Chi Fi??

The term Chi-Fi has been around for a while. There are people on this forum that have Chi-Fi gear.
 
I own a few pieces of ChiFi gear. I bought a couple Topping E50 DAC's for around $200. I use 1 for a small bedroom system with a Marantz 2ch receiver and Monitor Audio Rx1 Silver speakers. It replaced a Schiit Modi 3 and it sounds way better. The other is used in a 2ch TV system and it sounds way better than the built in DAC in the Denon AVR. They seem to be built well with nice features but time will tell if they last.

I also own a few chinese linear power supplies and they have made a nice difference in sound quality with a Chord Qutest DAC and the aftermarket JCat usb board for my computer. They are built well and use quality caps. $50-60 each.

The issue with chifi is that the gear is disposable. Don't expect service on a broken $200-$300 piece of gear from China.
 
Many US, EU and UK brands have their equipment built in China. I have no problem with that as the brand is responsible for quality control, warranties, etc and (one would hope) they should take care that the factory working conditions and wages are fair - for Chinese workers.

My NAD gear is built in China and I recently bought a pair of REL subs - also assembled (whatever that may mean) in China. I had a pair of QUAD electrostatic speakers for a while and QUAD is now Chinese owned, though their Peterborough plant is still in operation for repairs, etc.

The only truly made in China product I've owned was a pair of Consonance Cyber 845 mono amps that I imported via their Hong Kong outlet. Built well and never any problems.
 
I generally have no problem with Major companies having their gear built in China for the most part since there are local service centers. It is the cheap ChiFi gear that is suspect. Just read the amazon reviews on cheap ChiFi gear reliability.

I also buy carbon fiber bike parts from china. All have been fairly well made with no issues in everyday use. I just put a carbon fork, seatpost and handlebars on my road E-Bike.
 
Hear Here said:
Many US, EU and UK brands have their equipment built in China. I have no problem with that as the brand is responsible for quality control, warranties, etc <snip>
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and

I generally have no problem with Major companies having their gear built in China for the most part since there are local service centers. It is the cheap ChiFi gear that is suspect. Just read the amazon reviews on cheap ChiFi gear reliability.

I also buy carbon fiber bike parts from china. All have been fairly well made with no issues in everyday use. I just put a carbon fork, seatpost and handlebars on my road E-Bike.
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Quality, like the physics that is the foundation for the transfer functions that drive audio equipment functionality, features, and quality and performance, is not "geographically constrained." This is because Physics works the same way everywhere...in the Universe.

If folks are using a Dell or Apple computer...those are made in China. HP laptops are made in Vietnam and Thailand.

After WWII, Japan had the same stigma attached to it: that it's products were cheap and of low quality. Then, W. Edwards Deming went to Japan.

Look at how the Japanese camera companies, Nikon, Canon, Fujifilm completely took over and now dominate the photography manufacturing sector.

Folks used to hold the same set of views back in the 70's and early 80's about Japanese cars. But the Japanese auto manufacturers consistently raised their quality game and in the 80s, Japanese auto manufacturers were building automobiles that were not only better values for the price but had considerably higher quality, as well as reliability and durability than than the US auto manufacturers. Meantime, the Detroit manufacturers were literally parking and storing incompletely assembled cars in storage lots because they couldn't deliver on a "first-time right" level of quality. Then, the Japanese manufacturers moved their operations to the USA, and maintained that same level of quality, proving once again, that quality is a product of how things are made, not where.

Coming back to audio Lumin is an excellent example of Chinese-based audio company. Lumin is a Hong Kong-based company that was spun off from the broadcasting technology giant, Pixel Genius. Lumin has excellent engineers who understand how to design and manufacture superbly well-engineered products that not only have innovative features and functionality, but are exceptionally engaging and "authentic" with respect to their reproduction and presentation of...MUSIC. These guys just...get it. Another company in this vein is Westminster Labs.

Quality is the result of HOW things are made, not WHERE.
 
Having lived there, the suspicion on audio equipment, indeed anything, made by local companies in China is well founded. The fact of the matter is that internal standards are not up to international levels. That’s not to say a local Chinese company cannot meet international standards. Only that the government may or may not hold the company to them.

International companies who have their products made there are likely spending considerable time and resources to insure every unit made is to their specifications.

To Stephen’s point, the Chinese worker is more than capable of producing the highest of quality. The system in China may not require or enforce the standard to achieve them.
 
crwilli said:
Having lived there, the suspicion on audio equipment, indeed anything, made by local companies in China is well founded. The fact of the matter is that internal standards are not up to international levels. That’s not to say a local Chinese company cannot meet international standards. Only that the government may or may not hold the company to them.

International companies who have their products made there are likely spending considerable time and resources to insure every unit made is to their specifications.

To Stephen’s point, the Chinese worker is more than capable of producing the highest of quality. The system in China may not require or enforce the standard to achieve them.
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Your point and PumaCat’s point are both valid. The Japanese example (and Korea as well) can serve as roadmaps for those Chinese companies intent on improving the quality of their products.
What many “Chi-Fi” companies are doing is demonstrating to consumers that they can get ‘high-end’ sound without spending an arm and a leg.
I know of several young “audiophiles” who have sold their name-brand equipment and replaced them with Chi-Fi products. And while the quality of many of those products still need to improve, their prices are so low as compared to brand-name high-end equipment that even if they fail after a few years, consumers still save money compared to the high depreciation costs of the expensive brand-name equipment.
High-end sound has never been more accessible and affordable as it is today and Chi-Fi is one reason for that.
 
Puma Cat said:
and



Quality, like the physics that is the foundation for the transfer functions that drive audio equipment functionality, features, and quality and performance, is not "geographically constrained." This is because Physics works the same way everywhere...in the Universe.

If folks are using a Dell or Apple computer...those are made in China. HP laptops are made in Vietnam and Thailand.

After WWII, Japan had the same stigma attached to it: that it's products were cheap and of low quality. Then, W. Edwards Deming went to Japan.

Look at how the Japanese camera companies, Nikon, Canon, Fujifilm completely took over and now dominate the photography manufacturing sector.

Folks used to hold the same set of views back in the 70's and early 80's about Japanese cars. But the Japanese auto manufacturers consistently raised their quality game and in the 80s, Japanese auto manufacturers were building automobiles that were not only better values for the price but had considerably higher quality, as well as reliability and durability than than the US auto manufacturers. Meantime, the Detroit manufacturers were literally parking and storing incompletely assembled cars in storage lots because they couldn't deliver on a "first-time right" level of quality. Then, the Japanese manufacturers moved their operations to the USA, and maintained that same level of quality, proving once again, that quality is a product of how things are made, not where.

Coming back to audio Lumin is an excellent example of Chinese-based audio company. Lumin is a Hong Kong-based company that was spun off from the broadcasting technology giant, Pixel Genius. Lumin has excellent engineers who understand how to design and manufacture superbly well-engineered products that not only have innovative features and functionality, but are exceptionally engaging and "authentic" with respect to their reproduction and presentation of...MUSIC. These guys just...get it. Another company in this vein is Westminster Labs.

Quality is the result of HOW things are made, not WHERE.
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I realize that geography has nothing to do with build quality but quality does relate to parts that are used (including counterfeit parts) and how corrupt a country is. I do not think of quality when I think of China.
 
Cables is a good thing to buy at aliexpress. I look how they are build, not the brand.

Here one of my favorites, double shielded, twisted, cat 8, oxygen free copper, and a gold plated connector. There are audiophilic cables which don't have all this, and the price is a joke.

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005004779186838.html?pdp_npi=4%40dis%21EUR%21%E2%82%AC%206%2C29%21%E2%82%AC%202%2C49%21%21%216.62%212.62%21%402103835e17181220424233911e759b%2112000030455820168%21sh%21NL%210%21&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.new_all_items_2007523607692.1005004779186838&gatewayAdapt=glo2nld
 
Mechnutt said:
I realize that geography has nothing to do with build quality but quality does relate to parts that are used (including counterfeit parts) <snip>
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The same exact situation applied to automobiles made by the USA Big 3 auto manufacturers in the 70's and 80's. They didn't care at all about providing quality and value for their customers, but rather compensation for their executives.
 
The cables at Ali Express noted above are an excellent value. Just like Amazon does here (and other countries too), Ali Express sells things that come from vendors in different places. I've bought things on Amazon (e.g. universal remote, shirts, etc.) that come from other countries, including China. Rotel is a Japanese company which moved production to their own Chinese factory (Guangdong, China) since the 1990s. They did this for quality control and costs. Some places in the Far East build electronics (various things from audio equipment to appliances) for other companies. The problem with not controlling one's own production is that the factory might have made microwaves or something else before moving to the audio equipment.

Also, if these third party manufactures don't have the exact part, they can substitute something similar. A couple of real world situations I experienced many moons ago had quality control issues from this process. One, a stereo store where I bought stuff just received a shipment of ($900 list) Adcom preamps which were receiving rave reviews. The store manager called me in the back room to listen to two of these preamps. One sounded great and the other like crap. At another store I frequented, they carried NAD electronics. That store manager showed me an amp, a preamp and a tuner from the same series and while they were all charcoal gray in color, they were different shades.

So as it is with most things, any place will have companies which build nice products as well as crap ones too. I love my Lumin music servers (made in Hong Kong). I owned the U1 and now own the U2. Very high quality.
 
Phil A said:
The cables at Ali Express noted above are an excellent value. Just like Amazon does here (and other countries too), Ali Express sells things that come from vendors in different places. I've bought things on Amazon (e.g. universal remote, shirts, etc.) that come from other countries, including China. Rotel is a Japanese company which moved production to their own Chinese factory (Guangdong, China) since the 1990s. They did this for quality control and costs. Some places in the Far East build electronics (various things from audio equipment to appliances) for other companies. The problem with not controlling one's own production is that the factory might have made microwaves or something else before moving to the audio equipment.

Also, if these third party manufactures don't have the exact part, they can substitute something similar. A couple of real world situations I experienced many moons ago had quality control issues from this process. One, a stereo store where I bought stuff just received a shipment of ($900 list) Adcom preamps which were receiving rave reviews. The store manager called me in the back room to listen to two of these preamps. One sounded great and the other like crap. At another store I frequented, they carried NAD electronics. That store manager showed me an amp, a preamp and a tuner from the same series and while they were all charcoal gray in color, they were different shades.

So as it is with most things, any place will have companies which build nice products as well as crap ones too. I love my Lumin music servers (made in Hong Kong). I owned the U1 and now own the U2. Very high quality.
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Lumin are assembled in Shenzhen. Their products are designed in HK.
 
Proves the point that quality and consistency can be achieved in China.
It’s a huge country which should not be generalized and whose people do not necessarily equal the Government of the Communist party.
 
There is so much stuff made in China in your home and in your vehicles. I gave up trying to limit what I had that was made in china. Also did you know China accounts for 13% of the medicine we in the US take.,
 
Shadowfax said:
Are the Nordost Cables sold thru Ali Express all counterfeit?
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Yes - as far as I'm aware. I've known others to buy them and I tried a couple. They are quite decent (and well made) and better than many more expensive cables (the people I know sold $2k+ speaker cables and other audio cables as they told me the knock-offs are better) but they are not Nordost. The biggest problem I have with things like that is they are naming them Nordost. Obviously, they could not do that in many if not most places. They also have cables labeled as Furutech, Canare, McIntosh, Accuphase, Van Den Hul, Shunyata, Cardas and likely others and I doubt that any of them are genuine. I've bought raw materials of genuine Furutech and Canare brand items and made things and have some cables in various systems which have genuine brand names. If one goes over to Audiogon, they have whole threads about counterfeit Chinese cables. I have not followed the discussions much. It's the nature of the way things have evolved. There's been a bunch of articles about the decline of the numbers of high end audio dealers (e.g. The “Decline” in High-End Audio Sales: A New Outlook - HomeTheaterHifi.com or Audiophiles Killed High-End Audio — Of Sound Design and I'm sure lots of others). Even though it is illegal to sell them on various places (e.g. eBay), it apparently still happens - Purchased counterfeit Shure microphone - The eBay Community or other places - e.g. How to spot fake products on eBay, Amazon - ABC7 San Francisco
 
Phil A said:
Yes - as far as I'm aware. I've known others to buy them and I tried a couple. They are quite decent (and well made) and better than many more expensive cables (the people I know sold $2k+ speaker cables and other audio cables as they told me the knock-offs are better) but they are not Nordost. The biggest problem I have with things like that is they are naming them Nordost. Obviously, they could not do that in many if not most places. They also have cables labeled as Furutech, Canare, McIntosh, Accuphase, Van Den Hul, Shunyata, Cardas and likely others and I doubt that any of them are genuine. I've bought raw materials of genuine Furutech and Canare brand items and made things and have some cables in various systems which have genuine brand names. If one goes over to Audiogon, they have whole threads about counterfeit Chinese cables. I have not followed the discussions much. It's the nature of the way things have evolved. There's been a bunch of articles about the decline of the numbers of high end audio dealers (e.g. The “Decline” in High-End Audio Sales: A New Outlook - HomeTheaterHifi.com or Audiophiles Killed High-End Audio — Of Sound Design and I'm sure lots of others). Even though it is illegal to sell them on various places (e.g. eBay), it apparently still happens - Purchased counterfeit Shure microphone - The eBay Community or other places - e.g. How to spot fake products on eBay, Amazon - ABC7 San Francisco
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This is how it really works. These cable sellers have a nice brand with marketing. The machines are there. If you order one in China then you get a standard cable. If you order alot together they are willing to adjust the design and put your own logo on it, with different textures. It looks like a unique one, but actually it is a normal one with a different color.

Put it in an own designed box, and demonstrated at a nice presentation at an audio show as something special and they can sell it with huge profit margins.

Don't think they have their own machines melting copper and silvers and give them a special treatment. Cable business is buy low sell high, put it in a luxury box and a good marketing strategy
 
NewAlkyogre said:
T
Don't think they have their own machines melting copper and silvers and give them a special treatment. Cable business is buy low sell high, put it in a luxury box and a good marketing strategy
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AliExpress is like Amazon with different sellers. It is likely they are getting them (the raw wires) from some factory in the Far East with cheap labor.
 
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