything of substance. (But it's clear now you are working on a click-bait format, and not really interested in engaging the issues).



Stay classy.

I did apologize to cable deniers in the vid. If you watched it you'd know that. I apologized you were deaf. :)

And here is a tip for you - titles are meant to get people to watch.

BTW Mike posted to you above. Which one is yours?
 
I did apologize to cable deniers in the vid. If you watched it you'd know that. I apologized you were deaf. :)

So you want to play the jerk on your channel, and then complain when you get pushback?

I know this is apparently one business model on youtube but, it's still a bit weird.

BTW Mike posted to you above. Which one is yours?

Are you on a mission to exemplify every awkward cliche about audiophiles? Now it's the gear "pissing contest"?

FWIW, I've been an audiophile since the early 90s and have heard plenty of high end gear, and some of the most lauded systems. I've owned or had in my room tons of nice equipment over the years, from Von Schweikert to MBL speakers to various Audio Physic, top of the line Thiels, Waveform, many others and I'm currently using Joseph Audio Perspective Graphene 2s. I've had various high end cable brands through my system, including Nordost, Audience and others. I was just listening at my friend's place to 65K Estalon speakers using at least $50G of cabling (Nordost, Crystal cable etc). So, no, I'm not buying the cheapest stuff I can find at box stores. You'll have to retire that caricature for these purposes.

But that is neither here nor there. I don't think much rests on what gear you or I have owned, but rather on the plausibility of claims and the type of evidence. I'm certainly not going to call you deaf. You may well be a good listener and hearing the things you say you hear. You can always brush off whatever experience I may have - as an audiophile and the fact I make a living in sound, using my hearing acuity - and use the Golden Ears playbook of "Well then you are deaf not to hear things I can hear." It's a neatly unfalsifiable position, just like if I claim to hear things you can't hear.

Unfortunately that type of snobbishness is one reason why people have a poor impression of audiophiles.
 
So you want to play the jerk on your channel, and then complain when you get pushback?

I know this is apparently one business model on youtube but, it's still a bit weird.



Are you on a mission to exemplify every awkward cliche about audiophiles? Now it's the gear "pissing contest"?

FWIW, I've been an audiophile since the early 90s and have heard plenty of high end gear, and some of the most lauded systems. I've owned or had in my room tons of nice equipment over the years, from Von Schweikert to MBL speakers to various Audio Physic, top of the line Thiels, Waveform, many others and I'm currently using Joseph Audio Perspective Graphene 2s. I've had various high end cable brands through my system, including Nordost, Audience and others. I was just listening at my friend's place to 65K Estalon speakers using at least $50G of cabling (Nordost, Crystal cable etc).

But that is neither here nor there. I don't think much rests on what gear you or I have owned, but rather on the plausibility of claims and the type of evidence. I'm certainly not going to call you deaf. You may well be a good listener and hearing the things you say you hear. You can always brush off whatever experience I may have - as an audiophile and the fact I make a living in sound, using my hearing acuity - and use the Golden Ears playbook of "Well then you are deaf not to hear things I can hear." It's a neatly unfalsifiable position, just like if I claim to hear things you can't hear.

Unfortunately that type of snobbishness is one reason why people have a poor impression of audiophiles.

I bet it's the fireplace one. Is it the fireplace one? I bet it is...
 
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Systems of known cable deniers on Facebook. [emoji848]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Audiophiles defending their expensive cables (and other tweaks) try that one all the time.

"Oh, you expressed some skepticism about a cable? Your system must suuuuuck. Where do you shop? Radio shack?"

Then when I tell them the equipment I own (and have owned, and have experience with)...it's silence and evasion...on to some other silly insult.
(see: MichaelsMinute for example).

Doesn't work very well when people try this move on Amir either (Amir's system):

index.php
 
Audiophiles defending their expensive cables (and other tweaks) try that one all the time.

"Oh, you expressed some skepticism about a cable? Your system must suuuuuck. Where do you shop? Radio shack?"

Then when I tell them the equipment I own (and have owned)...it's silence and evasion...on to some other silly insult.
(see: MichaelsMinute for example).

Doesn't work very well when people try this move on Amir either (Amir's system):

index.php

Let’s see your system. If you don’t think cables make a difference, awesome! Don’t spend your money on them. Buy lamp cord from Home Depot. Save the money.

But those who have tried multiple cables know they make a huge difference. So why does that bother you? If you think it’s all nonsense, cool, awesome, save your money. Others who’ve tried multiple cables love what they hear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Let’s see your system.

I have no problem posting photos of my system if someone is actually interested, rather than just looking for a "gotcha."

So first: What will posting my system tell you? If it is sufficiently high end, won't you just move to "well then his hearing must be the problem?"

That's pretty much how it goes every time I post my system. Doesn't get us anywhere.

If you don’t think cables make a difference, awesome! Don’t spend your money on them. Buy lamp cord from Home Depot. Save the money.

I'm open to anything making a difference. But when the claims are controversial among people with relevant expertise, I prefer stronger evidence than anecdotes. I use Belden 10awg speaker cable, but I've used any number of "high end" speaker cables previously (usually cast offs from audiophiles more in to cables, and they upgraded. I've also used all sorts of interconnects in my system, as I mentioned Nordost, Audience, AudioQuest and others. Given or loaned to me when I need more cables. I've also heard my speakers (which I sold to a reviewer friend) hooked up to some of the top Nordost, Crystal cable and others.

But those who have tried multiple cables know they make a huge difference. So why does that bother you?

It doesn't "bother" me so much as it's part of our hobby to be interested in gear and how or whether it works. Why does it bother you if someone is a cable skeptic? (Your previous post suggests it does).

Hashing out claims from manufacturers, exchanging notes and opinions on gear is part of why people hang out on enthusiast forums. I have no problem with people having different opinions nor I think should you. But expressing reasons for skepticism about some other audiophiles claim shouldn't be taken as some personal affront.

And, remember, I'm not just jumping in to some thread in which people were happily discussing their new cables. It was a deliberate "call out" vid/thread for "cable deniers" where (it turns out) the OP calls skeptics "deaf." I'm not a "denier" but I know that cable fans love to pigeon hole any level of skepticism in to the "denier" category, so the OP was clearly calling out people with alternative opinions.

I mean...perhaps some prefer an echo-chamber. I don't. I like an exchange of views (when people are mature enough to handle that, which the OP clearly is not).
 
I have no problem posting photos of my system if someone is actually interested, rather than just looking for a "gotcha."

So first: What will posting my system tell you? If it is sufficiently high end, won't you just move to "well then his hearing must be the problem?"

That's pretty much how it goes every time I post my system. Doesn't get us anywhere.



I'm open to anything making a difference. But when the claims are controversial among people with relevant expertise, I prefer stronger evidence than anecdotes. I use Belden 10awg speaker cable, but I've used any number of "high end" speaker cables previously (usually cast offs from audiophiles more in to cables, and they upgraded. I've also used all sorts of interconnects in my system, as I mentioned Nordost, Audience, AudioQuest and others. Given or loaned to me when I need more cables. I've also heard my speakers (which I sold to a reviewer friend) hooked up to some of the top Nordost, Crystal cable and others.



It doesn't "bother" me so much as it's part of our hobby to be interested in gear and how or whether it works. Why does it bother you if someone is a cable skeptic? (Your previous post suggests it does).

Hashing out claims from manufacturers, exchanging notes and opinions on gear is part of why people hang out on enthusiast forums. I have no problem with people having different opinions nor I think should you. But expressing reasons for skepticism about some other audiophiles claim shouldn't be taken as some personal affront.

And, remember, I'm not just jumping in to some thread in which people were happily discussing their new cables. It was a deliberate "call out" vid/thread for "cable deniers" where (it turns out) the OP calls skeptics "deaf." I'm not a "denier" but I know that cable fans love to pigeon hole any level of skepticism in to the "denier" category, so the OP was clearly calling out people with alternative opinions.

I mean...perhaps some prefer an echo-chamber. I don't. I like an exchange of views (when people are mature enough to handle that, which the OP clearly is not).

If your system is not sufficiently resolving, like the ones I’ve shown, then cables don’t matter and we agree! But on the flip side, resolving high end systems have no problem showing the differences between cables. If they didn’t, the cable industry would not exist. We would all use lamp cord.

Similarly, if you’re driving a 4 cylinder 20 year old sedan, putting 93 octane in the tank won’t make a difference. But try using 87 octane with a high end performance car and find out.

You’re not a believer in cables. We get it. Cool. Save your money and buy more music.

But let me leave you with a little story. When I was deciding on cables for my own system, I spent 30 days trying a wide variety of cables. I had a preset playlist and kept the volume the same. I started with the IC’s between the DAC and preamp. I went through a wide variety and they all exhibited various sonic benefits, mostly due to their capacitance, high, low, medium, whatever. High capacitance cables smoother on top, plumper on the bottom end. Low capacitance cables with more air and detail. But when I got to the Odin 2, I could hear this person breathing, I could hear them swallow on the recording, I literally jumped out of my chair thinking someone was in the room! That’s how resolving this cable is. I went back to others to make sure I didn’t miss it. Nope, the Odin 2 brought it right to the forefront. It “dug” deeper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
If your system is not sufficiently resolving, like the ones I’ve shown, then cables don’t matter and we agree!

Like many audiophiles I've had various systems. Right now I have my Joseph Audio Perspective graphene 2 speakers running - a speaker that John Atkinson declared "hi-res" in resolving subtle differences, Fremer raved about the Pulsar version, and Joseph audio regularly gets among "best of show" notices at audio shows. My preamps are the CJ Premier 16LS2, and also the ultra-low distortion Benchmark LA4, among the lowest distortion consumer preamps available. My amps are the CJ Premier 12 monoblocks, which I've compared to various amps (e.g. I've had a Bryston 4B3 for a while, and other amps, tube and solid state) and it holds up very well. Source is a Benchmark DAC2L - again, premier in low distortion. Turntable is a Transrotor Fat Bob S/Acoustic Solid Arm/Benz Micro Ebony L cartridge.

I'm quite familiar with very high end systems and mine holds up well (I've also heard my speakers on Nordost cabling/top of the line SimAudio amplification...and I'm getting plenty of detail in my set up, even more than I've heard at my dealer because I have a very good room, acoustically).

The thing is, though, this is all a red herring. Because it ISN'T a fact that audiophiles claim "you have to have a hi-res system to hear cable differences." Audiophiles with all ranges of systems, from very modest to expensive, claim to hear differences with cables!
Go to Amazon and even very cheap cables (by high end standards) used with modest gear get rave reviews for "changing the sound of my system."

This means either:

1. It's just false that you need a Super High Res system to hear cable differences, as they can make a difference on modest systems (making your request a red herring).

or:

2. The many audiophiles reporting differences with cheaper cables/systems are imaging the differences. Which would be a lesson about how audiophiles are prone to hearing differences that don't exist.

Gotta be one or the other. :-)



But on the flip side, resolving high end systems have no problem showing the differences between cables. If they didn’t, the cable industry would not exist.

Forgive me, that don't you see a problem with that reasoning? "If astrology weren't true, astrologers and horoscopes wouldn't exist!" "If psychics weren't real, that huge psychic reading industry wouldn't exist" "If X religion weren't true, then all those believers wouldn't exist...."

People really can fool themselves. Even many, many people. It's human nature, how our brain works naturally.


But let me leave you with a little story. When I was deciding on cables for my own system, I spent 30 days trying a wide variety of cables. I had a preset playlist and kept the volume the same. I started with the IC’s between the DAC and preamp. I went through a wide variety and they all exhibited various sonic benefits, mostly due to their capacitance, high, low, medium, whatever. High capacitance cables smoother on top, plumper on the bottom end. Low capacitance cables with more air and detail. But when I got to the Odin 2, I could hear this person breathing, I could hear them swallow on the recording, I literally jumped out of my chair thinking someone was in the room! That’s how resolving this cable is. I went back to others to make sure I didn’t miss it. Nope, the Odin 2 brought it right to the forefront. It “dug” deeper.

Ok, thanks for the story. But...

1. If I tell you stories about people NOT hearing differences with those type of cables (and in fact, I heard my speakers with near top of the line Nordost cabling, and I got all the detail I heard there with the modest pro-grade cables I used at home)....you won't take that as any evidence that cables don't really make a difference, right? Such is the power (or lack) of anecdotes in settling these issues.

2. Do you think they used Nordost Odin 2 cabling when making that recording you reference? (Or most of the recordings you listen to?). I doubt it, right? In all likelihood, like most studios, they used standard pro cables (e.g. Canare, Belden, Mogami, or others depending on age of the recording). Plus the cabling in many such set ups, strewn about the floor, would leave the cable-riser crowd with nightmares. And yet, those meager cables were sufficient to capture and transmit...often through reams of cables.... the very details that took your breath away. Right? Doesn't that tell you something?

Cheers.
 
Like many audiophiles I've had various systems. Right now I have my Joseph Audio Perspective graphene 2 speakers running - a speaker that John Atkinson declared "hi-res" in resolving subtle differences, Fremer raved about the Pulsar version, and Joseph audio regularly gets among "best of show" notices at audio shows. My preamps are the CJ Premier 16LS2, and also the ultra-low distortion Benchmark LA4, among the lowest distortion consumer preamps available. My amps are the CJ Premier 12 monoblocks, which I've compared to various amps (e.g. I've had a Bryston 4B3 for a while, and other amps, tube and solid state) and it holds up very well. Source is a Benchmark DAC2L - again, premier in low distortion. Turntable is a Transrotor Fat Bob S/Acoustic Solid Arm/Benz Micro Ebony L cartridge.

I'm quite familiar with very high end systems and mine holds up well (I've also heard my speakers on Nordost cabling/top of the line SimAudio amplification...and I'm getting plenty of detail in my set up, even more than I've heard at my dealer because I have a very good room, acoustically).

The thing is, though, this is all a red herring. Because it ISN'T a fact that audiophiles claim "you have to have a hi-res system to hear cable differences." Audiophiles with all ranges of systems, from very modest to expensive, claim to hear differences with cables!
Go to Amazon and even very cheap cables (by high end standards) used with modest gear get rave reviews for "changing the sound of my system."

This means either:

1. It's just false that you need a Super High Res system to hear cable differences, as they can make a difference on modest systems (making your request a red herring).

or:

2. The many audiophiles reporting differences with cheaper cables/systems are imaging the differences. Which would be a lesson about how audiophiles are prone to hearing differences that don't exist.

Gotta be one or the other. :-)





Forgive me, that don't you see a problem with that reasoning? "If astrology weren't true, astrologers and horoscopes wouldn't exist!" "If psychics weren't real, that huge psychic reading industry wouldn't exist" "If X religion weren't true, then all those believers wouldn't exist...."

People really can fool themselves. Even many, many people. It's human nature, how our brain works naturally.




Ok, thanks for the story. But...

1. If I tell you stories about people NOT hearing differences with those type of cables (and in fact, I heard my speakers with near top of the line Nordost cabling, and I got all the detail I heard there with the modest pro-grade cables I used at home)....you won't take that as any evidence that cables don't really make a difference, right? Such is the power (or lack) of anecdotes in settling these issues.

2. Do you think they used Nordost Odin 2 cabling when making that recording you reference? (Or most of the recordings you listen to?). I doubt it, right? In all likelihood, like most studios, they used standard pro cables (e.g. Canare, Belden, Mogami, or others depending on age of the recording). Plus the cabling in many such set ups, strewn about the floor, would leave the cable-riser crowd with nightmares. And yet, those meager cables were sufficient to capture and transmit...often through reams of cables.... the very details that took your breath away. Right? Doesn't that tell you something?

Cheers.

Good luck Matt.


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That's funny. LOL

Just to be fair, I just watched the video. I like the enthusiasm and verbal descriptions but......With all the recording gear you have and the degree of change you heard, it should be easily demonstrable even in a You Tube video. A demo of a cable swap and sound change would be 100 times more convincing. They did it with the Iso Acoustic footers on Focal speakers in a YT video so anyone should be able to hear the dramatic changes you heard as long as they have most of their hearing intact.
 
Just to be fair, I just watched the video. I like the enthusiasm and verbal descriptions but......With all the recording gear you have and the degree of change you heard, it should be easily demonstrable even in a You Tube video. A demo of a cable swap and sound change would be 100 times more convincing. They did it with the Iso Acoustic footers on Focal speakers in a YT video so anyone should be able to hear the dramatic changes you heard as long as they have most of their hearing intact.

Hey Brian - for sure and I don't disagree - it's a fair comment you made. Each video I makes takes between 30-40 hours to make in the current form. I still have other things to so in life including a job. I don't have the bandwidth as a 1 man operation to add additional HOURS of trying to record with a mic, capture the sound correctly, and then editing. I am already backed up by something like 14 more reviews that are waiting for me to get out. AND that's not even counting the 23 videos I have to make for another channel regarding CINE.

It simply becomes a matter of there are a lot of things I'd like to do in the vids, but just don't have the time.

My vids are designed as I've been saying as an audio journey - covering my experiences and thoughts. There are other channels and websites that do a great job with the recordings that people can go to if they'd like.

And finally I do believe anyone who is serious about any of the gear I talk about is going to demo it in their home, their system and to their ears to see if it works for them and not rely on Youtube as a source.

I appreciate your thoughts as aways and you watching the vid!
 
Just to be fair, I just watched the video. I like the enthusiasm and verbal descriptions but......With all the recording gear you have and the degree of change you heard, it should be easily demonstrable even in a You Tube video. A demo of a cable swap and sound change would be 100 times more convincing. They did it with the Iso Acoustic footers on Focal speakers in a YT video so anyone should be able to hear the dramatic changes you heard as long as they have most of their hearing intact.

It should also be demonstrable (at least by any cable company) with measurements, a null test, or by any individual simply being able to reliably tell the cables apart without peeking.

Interesting that you virtually never get such evidence. :-)

That's the type of evidence I'm waiting for. "But why not just use your ears?" Because, yes I use my ears all day long, in my work, in my audio hobby. But when it comes to really caring about being sure, especially in regard to technically controversial claims, then I'd want to see more rigorous evidence. Having done blind tests, I've learned how easy it is to Absolutely Hear Differences...under sighted conditions....that weren't there (once I didn't know which I was listening to).

Most audiophiles haven't tested themselves in this way, haven't experienced differences you were *sure* where there, vanishing once suitable controls were put in place. So, most go on believing their perception is always right, or the Gold Standard for evaluating all audio claims. You can do that, when you don't really put your beliefs to more rigorous testing. And...why would you? If you stay resolutely in the Golden Ear camp you always have your trump card, even over people with more expertise. "Ok Mr. Expert, you may have all your 'knowledge' of the subject and all your 'instruments' saying there's no signal difference between A and B, but I can trump that! My Ears Tell Me Otherwise! So I'm right; you're wrong!"

Some don't want to have that position become vulnerable.

The cable market will always be able to rely on "those who use only their ears" to vet their claims. Which is why it's a good thing to have some folks out there with technical skill and equipment to test manufacturer claims. Some care to take in this information, some don't, which is fine. It's just a fun hobby for most of us.

Cheerio.
 
Hey Brian - for sure and I don't disagree - it's a fair comment you made. Each video I makes takes between 30-40 hours to make in the current form. I still have other things to so in life including a job. I don't have the bandwidth as a 1 man operation to add additional HOURS of trying to record with a mic, capture the sound correctly, and then editing. I am already backed up by something like 14 more reviews that are waiting for me to get out. AND that's not even counting the 23 videos I have to make for another channel regarding CINE.

It simply becomes a matter of there are a lot of things I'd like to do in the vids, but just don't have the time.

My vids are designed as I've been saying as an audio journey - covering my experiences and thoughts. There are other channels and websites that do a great job with the recordings that people can go to if they'd like.

And finally I do believe anyone who is serious about any of the gear I talk about is going to demo it in their home, their system and to their ears to see if it works for them and not rely on Youtube as a source.

I appreciate your thoughts as aways and you watching the vid!

I also wanted to add that I am not a retail store - so I am not trying to sell anything.

I am not paid to do this so I am not here to convince anyone of anything.

And let's be honest, the deaf cable deniers aren't even capable / willing to believe their own ears on a system in front of them, so there is nothing they would ever believe on Youtube. So any argument they claim otherwise we all know is not true.

Literally God himself could come down and confirm cables make a difference - like everyone with a resolving (note NOT expensive) system will attest to and they still wouldn't believe.

I make the videos for me and to have fun doing it. Not to try and convince anyone of anything (not aimed at you Bryan).
 
The cable market will always be able to rely on "those who use only their ears" to vet their claims. Which is why it's a good thing to have some folks out there with technical skill and equipment to test manufacturer claims. Some care to take in this information, some don't, which is fine. It's just a fun hobby for most of us.

Cheerio.

So in other words, you would buy something because it measures fantastic whether you can hear a difference or not? And if you can hear the difference, along with the measurements than others can hear differences also.

Cheers
 
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