Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?

[nc42acc]

A good read in todays audio forum times.

Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem? - ecoustics.com

[mep]

That article could have been written in the 1950s save for the talk about on-line audio forums.

[Shadowfax]

Facebook Groups should net be a benchmark for anything.

Aside from the allotted asses on any given forum, I have found most Audiophiles Friendly (here especially) and Helpful even tho I don't live in the same camp as most. Many take the time to explain things and give suggestions, pointers, and criticism both good and bad.

Most women just don't care about the details of Audio, they just want to turn it on and play music. Many of us are very lucky to have partners and wives that hear the differences and appreciate what goes into it all, but that sadly is not the norm. Most men don't care about Shoe Shopping but most women do. Are women ruining things for us?

[CPP]

We have all read these items noted in the article:

A new user asks about a specific product and gets told that it is junk and they need to spend at least double that to get something worthwhile.

A user asks for a comparison of two products and instead gets a litany of suggestions why they should be looking at something else entirely

Users ask basic questions and get answers that border on electrical engineering courses and often include pseudo-science rather than just addressing the question.

Threads get hijacked and become battles between opposing camps (cables, power cords, etc…).


Yep I've seen these examples on other forums, but here at least we have Mike and Mark (MDP) that keep things from going off the rails.

[mulveling]

Facebook groups that cater to too wide a swath of "audiophiles" (and I REALLY strain to call the measurement cartel & DBT junkies "audiophiles") will always be a disaster. The groups that work well are very focused or themed (often brand specific), and tightly moderated to kick out people who are a bad fit. So it only has a problem when you try to connect all the sub-communities and budget stratas into one larger group, or need a way to help newbies navigate which communities are right for them (which is likely to change over time).

[Mike]

I think Audioshark and a couple of others really try to keep things positive and on track. It doesn't mean we can't talk about the nonsense that goes on (I can't wait to comment on the implosion at dCS USA...just waiting for the official press release) and other related topics. But we try to keep it civil. We had a few guys ruffling feathers for political reasons and myself, Mark and Joe felt quite strong about things and took care of it. There are definitely other forums that have nothing but daily pissing contests by inexperienced individuals or ones with a system that looks like it was sourced from Goodwill or better yet, no system at all telling everyone else what they should be doing. And then there is the never ending cables, digital/analog debates. For the one guy who recently said cables don't matter, yes, looking at your system, I would agree.

I do often see someone will ask about going with amp A or amp B and always (myself included!) will comment on considering something else. It's not because A or B aren't good choices, but just to be sure they consider everything. You know what, many times they haven't and welcome the suggestions, although, often it just leads to mental paralysis and they end up buying nothing.

Regarding Porsche, I guess the author hasn't spent much time on Rennlist or any of the Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, etc. forums or Facebook pages. Just this morning, some young buck was going on about how the Corvette C8 (not Z06) was a Ferrari 488 killer. Within a few minutes, a guy posted a picture of his 488 next to his C8 and laid into the guy. I remember his closing comment: "the 488 is like a super model for Victoria Secret. The C8 is like a model for Kohls." This is on the C8 forum. I post pictures of my GT4 on the Porsche forum and I will get "it will always be looking up to a GT3" comments all day long. If I'm being honest, I agree. So yes, it can get pretty nasty.

Regarding women in HiFi, I can honestly say, that most of the ladies we have dealt with, have been very difficult. I think they are expecting to walk in and see that "75% off" sticker all around the store. This isn't Zales. Skinny Mike and I spent over TWO YEARS going around and around and around with this one particular lady. She insisted repeatedly we come in on Saturday's to demo this or that for her. She bought nothing. She wanted the $50,000 system for $10,000. No matter how many times we went around and around with her, she just didn't understand. We then had to listen to how she had been to every audio store in Florida. In fact, she is quite well known to most of the dealers and yes we all agree she wasted ALL of our time. I have no issue with women in hifi, but realize, these are big boy toys you're wanting and they come with the big boy price.

The pandemic has given people more online time I'm sure of it and these comments have just accelerated, but as Mark said, it's not new. I remember reading some very colorful letters to the editor decades ago.

[Dizzie]

Criminy Mike. Find something in the store you have not been able to sell and want gone. Put a huge price on it then knock it down 70%. Two problems solved.

[mep]

Marty posted the exact same thread on World Boxing Federation and the replies are interesting. It didn't take long before rocks and bricks were thrown.

[Mike]

Marty posted the exact same thread on World Boxing Federation and the replies are interesting. It didn't take long before rocks and bricks to be thrown.

No surprise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[nc42acc]

And why is it that all forums have become virtual WWE fighting matches? We have people wanting to fight at audio shows all because of varying opinions on audio gear. My god what have we become?

No surprise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[nc42acc]

Mark does this not show the meaning of the article? Cannot post anything anywhere without a fight. Should I post it at ASR and see if I get a bounty put on my head?

Marty posted the exact same thread on World Boxing Federation and the replies are interesting. It didn't take long before rocks and bricks were thrown.

[nc42acc]

Mark why the derogatory comment about WBF? Is this not perpetuating the forum infighting?

Marty posted the exact same thread on World Boxing Federation and the replies are interesting. It didn't take long before rocks and bricks were thrown.

[Mike]

And why is it that all forums have become virtual WWE fighting matches? We have people wanting to fight at audio shows all because of varying opinions on audio gear. My god what have we become?

Some forums seem to encourage this type of behavior or at a minimum tolerate it for increased views. I’m surprised some can’t see this, especially ones promoting direct advertising.

Other forums take the position that the constant bickering and back stabbing of other members won’t be tolerated and isn’t good in the long run. Don’t we get enough of that in our normal lives and social media apps?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[nc42acc]

Thanks Mike for maintaining a reasonable level of civility here on AudioShark. I believe you are the one and only moderator here correct?

Some forums seem to encourage this type of behavior or at a minimum tolerate it for increased views. I’m surprised some can’t see this, especially ones promoting direct advertising.

Other forums take the position that the constant bickering and back stabbing of other members won’t be tolerated and isn’t good in the long run. Don’t we get enough of that in our normal lives and social media apps?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Mike]

Thanks Mike for maintaining a reasonable level of civility here on AudioShark. I believe you are the one and only moderator here correct?

Thank you. No, MDP and joeinid are the moderators.

Joe uses a kid gloves approach.

Mark uses a hammer.

It all depends on what approach they feel is needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[nc42acc]

I guess that speaks volumes when members don’t really know who the moderators are!

Thank you. No, MDP and joeinid are the moderators.

Joe uses a kid gloves approach.

Mark uses a hammer.

It all depends on what approach they feel is needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[mep]

Marty-Why did you expect anything less would happen when you posted the same thread on WBF? And now you apologized to Ron for starting the thread and you question why I jokingly refer to WBF as the World Boxing Federation. You didn't have your fingers off the keyboard before the guns and knives came out from the loving members of WBF on your thread.

[Randy Myers]

Far too many people have Internet balls... post ridiculous things that they would never say to your face. Yes, we have all had a scuffle or two, but most of us try to have reasonable comments... more importantly, very rarely have I seen a comment here that the poster would not say to the person's face... a bit different then many forums out there.

Mike, Joe, and Mark do a great job keeping things civil around here!

[nc42acc]

I didn’t think it would spark a war Mark but now I know better.

Marty-Why did you expect anything less would happen when you posted the same thread on WBF? And now you apologized to Ron for starting the thread and you question why I jokingly refer to WBF as the World Boxing Federation. You didn't have your fingers off the keyboard before the guns and knives came out from the loving members of WBF on your thread.

[Mikado463]

And why is it that all forums have become virtual WWE fighting matches? We have people wanting to fight at audio shows all because of varying opinions on audio gear. My god what have we become?

Marty, the whole damn world is upside down right now. I think it's fair to say that most here are thankful for what they have, most importantly health, family, friends and the good music we can escape to............

[KeithR]

Marty posted the exact same thread on World Boxing Federation and the replies are interesting. It didn't take long before rocks and bricks were thrown.

Apparently enough interest for you to keep stalking another forum.

[KeithR]

And why is it that all forums have become virtual WWE fighting matches? We have people wanting to fight at audio shows all because of varying opinions on audio gear. My god what have we become?

They always have been. See the obj vs subj debates on Audioreview.com circa 2000.

[NorthStar]

Marty, the whole damn world is upside down right now. I think it's fair to say that most here are thankful for what they have, most importantly health, family, friends and the good music we can escape to............

One good voice of reason ^

* It's all about the music in us. The gear is secondary, no contest.
The guy behind the one million stereo hi-fi sound system is not better than the one behind the $10,000 one. It's not what we have, it's who we are ... that matters ... the music.

[NorthStar]

They always have been. See the obj vs subj debates on Audioreview.com circa 2000.

I agree; it's the color of the beast since the beginning of the universe (big bang).

[Shadowfax]

They always have been. See the obj vs subj debates on Audioreview.com circa 2000.

I was there.

The Cable Forum was insane, but also fun if you had a sense of humor. I shortly moved over to the Rave Recordings Forum and my music library grow by a few hundred disks.

[mep]

Apparently enough interest for you to keep stalking another forum.

Since when has reading an on-line forum turned into stalking?

[AJ Soundfield]

We have people wanting to fight at audio shows all because of varying opinions on audio gear.

Yeah but that was over turntables. If throwing shade at a man's turntable isn't worth fighting over, what is?

[a.wayne]

[bzr]

Marks'/mdp a snapping turtle...

[Mr Peabody]

LOL, not fair.

One of the first forums I joined. I did get into a few hot debates there. Goes to show if the forums aren't regulated anyone new can come to think bad behavior is the norm. The site got ate up by spam and still is from the last look I had. I show to be banned but that was a surprise to me. I had over 10k posts so why would I suddenly begin to spam. Anyway a few of us landed here and some on FB. I never met Brian in person but known him online for many years. Same with Jack.

I also grew and changed gear while there. I was the first one to have a Pass amp and eventually several of the members followed by purchasing Pass. That's how Larry got on that direction, can't forget he is another refugee from AR. I did get to meet him at AXPONA one year and a bunch of us stayed until closing at an Italian restaurant in downtown Chicago.

They always have been. See the obj vs subj debates on Audioreview.com circa 2000.

[brad225]

Until I looked at the license plates I thought Mike was showing us another 2 garage spaces Santa filled for him this year.

I went from being excited to "yea I agree with what he said". Not that that wasn't moving Mike, just not your 2 pretty cars.

[Mike]

Until I looked at the license plates I thought Mike was showing us another 2 garage spaces Santa filled for him this year.

I went from being excited to "yea I agree with what he said". Not that that wasn't moving Mike, just not your 2 pretty cars.

I would sure like the red one! I find it interesting that Ferrari is now offering 7 years free maintenance on new cars. Looks like they’ve tackled the biggest complaint about Ferrari ownership right on the nose.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[nicoff]

Question: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
No, it does not have a problem. Let’s see…

Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.
Genre: too many males and too few females.
Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).
Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.
Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).
Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').
Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.

So no, the audiophile community does not have a problem. It has MANY problems!

[mep]

Question: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
No, it does not have a problem. Let’s see…

Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.
Genre: too many males and too few females.
Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).
Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.
Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).
Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').
Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.

So no, the audiophile community does not have a problem. It has MANY problems!

So how does any of the things you said affect your personally or professionally? How many of the "problems" you listed have been around since this hobby started?

[Mikado463]

So how does any of the things you said affect your personally or professionally? How many of the "problems" you listed have been around since this hobby started?

the majority have only been around since the internet began IMO. Regardless, I get your point as I do nic's as well.

[mep]

the majority have only been around since the internet began IMO. Regardless, I get your point as I do nic's as well.

I totally disagree that the majority of the issues listed have only been around since the internet began. Old audiophiles didn't start with the internet. The male dominance of the audio hobby didn't start with the internet. Prior to the internet, people used to respond to magazine reviews by writing letters to the editors to express their agreement or disagreement. The internet just cut down the lag time between reviews and comments. People's choices in music didn't start with the internet. Science skeptics didn't start with the internet. People believing or not believing in reviews didn't start with the internet. Last but not least, people having goals for their systems didn't start with the internet.

[Mike]

Question: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
No, it does not have a problem. Let’s see…

Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.
Genre: too many males and too few females.
Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).
Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.
Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).
Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').
Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.

So no, the audiophile community does not have a problem. It has MANY problems!

I don’t disagree, but would like to comment on a few items.

Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.

Perhaps, but the headphone gang which currently represents a 10x multiple of the two channel audio business.

The younger generation engages and interacts in a much different manner than we did.

So, should we not be welcoming all these young vloggers? Agree with them, disagree with them, watch them, don’t watch them, but guess what? They are using the medium which will and does bring the younger folks into the hobby. Do you think 20 somethings are reading magazines with pages and pages of measurements? Ha! Not a chance.

Genre: too many males and too few females.

This could be said for so many things in our lives. I’ve played hockey for 49 years and still play 3 times a week. In 3 leagues full of 12-16 teams each, we have about 3 women total. I will say this, two of the most talented women I ever played with was a top player from the University of Michigan. The other is currently the only female Zamboni driver in the NHL (for the Tampa Bay Lightning). See: NHL's only woman Zamboni driver is a smooth operator

Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).

Yes, that was wrong and addressed. On other sites, the ones that sell advertising space directly, remember this: clicks = cash. The train wrecks are good for the pocket book.

Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.

Amen. I hate listening to the bing-bing BS audiophile recordings as much as anyone.

Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).

Because measurements only tell half the story. But the debate between meter readers and golden ears goes back a long long way. I doubt it will ever change.

Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').

True. Always evaluate for yourself.

Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.

Oh boy, I could tell you stories. Again, I agree. I want a system that can play my old jazz records to my hippy music to my R&B and classic rock and everything in between.

In conclusion, the industry is evolving. It’s changing. It has been very slow to adapt to the shrinking world. Some still value geography over hard work and relationships, but it’s changing. The old guard is retiring or dying. The cliques that once seemed like a good idea, have been imploding left, right and center and those in the cliques that snubbed the new, the bright and the brilliant are now left standing alone in the corner. Today, the amount of quality brands has truly leveled the playing field, not unlike the car industry. You rarely hear about the “Big 3” anymore do you? Today it’s all about EV’s. Also, digital has evolved so much, even in the past 10 years, it’s just incredible.

The future is bright ladies and gentlemen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Mr Peabody]

Question: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
No, it does not have a problem. Let’s see…

*> first off, who is the "audiophile community, you make some stereotypical generalizations

Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.
**> Most young people don't have the expendable income to buy expensive audio gear and who says a young person isn't an audiophile with a decent entry level system. I submit audiophile is a state of mind and passion.

Genre: too many males and too few females.
**> who dictates what the correct ratio should be? Not so many women auto race, not so many men in the knitting circle, maybe it's just one of those things. If you are looking to date maybe try online dating

Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).
**> We should show restraint and respect. On the other hand some here seem to take every opportunity to agitate by trying to belittle others opinions on audio, maybe this sounds familiar to you.

Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.
**> conjecture, an absolute statement based on your opinion and no fact.

Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).
**> again, more wild accusations based on nothing but your opinion and contempt. Actually I'd say the opposite, most realize we begin with measurements. However, people like you fail to accept not everything, can, be measured and don't accept humans have a brain and sensitive not fully explored sense of hearing. Reviewers and audiophiles can only try to convey what they experience with the adjectives available. How do you explain red to a blind person who has never seen?

Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').
**> Just another generalization meant to inflame. When it comes down to it if you haven't tried green markers or other tweaks you find ridiculous how can you be certain your position is correct? If someone has tried it and it worked for them you can see how silly your statement is. And, how do you think it makes someone feel when you basically call them crazy by claiming it's imagination or we don't know anything but you are all knowing?

Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.
**> So what? What is the correct goal and who dictates that? Is it because the person who would do that don't meet your personal definition of "audiophile"? Are you the one who makes the rules? again, astatement you made based on nothing but your perceptions, or jealousies


So no, the audiophile community does not have a problem. It has MANY problems!

Ask yourself if your attitude helps or hinders the "audiophile" community.

[Randy Myers]

I don’t disagree, but would like to comment on a few items.

Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.

Perhaps, but the headphone gang which currently represents a 10x multiple of the two channel audio business.

The younger generation engages and interacts in a much different manner than we did.

So, should we not be welcoming all these young vloggers? Agree with them, disagree with them, watch them, don’t watch them, but guess what? They are using the medium which will and does bring the younger folks into the hobby. Do you think 20 somethings are reading magazines with pages and pages of measurements? Ha! Not a chance.

Genre: too many males and too few females.

This could be said for so many things in our lives. I’ve played hockey for 49 years and still play 3 times a week. In 3 leagues full of 12-16 teams each, we have about 3 women total. I will say this, two of the most talented women I ever played with was a top player from the University of Michigan. The other is currently the only female Zamboni driver in the NHL (for the Tampa Bay Lightning). See: NHL's only woman Zamboni driver is a smooth operator

Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).

Yes, that was wrong and addressed. On other sites, the ones that sell advertising space directly, remember this: clicks = cash. The train wrecks are good for the pocket book.

Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.

Amen. I hate listening to the bing-bing BS audiophile recordings as much as anyone.

Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).

Because measurements only tell half the story. But the debate between meter readers and golden ears goes back a long long way. I doubt it will ever change.

Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').

True. Always evaluate for yourself.

Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.

Oh boy, I could tell you stories. Again, I agree. I want a system that can play my old jazz records to my hippy music to my R&B and classic rock and everything in between.

In conclusion, the industry is evolving. It’s changing. It has been very slow to adapt to the shrinking world. Some still value geography over hard work and relationships, but it’s changing. The old guard is retiring or dying. The cliques that once seemed like a good idea, have been imploding left, right and center and those in the cliques that snubbed the new, the bright and the brilliant are now left standing alone in the corner. Today, the amount of quality brands has truly leveled the playing field, not unlike the car industry. You rarely hear about the “Big 3” anymore do you? Today it’s all about EV’s. Also, digital has evolved so much, even in the past 10 years, it’s just incredible.

The future is bright ladies and gentlemen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I agree 98% with Mike with only one additional. The Internet has added one thing that I believe is very negative. The Internet has added Internet Balls, where people believe it is ok to say things and make comments that they would never do in person face to face....

Thank God for a forum such as The Shark having quality moderators that are able to keep much/most of this in check!

[puroagave]

That article could have been written in the 1950s save for the talk about on-line audio forums.

Very true. When I entered high-end audio in a serious way it was the '80s and I was in my twenties. Back then I was the youngest guy in the room (by far) be it an audio society meeting, dealer open houses or CES. Salesmen still quoted magazine writers. There were subjectivist and objectivist and mostly high-quality recordings of shitty music were demoed. Fast forward to today and what's changed are forums, internet 'boards and the rise of e-commerce and micro brands. Those cos. no one ever heard of except for word of mouth over the 'web.

As for the lack of females, its well established in psychology that a substantial majority of women are into people and men are into things. Looking at a bell curve its 80/20 and at the extremes you get guys that don't know shit about guy-stuff like cars, tools, audio gear, etc. and gals that are totally into it. IMO, ladies like Jana Dagdagan are rare, unicorns even: Jana's story, the long and winding road to a career in the audio biz - YouTube

[mep]

I enjoyed your observations Rob and I totally agree.

[Mikado463]

Very true. When I entered high-end audio in a serious way it was the '80s and I was in my twenties. Back then I was the youngest guy in the room (by far) be it an audio society meeting, dealer open houses or CES. Salesmen still quoted magazine writers. There were subjectivist and objectivist and mostly high-quality recordings of shitty music were demoed. Fast forward to today and what's changed are forums, internet 'boards and the rise of e-commerce and micro brands. Those cos. no one ever heard of except for word of mouth over the 'web.

As for the lack of females, its well established in psychology that a substantial majority of women are into people and men are into things. Looking at a bell curve its 80/20 and at the extremes you get guys that don't know shit about guy-stuff like cars, tools, audio gear, etc. and gals that are totally into it. IMO, ladies like Jana Dagdagan are rare, unicorns even: Jana's story, the long and winding road to a career in the audio biz - YouTube

Good points, can't argue even though I got 10 years on you. I for one think the '80/20' rule of life bears out just about everywhere......

[puroagave]

Good points, can't argue even though I got 10 years on you. I for one think the '80/20' rule of life bears out just about everywhere......

Yes! aka the Pareto distribution.

[Spock]

Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.

Because i don´t agree, i wrote this

Nenad vasilic - bassroom

[rbbert]

It doesn't help things when one of the two major remaining print magazines devoted to high-end audio persists in publishing idiotic opinions and questionable "facts". TAS reviewed George Harrison's ATMP 50th Anniversary Edition, and despite dynamic compression of more than 6 dB compared to the 2010 HDTracks release (long since withdrawn from sale) the reviewer claimed that this was how the album was meant to be heard. And the review of the Luxman D-10X, a very good SACD/CD player (with a fair amount of competition in this category), claimed that "it will play virtually any 2-channel audio only disc", despite being unable to play DVD-A, audio only DVD-V or Bluray Audio (all of which have 2-channel audio, some only 2-channel audio). How is that different than any other SACD/CD player? A few years back one of their reviewers claimed that a hi-res album from QoBuz sounded better than the same album from HDTracks; almost immediately a number of posters on the SHForums posted results of AudioDiffMaker comparisons of the 2 filesets (they were bit-for-bit identical, including "timing"), although I am unaware of TAS ever acknowledging this.

[Rnrmf]

It doesn't help things when one of the two major remaining print magazines devoted to high-end audio persists in publishing idiotic opinions and questionable "facts". TAS reviewed George Harrison's ATMP 50th Anniversary Edition, and despite dynamic compression of more than 6 dB compared to the 2010 HDTracks release (long since withdrawn from sale) the reviewer claimed that this was how the album was meant to be heard. And the review of the Luxman D-10X, a very good SACD/CD player (with a fair amount of competition in this category), claimed that "it will play virtually any 2-channel audio only disc", despite being unable to play DVD-A, audio only DVD-V or Bluray Audio (all of which have 2-channel audio, some only 2-channel audio). How is that different than any other SACD/CD player? A few years back one of their reviewers claimed that a hi-res album from QoBuz sounded better than the same album from HDTracks; almost immediately a number of posters on the SHForums posted results of AudioDiffMaker comparisons of the 2 filesets (they were bit-for-bit identical, including "timing"), although I am unaware of TAS ever acknowledging this.

With regard to the Luxman, DVDA and DVDV discs both have video content and aren't "audio-only." I've already forgotten if all blu ray audio discs have a video menu because I haven't played one in awhile. So while I may concede the absence of blu ray audio which would otherwise be welcome, it does play the newest format of the last 5 years, MQA encoded compact discs. It obviously lacks hdcd decoding capability, though.

[Mechnutt]

Far too many people have Internet balls... post ridiculous things that they would never say to your face. Yes, we have all had a scuffle or two, but most of us try to have reasonable comments... more importantly, very rarely have I seen a comment here that the poster would not say to the person's face... a bit different then many forums out there.

Mike, Joe, and Mark do a great job keeping things civil around here!

Spot on Randy.

[rbbert]

With regard to the Luxman, DVDA and DVDV discs both have video content and aren't "audio-only."

Strange, because I have quite a number of DVD-A's without video content (in fact I don't have any with video content) as well as a few audio only DVD-V's (Classic Records released a bunch in the 1990's). Also, while most Naxos Bluray Audio discs are multi-channel, some are 2-channel only (and all are without video content). BD Audio can play directly from the player's remote control, no menu required. Each of those formats has more titles than MQA CD. There are also hundreds (perhaps thousands) of HDCD titles out there.

I'm still unclear on what differentiates the Luxman (in terms of disc format playability) from all the other SACD/CD players on the market. Sorry, I don't consider MQA-CD to be meaningful, especially since anyone who cares about MQA will almost certainly stream the slightly better sounding versions of those albums on Tidal.

[CPP]

"" The Internet has added Internet Balls, where people believe it is ok to say things and make comments that they would never do in person face to face....""

Got to agree Randy, seen it happen a lot and what's a hoot is meeting these people later on and after you bring up that conversation, they always come back, "ah, I was just fooling with ya " , or "didn't mean it", or " its the internet", whatever the hell that means.

[W9TR]

I agree 98% with Mike with only one additional. The Internet has added one thing that I believe is very negative. The Internet has added Internet Balls, where people believe it is ok to say things and make comments that they would never do in person face to face....

Thank God for a forum such as The Shark having quality moderators that are able to keep much/most of this in check!

Trouble starts at the intersection of anonymity and boredom. The internet provides both in spades. It started in the days of alt.rec.audio and hasn’t abated since.