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Thread: Chi Fi??

  1. #1
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    Chi Fi??

    I read this article that I thought did a pretty good job of explaining the pros/cons of buying from China and I didn't realize it has its own name.
    The Audiophile Realities of Owning Chi-Fi Equipment

    The article also does a good job of putting the products in their place in the market. Thoughts?
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

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    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  2. #2

    Re: Chi Fi??

    The term Chi-Fi has been around for a while. There are people on this forum that have Chi-Fi gear.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  3. #3
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    I own a few pieces of ChiFi gear. I bought a couple Topping E50 DAC's for around $200. I use 1 for a small bedroom system with a Marantz 2ch receiver and Monitor Audio Rx1 Silver speakers. It replaced a Schiit Modi 3 and it sounds way better. The other is used in a 2ch TV system and it sounds way better than the built in DAC in the Denon AVR. They seem to be built well with nice features but time will tell if they last.

    I also own a few chinese linear power supplies and they have made a nice difference in sound quality with a Chord Qutest DAC and the aftermarket JCat usb board for my computer. They are built well and use quality caps. $50-60 each.

    The issue with chifi is that the gear is disposable. Don't expect service on a broken $200-$300 piece of gear from China.
    My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR. Vista Audio Phono 2 phono preamp.

  4. #4
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Many US, EU and UK brands have their equipment built in China. I have no problem with that as the brand is responsible for quality control, warranties, etc and (one would hope) they should take care that the factory working conditions and wages are fair - for Chinese workers.

    My NAD gear is built in China and I recently bought a pair of REL subs - also assembled (whatever that may mean) in China. I had a pair of QUAD electrostatic speakers for a while and QUAD is now Chinese owned, though their Peterborough plant is still in operation for repairs, etc.

    The only truly made in China product I've owned was a pair of Consonance Cyber 845 mono amps that I imported via their Hong Kong outlet. Built well and never any problems.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  5. #5
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    I generally have no problem with Major companies having their gear built in China for the most part since there are local service centers. It is the cheap ChiFi gear that is suspect. Just read the amazon reviews on cheap ChiFi gear reliability.

    I also buy carbon fiber bike parts from china. All have been fairly well made with no issues in everyday use. I just put a carbon fork, seatpost and handlebars on my road E-Bike.
    My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR. Vista Audio Phono 2 phono preamp.

  6. #6
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    Many US, EU and UK brands have their equipment built in China. I have no problem with that as the brand is responsible for quality control, warranties, etc <snip>
    and

    I generally have no problem with Major companies having their gear built in China for the most part since there are local service centers. It is the cheap ChiFi gear that is suspect. Just read the amazon reviews on cheap ChiFi gear reliability.

    I also buy carbon fiber bike parts from china. All have been fairly well made with no issues in everyday use. I just put a carbon fork, seatpost and handlebars on my road E-Bike.
    Quality, like the physics that is the foundation for the transfer functions that drive audio equipment functionality, features, and quality and performance, is not "geographically constrained." This is because Physics works the same way everywhere...in the Universe.

    If folks are using a Dell or Apple computer...those are made in China. HP laptops are made in Vietnam and Thailand.

    After WWII, Japan had the same stigma attached to it: that it's products were cheap and of low quality. Then, W. Edwards Deming went to Japan.

    Look at how the Japanese camera companies, Nikon, Canon, Fujifilm completely took over and now dominate the photography manufacturing sector.

    Folks used to hold the same set of views back in the 70's and early 80's about Japanese cars. But the Japanese auto manufacturers consistently raised their quality game and in the 80s, Japanese auto manufacturers were building automobiles that were not only better values for the price but had considerably higher quality, as well as reliability and durability than than the US auto manufacturers. Meantime, the Detroit manufacturers were literally parking and storing incompletely assembled cars in storage lots because they couldn't deliver on a "first-time right" level of quality. Then, the Japanese manufacturers moved their operations to the USA, and maintained that same level of quality, proving once again, that quality is a product of how things are made, not where.

    Coming back to audio Lumin is an excellent example of Chinese-based audio company. Lumin is a Hong Kong-based company that was spun off from the broadcasting technology giant, Pixel Genius. Lumin has excellent engineers who understand how to design and manufacture superbly well-engineered products that not only have innovative features and functionality, but are exceptionally engaging and "authentic" with respect to their reproduction and presentation of...MUSIC. These guys just...get it. Another company in this vein is Westminster Labs.

    Quality is the result of HOW things are made, not WHERE.
    Ĥѱ = 𝐸ѱ

  7. #7
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Having lived there, the suspicion on audio equipment, indeed anything, made by local companies in China is well founded. The fact of the matter is that internal standards are not up to international levels. That’s not to say a local Chinese company cannot meet international standards. Only that the government may or may not hold the company to them.

    International companies who have their products made there are likely spending considerable time and resources to insure every unit made is to their specifications.

    To Stephen’s point, the Chinese worker is more than capable of producing the highest of quality. The system in China may not require or enforce the standard to achieve them.
    Main Equipment: Kharma Elegance dB11-S, JL Audio F113v2, Block Audio Line & Mono SE Amplification, Bricasti M21 DAC, Antipodes Kala K-50 Server, ClearAudio Performance SE, Satisfy Arm & Maestro Wood MM Cartridge
    Power: 3 x 20 Amp Lines, Shunyata Everest 8000, Sigma XC v2, Shunyata Sigma v2 NR, Block Audio Power Cords, Defender, ADDPowr Wizard
    Grounding: Shunyata Altaira CGS - Alpha CGS cables
    Network : Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon Modified) Buffalo GS2016 Switches powered with Keces P3 LPSU,
    Cables: Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 USB, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 SCs, 1M & 6M Tubulus Concentus ICs,
    Other: Twin PSI Audio AVAA C20, Isoacoustics GAIA I footers on Kharmas, GIK/Vicoustics/Stillpoint Apertures, Stillpoint Ultra SS, Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona Rack

  8. #8

    Re: Chi Fi??

    Quote Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
    Having lived there, the suspicion on audio equipment, indeed anything, made by local companies in China is well founded. The fact of the matter is that internal standards are not up to international levels. That’s not to say a local Chinese company cannot meet international standards. Only that the government may or may not hold the company to them.

    International companies who have their products made there are likely spending considerable time and resources to insure every unit made is to their specifications.

    To Stephen’s point, the Chinese worker is more than capable of producing the highest of quality. The system in China may not require or enforce the standard to achieve them.
    Your point and PumaCat’s point are both valid. The Japanese example (and Korea as well) can serve as roadmaps for those Chinese companies intent on improving the quality of their products.
    What many “Chi-Fi” companies are doing is demonstrating to consumers that they can get ‘high-end’ sound without spending an arm and a leg.
    I know of several young “audiophiles” who have sold their name-brand equipment and replaced them with Chi-Fi products. And while the quality of many of those products still need to improve, their prices are so low as compared to brand-name high-end equipment that even if they fail after a few years, consumers still save money compared to the high depreciation costs of the expensive brand-name equipment.
    High-end sound has never been more accessible and affordable as it is today and Chi-Fi is one reason for that.

  9. #9
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    and



    Quality, like the physics that is the foundation for the transfer functions that drive audio equipment functionality, features, and quality and performance, is not "geographically constrained." This is because Physics works the same way everywhere...in the Universe.

    If folks are using a Dell or Apple computer...those are made in China. HP laptops are made in Vietnam and Thailand.

    After WWII, Japan had the same stigma attached to it: that it's products were cheap and of low quality. Then, W. Edwards Deming went to Japan.

    Look at how the Japanese camera companies, Nikon, Canon, Fujifilm completely took over and now dominate the photography manufacturing sector.

    Folks used to hold the same set of views back in the 70's and early 80's about Japanese cars. But the Japanese auto manufacturers consistently raised their quality game and in the 80s, Japanese auto manufacturers were building automobiles that were not only better values for the price but had considerably higher quality, as well as reliability and durability than than the US auto manufacturers. Meantime, the Detroit manufacturers were literally parking and storing incompletely assembled cars in storage lots because they couldn't deliver on a "first-time right" level of quality. Then, the Japanese manufacturers moved their operations to the USA, and maintained that same level of quality, proving once again, that quality is a product of how things are made, not where.

    Coming back to audio Lumin is an excellent example of Chinese-based audio company. Lumin is a Hong Kong-based company that was spun off from the broadcasting technology giant, Pixel Genius. Lumin has excellent engineers who understand how to design and manufacture superbly well-engineered products that not only have innovative features and functionality, but are exceptionally engaging and "authentic" with respect to their reproduction and presentation of...MUSIC. These guys just...get it. Another company in this vein is Westminster Labs.

    Quality is the result of HOW things are made, not WHERE.
    I realize that geography has nothing to do with build quality but quality does relate to parts that are used (including counterfeit parts) and how corrupt a country is. I do not think of quality when I think of China.
    My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR. Vista Audio Phono 2 phono preamp.

  10. #10
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Cables is a good thing to buy at aliexpress. I look how they are build, not the brand.

    Here one of my favorites, double shielded, twisted, cat 8, oxygen free copper, and a gold plated connector. There are audiophilic cables which don't have all this, and the price is a joke.

    https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/10050...yAdapt=glo2nld
    Speakers - Bach He2S
    Source: cd player JK acoustics toploader
    fanless nuc 10i7 running on audiolinux
    dac: denafrips ares ii
    preamp: Bryston BP-25
    end amplification: Hypex Nilai
    switch: Silent Angel Bonn

  11. #11
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechnutt View Post
    I realize that geography has nothing to do with build quality but quality does relate to parts that are used (including counterfeit parts) <snip>
    The same exact situation applied to automobiles made by the USA Big 3 auto manufacturers in the 70's and 80's. They didn't care at all about providing quality and value for their customers, but rather compensation for their executives.
    Ĥѱ = 𝐸ѱ

  12. #12
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    The cables at Ali Express noted above are an excellent value. Just like Amazon does here (and other countries too), Ali Express sells things that come from vendors in different places. I've bought things on Amazon (e.g. universal remote, shirts, etc.) that come from other countries, including China. Rotel is a Japanese company which moved production to their own Chinese factory (Guangdong, China) since the 1990s. They did this for quality control and costs. Some places in the Far East build electronics (various things from audio equipment to appliances) for other companies. The problem with not controlling one's own production is that the factory might have made microwaves or something else before moving to the audio equipment.

    Also, if these third party manufactures don't have the exact part, they can substitute something similar. A couple of real world situations I experienced many moons ago had quality control issues from this process. One, a stereo store where I bought stuff just received a shipment of ($900 list) Adcom preamps which were receiving rave reviews. The store manager called me in the back room to listen to two of these preamps. One sounded great and the other like crap. At another store I frequented, they carried NAD electronics. That store manager showed me an amp, a preamp and a tuner from the same series and while they were all charcoal gray in color, they were different shades.

    So as it is with most things, any place will have companies which build nice products as well as crap ones too. I love my Lumin music servers (made in Hong Kong). I owned the U1 and now own the U2. Very high quality.
    Main System - Lumin U2, Modwright LS36.5 DM Preamp, VTV Purifi 1ET-7040SA with tube buffer, EMM Labs DAC 2X (ver. 2), Torus RM-20, Thiel CS 3.7s, 2 Rel S/812 subs
    Back-up 1 - Premium Audio mini Gan Amp, Oppo 103D, 2 Richard Gray cond, Selah SA-2s, Sumiko S5 sub, Teac UD-503 DAC, Carver (modded) C-9
    Back-up 2 - Onkyo TX-NR797, Panasonic DP-UB820, Vansevers cond, B&W P6s, PowerSoundAudio S1500 sub

  13. #13

    Re: Chi Fi??

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil A View Post
    The cables at Ali Express noted above are an excellent value. Just like Amazon does here (and other countries too), Ali Express sells things that come from vendors in different places. I've bought things on Amazon (e.g. universal remote, shirts, etc.) that come from other countries, including China. Rotel is a Japanese company which moved production to their own Chinese factory (Guangdong, China) since the 1990s. They did this for quality control and costs. Some places in the Far East build electronics (various things from audio equipment to appliances) for other companies. The problem with not controlling one's own production is that the factory might have made microwaves or something else before moving to the audio equipment.

    Also, if these third party manufactures don't have the exact part, they can substitute something similar. A couple of real world situations I experienced many moons ago had quality control issues from this process. One, a stereo store where I bought stuff just received a shipment of ($900 list) Adcom preamps which were receiving rave reviews. The store manager called me in the back room to listen to two of these preamps. One sounded great and the other like crap. At another store I frequented, they carried NAD electronics. That store manager showed me an amp, a preamp and a tuner from the same series and while they were all charcoal gray in color, they were different shades.

    So as it is with most things, any place will have companies which build nice products as well as crap ones too. I love my Lumin music servers (made in Hong Kong). I owned the U1 and now own the U2. Very high quality.
    Lumin are assembled in Shenzhen. Their products are designed in HK.

  14. #14
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Proves the point that quality and consistency can be achieved in China.
    It’s a huge country which should not be generalized and whose people do not necessarily equal the Government of the Communist party.
    Main Equipment: Kharma Elegance dB11-S, JL Audio F113v2, Block Audio Line & Mono SE Amplification, Bricasti M21 DAC, Antipodes Kala K-50 Server, ClearAudio Performance SE, Satisfy Arm & Maestro Wood MM Cartridge
    Power: 3 x 20 Amp Lines, Shunyata Everest 8000, Sigma XC v2, Shunyata Sigma v2 NR, Block Audio Power Cords, Defender, ADDPowr Wizard
    Grounding: Shunyata Altaira CGS - Alpha CGS cables
    Network : Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon Modified) Buffalo GS2016 Switches powered with Keces P3 LPSU,
    Cables: Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 USB, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 SCs, 1M & 6M Tubulus Concentus ICs,
    Other: Twin PSI Audio AVAA C20, Isoacoustics GAIA I footers on Kharmas, GIK/Vicoustics/Stillpoint Apertures, Stillpoint Ultra SS, Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona Rack

  15. #15
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    There is so much stuff made in China in your home and in your vehicles. I gave up trying to limit what I had that was made in china. Also did you know China accounts for 13% of the medicine we in the US take.,
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  16. #16
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Are the Nordost Cables sold thru Ali Express all counterfeit?
    -----------------
    Brian

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    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  17. #17
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    Are the Nordost Cables sold thru Ali Express all counterfeit?
    Yes - as far as I'm aware. I've known others to buy them and I tried a couple. They are quite decent (and well made) and better than many more expensive cables (the people I know sold $2k+ speaker cables and other audio cables as they told me the knock-offs are better) but they are not Nordost. The biggest problem I have with things like that is they are naming them Nordost. Obviously, they could not do that in many if not most places. They also have cables labeled as Furutech, Canare, McIntosh, Accuphase, Van Den Hul, Shunyata, Cardas and likely others and I doubt that any of them are genuine. I've bought raw materials of genuine Furutech and Canare brand items and made things and have some cables in various systems which have genuine brand names. If one goes over to Audiogon, they have whole threads about counterfeit Chinese cables. I have not followed the discussions much. It's the nature of the way things have evolved. There's been a bunch of articles about the decline of the numbers of high end audio dealers (e.g. The “Decline” in High-End Audio Sales: A New Outlook - HomeTheaterHifi.com or Audiophiles Killed High-End Audio — Of Sound Design and I'm sure lots of others). Even though it is illegal to sell them on various places (e.g. eBay), it apparently still happens - Purchased counterfeit Shure microphone - The eBay Community or other places - e.g. How to spot fake products on eBay, Amazon - ABC7 San Francisco
    Main System - Lumin U2, Modwright LS36.5 DM Preamp, VTV Purifi 1ET-7040SA with tube buffer, EMM Labs DAC 2X (ver. 2), Torus RM-20, Thiel CS 3.7s, 2 Rel S/812 subs
    Back-up 1 - Premium Audio mini Gan Amp, Oppo 103D, 2 Richard Gray cond, Selah SA-2s, Sumiko S5 sub, Teac UD-503 DAC, Carver (modded) C-9
    Back-up 2 - Onkyo TX-NR797, Panasonic DP-UB820, Vansevers cond, B&W P6s, PowerSoundAudio S1500 sub

  18. #18
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil A View Post
    Yes - as far as I'm aware. I've known others to buy them and I tried a couple. They are quite decent (and well made) and better than many more expensive cables (the people I know sold $2k+ speaker cables and other audio cables as they told me the knock-offs are better) but they are not Nordost. The biggest problem I have with things like that is they are naming them Nordost. Obviously, they could not do that in many if not most places. They also have cables labeled as Furutech, Canare, McIntosh, Accuphase, Van Den Hul, Shunyata, Cardas and likely others and I doubt that any of them are genuine. I've bought raw materials of genuine Furutech and Canare brand items and made things and have some cables in various systems which have genuine brand names. If one goes over to Audiogon, they have whole threads about counterfeit Chinese cables. I have not followed the discussions much. It's the nature of the way things have evolved. There's been a bunch of articles about the decline of the numbers of high end audio dealers (e.g. The “Decline” in High-End Audio Sales: A New Outlook - HomeTheaterHifi.com or Audiophiles Killed High-End Audio — Of Sound Design and I'm sure lots of others). Even though it is illegal to sell them on various places (e.g. eBay), it apparently still happens - Purchased counterfeit Shure microphone - The eBay Community or other places - e.g. How to spot fake products on eBay, Amazon - ABC7 San Francisco
    This is how it really works. These cable sellers have a nice brand with marketing. The machines are there. If you order one in China then you get a standard cable. If you order alot together they are willing to adjust the design and put your own logo on it, with different textures. It looks like a unique one, but actually it is a normal one with a different color.

    Put it in an own designed box, and demonstrated at a nice presentation at an audio show as something special and they can sell it with huge profit margins.

    Don't think they have their own machines melting copper and silvers and give them a special treatment. Cable business is buy low sell high, put it in a luxury box and a good marketing strategy
    Speakers - Bach He2S
    Source: cd player JK acoustics toploader
    fanless nuc 10i7 running on audiolinux
    dac: denafrips ares ii
    preamp: Bryston BP-25
    end amplification: Hypex Nilai
    switch: Silent Angel Bonn

  19. #19
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Quote Originally Posted by NewAlkyogre View Post
    T
    Don't think they have their own machines melting copper and silvers and give them a special treatment. Cable business is buy low sell high, put it in a luxury box and a good marketing strategy
    AliExpress is like Amazon with different sellers. It is likely they are getting them (the raw wires) from some factory in the Far East with cheap labor.
    Main System - Lumin U2, Modwright LS36.5 DM Preamp, VTV Purifi 1ET-7040SA with tube buffer, EMM Labs DAC 2X (ver. 2), Torus RM-20, Thiel CS 3.7s, 2 Rel S/812 subs
    Back-up 1 - Premium Audio mini Gan Amp, Oppo 103D, 2 Richard Gray cond, Selah SA-2s, Sumiko S5 sub, Teac UD-503 DAC, Carver (modded) C-9
    Back-up 2 - Onkyo TX-NR797, Panasonic DP-UB820, Vansevers cond, B&W P6s, PowerSoundAudio S1500 sub

  20. #20
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Has anyone tried a SS amp from china. Like the dartzeel ones?

  21. #21
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    I didn't know they were built in China, price sure don't reflect it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    Has anyone tried a SS amp from china. Like the dartzeel ones?
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  22. #22
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    I was just comparing Nordost cables from the Cable Company site and all the connectors on Ali cables are different. Quite possible the wire is the same tho. Prices are insanely cheap.
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  23. #23
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    Has anyone tried a SS amp from china. Like the dartzeel ones?
    Those are Dartstealz
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his latest Class D incarnation *

  24. #24
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    My only Chinese audio equipment was Quad ESL 2805s. Both speakers failed and there were no replacement panels available in the USA and no current distributor.

    Now, with some exceptions (server, tubes, and internal parts), all my equipment in both systems is made in the USA. I cringe when I am forced to buy anything made in China because there are no good options.
    Contributor to stereotimes.com

  25. #25
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    The thread is ChiFi. Obviously the amps from there are not Dartzeel. They come in a variety of prices. Pick the quality level of parts you want. They talk about taking a real NHB 108 apart and copying the unit. I have read some Audiogon Forum people talk highly of them. But that is usually a person use to Schiit quality goods. Not someone that owns a Luxman MU900 or real Dartzeel.

  26. #26
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    Re: Chi Fi??

    There are some cable brands which are manufactured in China, so the branded cables sold on AliExpress and the like may be from the same production line. Nordost cables are manufactured in their own factory in the US, so any "Nordost" cables sold on those sites are nothing but replicas. They are only made to look similar to the authentic product but are simply knock offs not built to the same specifications. Of course you may find some that sound good, but don't fool yourself into believing that you're getting an authentic product for a fraction of the price. It's similar to the replica watch market, buyer beware applies.

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    East Bay, CA
    Posts
    2,474

    Re: Chi Fi??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzie View Post

    Now, with some exceptions (server, tubes, and internal parts), all my equipment in both systems is made in the USA. I cringe when I am forced to buy anything made in China because there are no good options.
    That is simply not true. Lumin develops, engineers and manufactures products of superb quality and fuctionality. As does Eversolo, and when they were in the market, so did Oppo. My guess is many folks here still have and use Oppo Blu-Ray players. Dussun and Opera Audio makes excellent amplifiers and, Opera also makes very well-engineered turntables and tonearms. Well-Tempered has it's turntables manufactured in China.

    I've mentioned this point multiple times, but quality is the result of HOW products are made, not WHERE. Just look at the absolute crap automobiles produced by the American Big 3 auto industry in the 70's and 80's. There are sound reasons why Toyota and Honda entered the American auto market and took significant market share from the Big 3. Because they manufactured high-quality products for customers that provided Value*, and that worked and didn't break. Imagine that.

    I've worked directly with PhD-level scientists from China as well as Korea and Asia, and they are amongst the best scientists I have ever worked with. And, unlike many American scientists I've also worked with, the Asian scientists don't f*ck around...they just get on with the job. And then, execute at a VERY high level. What I found in my professional career working in Science & Technology for 42 years was the best scientists & engineers I ever worked with were Asian, Dutch, or Danish.

    *-Value=Quality/Price
    Ĥѱ = 𝐸ѱ

  28. #28
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    Join Date
    Dec 2023
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    netherlands
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    40

    Re: Chi Fi??

    Not about audio, havenÂ’t seen there any audio store. A month ago I visited China for a 2 weeks tour and it is absolutely worth it to do. Took a trip from Beijing, the bullet train to XiÂ’An, from there the night train to Nanjing, then via Suzhou to Shanghai

    It was an unforgettable trip, the country was so different what I thought it was, Buildings are great, food was delicious, country is clean and you feel everywhere safe. And everyone says hi and likes to take photos of you. An absolutely a journey to have done once in your life.

    IMG_6905.jpeg

    IMG_7041.jpeg

    IMG_7219.jpeg
    Speakers - Bach He2S
    Source: cd player JK acoustics toploader
    fanless nuc 10i7 running on audiolinux
    dac: denafrips ares ii
    preamp: Bryston BP-25
    end amplification: Hypex Nilai
    switch: Silent Angel Bonn

  29. #29

    Re: Chi Fi??

    Quote Originally Posted by NewAlkyogre View Post
    Not about audio, havenÂ’t seen there any audio store. A month ago I visited China for a 2 weeks tour and it is absolutely worth it to do. Took a trip from Beijing, the bullet train to XiÂ’An, from there the night train to Nanjing, then via Suzhou to Shanghai

    It was an unforgettable trip, the country was so different what I thought it was, Buildings are great, food was delicious, country is clean and you feel everywhere safe. And everyone says hi and likes to take photos of you. An absolutely a journey to have done once in your life.
    Uh huh. I bet they do like to take pictures of all foreigners in China.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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Chi Fi??

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