Thread: Burn in
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November 28, 2022, 09:37 AM #1
Burn in
Ok guys - when you get a new piece of gear/cable to you burn in right away or do you just let in burn in over time through normal play?
Curios what others do.
I put it on 24/7 burn in and track notes and burn-in time at 25 hour increments on a spreadsheet. I also typically will put at least 300 to 350 hours on it before serious listening commences.
As an example, my Luxman 509x really opened up at 275 hours, but at 350 hours this weekend I noticed it developed a delicacy in the way it presented the music and seemed more musical."We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff
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November 28, 2022, 10:04 AM #2
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Re: Burn in
And then some of us don't do anything.
It is what it is and for just listening to music it doesn't matter.
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November 28, 2022, 10:52 AM #3
Re: Burn in
I let the time go naturally for the most part since I just don't leave electrical devices running if not actually in use.
It had been a long time since I had purchased anything new that would possibly benefit from burn in - break in, but over the last 3 years everything is new.
My Fynes took a long time to settle in. It also took my ears and brain many hours to "burn in" to a totally new and different speaker and sound characteristics. Out of the box, Bass was not right and there was some in your face qualities with kick drum and snare shots that took a while to go away. I would say somewhere between 300 and 500 hours allowed them to settle in. Once my hearing had adjusted to the speakers, it was much easier to hear the changes which went from bad to good to worse to better and now great. One thing I did was play lots of Bass Heavy tracks and one day I could swear the sound got better after playing Marcus Miller M2 at good volume.
When I got my Luxman, I did not pay as much attention because it was already the best sound I ever had. But, it did change over time, no idea on the hours, and I noticed similar changes as OP.
Next was a new Rotel 1572. Again out of the box the best CD Player I had owned replacing the 1072 workhorse. I did not pay much attention to burn in on the CDP.
Lastly I got a pair of Nordost XLRs to patch the Rotel to the Lux since they were both balanced. Mike used the Nordost Vidar on them before he sent them out. The Vidar is supposed to burn them in prior to use. I was replacing some older Synergistic Research Kaleidoscope ICs and at first listen, the Nordosts sounded like Crap. Ii gave them some time to settle in, maybe they were cold
Again I did not count the hours but they became more detailed and tighter with some time.-----------------
Brian
Main System - Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables
Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables
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November 28, 2022, 12:19 PM #4
Re: Burn in
yeah baby, another dumpster fire / train wreck in the making !!
Cheers ! …. Dave
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November 28, 2022, 12:25 PM #5
Re: Burn in
"We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff
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November 28, 2022, 01:43 PM #6
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November 28, 2022, 02:02 PM #7
Re: Burn in
-----------------
Brian
Main System - Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables
Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables
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November 28, 2022, 02:16 PM #8
Re: Burn in
understood, but auditory recall and the ability to pinpoint after that many hours is VoDoo. I'm not disputing the 'break-in' of an electromechanical device, rather some of the absurd claims that some audiophiles make.
in the end I couldn't care less what anyone wants to believe in, Santa, the Easter Bunny, whatever ..........Cheers ! …. Dave
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November 28, 2022, 10:20 PM #9
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Re: Burn in
Most of my electronics I just break in by normal listening. Speakers I will let run while I'm not home or overnight at a low level to put some hours on them. I had a set of Dynaudio I thought would never break in, the bass was there but so tight you just knew they needed more time, plus, they didn't sound like they did in the demo. They eventually came around but they were the longest audio piece I ever had to break in.
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November 28, 2022, 11:18 PM #10
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Re: Burn in
Had 2 pair of speakers, both from the same mfr.
One pair changed subtly over time.
The other pair changed quite dramatically. The change was obvious.
I did/ do nothing special for break in.Just a mid Fi guy -
Updated APT Holman pre & Onkyo Integra M506RS electronics. Optonica RP3636 TT w Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso DTI & Blackbird carts, Sony DVP-S7700 CD player, Upgraded Vandersteen 2CI, Tekton Impact & Lore S speakers. Home made wires & cables and it all works for me.
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November 29, 2022, 09:46 AM #11
Re: Burn in
"We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff
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November 29, 2022, 09:52 AM #12
Re: Burn in
perfect......
Speakers I will let run while I'm not home or overnight at a low level to put some hours on them. I had a set of Dynaudio I thought would never break in, the bass was there but so tight you just knew they needed more time, plus, they didn't sound like they did in the demo. They eventually came around but they were the longest audio piece I ever had to break in.Cheers ! …. Dave
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November 29, 2022, 11:07 AM #13
Re: Burn in
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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November 29, 2022, 12:27 PM #14
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Re: Burn in
I wasn't clear. Speakers are from the same mfgr but different speakers. 1 pair uses SEAS drivers & the other is Eminence (I think).
The Seas speakers took over 50 hours to settle in. Changes during that process were very noticeable & a big surprise to me.
At the time. I had not considered break in as a real "thing".Just a mid Fi guy -
Updated APT Holman pre & Onkyo Integra M506RS electronics. Optonica RP3636 TT w Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso DTI & Blackbird carts, Sony DVP-S7700 CD player, Upgraded Vandersteen 2CI, Tekton Impact & Lore S speakers. Home made wires & cables and it all works for me.
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November 29, 2022, 12:33 PM #15
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Re: Burn in
And considering selling one pair & moving upmarket w the same mfgr.
I've had enough speakers to know that there's plenty of brands that I just don't like the "house" sound.
With my equipment in my room listening w my ears to the music I prefer, I know what I like for the price I'm willing to pay.Just a mid Fi guy -
Updated APT Holman pre & Onkyo Integra M506RS electronics. Optonica RP3636 TT w Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso DTI & Blackbird carts, Sony DVP-S7700 CD player, Upgraded Vandersteen 2CI, Tekton Impact & Lore S speakers. Home made wires & cables and it all works for me.
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November 29, 2022, 05:24 PM #16
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Re: Burn in
You and I are on opposite sides of the fence on break in, period. No one gets used to the electronics, period. Either you will like it or not. There's been too many components I've given time to break in and either returned or sold because I didn't like or not happy with the sound. This wouldn't happen if if I was able to adjust to the sound.
Many electronics have frequency irregularities right out of the box that go away after some break in time. Speakers need time for the voice coils to loosen up, the bass is unusually tight until this happens, this can be heard, along with smoothing of overall frequency response.
It's absurd to me that anyone would believe we adjust to the sound of a component. If that was true we could buy anything and eventually like it.
Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables
HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
SVS PC13 Ultra
Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer
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November 29, 2022, 05:34 PM #17
Re: Burn in
Agreed
No one gets used to the electronics, period. Either you will like it or not. There's been too many components I've given time to break in and either returned or sold because I didn't like or not happy with the sound. This wouldn't happen if if I was able to adjust to the sound.
Many electronics have frequency irregularities right out of the box that go away after some break in time.
Speakers need time for the voice coils to loosen up, the bass is unusually tight until this happens, this can be heard, along with smoothing of overall frequency response.
It's absurd to me that anyone would believe we adjust to the sound of a component. If that was true we could buy anything and eventually like it.Cheers ! …. Dave
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November 29, 2022, 05:57 PM #18
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November 30, 2022, 10:17 AM #19
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November 30, 2022, 10:27 AM #20
Re: Burn in
Can I play??
abc
Just having some fun guys."We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff
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November 30, 2022, 10:29 AM #21
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November 30, 2022, 10:35 AM #22
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November 30, 2022, 06:02 PM #23
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November 30, 2022, 06:17 PM #24
Re: Burn in
Oh I agree when it comes to sun and cooking a good steak ! Enlighten me on what 'burns in' with respect your audio gear
the way to burn,....if you only listen 15 min a day, it will take a lot of time.Cheers ! …. Dave
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November 30, 2022, 06:49 PM #25
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Re: Burn in
i like the size of your steaks! but 5 minutes?? and why "only" 4 min the other side? do you think the heat went through and you need less?
i put mine in the oven for 4 hours at 30 deg celsius to get the core tempered and then 3 min each side.
there is a lot of information in the web about burn in if you are willing to search. well, lol, you will find a lot of friends as well who dont belive about. do you belive in burn in for motors? batteries?
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November 30, 2022, 07:07 PM #26
Re: Burn in
Guys, guys....we all know the REAL question is whether you cook you steaks North to South or East to West.
"We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff
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November 30, 2022, 07:25 PM #27
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Re: Burn in
no jokes about steaks please!
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November 30, 2022, 07:44 PM #28
Re: Burn in
"We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff
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November 30, 2022, 09:35 PM #29
Re: Burn in
first off I grill my steaks, the secret is....'know your grill' ! So for the thickness I stated (anything less and you're not a steak person) my timing yields what I stated. Now my son for Christmas Eve goes the extra mile and does prime, dry aged NY Strips 'Sous Vide' and finishes them off on his Weber kettle grill that has a temp a blacksmith would be proud of for a minute a side for a perfect sear.
there is a lot of information in the web about burn in if you are willing to search. well, lol, you will find a lot of friends as well who dont belive about.
do you belive in burn in for motors? batteries?Cheers ! …. Dave
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December 1, 2022, 09:53 AM #30
Re: Burn in
When I break in electronics I am breaking in the connection between my wallet and my cerebral cortex.
Tom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Video:
MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
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December 1, 2022, 10:02 AM #31
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December 1, 2022, 04:43 PM #322chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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December 2, 2022, 11:50 AM #33
Re: Burn in
Our thoughts can create reality. If you believe that electronics will sound better after break in then you will experience this as fact. If you don’t you won’t.
Disclaimer: I’m not a psychologist but I play one on TV.Tom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Video:
MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
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December 2, 2022, 12:01 PM #34
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December 2, 2022, 12:11 PM #35
Re: Burn in
I have no opinion on the audibility of break in because it is an individual personal experience.
I just noted that if you believe in it it will be true, if you don’t it won’t.
Lots of background on this phenomenon. Here’s one example:
How Your Thinking Creates Your Reality | Psychology TodayTom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Video:
MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
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December 2, 2022, 12:15 PM #36
Re: Burn in
Tom, well stated and I basically agree.
Cheers ! …. Dave
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December 2, 2022, 12:19 PM #37
Re: Burn in
<putting on philosophical hat and not an argumentative one> But what happens when someone like myself DIDN'T believe in it and then experience showed me otherwise. And how can we explain me hearing no change until 275 hours (where as on other gear it happens at different times) and then my wife who doesn't care about anything audio, and whom I gave no heads up on burn in also commented?
Again - just a philosophical post not argumentative one. I wish every day in my mind my car was a Ferrari but it has yet to happen."We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff
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December 2, 2022, 12:23 PM #38
Re: Burn in
I find the subject of cognitive science fascinating. We really do know a lot about how the brain works. We may not like the answers and that’s ok. Audio is a rich environment in which to observe how these strong belief systems play out. Throw in a little anonymity and things get pretty interesting.
Tom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Video:
MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
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December 2, 2022, 12:29 PM #39
Re: Burn in
Tom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Video:
MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
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December 2, 2022, 12:34 PM #40
Re: Burn in
Michael are you sure it wasn't at hour 274 ??
On a serious note and to answer your question, Toms link to the article is but one resource to show the power of 'thinking your way to the reality of a change'. You're pre-disposed to think , that a 'burn in' will yield the 'ahh moment', so @ hour 275 your brain said, 'ok let's get this over with, bingo' !
Hey, at the end of the day it's all good as I've said before. This debate will never be settled in a forum discussion so I'm off to put some Neatsfoot oil on my grandsons baseball glove to help it break-in ! I know that's for real !!Cheers ! …. Dave
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December 2, 2022, 12:42 PM #41
Re: Burn in
"We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff
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December 2, 2022, 12:44 PM #42
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December 2, 2022, 01:23 PM #43
Re: Burn in
[QUOTE=Mikado463;354907]first off I grill my steaks, the secret is....'know your grill' ! So for the thickness I stated (anything less and you're not a steak person) my timing yields what I stated. Now my son for Christmas Eve goes the extra mile and does prime, dry aged NY Strips 'Sous Vide' and finishes them off on his Weber kettle grill that has a temp a blacksmith would be proud of for a minute a side for a perfect sear.
I'm not a meat eater but often when I make prime tenderloins for my wife's family that all eat it medium. Sous Vide and then on the 1200 deg searing section of my grill has them all loving it. With Sous Vide the meat is cooked so evenly and virtually impossible to screw up.Synology 1019D+ - SGC Sonictransporter I9 w Roon/HQ Player- UltraRendu- PBD Stream IF to Playback Designs MPS5 via fiber optic - ARC 40th Anniversary Pre - ARC 610 T's - Martin Logan CLX's - 4 Martin Logan Depth i Subs - Shunyata Hydra, DIY PCOCC interconnects, speaker cables and power cords with Furutech terminations. Blue Jean CAT 6's between front end equipment.
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Acoustically treated room with one permanent chair.
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December 4, 2022, 07:17 PM #44
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Re: Burn in
i got to give it, knowing the grill is key. you seem to know how you want your steak and have a predictable and repeatable system. thats all about, i wish to try your steak!
as for sous vide, while it has a very predictable and very good outcome, i went away from it. all that juice in the bag and the meat turns grey. some say it doesnt matter, but objectively it does alter the meat. so does seasoning prior to searing, be it 10 minutes or a full day.
putting the steak at 30 deg celsius uncovered in the oven wont change the consistency nor does the meat sweat. again, 30 deg, not 32 or 35. it is a reversed system as sous vide, just not to the extend of it.
then iron cast pan with enough of clarified butter, 3min each side at heat nr7 out of 9, then turn off the heat, add butter, spices, salt and herbs and keep turning and turning the steak for a minute.
not disputing, just from steaklover to steaklovers, one way to do it medium rare with a brown tasty crust without any black burned parts.
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December 5, 2022, 11:21 AM #45
Re: Burn in
2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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December 5, 2022, 04:11 PM #46
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Re: Burn in
Interesting those claiming burn in is imagination but I can't get my system to continue improving past thepoint of burn in, maybe that's limited imagination But, based on all the naysayer's theories my system should be the best in the world to me, I will it so, it just doesn't seem to work out that way, I always hear systems that still sound different and sometimes I even prefer, hmmmmmm I also wonder why burn in varies, maybe attention span is short that day or week or month.
Anyone keep track of nutritional guidelines over the years, just because someone with credentials after their name writes something it doesn't make it true, even electrical engineers don't agree in their field.. So I'm sure no one's mind will change here, I can definitely vouch for mine.
I really love those who claim I'm biased by the looks, well maybe if I had that luxury but your claim doesn't hold water when vision is out of the equation. I don't believe that other mind stuff either.Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables
HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
SVS PC13 Ultra
Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer
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December 7, 2022, 11:02 PM #47
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Just a mid Fi guy -
Updated APT Holman pre & Onkyo Integra M506RS electronics. Optonica RP3636 TT w Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso DTI & Blackbird carts, Sony DVP-S7700 CD player, Upgraded Vandersteen 2CI, Tekton Impact & Lore S speakers. Home made wires & cables and it all works for me.
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December 8, 2022, 11:20 AM #482chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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December 8, 2022, 12:09 PM #49
Re: Burn in
well that explains the hole in ones britches !
as for burn in and car wishes perhaps you made the list ??
Here's Why C5 Corvette Z06 Prices are About to Rise (Hagerty Bull Market 2023) - CorvetteForumCheers ! …. Dave
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December 8, 2022, 01:04 PM #50
Re: Burn in
2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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