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Thread: Burn in

  1. #1
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    Burn in

    Ok guys - when you get a new piece of gear/cable to you burn in right away or do you just let in burn in over time through normal play?

    Curios what others do.

    I put it on 24/7 burn in and track notes and burn-in time at 25 hour increments on a spreadsheet. I also typically will put at least 300 to 350 hours on it before serious listening commences.

    As an example, my Luxman 509x really opened up at 275 hours, but at 350 hours this weekend I noticed it developed a delicacy in the way it presented the music and seemed more musical.
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

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    Re: Burn in

    And then some of us don't do anything.
    It is what it is and for just listening to music it doesn't matter.

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    Re: Burn in

    I let the time go naturally for the most part since I just don't leave electrical devices running if not actually in use.

    It had been a long time since I had purchased anything new that would possibly benefit from burn in - break in, but over the last 3 years everything is new.

    My Fynes took a long time to settle in. It also took my ears and brain many hours to "burn in" to a totally new and different speaker and sound characteristics. Out of the box, Bass was not right and there was some in your face qualities with kick drum and snare shots that took a while to go away. I would say somewhere between 300 and 500 hours allowed them to settle in. Once my hearing had adjusted to the speakers, it was much easier to hear the changes which went from bad to good to worse to better and now great. One thing I did was play lots of Bass Heavy tracks and one day I could swear the sound got better after playing Marcus Miller M2 at good volume.

    When I got my Luxman, I did not pay as much attention because it was already the best sound I ever had. But, it did change over time, no idea on the hours, and I noticed similar changes as OP.

    Next was a new Rotel 1572. Again out of the box the best CD Player I had owned replacing the 1072 workhorse. I did not pay much attention to burn in on the CDP.

    Lastly I got a pair of Nordost XLRs to patch the Rotel to the Lux since they were both balanced. Mike used the Nordost Vidar on them before he sent them out. The Vidar is supposed to burn them in prior to use. I was replacing some older Synergistic Research Kaleidoscope ICs and at first listen, the Nordosts sounded like Crap. Ii gave them some time to settle in, maybe they were cold
    Again I did not count the hours but they became more detailed and tighter with some time.
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    Brian

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    Re: Burn in

    yeah baby, another dumpster fire / train wreck in the making !!
    Cheers ! …. Dave

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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    yeah baby, another dumpster fire / train wreck in the making !!
    Only if people turn it into one. Let's watch and see if anyone / who does.

    Hopefully no-one is triggered by my sharing what I do with new gear. If they disagree with my process or the concept of burn in, I have no problem with that and respect their opinion on it.
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    It also took my ears and brain many hours to "burn in" to a totally new and different speaker and sound characteristics.
    and this is the part so many audiophiles have trouble with comprehending. It always cracks me up when someone thinks they can recall what something sounded like 500 hrs ago......... NO YOU CANNOT !!
    Cheers ! …. Dave

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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    and this is the part so many audiophiles have trouble with comprehending. It always cracks me up when someone thinks they can recall what something sounded like 500 hrs ago......... NO YOU CANNOT !!
    Oh I can still describe how the bass sounded out of the box on my Fynes. I also can remember the other issue I mentioned and none of it is there anymore and did not have anything to do with my overall hearing adjustment.
    -----------------
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    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    Oh I can still describe how the bass sounded out of the box on my Fynes. I also can remember the other issue I mentioned and none of it is there anymore and did not have anything to do with my overall hearing adjustment.
    understood, but auditory recall and the ability to pinpoint after that many hours is VoDoo. I'm not disputing the 'break-in' of an electromechanical device, rather some of the absurd claims that some audiophiles make.

    in the end I couldn't care less what anyone wants to believe in, Santa, the Easter Bunny, whatever ..........
    Cheers ! …. Dave

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    Re: Burn in

    Most of my electronics I just break in by normal listening. Speakers I will let run while I'm not home or overnight at a low level to put some hours on them. I had a set of Dynaudio I thought would never break in, the bass was there but so tight you just knew they needed more time, plus, they didn't sound like they did in the demo. They eventually came around but they were the longest audio piece I ever had to break in.
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    Re: Burn in

    Had 2 pair of speakers, both from the same mfr.
    One pair changed subtly over time.
    The other pair changed quite dramatically. The change was obvious.

    I did/ do nothing special for break in.
    Just a mid Fi guy -

    Updated APT Holman pre & Onkyo Integra M506RS electronics. Optonica RP3636 TT w Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso DTI & Blackbird carts, Sony DVP-S7700 CD player, Upgraded Vandersteen 2CI, Tekton Impact & Lore S speakers. Home made wires & cables and it all works for me.

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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by BobInWI View Post
    Had 2 pair of speakers, both from the same mfr.
    One pair changed subtly over time.
    The other pair changed quite dramatically. The change was obvious.

    I did/ do nothing special for break in.
    I think the is very interesting that the same speakers differed like that. I wonder if it was manufacturing variances in the components?
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    Most of my electronics I just break in by normal listening.
    perfect......

    Speakers I will let run while I'm not home or overnight at a low level to put some hours on them. I had a set of Dynaudio I thought would never break in, the bass was there but so tight you just knew they needed more time, plus, they didn't sound like they did in the demo. They eventually came around but they were the longest audio piece I ever had to break in.
    Was the demo done in the store or your listening room ? If the latter then that explains the amount of time to get used to different bass freq response because of room interaction.
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  13. #13

    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by BobInWI View Post
    Had 2 pair of speakers, both from the same mfr.
    One pair changed subtly over time.
    The other pair changed quite dramatically. The change was obvious.

    I did/ do nothing special for break in.
    2 pairs of different model speakers from the same manufacturer?
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute View Post
    I think the is very interesting that the same speakers differed like that. I wonder if it was manufacturing variances in the components?
    I wasn't clear. Speakers are from the same mfgr but different speakers. 1 pair uses SEAS drivers & the other is Eminence (I think).
    The Seas speakers took over 50 hours to settle in. Changes during that process were very noticeable & a big surprise to me.
    At the time. I had not considered break in as a real "thing".
    Just a mid Fi guy -

    Updated APT Holman pre & Onkyo Integra M506RS electronics. Optonica RP3636 TT w Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso DTI & Blackbird carts, Sony DVP-S7700 CD player, Upgraded Vandersteen 2CI, Tekton Impact & Lore S speakers. Home made wires & cables and it all works for me.

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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    2 pairs of different model speakers from the same manufacturer?

    And considering selling one pair & moving upmarket w the same mfgr.

    I've had enough speakers to know that there's plenty of brands that I just don't like the "house" sound.
    With my equipment in my room listening w my ears to the music I prefer, I know what I like for the price I'm willing to pay.
    Just a mid Fi guy -

    Updated APT Holman pre & Onkyo Integra M506RS electronics. Optonica RP3636 TT w Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso DTI & Blackbird carts, Sony DVP-S7700 CD player, Upgraded Vandersteen 2CI, Tekton Impact & Lore S speakers. Home made wires & cables and it all works for me.

  16. #16
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    Re: Burn in

    You and I are on opposite sides of the fence on break in, period. No one gets used to the electronics, period. Either you will like it or not. There's been too many components I've given time to break in and either returned or sold because I didn't like or not happy with the sound. This wouldn't happen if if I was able to adjust to the sound.

    Many electronics have frequency irregularities right out of the box that go away after some break in time. Speakers need time for the voice coils to loosen up, the bass is unusually tight until this happens, this can be heard, along with smoothing of overall frequency response.

    It's absurd to me that anyone would believe we adjust to the sound of a component. If that was true we could buy anything and eventually like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    perfect......



    Was the demo done in the store or your listening room ? If the latter then that explains the amount of time to get used to different bass freq response because of room interaction.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    You and I are on opposite sides of the fence on break in, period.

    Agreed


    No one gets used to the electronics, period. Either you will like it or not. There's been too many components I've given time to break in and either returned or sold because I didn't like or not happy with the sound. This wouldn't happen if if I was able to adjust to the sound.
    so why did you buy them in the first place ?

    Many electronics have frequency irregularities right out of the box that go away after some break in time.
    easily explained and measurable.......

    Speakers need time for the voice coils to loosen up, the bass is unusually tight until this happens, this can be heard, along with smoothing of overall frequency response.
    LOL, explain why some Maggie owners claiming 500 hr 'break-in' nonsense ?

    It's absurd to me that anyone would believe we adjust to the sound of a component. If that was true we could buy anything and eventually like it.
    The only thing absurd is denial with respect to the power of psychoacoustics ...........
    Cheers ! …. Dave

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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post

    It's absurd to me that anyone would believe we adjust to the sound of a component. If that was true we could buy anything and eventually like it.
    !!!

  19. #19
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    !!!

    ???
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  20. #20
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    Re: Burn in

    Can I play??

    abc

    Just having some fun guys.
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute View Post

    Just having some fun guys.
    strangely enough I remember when this hobby was just that !!
    Cheers ! …. Dave

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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    strangely enough I remember when this hobby was just that !!
    Agreed Dave. I think it speaks to society as a whole.
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

  23. #23
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    ???
    means i liked peabodys statement a lot. burn in is a real thing, not only in audio.
    the way to burn,....if you only listen 15 min a day, it will take a lot of time.

  24. #24
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    means i liked peabodys statement a lot. burn in is a real thing, not only in audio.
    Oh I agree when it comes to sun and cooking a good steak ! Enlighten me on what 'burns in' with respect your audio gear

    the way to burn,....if you only listen 15 min a day, it will take a lot of time.
    I suppose but nobody that seriously enjoys music only listens at 15 min at a time ! Now when I sear a nice steak (1 1/2-1 3/4" NY strip) it's 5min on one side, 4 on the other, perfect Pittsburgh Med Rare !
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  25. #25
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    Re: Burn in

    i like the size of your steaks! but 5 minutes?? and why "only" 4 min the other side? do you think the heat went through and you need less?
    i put mine in the oven for 4 hours at 30 deg celsius to get the core tempered and then 3 min each side.

    there is a lot of information in the web about burn in if you are willing to search. well, lol, you will find a lot of friends as well who dont belive about. do you belive in burn in for motors? batteries?

  26. #26
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    Re: Burn in

    Guys, guys....we all know the REAL question is whether you cook you steaks North to South or East to West.
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  27. #27
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    Re: Burn in

    no jokes about steaks please!

  28. #28
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    no jokes about steaks please!
    Few things I enjoy more than a properly seasoned and cooked steak! Mmmmmmmmmm........
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

  29. #29
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    i like the size of your steaks! but 5 minutes?? and why "only" 4 min the other side? do you think the heat went through and you need less?
    i put mine in the oven for 4 hours at 30 deg celsius to get the core tempered and then 3 min each side.
    first off I grill my steaks, the secret is....'know your grill' ! So for the thickness I stated (anything less and you're not a steak person) my timing yields what I stated. Now my son for Christmas Eve goes the extra mile and does prime, dry aged NY Strips 'Sous Vide' and finishes them off on his Weber kettle grill that has a temp a blacksmith would be proud of for a minute a side for a perfect sear.

    there is a lot of information in the web about burn in if you are willing to search. well, lol, you will find a lot of friends as well who dont belive about.
    As someone who has been around this 'hobby' for over fifty years I've seen and heard quite a bit. One thing I know is the mind can fool you and those that refuse to believe that are just that, fools ! Listen...... burn in, break in, run in, whatever you want to call it, can and does have application in certain scenarios but just like the 'wire debate' with regards to mega $$ spending, mega hour break-in is a 'fools gold' fantasy !

    do you belive in burn in for motors? batteries?
    for my electric razor ? no, but tell me more, I'm all ears !!
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  30. #30
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    Re: Burn in

    When I break in electronics I am breaking in the connection between my wallet and my cerebral cortex.
    Tom

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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    When I break in electronics I am breaking in the connection between my wallet and my cerebral cortex.
    And that is 100% measurable!! LOL
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  32. #32
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    When I break in electronics I am breaking in the connection between my wallet and my cerebral cortex.

    The force of pure justification is strong in some
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    Re: Burn in

    Our thoughts can create reality. If you believe that electronics will sound better after break in then you will experience this as fact. If you don’t you won’t.

    Disclaimer: I’m not a psychologist but I play one on TV.
    Tom

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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    Our thoughts can create reality. If you believe that electronics will sound better after break in then you will experience this as fact. If you don’t you won’t.

    Disclaimer: I’m not a psychologist but I play one on TV.
    I respect your differing opinion. Thanks for posting!
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

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    Re: Burn in

    I have no opinion on the audibility of break in because it is an individual personal experience.
    I just noted that if you believe in it it will be true, if you don’t it won’t.
    Lots of background on this phenomenon. Here’s one example:

    How Your Thinking Creates Your Reality | Psychology Today
    Tom

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  36. #36
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    Re: Burn in

    Tom, well stated and I basically agree.
    Cheers ! …. Dave

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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    I have no opinion on the audibility of break in because it is an individual personal experience.
    I just noted that if you believe in it it will be true, if you don’t it won’t.
    Lots of background on this phenomenon. Here’s one example:

    How Your Thinking Creates Your Reality | Psychology Today
    <putting on philosophical hat and not an argumentative one> But what happens when someone like myself DIDN'T believe in it and then experience showed me otherwise. And how can we explain me hearing no change until 275 hours (where as on other gear it happens at different times) and then my wife who doesn't care about anything audio, and whom I gave no heads up on burn in also commented?

    Again - just a philosophical post not argumentative one. I wish every day in my mind my car was a Ferrari but it has yet to happen.
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

  38. #38
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    Re: Burn in

    I find the subject of cognitive science fascinating. We really do know a lot about how the brain works. We may not like the answers and that’s ok. Audio is a rich environment in which to observe how these strong belief systems play out. Throw in a little anonymity and things get pretty interesting.
    Tom

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    Amati Homage VOX Center,
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    Three MC2301's for L,C,R
    MC 602 for the rears
    C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
    Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
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  39. #39
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute View Post
    <putting on philosophical hat and not an argumentative one> But what happens when someone like myself DIDN'T believe in it and then experience showed me otherwise. And how can we explain me hearing no change until 275 hours (where as on other gear it happens at different times) and then my wife who doesn't care about anything audio, and whom I gave no heads up on burn in also commented?

    Again - just a philosophical post not argumentative one. I wish every day in my mind my car was a Ferrari but it has yet to happen.
    It’s your personal experience so totally valid. That your wife corroborated your experience will strengthen it. What cognitive science says is that by having this experience it in the past it is highly likely you will experience it in the future.
    Tom

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    Re: Burn in

    Michael are you sure it wasn't at hour 274 ??

    On a serious note and to answer your question, Toms link to the article is but one resource to show the power of 'thinking your way to the reality of a change'. You're pre-disposed to think , that a 'burn in' will yield the 'ahh moment', so @ hour 275 your brain said, 'ok let's get this over with, bingo' !

    Hey, at the end of the day it's all good as I've said before. This debate will never be settled in a forum discussion so I'm off to put some Neatsfoot oil on my grandsons baseball glove to help it break-in ! I know that's for real !!
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  41. #41
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    Michael are you sure it wasn't at hour 274 ??

    On a serious note and to answer your question, Toms link to the article is but one resource to show the power of 'thinking your way to the reality of a change'. You're pre-disposed to think , that a 'burn in' will yield the 'ahh moment', so @ hour 275 your brain said, 'ok let's get this over with, bingo' !

    Hey, at the end of the day it's all good as I've said before. This debate will never be settled in a forum discussion so I'm off to put some Neatsfoot oil on my grandsons baseball glove to help it break-in ! I know that's for real !!
    It's certainly possible what you guys have stated. I'm not going to state I am right and you are wrong.

    Fun and respectful posts like this are enjoyable!
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    It’s your personal experience so totally valid. That your wife corroborated your experience will strengthen it. What cognitive science says is that by having this experience it in the past it is highly likely you will experience it in the future.
    Very possible Tom. The brain is a complex thing!
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

  43. #43
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    Re: Burn in

    [QUOTE=Mikado463;354907]first off I grill my steaks, the secret is....'know your grill' ! So for the thickness I stated (anything less and you're not a steak person) my timing yields what I stated. Now my son for Christmas Eve goes the extra mile and does prime, dry aged NY Strips 'Sous Vide' and finishes them off on his Weber kettle grill that has a temp a blacksmith would be proud of for a minute a side for a perfect sear.

    I'm not a meat eater but often when I make prime tenderloins for my wife's family that all eat it medium. Sous Vide and then on the 1200 deg searing section of my grill has them all loving it. With Sous Vide the meat is cooked so evenly and virtually impossible to screw up.
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  44. #44
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    first off I grill my steaks, the secret is....'know your grill' ! So for the thickness I stated (anything less and you're not a steak person) my timing yields what I stated. Now my son for Christmas Eve goes the extra mile and does prime, dry aged NY Strips 'Sous Vide' and finishes them off on his Weber kettle grill that has a temp a blacksmith would be proud of for a minute a side for a perfect sear.

    i got to give it, knowing the grill is key. you seem to know how you want your steak and have a predictable and repeatable system. thats all about, i wish to try your steak!
    as for sous vide, while it has a very predictable and very good outcome, i went away from it. all that juice in the bag and the meat turns grey. some say it doesnt matter, but objectively it does alter the meat. so does seasoning prior to searing, be it 10 minutes or a full day.
    putting the steak at 30 deg celsius uncovered in the oven wont change the consistency nor does the meat sweat. again, 30 deg, not 32 or 35. it is a reversed system as sous vide, just not to the extend of it.
    then iron cast pan with enough of clarified butter, 3min each side at heat nr7 out of 9, then turn off the heat, add butter, spices, salt and herbs and keep turning and turning the steak for a minute.
    not disputing, just from steaklover to steaklovers, one way to do it medium rare with a brown tasty crust without any black burned parts.

  45. #45
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute View Post
    Very possible Tom. The brain is a complex thing!
    And what's most important, no two people have the same unique brain anatomy.
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  46. #46
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    Re: Burn in

    Interesting those claiming burn in is imagination but I can't get my system to continue improving past thepoint of burn in, maybe that's limited imagination But, based on all the naysayer's theories my system should be the best in the world to me, I will it so, it just doesn't seem to work out that way, I always hear systems that still sound different and sometimes I even prefer, hmmmmmm I also wonder why burn in varies, maybe attention span is short that day or week or month.

    Anyone keep track of nutritional guidelines over the years, just because someone with credentials after their name writes something it doesn't make it true, even electrical engineers don't agree in their field.. So I'm sure no one's mind will change here, I can definitely vouch for mine.

    I really love those who claim I'm biased by the looks, well maybe if I had that luxury but your claim doesn't hold water when vision is out of the equation. I don't believe that other mind stuff either.
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  47. #47
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute View Post
    I wish every day in my mind my car was a Ferrari but it has yet to happen.
    Your car needs to burn in more.
    Just a mid Fi guy -

    Updated APT Holman pre & Onkyo Integra M506RS electronics. Optonica RP3636 TT w Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso DTI & Blackbird carts, Sony DVP-S7700 CD player, Upgraded Vandersteen 2CI, Tekton Impact & Lore S speakers. Home made wires & cables and it all works for me.

  48. #48
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by BobInWI View Post
    Your car needs to burn in more.
    And so does the wallet
    2chl : Pass Xa-30.5, W4S STP, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, VPI Classic, Manley Chinook, Bryston CD, BHA-1, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105.

  49. #49
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    And so does the wallet
    well that explains the hole in ones britches !

    as for burn in and car wishes perhaps you made the list ??

    Here's Why C5 Corvette Z06 Prices are About to Rise (Hagerty Bull Market 2023) - CorvetteForum
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  50. #50
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    Re: Burn in

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    well that explains the hole in ones britches !

    as for burn in and car wishes perhaps you made the list ??

    Here's Why C5 Corvette Z06 Prices are About to Rise (Hagerty Bull Market 2023) - CorvetteForum
    Can't even get out of the Vette anymore. But talk about burn in, F150 Lariat Lightning $107k

    But like anything expensive, those that buy always seem to want to support their $$ spent and rarely say negative things about their purchase.
    2chl : Pass Xa-30.5, W4S STP, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, VPI Classic, Manley Chinook, Bryston CD, BHA-1, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105.

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