Thread: end game audio system -- how do you know you are there?

having spent the past 2+ years slowly and methodically building / upgrading my system, i must say that at this point i am really, really enjoying it. when listening critically, i no longer find myself thinking that i need to upgrade this component or that cable, etc. instead, i find myself thinking about things like the quality of the recording.

honestly, i do not think embarking on another upgrade cycle would increase my listening enjoyment one iota. so, i may have reached my version of the proverbial end-game.

however, that being said, the tinkerer/hobbyist/audiophile in me says this is a heck of a lot of fun -- keep going!!

just curious how others here know when they have reached or will reach their end-game -- and once there what do you do?

Originally Posted by aKnyght

just curious how others here know when they have reached or will reach their end-game -- and once there what do you do?

Will stop when they pry my cold dead fingers from my checkbook...:-)

Cincy

Originally Posted by Cincy2

Will stop when they pry my cold dead fingers from my checkbook...:-)

Cincy

lol -- i was afraid that would be the answer...

i have also heard it said: there are certain things one does in this stage of life that just simply equate to a smaller inheritance for the kids.

When the hearse arrives to pick me up

When you can no longer justify the costs associated with the next upgrade. The decision has nothing to do with having the funds rather is the expenditure asking you to cross a arbitrary line you have drawn in the sand for each component.

Originally Posted by aKnyght

having spent the past 2+ years slowly and methodically building / upgrading my system, i must say that at this point i am really, really enjoying it. when listening critically, i no longer find myself thinking that i need to upgrade this component or that cable, etc. instead, i find myself thinking about things like the quality of the recording.

honestly, i do not think embarking on another upgrade cycle would increase my listening enjoyment one iota. so, i may have reached my version of the proverbial end-game.

however, that being said, the tinkerer/hobbyist/audiophile in me says this is a heck of a lot of fun -- keep going!!

just curious how others here know when they have reached or will reach their end-game -- and once there what do you do?

me too, in the modern era of internet, forums, etc it's easy to get 'sucked in' to the merry-go-round.

as an active and competitive shotgun shooter I've said the same thing when it comes to the latest and greatest clay gun, haven't bought a new shotgun in over a year, guess I'm due ..........

My two vices in life are being an audiophile and a photographer. As an audiophile, I haven't reached end-stage system yet. Though I do have an end-stage system in mind and a plan to get there ...

As a photographer, however, I haven't upgraded my body/lenses in close to three years now because at a certain point, I realized that the image quality coming out of that camera was frickin' amazing and I felt like it wasn't the tools holding me back anymore.

I'm hoping to get to the same point with the stereo when I reach the same "plateau" as I did with my camera gear. Say, around 2023.

Wow, boy can I relate... I think I am so close... I absolutely love the sound of my system... I am completely astonished that a step down in speakers would actually bring me to nirvana. Then something inside me says... but but, maybe just more power, or or this or that... but honestly at this point I am not sure where else I would go.

I was thinking that everyone says I need more power for the Magnepan's, but then I listen to the "little" T+A and see it provides more pure power than I will ever need and it sounds sooooooo good... but but but... then I realize this system sounds amazing to me.. maybe it is time to just enjoy...

Originally Posted by aKnyght

having spent the past 2+ years slowly and methodically building / upgrading my system, i must say that at this point i am really, really enjoying it. when listening critically, i no longer find myself thinking that i need to upgrade this component or that cable, etc. instead, i find myself thinking about things like the quality of the recording.

honestly, i do not think embarking on another upgrade cycle would increase my listening enjoyment one iota. so, i may have reached my version of the proverbial end-game.

however, that being said, the tinkerer/hobbyist/audiophile in me says this is a heck of a lot of fun -- keep going!!

just curious how others here know when they have reached or will reach their end-game -- and once there what do you do?

If you strike oil sonically, then you should stop drilling. However, if you uncover a bottleneck in your system, it should be addressed.

Best,
Ken

Or maybe have fun assembling a new system for another room. maybe base it on a different front end or a different type of speaker system. main system remains the primary and the new one opens up a lot of fun and tinkering. you could also go crazy and make it surround sound with video.

I will stop when I cannot justify the upgrade cost. I will stop swapping gears when I stop reading posts (I have an itch for upgrade/change when I see someone saying good things about the gears they have) and just enjoy what I have.

This reply isn't exactly what you are asking, but it works for most of my RoomPlay clients, and has for me for many years:

When I am voicing a client's system to their room, I am listening to tracks that I have heard many thousands of times. I actually think I know exactly what happens in the next few nanoseconds as the music unfolds.

Even so, when I find myself falling into this music that I have heard countless times, it's time for me to turn and say to my client, "we're done."

lot of really interesting and insightful perspectives here.

i don't mean to say that i can't improve upon the SQ of my comparatively very modest system. rather, i just don't think there will be greater toe-tapping, head-bobbing and overall enjoyment from the listening experience with any further material system upgrades.

on the other hand, there are other parts of this hobby that i find quite enjoyable: the tinkering, research, learning, experimenting, etc with new or different types of gear and technologies. there is still plenty of fun to be had in this area. it is always the journey rather than the destination -- right?

just curious about the thinking of others on the topic ...that and maybe just looking to give myself permission to indulge further.

The end game for me is when your health dictates your hobby goals, be it audio, photography, cars, golf, fishing or anything you enjoy. Its then that you know your priorities in life.

Originally Posted by CPP

The end game for me is when your health dictates your hobby goals, be it audio, photography, cars, golf, fishing or anything you enjoy. Its then that you know your priorities in life.

I like that, well said! Luckily at this point I am fit as a fiddle!


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just saw this thread topic. seems like it was calling me.

i've been on a 26 year run of serious system building, including a no holds barred purpose built dedicated room. and i'm actually at that "know you are there" end game point right now. this last year i've added 3 more turntables and associated gear, and the last of those pieces (three cartridges, another turntable and arm, and 2 exotic cables) arrived in the last 30 days. a couple years ago i upgraded my digital, and two years ago added my 3rd tape deck. 5 years ago i finished tweaking my room, a year ago my long term amps were upgraded.

there was actually a strategic plan somewhat driving this; i'll retire likely in the next 20-30 months, and i did not want to be in acquire mode any more. and for my particular sonic tastes and speaker type, i'm where i want to be and there are really no forward jumps left. i'd need to change to horns or dipoles or some other driver tech to really take things in a different direction, and not interested.

my system fulfills my reference sound in my head, checks all the boxes, every time i listen it excites me. no unfulfilled gear lust. never wanted to listen more than right now. i'm happy. so i feel i have reached a system status where it's at the point to stop and smell the roses.

so for me it's a combination of (1) finishing my system plan completely, and (2) anticipated life changes. i did invest more than most into hifi, but got a big level of satisfaction too. and i'm not stopping my enjoyment or selling off my gear; now it's time to just listen. i will likely be buried in my room.

time to go fishing ('catching' is a different thing).

Originally Posted by puroagave

Fishing in your neck' means downrigging for salmon (boring). Mike, don't take this the wrong way but you're never 'there' I cant be the only person that has watched you and your system grow into what it is today. You managed to do it quickly and reach the pointy end in under a two decades--which takes most of us at least three, if not more. So, for the sake of being modest lets just say you're taking a respite until after you retire, then its back to no holds barred

Yep, pretty sums it up for Mike as well as all of us


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Originally Posted by puroagave

Fishing in your neck' means downrigging for salmon (boring). Mike, don't take this the wrong way but you're never 'there' I cant be the only person that has watched you and your system grow into what it is today. You managed to do it quickly and reach the pointy end in under a two decades--which takes most of us at least three, if not more. So, for the sake of being modest lets just say you're taking a respite until after you retire, then its back to no holds barred

well......my neck of the woods extends to the Aleutians. and i was clear that the catching part was not significant. it's more where you are than what you catch. best cruising in the world from here to there......and i will have time. with some fishing thrown in. but not quite ready to do that yet. moving that direction.

as far as my system and whether i'm done, it's fair to say we have to just see how that goes. i know how i feel about it right now.

if you were me, what would you aspire to do to get to a higher level of hifi performance along the same path i've been on? show me what i should be thinking about. and not being a smart ass, just curious where i still need to go.

In all honesty....

I could have easily stopped 3 years ago with my end game systems (as I have 2 I play with).

But .... I still have a job and like it. So I've been able to get even a better to my ears and toe tapping system since then.

So I'm HAPPY AS ..ck to have this as my end system. But ..... will I stop. HAHAHAHAHA. that's funny!!!!

At some point - my end system requirements will probably change. Just like my wife and I went from a 4,000SF house to a 1,400 sf house 5 years ago and love that change!!

IDK, My system sounds great and my whole excuse for spending so much(for me) was because it's my end game system, but change is fun so i'll probably build a smaller 2nd system, or another motorcycle. First world problems eh.

In my view you are there when each time you are listening to music you get a big smile and think ‘WTF’. It took me about 30 years to get at this point. About 10 years ago a finished my dedicated room, wherein I made hardly any/no compromises and that provided me with a lot of relieve in my head. After that I upgraded by system in quite big steps and in a structured way. Currently no clue what I could do to improve it even further, but going back to the first sentence... if you have well recorded content and you are dragged into the music, you should be happy and conclude that you reached your end-point. Stop spending money on hardware and buy music.

My feeling is as Jan said. I sit down in my listening room and never cease to be stunned by the sound my system creates. I can be taken to the world of any performer that is playing at that time.
I'm sure there may be some power supply upgrades and possibly a cable or 2 that gets changed but I don't have any need to move on.

Earlier this year when I upgraded to the Wilson Alexx I realized after a while that I was no longer listening in terms of audiophile terms but just enjoying the music. Before the speakers I was always thinking I'm almost there as this or that isn't quite right ... Now I'm done with this version of the system as I have no desire to change anything at all. Also, ignorance is bliss! :-)

George

Probably depends if the hobby is the music or the gear. Having the ability to swap out components that accentuate a different spectrum of sound and make old songs sound different enough to be interesting again can't be dismissed.

My current system is the most natural sounding i've heard anywhere so I'm done right? hmm.

I have basically had six different systems in my listening room over the last 28 years. Three of the systems produced stellar sound quality and musicality and the other three were disappointments.

The moral of my story is breaking down a great sounding system and replacing it with a more expensive one does not always result in better sound. The winning systems were system one (Denon, Bryston, Apogee), system four (Esoteric, Pass Labs, Revel) and system six (MSB, Vandersteen, Vandersteen). Each of these systems produced magical sound.

Ken

Hi Carlos,

I hope all is well with you. I know you’ve had some amazing gear grace your listening room over the last several years. It would be interesting to hear where you’ve landed and if you are content or if further system changes are planned.

Best,
Ken

Originally Posted by Alpinist

I have basically have had six different systems in my listening room over the last 28 years. Three of the systems produced stellar sound quality and musicality and the other three were disappointments. The moral of my story is breaking down a great sounding system and replacing it with a more expensive one does not always result in better sound. The winning systems were system one (Denon, Bryston, Apogee), system four (Esoteric, Pass Labs, Revel) and system six (MSB, Vandersteen, Vandersteen).

Ken

Hi Ken,

Hope you are well and throughly enjoying your current wonderful MSB-Vandersteen system.

I can relate totally to your post. In many ways, for me the enjoyment of this hobby, aside from the pure listening pleasure, also comes from continually learning new things about audio, and applying that knowledge to hopefully improve the listening pleasure; even though the improvements quickly reach a point of decreasing marginal benefit per unit cost.

So I’m curious to hear your thoughts on what, in your case, motivated you to move from system 1 to 4 and then to system 6, although the two systems previous to 6 “produced stellar sound and musicality”? And what specific improvements do you feel you gained in system 6 versus 1 and 4?

Thanks


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Objectively I realize there is better everything out there. Emotionally, I feel I have reached my end game.

Originally Posted by Kingrex

I like the way Chris put it. It will never really end if I'm healthy, happy and have and income, and interest in audio. At the least, I will wear out a cartridge. Tubes will die. Something will fail. Something will need tweaking. I am already thinking I want new caps In my speakers. Will I make big component changes. Maybe, maybe not. I don't want to. I have other hobbies and activities that fulfill me too.

As for Mike L. His new quest should be to slowly shrink it all. Take it from the massive towers to a single driver and 2.7 watts😂

as far as shrinking it all, or a different amp/speaker approach, i suppose how my life evolves with pending retirement is maybe the significant issue. i'm prepared to continue this level of involvement in the hobby, and with this room and system, but when i don't have the 6 day a week work focus and stress, will i view all this as essential anymore? right now it fits perfectly as a balance to work.

anyway that is the prism i'm viewing this through. i'm not going to continue this approach as some sort of shrine, it has to be what i love to do to keep this up. i could see fewer turntables, i could see fewer tape decks. a different speaker/amp approach? the only reason i might do that is that i've gone as far as large dynamic cone speakers can take me, and do believe that my room/system is able to do horn-like or planar-like things already. but would a change be enough fun to go to the trouble? or might i move from my room for life style reasons and then be able to try something different for difference sake?

i have interests and repressed hobbies (i've not given the needed time or resources to) that might rise up and command more of my time and so could push hifi to a different spot in my life. no way right now to say for sure how that will go.

i will simply follow my heart and keep on keeping on.

Originally Posted by bzr

If your neighbors love your music you're doing it right!!!

Also when your wife asks you to turn it up, or just walks over and cranks it, is also a good indication.

Right now I'm playing Ella Fitzgerald and Count Basie over my new system and it just carries me to a wonderful place...no politics, no street violence, no escalating pandemic, no war, no global tensions. Just peace, tranquility, and a high like no other. Great music, great sound, great musicians. It just doesn't get any better.

Originally Posted by cmarin

Hi Ken,

Hope you are well and throughly enjoying your current wonderful MSB-Vandersteen system.

I can relate totally to your post. In many ways, for me the enjoyment of this hobby, aside from the pure listening pleasure, also comes from continually learning new things about audio, and applying that knowledge to hopefully improve the listening pleasure; even though the improvements quickly reach a point of decreasing marginal benefit per unit cost.

So I’m curious to hear your thoughts on what, in your case, motivated you to move from system 1 to 4 and then to system 6, although the two systems previous to 6 “produced stellar sound and musicality”? And what specific improvements do you feel you gained in system 6 versus 1 and 4?

Thanks


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Hi Carlos,

System 1 with the Apogee Duetta Signature speakers provided the most lifelike vocals and piano I ever heard in my listening room. Just stunning realism. What eventually drove me crazy was too much brightness in the the treble. I didn’t know much about how to address these issues back at that point in time, so I moved on.

System 4 with Pass XA-100.5 monoblocks and Revel Salon 2 speakers sounded luscious after the amps had warmed up for 4 hours. A truly magical sound. The big negative was a lack of bass at anything but high volume levels. My normal listening preference is low to medium volume levels.

My current system with MSB Select 2 DAC and Vandersteen monoblocks and Model 7 Mk2 speakers has no weak points. Smooth effortless treble, organic and natural sounding midrange, and robust and perfectly tuned bass for my room. I can listen all day without any fatigue. No need or desire to bring in a new system again.

Best,
Ken

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Hi Carlos,

System 1 with the Apogee Duetta Signature speakers provided the most lifelike vocals and piano I ever heard in my listening room. Just stunning realism. What eventually drove me crazy was too much brightness in the the treble. I didn’t know much about how to address these issues back at that point in time, so I moved on.

System 4 with Pass XA-100.5 monoblocks and Revel Salon 2 speakers sounded luscious after the amps had warmed up for 4 hours. A truly magical sound. The big negative was a lack of bass at anything but high volume levels. My normal listening preference is low to medium volume levels.

My current system with MSB Select 2 DAC and Vandersteen monoblocks and Model 7 Mk2 speakers has no weak points. Smooth effortless treble, organic and natural sounding midrange, and robust and perfectly tuned bass for my room. I can listen all day without any fatigue. No need or desire to bring in a new system again.

Best,
Ken

That’s fantastic Ken. Truly a balancing act including how to incorporate your own preferences and how they may evolve over time. Congratulations on reaching your endpoint!

I’ve been thinking about how to respond to your question without getting wordy yet capturing the basics - another balancing act! Will respond soon.


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I have an active dsp system that I enjoy and find no fault with with the exception that the hobby isn’t very interactive if I can’t throw money at it. Maybe I’ll send an email requesting chrome plated emblems or something. I can see why audiophiles have a second system.

It should be mentioned (Jim Smith already alluded to it) that the "room" is as much a part of one's system as the components, so "end game system" should also mean you won't be moving or otherwise changing your listening room

When you are broke, destitute and divorced from spending all your money on audio gear.

Or

When you can finally sit and listen to music for hours at a time without looking for flaws in your system.