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December 14, 2021, 10:24 AM #1
Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
A good read in todays audio forum times.
Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem? - ecoustics.comMarty
Aurender N20 / SonicTransporter i7 / Roon
MSB Premier
Constellation Inspiration Preamp 1.0 / Mono 1.0
Dynaudio Confidence 50 / SVS SB13 Ultra
PS Audio Powerplant 15
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December 14, 2021, 11:01 AM #2
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
That article could have been written in the 1950s save for the talk about on-line audio forums.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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December 14, 2021, 11:21 AM #3
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Facebook Groups should net be a benchmark for anything.
Aside from the allotted asses on any given forum, I have found most Audiophiles Friendly (here especially) and Helpful even tho I don't live in the same camp as most. Many take the time to explain things and give suggestions, pointers, and criticism both good and bad.
Most women just don't care about the details of Audio, they just want to turn it on and play music. Many of us are very lucky to have partners and wives that hear the differences and appreciate what goes into it all, but that sadly is not the norm. Most men don't care about Shoe Shopping but most women do. Are women ruining things for us?-----------------
Brian
Main System - Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables
Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables
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December 14, 2021, 11:26 AM #4
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
We have all read these items noted in the article:
A new user asks about a specific product and gets told that it is junk and they need to spend at least double that to get something worthwhile.
A user asks for a comparison of two products and instead gets a litany of suggestions why they should be looking at something else entirely
Users ask basic questions and get answers that border on electrical engineering courses and often include pseudo-science rather than just addressing the question.
Threads get hijacked and become battles between opposing camps (cables, power cords, etc…).
Yep I've seen these examples on other forums, but here at least we have Mike and Mark (MDP) that keep things from going off the rails.2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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December 14, 2021, 12:46 PM #5
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 227
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Facebook groups that cater to too wide a swath of "audiophiles" (and I REALLY strain to call the measurement cartel & DBT junkies "audiophiles") will always be a disaster. The groups that work well are very focused or themed (often brand specific), and tightly moderated to kick out people who are a bad fit. So it only has a problem when you try to connect all the sub-communities and budget stratas into one larger group, or need a way to help newbies navigate which communities are right for them (which is likely to change over time).
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December 14, 2021, 12:56 PM #6
Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
I think Audioshark and a couple of others really try to keep things positive and on track. It doesn't mean we can't talk about the nonsense that goes on (I can't wait to comment on the implosion at dCS USA...just waiting for the official press release) and other related topics. But we try to keep it civil. We had a few guys ruffling feathers for political reasons and myself, Mark and Joe felt quite strong about things and took care of it. There are definitely other forums that have nothing but daily pissing contests by inexperienced individuals or ones with a system that looks like it was sourced from Goodwill or better yet, no system at all telling everyone else what they should be doing. And then there is the never ending cables, digital/analog debates. For the one guy who recently said cables don't matter, yes, looking at your system, I would agree.
I do often see someone will ask about going with amp A or amp B and always (myself included!) will comment on considering something else. It's not because A or B aren't good choices, but just to be sure they consider everything. You know what, many times they haven't and welcome the suggestions, although, often it just leads to mental paralysis and they end up buying nothing.
Regarding Porsche, I guess the author hasn't spent much time on Rennlist or any of the Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, etc. forums or Facebook pages. Just this morning, some young buck was going on about how the Corvette C8 (not Z06) was a Ferrari 488 killer. Within a few minutes, a guy posted a picture of his 488 next to his C8 and laid into the guy. I remember his closing comment: "the 488 is like a super model for Victoria Secret. The C8 is like a model for Kohls." This is on the C8 forum. I post pictures of my GT4 on the Porsche forum and I will get "it will always be looking up to a GT3" comments all day long. If I'm being honest, I agree. So yes, it can get pretty nasty.
Regarding women in HiFi, I can honestly say, that most of the ladies we have dealt with, have been very difficult. I think they are expecting to walk in and see that "75% off" sticker all around the store. This isn't Zales. Skinny Mike and I spent over TWO YEARS going around and around and around with this one particular lady. She insisted repeatedly we come in on Saturday's to demo this or that for her. She bought nothing. She wanted the $50,000 system for $10,000. No matter how many times we went around and around with her, she just didn't understand. We then had to listen to how she had been to every audio store in Florida. In fact, she is quite well known to most of the dealers and yes we all agree she wasted ALL of our time. I have no issue with women in hifi, but realize, these are big boy toys you're wanting and they come with the big boy price.
The pandemic has given people more online time I'm sure of it and these comments have just accelerated, but as Mark said, it's not new. I remember reading some very colorful letters to the editor decades ago.
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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December 14, 2021, 01:06 PM #7
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
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- 1,129
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Criminy Mike. Find something in the store you have not been able to sell and want gone. Put a huge price on it then knock it down 70%. Two problems solved.
Contributor to stereotimes.com
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December 14, 2021, 02:28 PM #8
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Marty posted the exact same thread on World Boxing Federation and the replies are interesting. It didn't take long before rocks and bricks were thrown.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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December 14, 2021, 02:29 PM #9
Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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December 14, 2021, 03:30 PM #10
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Marty
Aurender N20 / SonicTransporter i7 / Roon
MSB Premier
Constellation Inspiration Preamp 1.0 / Mono 1.0
Dynaudio Confidence 50 / SVS SB13 Ultra
PS Audio Powerplant 15
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December 14, 2021, 03:33 PM #11
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Marty
Aurender N20 / SonicTransporter i7 / Roon
MSB Premier
Constellation Inspiration Preamp 1.0 / Mono 1.0
Dynaudio Confidence 50 / SVS SB13 Ultra
PS Audio Powerplant 15
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December 14, 2021, 03:39 PM #12
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Marty
Aurender N20 / SonicTransporter i7 / Roon
MSB Premier
Constellation Inspiration Preamp 1.0 / Mono 1.0
Dynaudio Confidence 50 / SVS SB13 Ultra
PS Audio Powerplant 15
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December 14, 2021, 03:51 PM #13
Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Some forums seem to encourage this type of behavior or at a minimum tolerate it for increased views. I’m surprised some can’t see this, especially ones promoting direct advertising.
Other forums take the position that the constant bickering and back stabbing of other members won’t be tolerated and isn’t good in the long run. Don’t we get enough of that in our normal lives and social media apps?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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December 14, 2021, 03:55 PM #14
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Marty
Aurender N20 / SonicTransporter i7 / Roon
MSB Premier
Constellation Inspiration Preamp 1.0 / Mono 1.0
Dynaudio Confidence 50 / SVS SB13 Ultra
PS Audio Powerplant 15
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December 14, 2021, 03:59 PM #15
Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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December 14, 2021, 04:04 PM #16
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Marty
Aurender N20 / SonicTransporter i7 / Roon
MSB Premier
Constellation Inspiration Preamp 1.0 / Mono 1.0
Dynaudio Confidence 50 / SVS SB13 Ultra
PS Audio Powerplant 15
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December 14, 2021, 04:25 PM #17
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Marty-Why did you expect anything less would happen when you posted the same thread on WBF? And now you apologized to Ron for starting the thread and you question why I jokingly refer to WBF as the World Boxing Federation. You didn't have your fingers off the keyboard before the guns and knives came out from the loving members of WBF on your thread.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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December 14, 2021, 04:48 PM #18
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Far too many people have Internet balls... post ridiculous things that they would never say to your face. Yes, we have all had a scuffle or two, but most of us try to have reasonable comments... more importantly, very rarely have I seen a comment here that the poster would not say to the person's face... a bit different then many forums out there.
Mike, Joe, and Mark do a great job keeping things civil around here!McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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December 14, 2021, 05:05 PM #19
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Marty
Aurender N20 / SonicTransporter i7 / Roon
MSB Premier
Constellation Inspiration Preamp 1.0 / Mono 1.0
Dynaudio Confidence 50 / SVS SB13 Ultra
PS Audio Powerplant 15
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December 14, 2021, 05:45 PM #20
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Cheers ! …. Dave
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December 14, 2021, 08:40 PM #21
- Join Date
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December 14, 2021, 08:43 PM #22
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December 14, 2021, 09:28 PM #23
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
One good voice of reason ^
* It's all about the music in us. The gear is secondary, no contest.
The guy behind the one million stereo hi-fi sound system is not better than the one behind the $10,000 one. It's not what we have, it's who we are ... that matters ... the music.~ Bob ~
"And it Stoned me to my Soul" • Van Morrison
Click ♪ Audiophile Audition
Snoopy as the Red Baron attack
Avatar = The Alan Parsons Project - Eye in the Sky (1982 - orbiting)
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December 14, 2021, 09:31 PM #24
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
~ Bob ~
"And it Stoned me to my Soul" • Van Morrison
Click ♪ Audiophile Audition
Snoopy as the Red Baron attack
Avatar = The Alan Parsons Project - Eye in the Sky (1982 - orbiting)
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December 14, 2021, 09:45 PM #25
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
-----------------
Brian
Main System - Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables
Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables
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December 15, 2021, 11:12 AM #26
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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December 15, 2021, 07:42 PM #27
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
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December 15, 2021, 07:54 PM #28
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
* An Audiophile is only as old as his latest Class D incarnation *
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December 16, 2021, 03:12 AM #29
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Marks'/mdp a snapping turtle...
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December 16, 2021, 12:00 PM #30
- Join Date
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- St. Louis, MO, USA
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- 3,074
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
LOL, not fair.
One of the first forums I joined. I did get into a few hot debates there. Goes to show if the forums aren't regulated anyone new can come to think bad behavior is the norm. The site got ate up by spam and still is from the last look I had. I show to be banned but that was a surprise to me. I had over 10k posts so why would I suddenly begin to spam. Anyway a few of us landed here and some on FB. I never met Brian in person but known him online for many years. Same with Jack.
I also grew and changed gear while there. I was the first one to have a Pass amp and eventually several of the members followed by purchasing Pass. That's how Larry got on that direction, can't forget he is another refugee from AR. I did get to meet him at AXPONA one year and a bunch of us stayed until closing at an Italian restaurant in downtown Chicago.
Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables
HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
SVS PC13 Ultra
Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer
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December 16, 2021, 06:50 PM #31
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Synology 1019D+ - SGC Sonictransporter I9 w Roon/HQ Player- UltraRendu- PBD Stream IF to Playback Designs MPS5 via fiber optic - ARC 40th Anniversary Pre - ARC 610 T's - Martin Logan CLX's - 4 Martin Logan Depth i Subs - Shunyata Hydra, DIY PCOCC interconnects, speaker cables and power cords with Furutech terminations. Blue Jean CAT 6's between front end equipment.
LHY FMC and Corning Fiber to rebuilt LHY SW-6 switch in listening room.
Acoustically treated room with one permanent chair.
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December 17, 2021, 09:10 AM #32
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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December 17, 2021, 09:54 AM #33
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
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- 2,104
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Question: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
No, it does not have a problem. Let’s see…
Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.
Genre: too many males and too few females.
Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).
Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.
Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).
Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').
Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.
So no, the audiophile community does not have a problem. It has MANY problems!
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December 17, 2021, 10:17 AM #34
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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December 17, 2021, 10:48 AM #35
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December 17, 2021, 11:10 AM #36
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
I totally disagree that the majority of the issues listed have only been around since the internet began. Old audiophiles didn't start with the internet. The male dominance of the audio hobby didn't start with the internet. Prior to the internet, people used to respond to magazine reviews by writing letters to the editors to express their agreement or disagreement. The internet just cut down the lag time between reviews and comments. People's choices in music didn't start with the internet. Science skeptics didn't start with the internet. People believing or not believing in reviews didn't start with the internet. Last but not least, people having goals for their systems didn't start with the internet.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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December 17, 2021, 11:15 AM #37
Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
I don’t disagree, but would like to comment on a few items.
Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.
Perhaps, but the headphone gang which currently represents a 10x multiple of the two channel audio business.
The younger generation engages and interacts in a much different manner than we did.
So, should we not be welcoming all these young vloggers? Agree with them, disagree with them, watch them, don’t watch them, but guess what? They are using the medium which will and does bring the younger folks into the hobby. Do you think 20 somethings are reading magazines with pages and pages of measurements? Ha! Not a chance.
Genre: too many males and too few females.
This could be said for so many things in our lives. I’ve played hockey for 49 years and still play 3 times a week. In 3 leagues full of 12-16 teams each, we have about 3 women total. I will say this, two of the most talented women I ever played with was a top player from the University of Michigan. The other is currently the only female Zamboni driver in the NHL (for the Tampa Bay Lightning). See: NHL's only woman Zamboni driver is a smooth operator
Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).
Yes, that was wrong and addressed. On other sites, the ones that sell advertising space directly, remember this: clicks = cash. The train wrecks are good for the pocket book.
Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.
Amen. I hate listening to the bing-bing BS audiophile recordings as much as anyone.
Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).
Because measurements only tell half the story. But the debate between meter readers and golden ears goes back a long long way. I doubt it will ever change.
Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').
True. Always evaluate for yourself.
Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.
Oh boy, I could tell you stories. Again, I agree. I want a system that can play my old jazz records to my hippy music to my R&B and classic rock and everything in between.
In conclusion, the industry is evolving. It’s changing. It has been very slow to adapt to the shrinking world. Some still value geography over hard work and relationships, but it’s changing. The old guard is retiring or dying. The cliques that once seemed like a good idea, have been imploding left, right and center and those in the cliques that snubbed the new, the bright and the brilliant are now left standing alone in the corner. Today, the amount of quality brands has truly leveled the playing field, not unlike the car industry. You rarely hear about the “Big 3” anymore do you? Today it’s all about EV’s. Also, digital has evolved so much, even in the past 10 years, it’s just incredible.
The future is bright ladies and gentlemen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
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December 17, 2021, 12:08 PM #38
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
- Location
- St. Louis, MO, USA
- Posts
- 3,074
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables
HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
SVS PC13 Ultra
Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer
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December 17, 2021, 12:11 PM #39
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
I agree 98% with Mike with only one additional. The Internet has added one thing that I believe is very negative. The Internet has added Internet Balls, where people believe it is ok to say things and make comments that they would never do in person face to face....
Thank God for a forum such as The Shark having quality moderators that are able to keep much/most of this in check!McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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December 17, 2021, 02:25 PM #40
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Very true. When I entered high-end audio in a serious way it was the '80s and I was in my twenties. Back then I was the youngest guy in the room (by far) be it an audio society meeting, dealer open houses or CES. Salesmen still quoted magazine writers. There were subjectivist and objectivist and mostly high-quality recordings of shitty music were demoed. Fast forward to today and what's changed are forums, internet 'boards and the rise of e-commerce and micro brands. Those cos. no one ever heard of except for word of mouth over the 'web.
As for the lack of females, its well established in psychology that a substantial majority of women are into people and men are into things. Looking at a bell curve its 80/20 and at the extremes you get guys that don't know shit about guy-stuff like cars, tools, audio gear, etc. and gals that are totally into it. IMO, ladies like Jana Dagdagan are rare, unicorns even: Jana's story, the long and winding road to a career in the audio biz - YouTube
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December 17, 2021, 02:47 PM #41
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
I enjoyed your observations Rob and I totally agree.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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December 17, 2021, 03:03 PM #42
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December 17, 2021, 03:06 PM #43
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December 17, 2021, 07:20 PM #44
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Posts
- 588
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Because i don´t agree, i wrote this
Nenad vasilic - bassroom
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December 17, 2021, 07:48 PM #45
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
It doesn't help things when one of the two major remaining print magazines devoted to high-end audio persists in publishing idiotic opinions and questionable "facts". TAS reviewed George Harrison's ATMP 50th Anniversary Edition, and despite dynamic compression of more than 6 dB compared to the 2010 HDTracks release (long since withdrawn from sale) the reviewer claimed that this was how the album was meant to be heard. And the review of the Luxman D-10X, a very good SACD/CD player (with a fair amount of competition in this category), claimed that "it will play virtually any 2-channel audio only disc", despite being unable to play DVD-A, audio only DVD-V or Bluray Audio (all of which have 2-channel audio, some only 2-channel audio). How is that different than any other SACD/CD player? A few years back one of their reviewers claimed that a hi-res album from QoBuz sounded better than the same album from HDTracks; almost immediately a number of posters on the SHForums posted results of AudioDiffMaker comparisons of the 2 filesets (they were bit-for-bit identical, including "timing"), although I am unaware of TAS ever acknowledging this.
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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December 17, 2021, 10:20 PM #46
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
- Location
- Orlando, FL
- Posts
- 250
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
With regard to the Luxman, DVDA and DVDV discs both have video content and aren't "audio-only." I've already forgotten if all blu ray audio discs have a video menu because I haven't played one in awhile. So while I may concede the absence of blu ray audio which would otherwise be welcome, it does play the newest format of the last 5 years, MQA encoded compact discs. It obviously lacks hdcd decoding capability, though.
Christian
south: Mark Levinson No. 52 pre, Bricasti M28 amps, Lumin A1, Oppo BDP-205, Pioneer CT-43, Sony SS-AR1 Speakers, Audioquest PCs, Audioquest speaker cables, Audioquest & Iconoclast interconnects, HB Power Design Powerslave Star Galaxy power distributor
north: Vitus SIA-030, Luxman D-10X, Sony TC-KA3ES, Harbeth 40.2, Siltech cables
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December 17, 2021, 10:54 PM #47
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
- Location
- Minnesota
- Posts
- 1,369
My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR.
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December 18, 2021, 12:01 AM #48
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Strange, because I have quite a number of DVD-A's without video content (in fact I don't have any with video content) as well as a few audio only DVD-V's (Classic Records released a bunch in the 1990's). Also, while most Naxos Bluray Audio discs are multi-channel, some are 2-channel only (and all are without video content). BD Audio can play directly from the player's remote control, no menu required. Each of those formats has more titles than MQA CD. There are also hundreds (perhaps thousands) of HDCD titles out there.
I'm still unclear on what differentiates the Luxman (in terms of disc format playability) from all the other SACD/CD players on the market. Sorry, I don't consider MQA-CD to be meaningful, especially since anyone who cares about MQA will almost certainly stream the slightly better sounding versions of those albums on Tidal.Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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December 18, 2021, 10:59 AM #49
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
"" The Internet has added Internet Balls, where people believe it is ok to say things and make comments that they would never do in person face to face....""
Got to agree Randy, seen it happen a lot and what's a hoot is meeting these people later on and after you bring up that conversation, they always come back, "ah, I was just fooling with ya " , or "didn't mean it", or " its the internet", whatever the hell that means.2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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December 19, 2021, 07:28 PM #50
Re: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
Tom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Video:
MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.
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Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
Well, I want to share an experience about possible break-in... I have my k03-xd for about 1 year now and recently got into playing a lot of CDs (incl. SACD) which I might have done about 50 times...
My experience with the K-03XD