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Thread: Edís System

  1. #151
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    Re: Edís System

    Fuse vs Magnetic CB. People are always touting this or that $30 to $100 or so fuse. Always saying they have a sonic signature. I don't think I have ever heard someone say they hear a difference between CB. The Equitech power stations use SqD oem din rail mounted CB. Most power conditioners with a protective element use a CB. Even my preamp uses a CB.

    Have you ever split open a fuse. Its a very thin wire or thin flat plate of metal. A CB is 2 metal contact plates with a pretty heavy copper strap between the line and load contacts. The though behind a CB being superior to a fuse is it passes more unobstructed current than a fuse. A fuse is an intentionally small resistive element deaigned to fail under a set load. A CB should never fail under load. It has a sensing element that opens the contacts under an overload condition. The internal components are significantly more robust than the element in a fuse. I have busted open both.

    I don't doubt you hear a difference between fuses. But you almost have to ask why. Why do fuses sound different from each other but CB don't. Is what you hear with a fuse superior to a CB or just different. Are you actually using the fuse to tune your sound like a power cable. Do fuses restrict current. Your taking a 10 awg branch circut wire and inserting a short maybe 22 awg wire in line with the power supply. When I busted open a 200 amp fuse i was surprised it was only maybe a 1" wide, pretty flimsy piece of copper with a consistent hole pattern through the element plate. It was nothing compared to the 3/0 conductor fed from it. I remember being surprised how little material it was.

  2. #152

    Re: Edís System

    Kingrex

    I think you are a man of experimentation.
    But due to your professional training, i understand there are things that are difficult to accept.
    Everything you said is completely logical.
    But, as certanly you agree, the logical talk of those who do not believe in a series of tweaks, for example power cables, is very difficult to fight. Saiyng that, I know that you know that, in audio, logic does not always resist to the experimentation.


    By the way: I have an uncle who is an electrician and it was he who did the electrical installation in my house. When i spoke to him on the fuse holder, he refused to do the job saying that i was already going crazy. And so I had to ask someone else. I don't regret it. I moved to the fuse holder and I'm not going back.


    (do you know that there are still those who believe that valves sound better than transistors? And probably they are right)

  3. #153
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    Re: Edís System

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    Kingrex

    I think you are a man of experimentation.
    But due to your professional training, i understand there are things that are difficult to accept.
    Everything you said is completely logical.
    But, as certanly you agree, the logical talk of those who do not believe in a series of tweaks, for example power cables, is very difficult to fight. Saiyng that, I know that you know that, in audio, logic does not always resist to the experimentation.


    By the way: I have an uncle who is an electrician and it was he who did the electrical installation in my house. When i spoke to him on the fuse holder, he refused to do the job saying that i was already going crazy. And so I had to ask someone else. I don't regret it. I moved to the fuse holder and I'm not going back.


    (do you know that there are still those who believe that valves sound better than transistors? And probably they are right)
    Spock

    Thanks for the thought.

    I too donít doubt fuses do something to sound in components and distribution, and you have gained something from this - I just never went down that upgrade path.

    There is a fuse in each of the Nordost MKII distribution strips I run.

    Would fuses do something in my panel, I donít know, first the breaker would have to fit as OEM, and before all that I would need to understand them better, I have zero knowledge in this department.


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  4. #154
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    Re: Edís System

    I 100% ageee it will sound different. I just wonder the result. Have you done a real A-B. What did you hear. What changed from CB to fuse. Can you explain some of the differences. What to expect.

  5. #155

    Re: Edís System

    Allow me to reply with what I wrote in a Portuguese forum in July 2014
    Note that first i made the simple exchange for an ordinary fuse holder and only later for an "audiophile" (AHP)

    Going on the path of the fuses, and after having successfully tried to replace the circuit breaker of the electrical panel with a fuse holder, it was necessary to try to change the fuse.
    Note that I do not speak to you of differences for which it is necessary to refine the ear, allowing us to even doubt whether they existed in fact. I speak of obvious differences in the first few seconds of hearing. And what kind of differences? Exactly the same type. Improved sound across the board, with an obvious upgrade in transparency and the system's ability to play louder and louder with less distortion. An enormous sea of ​​tranquility is perhaps the best summary of the effect of fuses. Note that I am not confusing this tranquility with loss of harmonics or information. On the contrary. The detail and the information seem to increase because there is a real cleaning in the sound. I read a comment on an international forum by someone who said that replacing fuses allowed him to get from the sound of transistors devices to the soft sound he usually only knew associated with valves. This is a good image of the velvety effect that fuses give to the sound. But if the fuse makes a difference, why not the fuse holder? Only buying I would know. Expecting to draw some conclusions from the opinions written on the net is an (almost) impossible task. There is also not enough information based on experience and unmistakably credible. So I had no choice but to try it myself. And now it made perfect sense to bet on the same brand (AHP).

    My good friendsssssss! I don't know if trying the fuse holder first, it would also be at the second moment, that of changing the fuse, that i would notice the greatest impact. This considering my theory that, as things gets better in the system, each new arrangement seems to create even greater impact and necessarily generate a greater qualitative leap than the previous step. Such a geometric progression of performance that I talked about earlier. The truth is that fuse and fuse holder are at this moment for me Yin and Yang, they are two sides of the same coin, two objects that complement each other and that must be acquired simultaneously without fear. I recommend the purchase to everyone. A step that sooner or later all audiophiles should take. And if so, why not earlier? Even if you are still at the entry level in terms of the system, and possibly and apparently may not notice any big immediate gains, I do not hesitate to recommend this step because it is my full conviction that if you managed the issues related to electricity, the differences between active components will become more evident, allowing us to do better choices in the future. Today I do not dare to make judgments about many of the gear that passed for me because I admit that I did not hear them in the best conditions for a fair assessment.
    So that my fascination with these magical objects that are fuses is clear, I tell you that the ďsearchĒ will not end here. And notice that the experience, besides the banal ones, already counts on Bussman, AMR, Synergistic Research and now the AHP.

    Will the fuse act as a filter? Most likely.

  6. #156
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    Re: Edís System

    Well, what you are showing a few post back is a din rail mounted fuse holder. If i were to make one, I would come of the main panel via a 20 amp branch circuit breaker, go to a metal box with a din rail in it, or just a fuse block, go through the fuse and out to my audio rack. In short, I am adding a fuse in the middle of my branch circuit with the hope it is doing some sort of filtering I like. I get where you are coming from. I just don't see a way to get away from circuit breakers. Even the main in my panel is a 200 Amp circuit breaker.

    In industrial circumstances I have seen fused panelboards. They are used where very high AIC values are present. They are not inexpensive. A quick look says I would be spending around $4,000 to get a fused panelboard. That price may not include the fuses. That may not even be a switched input with a main fuse protecting the feeder and bus.

    This also would not work in the USA as most all 120 volt branch circuit have to be AFCI protected. I have only seen this technology on a Circuit breaker.

    To truly have a fused system I would need that very expensive industrial fused panelboard. I would need a 200Amp subfeed fuse block to feed a regular CB panelboard and power my house with that. From the industrial fused panel I would use 20 amp fuses to feed my audio rack. Technically they would not be NEC approved as they don't have the AFCI protection required by code. In my mind they would still be safe. I am convinced AFCI breakers are required because the industry lobbied to have stab in terminations in the back of receptacles and switches that don't grip well and arch all the time. Any good audio installation would only have wire under a clamp.

    Another not code legal route would be a Square D QO bolt on CB panelboard. The AFCI CB are maybe $20 each, more expensive than the residential grade AFCI. That adds and additional $600 to an already $1200 set of CB. I could then bolt a ring terminal with a tap conductor and bring it to a fuse block for the audio branch. That would not be NEC approved either but would work and be safe. I still have a 200A Circuit breaker at the input to my panelboard. QO main breaker panelboard is about $600 compared to a residential grade which is about $120. The benefit of the QO panelboard is they have Copper bus. Residential are aluminum bus. Or some blend of metals. They are not copper.

    Come to think of it, I could probably go into any residential panel and tap off the Bus at the bottom where they usually have holes drilled for thru lug applications. From there ring terminal a tap wire to a fuse block and out to the rack. I would not do this type work under my license. It is not code legal. It is pretty safe as I would mount the fuse block in the bottom of the panel so any fire would be contained in the panel. Not that I expect there to ever be one. But hey, anything can be done if you are willing to ignore parts of the code.
    First Sound Mark3SI preamp, Altec Lansing 1570B modded by Transition Audio Design and myself, Mojo Audio CAT Server running Win Server 2016 AO HQ and Roon, Mojo Audio Mystic 3 DAC, Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Custom TT with Vertere Arm, Denon 103R Midas with sapphire cantilever line contact diamond, Allnic H1201 phono pre, Pure Audio Project Trio 10 with performance Solen air core chokes and Mundord Supreme oil caps, Power via 10 awg OFC cord from panel to custom distribution strip, Inakustik speaker and interconnect cables, Genesis Interconnect.

  7. #157

    Re: Edís System

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    In my mind they would still be safe.
    I agree with you that everything should be safe and legal.
    The guy that make the change in my panel says that is safe. Iīm not so sure if it is absolutely ďlegalĒ (technically approved)

    But, just in case...

    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #158
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    Re: Edís System

    Nice Euro panel. Looks like your setup is din rail mounted breakers so that fuse device should just go in your panel. Is your electrical 2 hots per branch. Each one of those breakers opening 2 legs. I see what your guy does not like then. You could blow one fuse and the other leg is still hot.

  9. #159
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    Re: Edís System

    You know, I'm glad its you guys making all these "electrical panel mods" and not me.

    Great quality sound is important, and so are dedicated lines to my room, but I need to admit that that is as far it will go with me. Personally, I'm just not willing to modify breaker panels to this extreme, use "audiophile grade" cabling in wall or in circuit box, adding or subtracting additional grounding potentials, nor muck with UBC code or take risks with components tending to A/C power feeds or subtends.

    I shy away from my own or other "paid professional's" modification and potential fire/shock/grounding hazards that come with mucking around in the demarc.

    Glad you've all found great gains in what you've built, but its simply not for me. Thanks for sharing your findings they do sound interesting.


    Stay safe.
    .

  10. #160
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    Re: Edís System

    Everything I did at Ed's is all NEC complaint and run through my business with my license, bond and Insurance applied to the job. All above board.

    Spocks setup is not NEC in a USA installation. I have no idea about Europe.

  11. #161
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    Re: Edís System

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    Everything I did at Ed's is all NEC complaint and run through my business with my license, bond and Insurance applied to the job. All above board.

    Spocks setup is not NEC in a USA installation. I have no idea about Europe.
    Thanks for your response Rex. I've no doubt that you in particular are doing everything above board and to code requirements! From your posts, there is no doubt you know what you're doing. I just wanted to point out that doing these kinds of modifications are not for the faint of heart.
    .

  12. #162
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    Re: Edís System

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeCh View Post
    Thanks for your response Rex. I've no doubt that you in particular are doing everything above board and to code requirements! From your posts, there is no doubt you know what you're doing. I just wanted to point out that doing these kinds of modifications are not for the faint of heart.
    Thereís no way I would do anything I feel would put my family, home and over $350K in stereo gear in harms way.




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  13. #163
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    Edís System

    I pulled the Pioneer Elite 50" plasma, and put it in the 43s place in my bedroom and moved the 43 to the gym.

    The existing plasma stand was used to mount a 19x32 piece of plywood I painted flat black.

    A couple of brass picture hangars and a piece of weather striping to keep the bottom balanced and seated and voila, the Stillpoints Aperture II are up!

    Totally floats, and is telescopic, with angle adjustment.

    These aperatures truly are an amazing piece that really bring the sound in focus and detail.







    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R with 4point 9 arm & Kuzma 40 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan DíAgostino Momentum Pre Amp and Monos | Boulder Phono 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Valhalla 2/Odin: power, interconnects & speaker | Ansuz: C2 power & interconnect | Audioquest Diamond RJ45ís
    Power: Nordost QRT series | Furutech FP55SN cable from 20 amp breakers to Furutech GTX D NSF packages | Keces P3 & P8 | ADD POWR series | Environmental Potential EP2050
    Other: HRS M3X | Stillpoints Ultra 6, SS & Mini | Nordost Sort Cones TC & BC | AQ Vox SE switch | etherREGEN | Gigafoil v4 | Vicoustics | Audio Desk Systeme - Glšss








  14. #164
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    Re: Edís System

    Ed - Great move! I had Apertures centered behind my Alexias. Made a big difference with imaging and focus.
    _______________

    Mike

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