Thread: High end audio predictions and wish lists for 2021

We are going to see more affordable gear from Boulder, Audio Research, Meitner and others.

I’m certain Magico will have a surprise or two in store for us. They never rest on their laurels. I’m certain other world class brands like Wilson will be right there with them.

When network streaming DAC’s were starting out, we had Linn, then along came Lumin. Today, the field is completely packed with network streaming products from Ayre, Esoteric, MSB, Aurender, Meitner, Naim, dCS and dozens and dozens and dozens of others. We are even seeing network streaming DAC’s being incorporated into many integrated amps like NAIM Uniti, Boulder, SimAudio (Moon), etc.

AQwill launch a new line of IC’s and digital cables to compliment the existing power cable/speaker cable line up.

I have a hunch (just a crazy hunch) we might actually see a floor stander speaker from Harbeth??? Maybe?? Alan Shaw keeps hinting at something big coming on FB.

Probably a new product or two from VAC to fill out the middle section of their lineup.

We’ve already seen the existing new N30 from Aurender (pics posted online), so hopefully that comes out soon.

I would love to see Esoteric K-05XD and K-07XD!

Streaming and digital will continue to dominate 95% of my calls and conversations with customers!

Powered speakers are a tough tough sell, so not sure about that one.

We will continue to see companies like Taiko push the limits on digital with new upgrades for the Extreme and the rumored network switch.

I’m wondering when we will see the replacement for the current B&W 8 series D3? A D4 perhaps in 2021?

Shunyata I bet will continue to dig deeper into what is possible in the world of power and cabling. Maybe some Omega IC’s and Speaker Cables perhaps?

Trade shows will start to come back LATER in 2021 or may even wait until 2022.

Joe will continue to be the amp man, Coo Coo Ka Choo!

Hahahaha!

If you only knew.

My hope is that the hi end manufacturer's recognize that their current pricing scheme is unsustainable (wealthy old white dudes only live so long) and will provide product that will address this issue (allowing more market saturation to budget minded music lovers) without substantially sacrificing sonic performance.

Originally Posted by thedudeabides

My hope is that the hi end manufacturer's recognize that their current pricing scheme is unsustainable (wealthy old white dudes only live so long) and will provide product that will address this issue (allowing more market saturation to budget minded music lovers) without substantially sacrificing sonic performance.

Dare to dream!

Ken

There are many of them already here.

My wish is that my new Fynes get here before 2021

Originally Posted by thedudeabides

My hope is that the hi end manufacturer's recognize that their current pricing scheme is unsustainable (wealthy old white dudes only live so long) and will provide product that will address this issue (allowing more market saturation to budget minded music lovers) without substantially sacrificing sonic performance.

Luxman?

i wish for...

...more DACs with SFP / fiber ethernet input -- à-la lumin x1

Originally Posted by mdp632

Maybe the Magico Q1 successor will finally arrive in 2021? The M1? Will it be a floor stander or a stand mount?

If Shunyata debuts a flagship line of Omega Speaker cables and Interconnects in 2021. We can guess that the major difference will be the QRBB module over the Sigma line.

If so, very interesting to read how that would affect sound quality. Almost like a "Networked" or MIT speaker interface. But, instead of using capacitors to store and release energy, it would use the QRBB device.

Does anyone predict that we will see more audio brands go direct in 2021? Ala PS Audio

PS who? No, in fact, I think PS Audio will be forced to reintroduce a dealer network. It was a terrible idea and I think they know it. Sub-$1000 audio gizmos can be sold direct. Sure. But if the only selling direct model was a “thing”, why isn’t Sony, LG, JVC and others doing it now? What about McIntosh too? PSA’s decision was a lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face. They had some bad actors, they knew who they were, but they chose not to do anything about it at any time for any reason. In fact, they often made it worse by offering those bad actors better pricing if they bought 5 products instead of 1. Things spiraled out of control and they only have themselves to blame. Perhaps their only option was to pull the plug and let the dirty water drain out with the clean water.

Originally Posted by thedudeabides

My hope is that the hi end manufacturer's recognize that their current pricing scheme is unsustainable (wealthy old white dudes only live so long) and will provide product that will address this issue (allowing more market saturation to budget minded music lovers) without substantially sacrificing sonic performance.

People have been saying this for over 50 years. And you are totally wrong with your statement that the current pricing scheme is for "wealthy old white dudes." Last I knew, wealthy Asian people are driving the market for the very high end. As for "budget minded music lovers," there are already a plethora of products available in every price range.

There are large numbers of (now) 40-50 somethings with money still to burn from the first dot.com boom. As they age and spend more time at home and with families I suspect at least some of them will turn to home theater and from there to high-end audio. Even today, despite the pandemic, there are successful start-ups and even established companies now going public (AirBnB?) with many employees paid in part with stock and stock options who are going to have lots more disposable income.

My personal audio wish list for 2021 is likely to be (starting to) sort out the future of my digital listening pathway. Although I won't be embracing streaming in any significant way, current trends suggest that I should allow for it. Even without that, working on a server/DAC solution could be a bit of a challenge with regard to digital dingleberries (to use Mark P's favorite pejorative). Happily hardware is pretty well set for awhile

Originally Posted by rbbert

My personal audio wish list for 2021 is likely to be (starting to) sort out the future of my digital listening pathway. Although I won't be embracing streaming in any significant way, current trends suggest that I should allow for it. Even without that, working on a server/DAC solution could be a bit of a challenge with regard to digital dingleberries (to use Mark P's favorite pejorative). Happily hardware is pretty well set for awhile

More ""digital dingleberries " , but with them come real measurements that support the claims

Originally Posted by CPP

More ""digital dingleberries " , but with them come real measurements that support the claims

NOT

Originally Posted by mep

People have been saying this for over 50 years. And you are totally wrong with your statement that the current pricing scheme is for "wealthy old white dudes." Last I knew, wealthy Asian people are driving the market for the very high end. As for "budget minded music lovers," there are already a plethora of products available in every price range.

Certainly some of the market is for the wealthy old white dudes and / or wealthy old asian dudes. Thank you for your rude, pretentious response. Appears you have an anger issue.

Originally Posted by thedudeabides

Certainly some of the market is for the wealthy old white dudes and / or wealthy old asian dudes. Thank you for your rude, pretentious response. Appears you have an anger issue.

Your response here is rude, inaccurate (re: the anger issue), and pretentious, and even though it's not directed at me it is irritating. I even "liked" your earlier post

Originally Posted by elliotg

There is going to be a show in the Seattle ( hopefully July/August 2021)

Registrations are now open for this show. I'm looking forward to it if it happens.

Originally Posted by rbbert

Your response here is rude, inaccurate (re: the anger issue), and pretentious, and even though it's not directed at me it is irritating. I even "liked" your earlier post

agreed!

Originally Posted by thedudeabides

Certainly some of the market is for the wealthy old white dudes and / or wealthy old asian dudes. Thank you for your rude, pretentious response. Appears you have an anger issue.

You clearly stated the current pricing scheme is for wealthy old white dudes which is clearly wrong. Calling my attempt to enlighten you “rude and pretentious” is way over the top and ridiculous. As for anger issues, you need to look in the mirror.

Oh well. So we disagree. It would have been nice if you were able to respond to my initial post, with which you obviously disagree, in a civil, respectful, "non irritated" manner. You did not.

Anger is a very self-destructive emotion and I avoid it at all costs.

Originally Posted by apdoc2004

I hope that what you are saying comes true as they get older but so far the demographic you are talking about mostly go for exotic cars and fancy real estate. There is a reason why there is not much of a high end audio scene in the Greater Seattle area.
Anshul

totally disagree.

lot's of serious high end audiophiles in Seattle, and for that matter from Portland to Vancouver B.C. is a strong region for HiFi. huge DIY scene, and lots of manufacturers too.

no doubt audiophiles are always a small count anywhere. but our high levels of education, strong tech economy, hifi friendly weather, and proximity to the Pacific Rim makes us a fertile ground. the age thing is real....i agree; but if you expand the definition of audiophile to include serious Headphone fanatics, then there are lot's of those. and at some point many of those graduate to 2-channel speaker listening as their lives evolve.

i think COVID has also added to the audiophile register.....as it fits the situation very well.

feel free to PM me and we can get together when you feel safe to do so.

this year it's been trampled down by COVID-19; but lots of action in Seattle and an active local club too.

Originally Posted by apdoc2004

Mike,
Thank you for the offer. You are certainly the exception to what I said! You are probably in the top 10 people when it comes to being an audiophile perfectionist.
I guess my comment was based upon my several contacts/friends who work in the IT industry and have no interest in high end audio. Also, I feel that given the affluent population that we have in this area, we should be served by many more audio dealers representing a wider variety of audio brands -- I am tired of the same brands that you find at Definitive audio. As an example, we do not have a single Magico dealer in the Greater Seattle area! I could say the same for several other top notch speaker and amplifier brands. Some of the smaller local dealers have given me the same feedback that they find it difficult to sell even their mid tier stuff to people working the in the tech industry. Your perspective might be different.
Anshul

Anshul, thank you for the kind comment.

i respect your comments; but i think your conclusions as to what constitutes a healthy high end audio community are flawed. agree that we have a small number of close in brick and mortar high end audio stores. but there are any number of small home entertainment install companies servicing the area, and some quality brick and mortar hifi dealers in the wider area. and in Portland and Vancouver there are more than Seattle. and high end gear acquisition is more without borders and an on line and national process.

i'd say the costs of doing business as a high end dealer in the State of Washington are considerable. in addition to a 10% sales tax (zero in Portland), we have something called a B & O tax (business and occupation tax) which is a .005 tax on gross receipts that cannot be passed on to a consumer (i manage a car dealership and this line item is about $800k a year for us). and that tax is paid whether you make a dime or lose a million. so any business with high gross receipts and small margins is going to get screwed. combine that with very high wages and high rent and it's a tough deal for a high end dealer and anyone marginal will not stick around long.

Definitive Audio's business model is much about commercial automation and insurance work as it is about home audio. so they have some economies of scale helping. i was friends with their former owners for years. it's why their product lines are limited to where their margins are protected. turning dollars is not the formula for success.

i can agree with you about things missing (or lacking 'at-hand' variety), but still see the area as alive with high end audio activities. i'm not much for brick and mortar brands for the last 20 years.

there is a Magico dealer in both Portland and Vancouver.

of course; we could ask Mike to open 'Suncoast Audio--Seattle Branch'.

plenty of money and opportunities, but also some built in high expenses.

I only wish we had the opportunities and availability to shop any kind of good audio, let alone Hi-End here on the Central Coast of California. There are no stores what so ever to shop even decent audio. You have to travel to the LA area or the SF area to find any real B+M stores. Consider yourself lucky in Seattle.

We do have a fairly active audio club which is mostly mid-fi; I think we have about 100 members. Several DIY's and the like. A few hi-end systems and a couple very hi-end. If there were better access to equipment then we might have a higher level of gear in the club. It is extremely difficult to shop hi-end gear from here.

Our club does include a writer for Stereophile and an audio manufacture. There used to be more hi-tech in this area then there is now.

The thing is the Central Coast has some serious wealth, renowned retirement communities, wineries, famous beaches, etc., and probably could support an exceptional B+M store if one would move in (hint, Mr. Mike), say San Luis Obispo or south a bit, like Pismo Beach, etc. South a little puts you in direct range of Santa Barbara, Santa Ynez, Solvang, etc.; much closer for them then going to LA. You are talking some serious bucks. For example, Santa Barbara is about an hour from my house.

Another funny thing about this area is there are at least two or three very nice long standing music stores who have very good selections of both new and used vinyl and CDs.

Originally Posted by apdoc2004

Mike,
Appreciate your response.
Agree with Mike opening an outpost of Suncoast audio west coast — that would be awesome.

Would have to be further south though. You guys already have a good selection in the Northwest .

Originally Posted by elliotg

BTW id Mike wants to open a west coast store I would love to discuss our products and wish him the best luck

Mike is maxed out. My wife has a real job working 12 hour shifts as a specialist RN, an RT, COPDe and a bunch of other medical stuff I haven’t a clue much about. I have 2 kids, 2 dogs, 2 cats to care for, 3 adult old fart hockey leagues I play in, coaching kids hockey Friday nights and Sunday mornings, rental properties to manage, my daughter is in pre-vet, so that means early 6am mornings dropping her off at the farm and FFA (Future Farmers of America) meetings and oh yeah, Suncoast Audio, The Florida Audio Expo, Audioshark, etc.



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Originally Posted by Mike

Mike is maxed out. My wife has a real job working 12 hour shifts as a specialist RN, an RT, COPDe and a bunch of other medical stuff I haven’t a clue much about. I have 2 kids, 2 dogs, 2 cats to care for, 3 adult old fart hockey leagues I play in, coaching kids hockey Friday nights and Sunday mornings, rental properties to manage, my daughter is in pre-vet, so that means early 6am mornings dropping her off at the farm and FFA (Future Farmers of America) meetings and oh yeah, Suncoast Audio, The Florida Audio Expo, Audioshark, etc.

And you don't have any more time for us ...

Dam Mike, you are a busy guy ... I thought I got tired after work, and you are doing several jobs. Mikey needs some relaxation time .

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I only wish we had the opportunities and availability to shop any kind of good audio, let alone Hi-End here on the Central Coast of California. There are no stores what so ever to shop even decent audio. You have to travel to the LA area or the SF area to find any real B+M stores. Consider yourself lucky in Seattle.

Santa Barbara has Mission Audio Video, which has a reasonable selection of high end brands

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

And you don't have any more time for us ...

Dam Mike, you are a busy guy ... I thought I got tired after work, and you are doing several jobs. Mikey needs some relaxation time .

Was going to take next week off, but have demos Monday and Tuesday!

My hockey is relaxing! Took this picture Tuesday night. This is the best of my three teams. Still old farts! LOL.




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I was at one of the 3 remaining mom and pop audio stores here in town last week and gear was flying out of the store. Since COVID hit their sales have skyrocketed. They are selling a lot of Anthem AVR'S and 2 ch all in one int. amps with streamers and dac's built in.

I suspect that all in one integrated amps are going to be where it's at for most younger people. Even my 29 yo son is selling off his separates and going with an all in one Cary integrated. With companies like Primare with their Prisma all in one integrateds and NAD with their upgradeable DAC modules, it makes it very appealing.

And lets not forget about Schiit Audio with their very good sounding budget gear that is introducing good sounding gear to a whole generation of younger people.

Originally Posted by rbbert

Santa Barbara has Mission Audio Video, which has a reasonable selection of high end brands

I have been there a couple times. The have virtually nothing in stock, they have a single "kid" selling audio who is VERY opinionated and has little actual knowledge. He completed BS's answers, etc. Also, even before covid their hours where pretty much non-existent, or inconsistent at least. Twice I drove down to find they decided to not open that day. And what they have in the store was rather sparse... so yea, I don't consider Mission an audio store. It appears their only real interest is in installing home theater systems, not selling audio.

Which is really pitiful considering that they are located in the middle of Santa Barbara.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I have been there a couple times. The have virtually nothing in stock, they have a single "kid" selling audio who is VERY opinionated and has little actual knowledge. He completed BS's answers, etc. Also, even before covid their hours where pretty much non-existent, or inconsistent at least. Twice I drove down to find they decided to not open that day. And what they have in the store was rather sparse... so yea, I don't consider Mission an audio store. It appears their only real interest is in installing home theater systems, not selling audio.

Which is really pitiful considering that they are located in the middle of Santa Barbara.

And this would be one of the problems for me with having more than one location.

Originally Posted by Mike

And this would be one of the problems for me with having more than one location.

Hmmm... I thought you could be in two places at once. You're saying this in not true. Say it ain't so Mike.

Mike, cloning technology has come a long way.

Originally Posted by Mechnutt

Mike, cloning technology has come a long way.

Exactly, although I hear one always comes out evil. The nice one comes to California and the evil one stays in Florida!

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Exactly, although I hear one always comes out evil. The nice one comes to California and the evil one stays in Florida!

Come down after the pandemic to Ventura County and further south to the San Fernando Valley (without getting into true LA) and you can visit a few dealers and nice systems with me. I’m still trying to get a demo at JBL Northridge itself.

Hmmm, hockey in Florida, who would have thought? And I said the same thing to one of my Tampa friends when the Lightning won the cup in 2004 2020!

Nice pic, Mike!

Originally Posted by Frazeur1

Hmmm, hockey in Florida, who would have thought? And I said the same thing to one of my Tampa friends when the Lightning won the cup in 2004 2020!

Nice pic, Mike!

I was thinking the same thing.... where in the heck is Florida, Canada... maybe in Alberta .... (ps I grew up on skies so I say this tongue in cheek like Baseball in Montreal and Toronto ).

True, or baseball in Iceland....

LOL! I didn't know there is baseball in Iceland.

Randy, I was totally teasing on that one, but hey, one never knows! Maybe I should Google that and find out, haha!

I guess with stadiums being built with roofs etc., I suppose anything can be played anywhere!

My predictions for 2021:
- we will have a Munich Hi-End this year, either May or September
- people will care less about hi-end audio in 2021, after sitting at home for a year watching Covid numbers (once vaccinations will start to have impact)
- we will see less unobtainium, bat-shit crazy hi-end pricing, and toasted/ frosted/ fried products being perceived as the bees-knees in 2021 vs. simply solid engineering


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