Heads-up, changes en route: Adding AudioNet’s engineering-marvel Humboldt to the system

**Kuoppis** · April 22, 2021, 06:47 PM

Schematic from Audionet product development...

Work in progress... Believe this is the Stern though, as Humboldt’s capacitor bank is more heavily loaded.

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**Kuoppis** · April 22, 2021, 07:03 PM

This is at least how the finalized Humboldt looks from the inside.

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**XV-1** · April 22, 2021, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

This is at least how the finalized Humboldt looks from the inside.

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Is that a real phono input, or just in name?

**kzhtoo** · April 22, 2021, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Schematic from Audionet product development...

That’s just a simple BJT amplifier schematic with small signal analysis and gm calculation. Any first year modern electrical engineering student can do it.

Anyhow, Humboldt looks great. Congrats!!!

**Kuoppis** · April 23, 2021, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by XV-1

Is that a real phono input, or just in name?

The Humboldt does not have an inbuilt phono pre, but one of the inputs can be configured for connecting one. And you can name any inputs individually to phono, DAC, or Sponge Bob for that matter, if you like.

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**Kuoppis** · April 23, 2021, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

That’s just a simple BJT amplifier schematic with small signal analysis and gm calculation. Any first year modern electrical engineering student can do it.

Anyhow, Humboldt looks great. Congrats!!!

Perhaps you could join the R&D team...

Not sure what they were doing, perhaps posing for a journalist.

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**kzhtoo** · April 23, 2021, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Perhaps you could join the R&D team...

Not sure what they were doing, perhaps posing for a journalist.

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Then, the next humboldt mk2 will catch fire.

Yeah, probably for publicity. After all, there aren’t many who can read it. And the ones who can, half of them forget it. The corporate ladder has a way of making you forget things.

**Kuoppis** · April 23, 2021, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

Then, the next humboldt mk2 will catch fire.

Probably so...

I think they’re probably doing just fine without without that additional skillset.

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**Drummer62** · April 23, 2021, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by XV-1

Is that a real phono input, or just in name?

It's just the name. My input n.5 is named "Drums" because I connected my Roland E-Drumset

1 - Digital
2 - Analogue
3 - HT
4 - Tape
5 - Drums

**AJR** · April 23, 2021, 12:01 PM

Kuoppis - just catching up on this. Very exciting! Looking forward to reading about your impressions.

**Kuoppis** · April 23, 2021, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by AJR

Kuoppis - just catching up on this. Very exciting! Looking forward to reading about your impressions.

Thanks Andrew, very kind. Appreciate it.

I’m also excited. This is probably one of the world’s highest spec’d integrated amps at the moment. The pedigree is immaculate (Scientist Series Stern and Humboldt), and one rave review is chasing another. I would be surprised if it wouldn’t be great in my system as well

.

I just read the TAS review of the excellent Goldmund Telos 590 Nextgen II. It has a damping factor of 600 at 1kHz. Just to compare, the Humboldt has 1.800 at 10 kHz (10.000 at 100 Hz). That’s threefold at tenfold frequency, meaning it’s even higher at 1 kHz.

I’ll report back.

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**imprezap2** · April 24, 2021, 04:00 AM

High damping factor does not have to be a good thing, as it normaly means that there is more negative feedback.
(not saying that this is the case with Audionet amps)

**Kuoppis** · April 24, 2021, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by imprezap2

High damping factor does not have to be a good thing, as it normaly means that there is more negative feedback.
(not saying that this is the case with Audionet amps)

Yes, you are absolutely right. But neither damping factor nor negative feedback are a good or bad thing per se. It depends on the implementation. Damping factor is just an indicator for the amp’s ability to control the woofers.

Ol’ skool says Class A all the way, please no negative feedback. Rationale of Class A is avoidance of crossover distortions through single-ended operation and constant power. Turn-side is the sauna-effect, i.e. most of the energy drawn is dissipated as heat. Not very comfy, not very green. In a push & pull output-stage topology power is generated more efficiently by using multiple output devices in parallel. Also, while a single-ended amp always operates in Class A, a push & pull design can operate in either A or B.

Similarly, while negative feedback can be generally used to reduce distortions, sub-optimal implementation can lead to instability of the amp and cause oscillation. Therefore, the easy answer is to avoid negative feedback. Many great, but traditionally designed amps stick to these two rules as the path to audio Nirvana. It’s a bit like assuming displacement is the only way to create torque in a car engine. In both cases it works, but is a somewhat old-fashioned and inefficient approach (as often observed in US vs. European car engines).

More modern amp designs, like e.g. from Soulution and Audionet, prefer to leverage the efficiency of A/B designs, and are not afraid to use negative feedback to minimize distortions to extremely low levels. In their designs the aforementioned potential problems of using negative feedback are eliminated through their meticulous designs. Distortions are further eliminated through ultra high-frequency designs operating up to 700-800 kHz levels.

In the Humboldt design signals are in addition linearized in real-time at zero crossing, with positive and negative signals separated on component level, even down to separate power supplies for each. There are also no electromechanical (e.g. relais) or passive (e.g. condensator) components in the signal path.

But there are also ways to implement pure Class A more efficiently, as e.g. with the microcontroller based operation approach in the latest Boulder designs, which also adjust the supplied Class A power constantly on a need-to basis. They therefore produce less heat compared to e.g. Pass and Gryphon designs.

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**Dre_J** · April 24, 2021, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Work in progress... Believe this is the Stern though, as Humboldt’s capacitor bank is more heavily loaded.

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That is the Humboldt chassis.

**Kuoppis** · April 24, 2021, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Dre_J

That is the Humboldt chassis.

Chassis yes, as they’re the same for Humboldt and Stern, but how can you tell whether this is a Humboldt or a Stern?

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**Dre_J** · April 24, 2021, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Chassis yes, as they’re the same for Humboldt and Stern, but how can you tell whether this is a Humboldt or a Stern?

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It's pretty simple: The electronics and configuration inside (in addition to the rear chassis panel) are the Humboldt.

**Kuoppis** · April 24, 2021, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dre_J

It's pretty simple: The electronics and configuration inside (in addition to the rear chassis panel) are the Humboldt.

You are right, the Stern has a horizontal row of connectors on the rear of the chassis and also the board layout is different.

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**u-sound** · April 30, 2021, 03:05 PM

and....did the machine arrive by now?

**Kuoppis** · May 1, 2021, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by u-sound

and....did the machine arrive by now?

Unfortunately, I’m still waiting.

Delivery was promised by end of April, but there appears to be a couple days delay.

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**u-sound** · May 8, 2021, 05:47 AM

and, any update?

**mep** · May 13, 2021, 03:16 PM

Bump

**Kuoppis** · May 14, 2021, 02:35 AM

There it is

!

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**FDPDK** · May 14, 2021, 03:42 AM

Kuoppis congratulations with it and now we are almost as excited as you , ha ha....now it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on it.

**Kuoppis** · May 14, 2021, 04:25 AM

This is just to show the level of detail going into this amp.

The packaging is not your regular card board box, or even double card board box, or a Magico M Series hammer and nails plywood box for that matter. It’s a proper professional stage gear box, metal re-enforced corners and all.

There are layers of wood compartments, padding etc.

Overall exceptionally high quality for consumer audio gear.

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**Kuoppis** · May 14, 2021, 04:37 AM

And in-situ.

Must say I love, love, love the Furutech Rhodium speaker binding posts. The best I have ever experienced.

The remote in also proper metalwork, with engraved logo. Looks the part and handles well. And does not drop from the armrest all the time, like this ridiculous Soulution egg.

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**Kuoppis** · May 14, 2021, 04:50 AM

Why did it take so long?

Getting the transaction completed with trade-in of the Soulutions was a bit of an ordeal with the dealer. There were agreed schedules that were not kept, no updates and upsets when I inquired about the progress, and a little bit of porky pies about the actual situation etc.

But at the end another dealer took over, who was very easy and pleasant to work with. And Audionet played their part, and supported the situation also very nicely. They’re a good company to work with. So, the new dealer picked up the amp on Monday in Berlin, directly from the Audionet factory. And he was also kind enough to run it in for me for three days and nights, before I could pick it up on Thursday.

So end is well, all is well.

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**Kuoppis** · May 14, 2021, 05:02 AM

Case work: the floating pane design is really gorgeous live. Even better than in the pictures. Esslinger’s design work is amazing, and the Audionet manufacturing quality really is immaculate. This amp is altogether a different level.

The huuuge control knob is mechanically very satisfying to handle. I don’t really need to operate it, as I have the remote. But I want to! The double bearing just feels so nice to handle.

This is what the floating pane design means, the panels are attached to an internal frame instead to each other to eliminate microphony effects.

The cooling vents are probably the nicest I have seen in an audio amp. Very delicate indeed.

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**FDPDK** · May 14, 2021, 05:15 AM

That looks really amazing Kuoppis , and glad to hear that the situation with the dealer went well in the end....things like that are really annoying.
Am sure you will enjoy a lot of happy hours with it.

**Kuoppis** · May 14, 2021, 05:20 AM

How does it sound?

The reviews I have seen are all singing the highest praise possible. Is it justified? In a word, IMHO yes. One review said that the Humboldt is probably better than similarly priced separates. In case of the Soulution 520/ 511 combo it replaces, most definitely.

The amp has now been running incessantly for maybe 120 hours, so the expectation is that it will further improve. But already now it’s surpassing the Soulutions by a really wide margin. While I liked the Soulutions, they do have a darkish sound signature. The Humboldt does not, it’s therefore more neutral, while sounding full and detailed, with spectacular sound colors.

A couple things to pick out:
- the level of definition with absolutely zero etchiness or sharpness you are getting from this amp, is simply phenomenal - I have not heard similar before
- the soundstage is very deep and wide, expanding to a different level compared to the Soulutions (which are world class amps, and the combo is about 50K) - it’s very easy to pinpoint the musicians’ exact locations, and e.g. when they’re moving around in live recordings
- micro detail retrieval is exceptional, which allows to listen deeper into the recordings and hear things like venue reverberations on a frankly speaking new level - I’m flabbergasted
- bass is very deep and detailed, without being a bit bloated or a result of a warmish sound signature
- dynamics are really excellent, guess due to the high capacitance and quick rise-time, this amp is super fast and transient speed is just lightning quick

Will I complain and send it back? Don’t think so. It’s in my own system everything I was hoping for, and much more. I’m really stoked.

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**Kuoppis** · May 14, 2021, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by FDPDK

Kuoppis congratulations with it and now we are almost as excited as you , ha ha....now it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on it.

Thanks Flemming, as just reported, even after only 120 hours of operation the first impressions are that it’s staggeringly good.

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**Mike** · May 14, 2021, 07:14 AM

Congrats. What a gorgeous piece of kit. I’ve heard that amp and it is impressive. Congrats and enjoy in good health!

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**GSOphile** · May 14, 2021, 08:10 AM

An impressive piece, Kuoppis. At this level, it's really nice to hear that it's surpassing your expectations. Congratulations! Probably too early to ask, but I will anyway: does this upgrade make you want to upgrade something else in your system?

**Kuoppis** · May 14, 2021, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Congrats. What a gorgeous piece of kit. I’ve heard that amp and it is impressive. Congrats and enjoy in good health!

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Thanks Mike, I’m happy it worked out at the day’s end.

It’s a nice one.

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**GSOphile** · May 14, 2021, 08:23 AM

Whoa! I see in another thread that you have new speakers on order!

**Kuoppis** · May 14, 2021, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by GSOphile

An impressive piece, Kuoppis. At this level, it's really nice to hear that it's surpassing your expectations. Congratulations! Probably too early to ask, but I will anyway: does this upgrade make you want to upgrade something else in your system?

I’m re-working pretty much my entire system. But that’s not really related to the Humboldt, except that I do need a separate phono pre.

The overhaul is more a general thing I do from time-to-time.

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**Kuoppis** · May 14, 2021, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by GSOphile

Whoa! I see in another thread that you have new speakers on order!

Yes indeed, very much looking forward to that, but it will be a very long wait due to custom color.

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**mdp632** · May 14, 2021, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

I’m re-working pretty much my entire system. But that’s not really related to the Humboldt, except that I do need a separate phono pre.

The overhaul is more a general thing I do from time-to-time.

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Congrats on the Humboldt.

Perhaps the Scientist series phono will be released soon to compliment it :-)

Enjoy in good health.

**Kuoppis** · May 14, 2021, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by mdp632

Congrats on the Humboldt.

Perhaps the Scientist series phono will be released soon to compliment it :-)

Enjoy in good health.

Thank you

.

I had a look at the current PAM G2 with EXP, but decided to go for something else. Reason is that there’s quite a difference in sound signature between the scientist series and previous models.

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**Kuoppis** · May 15, 2021, 04:44 AM

While the Humboldt does all the loud stuff, bass, dynamics etc. very well, this is the kind of music where it pulls away from competition: delicate details, fast transients, tons of micro detail, enabled through 140 db channel separation and a > 120 db signal noise ratio.

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**u-sound** · May 15, 2021, 06:52 PM

coool, thx for the entertainement!

yeah, the humboldt sound can not really be described, the combination of abilities are too overhelming.
parts with higher specs than anything allowed to use a circuit that was not possible to use before.
this resulted in a sound with an enhanced spectrum. call it as you want.

the best thing, the pleasure is long term.
still after a year i am as fascinated as in the beginning.

**Kuoppis** · May 16, 2021, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by u-sound

coool, thx for the entertainement!

yeah, the humboldt sound can not really be described, the combination of abilities are too overhelming.
parts with higher specs than anything allowed to use a circuit that was not possible to use before.
this resulted in a sound with an enhanced spectrum. call it as you want.

the best thing, the pleasure is long term.
still after a year i am as fascinated as in the beginning.

I do agree, the Humboldt is really exceptional.

I’m very happy with it.

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**Kingsrule** · May 16, 2021, 10:25 AM

Is that a wifi signal in the upper right side of display?
If so whats it for?

**Kuoppis** · May 16, 2021, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

Is that a wifi signal in the upper right side of display?
If so whats it for?

Roon.

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**Kuoppis** · May 20, 2021, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

Is that a wifi signal in the upper right side of display?
If so whats it for?

Sorry, I misread your question. My bad.

I thought you were referring to the album cover picture. Yes, that’s Wifi in general and for Roon.

On the Humboldt display it is a Wifi connection for SW OTA updates. No need to connect cables. Wifi can be shut off when not in use.

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**Kuoppis** · May 20, 2021, 01:07 PM

After adding the Humboldt I feel like I don’t have an audio system anymore. Just music.

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**Kuoppis** · May 22, 2021, 05:13 AM

Adding the Brinkmann Edison mk2 as phono pre, as the Humboldt does not include a phono option, it appears there’s great synergy between these components.

Also, comparing this combination to the in-built phono pre in the Soulution 520, it’s on a different level. That said, I liked the Soulution phono better than the 6K Grandinote I had before.

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**Kuoppis** · May 24, 2021, 04:35 AM

The Humboldt’s dynamics, bass, full mids, sweet top-end and capability for micro detail retrieval come become apparent in a great way when listening to this nuanced Bach harpsichord recording. Also in the Viola di Gamba record played with period instruments. The materials and techniques used at the time are creating an overall softer presentation.

Monumental electronically amplified stuff or small ensemble is easy, but these delicate classical orchestral recordings are demanding a great amp. The amp’s qualities come to the fore, it’s really impressive.

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**ICUToo** · May 28, 2021, 08:07 PM

So if I could have
Demo Humboldt + RME ADI-2 DAC
or
Demo MBS Premier DAC + Benchmark AHB-2 amp
.
.
Which pair should I take?
No other source but streaming

**Kuoppis** · May 29, 2021, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by ICUToo

So if I could have
Demo Humboldt + RME ADI-2 DAC
or
Demo MBS Premier DAC + Benchmark AHB-2 amp
.
.
Which pair should I take?
No other source but streaming

Of course the Humboldt with the MSB Premier

.

But out the two listed ones, I would take the Humboldt pairing. Reason being, that with a lesser DAC you will nevertheless be able to experience the amps qualities. With other combo, while the MSB is great, you will not really be able to get the full benefit of all its qualities driven by the lower tier amp.

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**Drummer62** · May 29, 2021, 02:36 AM

In the last 4 months, I reviewed the Humboldt and the MSB Premier DAC. I bought the Humboldt.

Thread: Heads-up, changes en route: Adding AudioNet’s engineering-marvel Humboldt to the system