Thread: Ethernet switch test

Originally Posted by still-one

I listen to music for pleasure. I’m not even sure what critical listening is for.

For me, critical listening is when I'm reviewing a piece of gear. The rest of the time I'm listening for enjoyment. If someone thinks that streaming music isn't good enough for their "critical" listening, I for one wouldn't waste the money on purchasing a subscription.

Originally Posted by mep

Why bother to pay to stream music if it's not good enough for "critical" listening?

It is more than adequate to determine if I like the music well enough to purchase it and whether or not "hi-res" offers an improvement over 16/44.1 (often much less expensive to purchase), which is often not the case for albums with today's typical mastering style (which "blurs" the advantages I would like to hear with hi-res). In addition, the Qobuz subscription gives me a substantial discount on downloads for purchase, which easily pays for itself.

I should perhaps not describe my attentive listening as "critical". Focused, as opposed to background, would be more appropriate. "Background" is enough to determine whether or not I like the music. As always, YMMV.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

I know you can't judge SQ though YouTube, but you can certainly still here a difference between the switches on this video...

My post to which you made this response did not mention switches. It did mention cable modems, routers and Ethernet cables.

Originally Posted by rbbert

It is more than adequate to determine if I like the music well enough to purchase it and whether or not "hi-res" offers an improvement over 16/44.1 (often much less expensive to purchase), which is often not the case for albums with today's typical mastering style (which "blurs" the advantages I would like to hear with hi-res). In addition, the Qobuz subscription gives me a substantial discount on downloads for purchase, which easily pays for itself.

I should perhaps not describe my attentive listening as "critical". Focused, as opposed to background, would be more appropriate. "Background" is enough to determine whether or not I like the music. As always, YMMV.

I find more times than not (especially with jazz music) that the Quobuz 16/44.1 version of an album stomps on the so called hi-rez version. I seriously think that many of them are nothing more than upsampled versions of the original 16/44.1 files.

Originally Posted by mep

I find more times than not (especially with jazz music) that the Quobuz 16/44.1 version of an album stomps on the so called hi-rez version. I seriously think that many of them are nothing more than upsampled versions of the original 16/44.1 files.

The albums you listen to may be different than the ones I purchase. Other than the obvious upsamples (albums known to have been recorded at 16/44.1) almost none of the albums I buy in hi-res are upsamples; the frequency spectrum will clearly indicate this. OTOH, depending on the specific release and its mastering, a particular CD may well sound better than a different hi-res release of any given album.

Mike - feel free to delete this post if it breaks a forum rule.

But as I research more ethernet audio, I can across this review on an ethernet cable from a few years ago. The posts in the comments section back and forth between cable skeptics and the staff is very entertaining!


Review: Heresy with a Nordost Heimdall 2 ethernet cable - Part-Time Audiophile

Here is my favorite reply. In fact I think I'm going to borrow it and add it to my signature.

Editorial Staff says:
JANUARY 23, 2018 AT 3:39 PM

We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw.

ETA: this other AWESOME response:

Screen Shot 2022-12-09 at 8.43.28 AM.png

I don't understand what the point of the above post is beyond showing that audiophiles never agree on anything. Has anyone on AS compared the Nordost ethernet cable to the Supra CAT 8? If so, I would love to hear your thoughts.

Originally Posted by mep

I don't understand what the point of the above post is beyond showing that audiophiles never agree on anything. Has anyone on AS compared the Nordost ethernet cable to the Supra CAT 8? If so, I would love to hear your thoughts.

I ran across the Supra Cat-8 cables a few years ago. It IMO brought some quieting to my digital end. So, I ended up replacing my basic ethernet cables to computer,TV,GigaFoil, modem, Orbi wifi router coming from the English 8 switch. For a rather low price point they helped create a very stable digital side of my systems streaming. Pictured mess below.

Steaming mess.jpg

Originally Posted by Darrel

I ran across the Supra Cat-8 cables a few years ago. It IMO brought some quieting to my digital end. So, I ended up replacing my basic ethernet cables to computer,TV,GigaFoil, modem, Orbi wifi router coming from the English 8 switch. For a rather low price point they helped create a very stable digital side of my systems streaming. Pictured mess below.

Steaming mess.jpg

For $50 each (1M) they are definitely a good cable and a no-brainer . Though I don't feel they are the dragon-slayer others (not you) have claimed them to be.

I just finished some extensive testing with them today and surprisingly have only found them to be slightly better than BJC certified Cat 6+. This REALLY surprised me.

Before I updated switches the difference was almost non-existent between the two. Then after updating the Supra was a bit nicer than the BJC, but I expected better of it (I am certainly not saying it is a bad cable, just expected more from it).

I then moved to a $700 SOtM cable today we received for testing and that was definitely more noticeable, but again, I think people are missing out by spending money on cables first and not figure out what works best from a switch point of view. I am currently testing THREE and FOUR name brand switches inline and will have a review soon.

To put it in perspective I got a much bigger improvement with the switch set up I will be detailing than I ever got with just any cable - even the $700 one.

My most important ethernet cable in the digital end as far as audio impact. Is the Shunyata Alpha ethernet cable that runs from my silent computer to the Rose.

Originally Posted by Darrel

My most important ethernet cable in the digital end as far as audio impact. Is the Shunyata Alpha ethernet cable that runs from my silent computer to the Rose.

That is a NICE cable.

Originally Posted by Swisstrips

That is interesting. I've recently switched to an Aqua stack (La Scala mkII optologic + Linq with HQP modules) using Aqua's I2s connection (which is a must IMHO) from a opticalrendu and USB DAC's (Lampi / Holo). So it's been USB for the last couple yrs.

Since I run fiber to my listening room i did (had to) purchase the latest optical module deluxe and a short eth cable (blue jeans 6a) to the LinQ (using revelation audiolabs I2s). I thought "I'm done with USB for awhile". Now I have introduced eth and I2s cables,

I made the exact same transition on the hardware side and couldn’t be more pleased. My ethernet cable is a Wireworld Starlight 8 and I2S is Ghent. Haven’t taken the time to compare to anything else. I’m very satisfied with what I’m hearing.

Originally Posted by ADCO

I’m not sure if I responded to this thread or the similar one on “what’s best” but as always threads like this are interesting indeed.

I went down several rabbit holes with switches , cables and optical isolation

For me the road ended with a small Hong Kong company called Ediscreation. The make a really excellent bespoke switch with a high quality clock and equally high quality linear power supply on board. The switch comes in three configurations . Basic , extreme ( better components in power supply) and naked extreme with an unbelievable out board LPS
I ordered the basic and was really quite gobsmacked at the improvement .

Also, as far as optical isolation Ediscreation makes a device called a Fibre Box II. It sits between devices and is basically the same as a fibre media converter setup that also has a very good clocking scheme and a LPS on board. You can get this device amped up similarly to the switch.

My current setup is as follows:

-service provider modem>
-30’ WireWorld Starlight e-cable>
-Ediscreation Fibre box II >
-AudioQuest Diamond e-cable >
-Ediscreation basic switch ( switches to hifi /tv/Lyngdorf processor etc etc>
-AudioQuest Diamond e-cable >
-Innuos Zenith MKII server>
- AudioQuest Diamond e-cable >
-Ediscreation Fibre Box II >
-Shunyata Sigma e-cable >
-Auralic Aries G2.1/ Vega 2.1

Anyway, this setup has produced the most amazing sound from all things I stream. The only thing I would say is that if I knew how good this Ediscreation stuff was going to be I would have bought the extreme versions of all of it

In my books, the Fibre Box II is the device that pays the most dividends . The first one I used to isolate everything from the rest of the house. The second further isolates anything that “potentially” could be noisy from the many devices hooked into the switch.

This stuff is now on my must have list for easy, bulletproof “reasonable” cost ethernet solutions and I will be employing more of it on my office system as well.

Highly recommend this gear to anyone chasing that last degree of streaming upgrade.

My 2 Cents

I actually looked VERY closely at that one and was very close to ordering it. I ended up going with a PPA Quad and am anxious to see how it performs.

I've heard only good things about Edison and his gear.

Originally Posted by ADCO

Honestly, I took it on as a complete “flyer”. I didn’t know anyone personally who had tried their stuff but have personally gone the fibre media device path, ether regen path. Various cable swaps etc etc etc.

I kept reading about Edison’s stuff and decided , while not cheap…. Was a fraction of the cost of an equipment upgrade ( any component really) so I ordered.
I had no real idea what to expect or should I say that when all hooked up what the overall value proposition would be.

As stated, I wish I had gone to the top level now. What I think I’m going to do after the Xmas season is upgrade the switch and the second Fibre box to Ediscreation extreme units without a power supply and order his Firebird LPS to power the two new components

Then just take the switch and Fibre box I already have and insert it into the office system

Serious first world problems to be sure but cleaning up this ethernet stuffs is like a new frontier for me.
The most consequential improvement is from the Tidal feed I use. Sounds just amazing to be honest. Best I have been able to stream this far and equally as good as the same tracks that are stored on my Innuos .

I can't remember the details, but I've read the update uses a wire or cap that some people didn't like so they are requesting him to do the update while leaving out some of the updates. My advice based on my testing is to have the Edison box by your streamer, and then put one or two mass market switches by your wall outlet. My upcoming video will have details on my testing results but it will 100% be a bigger improvement for you than if you had simply done the upgrade on the switch.

Stay tuned for more details.

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Did you order the switch directly? They don't appear to have a North American distributor/dealer.

Yes. You email them and they are very responsive and will ship directly.

The Hong Kong audiophile clubs have written about this switch and compared it to others such as SOtM, Telegartner, etc.

The Telegartner seems to be the best of the all, but in my mind the custom connectors requiring unique cables is a non-starter.

Tried a D-Link switch at 9 and then 50 hours burn in. WOW. Making a super strong showing. Noticeable difference at 0 then 50 hours. Might is as good with the factory power supply as the TP-Link and Netgear with upgraded power?

50 more hours on burn in left on the switch and then more testing to come....

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Don't necessarily discount the reason that the D-Link sounds better after 50 hours is due to the fact the clock(s) inside have had time to settle. The clocks are extremely sensitive to vibration, and in the case of my AfterDark clock, was told that it would take a full month for the AD Master Clock to fully settle once installed in the rack, and not to move it once it's in posiition.

Certainly would be.but it was jostled heavily during the testing at 50 hours as I switched cables and such between the boxes and power plugs. I would think (I certainly am no expert on the switches) that any settling would have been undone by the moving them around and such repeatedly.

In that regard they all get put on a pretty even footing as they all get moved around equally.

Also, the D-link with OEM power supply was almost equal to the others with upgraded power which really surprised me. I don't know if the D-link will be able to close the gap ultimately with the others, but I can't wait to find out.

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

No worries, Michael, just wanted to mention not to overlook the impact of vibration on clocks for digital "audio" devices. Cheers.

No - I appreciate you mentioning it! I didn't realize it was a "thing" so I learned something new which I appreciate.

I've got four more switches (one being a high end switch) on the way to try as well. The high end one was sent via Mail from overseas instead of DHL so it could be 2024 before it arrives. LOL

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

It's high-end audio, so everything is a "thing".... 🤣

LOL. Very, very true.

After I finish the switch tests I'm going to study how the phases of the Moon affect the streaming quality of my Qobuz.

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

The phases of the Moon may not have an effect, but the temperature of the room does. My system sounds best between 68-72°F.

Out of curiosity, I had previously recorded Time, Temperature, Humidity and the Barometric Pressure of listening sessions.
I discovered the variable that was most responsible for my system "sounding good" during any particular listening session was barometric pressure.
Temperature was more or less (1 or 2 degrees) constant so cannot coment on how wider variations would effect the presentation.

Originally Posted by jadedavid

Out of curiosity, I had previously recorded Time, Temperature, Humidity and the Barometric Pressure of listening sessions.
I discovered the variable that was most responsible for my system "sounding good" during any particular listening session was barometric pressure.
Temperature was more or less (1 or 2 degrees) constant so cannot coment on how wider variations would effect the presentation.

That's interesting. I can totally believe that atmospheric conditions will affect how sound is transmitted.

Intro video to the series of vids on Ethernet Audio I am doing just posted:

HI-FI Ethernet Audio - How to Get the BEST Sound Streaming! - YouTube

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Yes, of course, because barometric pressure is a measure of air density. And the reason temperature plays a role is because there is linear relationship between barometric pressure and temperature. This gets us back to the Ideal Gas Law, PV=nRT.

As I live in the SF Bay Area near sea level, the single factor that impacts my room most consistently is temperature. Changes in barometric pressure from the weather can play a role if the weather changes enough, but as it almost never rains in California anymore and given my room is always the same volume (V), day to day, temperature (the T part of the equation above) is the single factor that influences my room most consistently.

Dont'cha just love...science?

assuming your listening room is not sealed (ie: air tight), the amount of ideal gas (n) will never be constant as air is free to move in and out of the room so as to equalize pressure ...hence, the ideal gas law would not hold in audio listening room applications.

Burning in 5 new switches.

These are mid-priced mass-market (~$200) vs. more entry level (~$45).

Intro video was posted yesterday with beginning of the test results vid to be posted in the next couple of days.

IMG_1504.JPG

Originally Posted by JCS123

I just saw the intro video and I'm looking forward to the comparisons.

Please refresh my memory - will you be tesing the Gigafoil v4 INLINE?

he noted in this set of test " These are mid-priced mass-market (~$200) vs. more entry level (~$45).". The Gigafoil v4 us $550

Originally Posted by JCS123

I just saw the intro video and I'm looking forward to the comparisons.

Please refresh my memory - will you be tesing the Gigafoil v4 INLINE?

Thanks for watching!

Yes. I have a high end ($2K) switch on the way as well that will be part of the testing. It's actually a quad switch that has FOUR switches in one custom chassis with a LPS as stock.

I'm first going to find the best combo of entry level / mid level mass market switches with and without upgraded power supplies. So far I've found some really interesting results on these.

Then I'm going to see how they work with a high end switch in the chain and see what the winning mix is.

Then once I find the winning combo of both versions I'm going to add the GigaFoil to see what differences - if any - it imparts.

I figure there will be at least 3-4 more vids in the series as I am trying to keep them shorter (like about 10-15 minutes) than one really super long one.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

Thanks for watching!

Yes. I have a high end ($2K) switch on the way as well that will be part of the testing. It's actually a quad switch that has FOUR switches in one custom chassis with a LPS as stock.

I'm first going to find the best combo of entry level / mid level mass market switches with and without upgraded power supplies. So far I've found some really interesting results on these.

Then I'm going to see how they work with a high end switch in the chain and see what the winning mix is.

Then once I find the winning combo of both versions I'm going to add the GigaFoil to see what differences - if any - it imparts.

I figure there will be at least 3-4 more vids in the series as I am trying to keep them shorter (like about 10-15 minutes) than one really super long one.

Also wanted to add we will be testing BJC cable ($11), SOtM cable ($700), Soblon cable, and an SOtM ethernet filter ($400).

I also went one step further and tested the filter next to the switch both on the wall side and on the streamer side and it DID make a difference!

It's crazy what makes differences in this area.

And yes, I did find a way to mention Bose in my video. LOL

Originally Posted by JCS123

Good point, Puma. I'll be curious to see what level of LPS's, if any, will be used.

Puma's point is well taken.

Interesting sneak peak on some results so far on the entry level mass-market switches:

I tried the three major brands (Two different Cisco switches refused to connect to my router signal so they will not be in this test).

Of the three brands I also tried some that were PoE and some without. Best results was a mixture of them (details to follow in vids).

There is also a sound difference between 5 port and 8 port units of the same model/brand.

There is also a sound difference on WHERE you plug in the ethernet cables on the switches.

Also one of the brands with the factory PS KICKED THE BUTT of the other two that had an upgraded LPS on them. It was really surprising.

The reason I ventured into the mid-range was for exactly what Puma Cat mentioned - I wanted to see if there is any better noise rejection in the stock form with the higher priced units in larger form factor.

Both the SOtM filter itself and the SOtM cable (which has a filter on it) is designed to suppress noise. I already know the results and will share them soon as to whether they do or don't and what the sound difference it.