Welcome to the AudioShark Forums.
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 151 to 162 of 162
  1. #151
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts
    270

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post

    A power cord is not excluded from Ohm's Law... But laws and rules are sometimes broken? Superconductors ARE excluded from OHMs law. You talk about the voltage drop and having adequate gauge of conductors to realize full potential. I agree. A power cord has to be sufficient to meet specs as advertised if it is included. At the same time, let's not ignore the often cheap FUSE after the power cord that also heats up and its cold resistance is different from its HOT resistance... The dichotomy of having a multi-thousand dollar power cord with an often rather cheap FUSE in line with the whole equation is a bit absurd NO?



    My career with electronics was indeed brief. I was field rep that would fix computers and then became one of the most valuable bench techs because I was the only one that actually could troubleshoot and diagnose down to component level, while the other techs were field "board swappers" and would bring them back to me from the field to fix...

    I had a lot of fun with electronics but I went back for further education and changed over to medical field where my passion for electronic equipment was fused with medicine and diagnostic imaging of patients utilizing multi-million dollar equipment to get a glimpse into a human body from the inside... That always fascinated me and I enjoyed my career. I often discussed many topics with the medical equipment engineers and since I was working with equipment that was utilizing "superconductors", which always intrigued me, there were many great conversations that took place.

    You see, when you have power cables resembling actual Anaconda for a "real reason", that actually can physically move from the pulsing gradients of the superconductor magnet, which is providing 1.5 Tesla or 30,000 times the strength of the magnetic field of the Earth and the power pulses or "switching currents" flowing through the cables that are actually "audible", well, power cords for my 35w in Triode mode power amplifier is just silly by comparison... So do vibration levels of my PrimaLuna sitting perched on its rack with about 65-75dB of Jazz softly playing in the background...

    Not to say that any of that is not important in audio, it is but we do like to overdramatize things in audio which is often used for the obvious and in my opinion "as a person who values honesty and integrity in people", simply used for the bad marketing and exploitation of certain concepts as well as straight up pseudo-science claims and some pure snake oil in the traditional sense of the word, for $$$$ profit.... As if a $10K power cord will rock anyone's world in the context of any system...


    But I digress...


    NASA was an example used because I thought it would be an extreme and obvious application of putting electronic components to the test. Stress, vibration, shockwaves, temperature extremes, glitch inducing levels of radiation....

    If NASA can get around those, surely we can get around the bit of microphonics present in some low grade or poor choice for the application components. Place your creations on a shaker table and break out the oscilloscope before calling the project done?


    What does NASA do?


    The primary purpose of most dynamic tests of spacecraft is the simulation of the flight dynamic
    environments, which are typically so severe as to cause failure of electronic components,
    mechanisms, optics, and structures that were not specifically designed to survive these
    environments (NASA-HDBK-7005, Dynamic Environmental Criteria).

    These high levels of
    vibration and sound are generated by the launch vehicle and other sources, such as the firing of
    pyrotechnic devices or the impact of a spacecraft landing, as in the case of the Mars Exploration
    Rover (MER) spacecraft (Coleman and Davis, 2004).

    In the case of flight microphonics, which
    are vibrations caused by the operation of on-board equipment, the vibration test levels are
    usually not so high as to cause failure but rather degradation in the performance of sensitive
    instruments.

    The most straightforward way of testing for these dynamic environments would be
    to exactly simulate the flight environment, but this is not appropriate in most cases. Rather, the
    tests typically represent a simulation of the dynamic environments defined from a statistical
    analysis of many missions and many different operational conditions.

    It is also common practice
    to define the flight environments using descriptors that can be reasonably specified and
    controlled, e.g., random vibration power spectral densities (PSDs), one-third octave band
    acoustic levels, or shock response spectra (SRSs) (NASA-HDBK-7005).



    There isn't much more to add other than if I was an Audio Designer, I would certainly pay attention and run some tests to see how audible vibration levels really are and document my findings. If the oscilloscope is not showing much action from a preamp/amp being on a shaker table, then there is nothing to worry about? If it is, we can narrow it down and take care of it with either good isolation measures such as the steps you mentioned in your creations or we switch to higher level, microphonic free products.

    My own PrimaLuna uses French Tinfoil caps SCR and since I am happy with the resolution, musicality and engagement qualities of my integrated, I assume the vibrations are not manifesting anything worth talking about in my own system.
    I agree with that last statement!

    As annoying as it is (when you see that there is something to the 'fusers'), its easy enough to measure the voltage drop across a fuse holder. I stay away from boutique fuses though as we've seen them not blow at the rated value, not available in slow blow, not available in the correct rating, and some have a Teflon tube around the element, allowing it to continue to conduct as the metal goes from solid to molten and beyond. Because of the lower voltage drop I expect less effect from a fuse. I prefer Buss or Littlefuse and that is what we recommend to our customers. Voltage drop (and its resulting heat) is also why people often garner improvement by replacing duplex outlets with higher quality units like Hubble.

    When the volume is so low you're certainly not going to get much in the way of vibration or power cords. Being a rocker from the 70s I often play the volume quite high even on classical bits (I played bass in several orchestras). Sometimes I need the volume to be convinced. At those higher sound pressures is when vibration starts to make itself known. At least for the present, its apparent my gear is drawing more power than yours which makes the power cords more critical.

    The NASA stuff is interesting but a Red Herring, owing to their techniques designed to prevent vibration from being a problem.

    We don't even use NASA soldering techniques! They work great in space, but if your product has to be reliable in a tropical environment you don't do things that way.

  2. #152

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by atmasphere View Post
    I agree with that last statement!

    As annoying as it is (when you see that there is something to the 'fusers'), its easy enough to measure the voltage drop across a fuse holder. I stay away from boutique fuses though as we've seen them not blow at the rated value, not available in slow blow, not available in the correct rating, and some have a Teflon tube around the element, allowing it to continue to conduct as the metal goes from solid to molten and beyond. Because of the lower voltage drop I expect less effect from a fuse. I prefer Buss or Littlefuse and that is what we recommend to our customers. Voltage drop (and its resulting heat) is also why people often garner improvement by replacing duplex outlets with higher quality units like Hubble.

    When the volume is so low you're certainly not going to get much in the way of vibration or power cords. Being a rocker from the 70s I often play the volume quite high even on classical bits (I played bass in several orchestras). Sometimes I need the volume to be convinced. At those higher sound pressures is when vibration starts to make itself known. At least for the present, its apparent my gear is drawing more power than yours which makes the power cords more critical.

    The NASA stuff is interesting but a Red Herring, owing to their techniques designed to prevent vibration from being a problem.

    We don't even use NASA soldering techniques! They work great in space, but if your product has to be reliable in a tropical environment you don't do things that way.
    I used Mil-Spec soldering techniques and still do for my other hobbies. I had to learn while working for a company that was a supplier for DoD with all kinds of devices that no one but the engineers were ever privy to know. So I had no idea what it was that I was soldering and assembling...


    My amps are indeed non demanding but I did manage to melt a power cord by accident with my other hobby. Pulled a 10 amp rated cord off the shelf and realized it only after it started to stink that something was going wrong... Not much leeway with those cheaper Amazon cords since I was only pulling 12.5 amps continuous.

    It was a fun thread and I am a firm believer in an open dialogue among like minded enthusiasts that will either agree to disagree or find some common ground.

    Happy listening to everyone and may the Tin Whiskers phenomena never inflict your audio gear

  3. #153

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Willco View Post
    But what strikes me about this thread is how fragile and defensive the audiophile tribe can be when their particular world view is challenged.
    Of course "we" are! With all due respect to Mike, who is the owner of the forum and whom I am grateful to let me be a member of, this is "our" space, where "we" share the taste for audio.
    This type of troll attitude that denies everything and requires evidence for everything (although in reality, of course, don´t want to be convinced of anything because it is based on absolute truths), has spoiled the good atmosphere in several spaces all over the world.
    This space has managed to escape that, perhaps because the reference to sharks is scary.
    I would never participate in a forum whose goals I did not share, let alone to be against and try to ridicule the beliefs of its members, their convictions, their dreams.
    If the world depended on this type of people, it had long since crystallized in terms of discoveries and advances.
    Fortunately the world moves forward with people like atmasphere who, with an open mind, take charge of making their journey of discovery and putting it into practice.

    I admire the patience of trying to wield arguments in such a way as not to let the negativistic discourse get the upper hand.
    But I have no patience. For example, I no longer discuss whether cables have an influence. I agree to discuss and learn why they make a difference, types of conductors, geometry of construction, etc.
    I repeat, I have no patience. I'm out!

  4. #154
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    102

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    You win the "least intelligent post of the thread award" for this one and I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I guess the majority of musicians who are not audiophiles and most ARE NOT audiophiles, must not be serious about music?

    If you followed what I said earlier, I did mention I had "serious gear" so that by definition is caring about music. What did I imply by serious? How about 6 different pairs of Sonus Faber speakers, 5 pairs of various Wilson Audio speakers, Dynaudio, Martin Logan as well as my own hand built speakers in my youth. My current pair of speakers is Harbeth 30.2 40th anniv. Same speakers that Puma Cat the "reviewer/Snunyata ambassador" on this forum uses.


    The pair of speakers before that, were the Wilson Audio Alexias with D'Agostino Momentum monoblocks in a custom built room with over $20k of acoustic treatments. Total investiment in that room with gear was over $200K. Serious enough or perhaps your personal seriousness levels exceeds it?

    I am currently enjoying my Harbeths with PrimaLuna Dialogue HP integrated running in triode mode or I can fire up my Luxman L590AXII Class A integrated if I feel like solid state.

    I am logging more than 60hrs a week on Roon since I have the luxury to work from home at my own pace and listen to any music I want all day long. I love streaming for that reason, it would get old cleaning and flipping records or even pulling CDs at that rate. I easily listen to 9-12 albums a day sometimes. If I feel like late night listening and don't want to disturb my wife, I have various headphones and both Tube and Class A headphone listening choices.

    Now, so if we are talking "serious" and being able to discern like the connoisseurs we are.... Was my prior system "better"? In absolute terms, YES. Do I not find my current system enjoyable because I have experienced better in my life? That is like saying I can no longer enjoy food because I had that steak at Wolfgang Puck's Cut steakhouse in Vegas a few times...

    ....
    Least intelligent post? If I'm wrong, I'd agree with you 100%. However, I'm bettin' I'm right about this.

    I hope you understand when I say your word that you take music seriously is not exactly evidence to support your claim that you take music seriously.

    More importantly, possessions alone are not evidence that somebody takes a matter seriously. For example. Some of the most passionate people for food are those that have little or none.

    Moreover, you say that you would never judge anybody by the amount they spend. Nor should you or anybody. Yet it seems that's exactly how you're asking us to judge you. I don't get that.

    Taking a matter seriously, primarily how passionate one may be, is about attitude and commitment and performing due dilengence and ususally the best evidence to demonstrate how serious (passionate) one claims to be is by their efforts and attempts to improve matters including failures and successes and their results. Not by their possessions. But in your case, using your own words, you acquire product and mission accomplished.

    I'm stickiin' to my guns on this one. You're a music lover.
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

  5. #155

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    Least intelligent post? If I'm wrong, I'd agree with you 100%. However, I'm bettin' I'm right about this.

    I hope you understand when I say your word that you take music seriously is not exactly evidence to support your claim that you take music seriously.

    More importantly, possessions alone are not evidence that somebody takes a matter seriously. For example. Some of the most passionate people for food are those that have little or none.

    Moreover, you say that you would never judge anybody by the amount they spend. Nor should you or anybody. Yet it seems that's exactly how you're asking us to judge you. I don't get that.

    Taking a matter seriously, primarily how passionate one may be, is about attitude and commitment and performing due dilengence and ususally the best evidence to demonstrate how serious (passionate) one claims to be is by their efforts and attempts to improve matters including failures and successes and their results. Not by their possessions. But in your case, using your own words, you acquire product and mission accomplished.

    I'm stickiin' to my guns on this one. You're a music lover.
    I am a music lover. I'll take that as a compliment. Many musicians are not audiophiles and do not have audio gear into the 5 or 6 figures yet they are the creators of the very music you and I enjoy. But we are in this hobby for more than just the music...

    Being an "audiophile", gear was obviously always important and so was optimizing the system.

    Over the 30 years of being in the hobby, I now have a very clear understanding of what constitutes good "system synergy" to my ears. Keep in mind that part is always very subjective and personal.

    It was not learned by acquiring one pair of speakers and calling it done. I already mentioned I had a few dozen different speakers and even more gear of brands from just about A-Z... The quest for that perfect sound was very much the goal.

    If I did not own it, I auditioned it, if not at home, then at one of the audio salons/dealers. Over 30 years of listening to various gear sure "tunes your ears up".

    I live in a geographical tri-state area where starting from the 80s, we were blessed with fantastic audio salons packed with new and preowned brands from mild to wild and we often brought gear, cables and tweaks home to audition for the weekends or longer. We were very active with my other audiophile buddies with comparing and discussing the various gear and cables and ran many blind tests for fun to see how how much impact cables and tweaks had on various systems of ours...

    If it wasn't a Krell component, then it would be a Mark Levinson, if not that, it would be Audio Research, or Spectral or Jeff Rowland... there was so much gear to audition, it was a never ending audiophile nervosa.. As long as one is active in this hobby, it seems the quest for the "elusive audio nirvana" should never end? Isn't that right?

    Have you ever asked yourself one simple question... What exactly is "Nirvana", where do I find it, how will I know I have arrived at the Pinnacle of my audio system? When you run out of money or get burned out? I reached that "pinnacle" some years back, a point where enough was truly enough... I got burned out from it all and took a nice long break from the hobby for almost 5 years.


    Many of audio stores are now gone. The hobby is not dead but it is not what it once was around here either. There are many reasons that I can give for that but it is beyond the scope of this post and is a different topic all together.


    My audiophile buddies from decades ago are not into it anymore. Guess it wasn't really about the music for them after all? They did enjoy the gear and the quest for sonic bliss and perfection... It's just that no one knows where that bullseye really is and by the simple fact that no speaker, gear, cable or a recording is perfect, it therefore can NEVER be achieved. But it is fun chasing that "ideal collection of gear" and I get that.

    I press on listening to more music than ever. My gear swapping days are over. It just doesn't excite me to change speakers every six months...


    So I no longer ask myself questions of "How do I constantly improve my sound", I have reached a point where I said " I am perfectly happy with what I have".

    But if the old adage "It's about the journey, not the destination" suits you better and that "audiophile spirit" still burns strong, by all means, keep kindling those flames of passion and press on!

  6. #156
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts
    270

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Have you ever asked yourself one simple question... What exactly is "Nirvana", where do I find it, how will I know I have arrived at the Pinnacle of my audio system? When you run out of money or get burned out? I reached that "pinnacle" some years back, a point where enough was truly enough... I got burned out from it all and took a nice long break from the hobby for almost 5 years.


    Many of audio stores are now gone. The hobby is not dead but it is not what it once was around here either. There are many reasons that I can give for that but it is beyond the scope of this post and is a different topic all together.


    My audiophile buddies from decades ago are not into it anymore. Guess it wasn't really about the music for them after all? They did enjoy the gear and the quest for sonic bliss and perfection... It's just that no one knows where that bullseye really is and by the simple fact that no speaker, gear, cable or a recording is perfect, it therefore can NEVER be achieved. But it is fun chasing that "ideal collection of gear" and I get that.

    I press on listening to more music than ever. My gear swapping days are over. It just doesn't excite me to change speakers every six months...


    So I no longer ask myself questions of "How do I constantly improve my sound", I have reached a point where I said " I am perfectly happy with what I have".

    But if the old adage "It's about the journey, not the destination" suits you better and that "audiophile spirit" still burns strong, by all means, keep kindling those flames of passion and press on!
    We've been working on a class D project for the last 4 years. Not using someone else's modules either- working entirely from scratch. We were awarded a patent back in November 2019. This project has taken a while- there were a lot of hurdles to jump. It was very obvious that if we didn't get this done, class D technology was now developed to the point that if you weren't onboard you were going to be left behind. We've finally had prototypes working for the last several months that are doing what we aimed for. I've taken one home and played it in my own system (with which I am entirely satisfied, although it appears I'll need a new cartridge fairly soon).

    Its nice to see that the class D is sounding very much like our regular OTL tube amps. Put another way, since the class D is nearly a perfect voltage source and has distortion over an order of magnitude lower, it should be fairly neutral and its great to hear that even our smallest OTL sounds extremely similar. I expect when the production is up and running I'll snag a pair for my system, not so much because they sound any different (and they don't) but simply because they draw a lot less power and make less heat. I'm not sure and don't care if this means our amps were on the right track all along or if we managed to make a solid state amp that sounds as good as our tube amps.

    But there has been a consistent loss of bass at the listening chair although no-where else in the room. To deal with that I talked to Duke at Audiokinesis, since he makes the best-known Distributed Bass Array subwoofer system known as The Swarm. I installed two of his subs (since my main speakers are good to 20Hz no worries) and that solved the bass at the listening chair issue (the standing waves were broken up).

    I think its good to be satisfied with what you have. From a viewpoint of life itself its a very healthy place to be!

  7. #157
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    102

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    I am a music lover. I'll take that as a compliment. Many musicians are not audiophiles and do not have audio gear into the 5 or 6 figures yet they are the creators of the very music you and I enjoy. But we are in this hobby for more than just the music...

    Being an "audiophile", gear was obviously always important and so was optimizing the system.

    Over the 30 years of being in the hobby, I now have a very clear understanding of what constitutes good "system synergy" to my ears. Keep in mind that part is always very subjective and personal.

    It was not learned by acquiring one pair of speakers and calling it done. I already mentioned I had a few dozen different speakers and even more gear of brands from just about A-Z... The quest for that perfect sound was very much the goal.

    If I did not own it, I auditioned it, if not at home, then at one of the audio salons/dealers. Over 30 years of listening to various gear sure "tunes your ears up".

    I live in a geographical tri-state area where starting from the 80s, we were blessed with fantastic audio salons packed with new and preowned brands from mild to wild and we often brought gear, cables and tweaks home to audition for the weekends or longer. We were very active with my other audiophile buddies with comparing and discussing the various gear and cables and ran many blind tests for fun to see how how much impact cables and tweaks had on various systems of ours...

    If it wasn't a Krell component, then it would be a Mark Levinson, if not that, it would be Audio Research, or Spectral or Jeff Rowland... there was so much gear to audition, it was a never ending audiophile nervosa.. As long as one is active in this hobby, it seems the quest for the "elusive audio nirvana" should never end? Isn't that right?

    Have you ever asked yourself one simple question... What exactly is "Nirvana", where do I find it, how will I know I have arrived at the Pinnacle of my audio system? When you run out of money or get burned out? I reached that "pinnacle" some years back, a point where enough was truly enough... I got burned out from it all and took a nice long break from the hobby for almost 5 years.


    Many of audio stores are now gone. The hobby is not dead but it is not what it once was around here either. There are many reasons that I can give for that but it is beyond the scope of this post and is a different topic all together.


    My audiophile buddies from decades ago are not into it anymore. Guess it wasn't really about the music for them after all? They did enjoy the gear and the quest for sonic bliss and perfection... It's just that no one knows where that bullseye really is and by the simple fact that no speaker, gear, cable or a recording is perfect, it therefore can NEVER be achieved. But it is fun chasing that "ideal collection of gear" and I get that.

    I press on listening to more music than ever. My gear swapping days are over. It just doesn't excite me to change speakers every six months...


    So I no longer ask myself questions of "How do I constantly improve my sound", I have reached a point where I said " I am perfectly happy with what I have".

    But if the old adage "It's about the journey, not the destination" suits you better and that "audiophile spirit" still burns strong, by all means, keep kindling those flames of passion and press on!
    I think back to the Mar/Apr 2009 issue of The Absolute Sound where editior-in-chief Robert Harley said, "I believe something catastrophic occurs at the recording mic's diaphragm such that much of the music never reaches the recording." Paraphrased. He then went on to describe an experiment conducted by Ed Meitner of EMM Labs. Harley didn't say it but I'm guessing he was just parrotting Meitner's conclusion.

    Then there's Jonathan Valin also of TAS who in circa 2008 said, "We are lucky if even our very best playback systems are able to capture just 15% of the magic of the live performance." Paraphrased. More than once after sharing this quote with friends their response was even 15% was optimistic.

    These are two individuals who probably have had as much and perhaps more access to equipment than you.

    Maybe you could reach out to them and share how you're able to achieve a state of sonic nirvana with your acquire and mission accomplished strategy? No doubt they're missing the boat here.
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

  8. #158

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by atmasphere View Post
    We've been working on a class D project for the last 4 years. Not using someone else's modules either- working entirely from scratch. We were awarded a patent back in November 2019. This project has taken a while- there were a lot of hurdles to jump. It was very obvious that if we didn't get this done, class D technology was now developed to the point that if you weren't onboard you were going to be left behind. We've finally had prototypes working for the last several months that are doing what we aimed for. I've taken one home and played it in my own system (with which I am entirely satisfied, although it appears I'll need a new cartridge fairly soon).

    Its nice to see that the class D is sounding very much like our regular OTL tube amps. Put another way, since the class D is nearly a perfect voltage source and has distortion over an order of magnitude lower, it should be fairly neutral and its great to hear that even our smallest OTL sounds extremely similar. I expect when the production is up and running I'll snag a pair for my system, not so much because they sound any different (and they don't) but simply because they draw a lot less power and make less heat. I'm not sure and don't care if this means our amps were on the right track all along or if we managed to make a solid state amp that sounds as good as our tube amps.

    But there has been a consistent loss of bass at the listening chair although no-where else in the room. To deal with that I talked to Duke at Audiokinesis, since he makes the best-known Distributed Bass Array subwoofer system known as The Swarm. I installed two of his subs (since my main speakers are good to 20Hz no worries) and that solved the bass at the listening chair issue (the standing waves were broken up).

    I think its good to be satisfied with what you have. From a viewpoint of life itself its a very healthy place to be!
    How is this class D project going to impact Atmasphere?

  9. #159
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    549

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I haven’t kept up with this thread entirely, but I’ve enjoyed Ralph’s posts.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Mike - Unless "Ralph" signs himself as Ralph most readers don't know who you are talking about! Could you enlighten the uninitiated please?

    Thanks. Peter
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  10. #160
    Audioshark
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    30,027

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    Mike - Unless "Ralph" signs himself as Ralph most readers don't know who you are talking about! Could you enlighten the uninitiated please?

    Thanks. Peter
    Atma Sphere - About us


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  11. #161
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    549

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by atmasphere View Post
    We've been working on a class D project for the last 4 years. Not using someone else's modules either- working entirely from scratch. We were awarded a patent back in November 2019. This project has taken a while- there were a lot of hurdles to jump. It was very obvious that if we didn't get this done, class D technology was now developed to the point that if you weren't onboard you were going to be left behind. We've finally had prototypes working for the last several months that are doing what we aimed for. I've taken one home and played it in my own system (with which I am entirely satisfied, although it appears I'll need a new cartridge fairly soon).

    Its nice to see that the class D is sounding very much like our regular OTL tube amps. Put another way, since the class D is nearly a perfect voltage source and has distortion over an order of magnitude lower, it should be fairly neutral and its great to hear that even our smallest OTL sounds extremely similar. I expect when the production is up and running I'll snag a pair for my system, not so much because they sound any different (and they don't) but simply because they draw a lot less power and make less heat. I'm not sure and don't care if this means our amps were on the right track all along or if we managed to make a solid state amp that sounds as good as our tube amps.

    But there has been a consistent loss of bass at the listening chair although no-where else in the room. To deal with that I talked to Duke at Audiokinesis, since he makes the best-known Distributed Bass Array subwoofer system known as The Swarm. I installed two of his subs (since my main speakers are good to 20Hz no worries) and that solved the bass at the listening chair issue (the standing waves were broken up).

    I think its good to be satisfied with what you have. From a viewpoint of life itself its a very healthy place to be!
    How refreshing to hear some sensible comments (as opposed to ones based on total ignorance) regarding Class D amplification. Also how refreshing to hear from a long established manufacturer of valve amps admit that the future may be with Class D.

    I made a conscious decision 3 years ago to move away from valves to solid state but kept an open mind on what SS technology I would go for. It all depended on how well the various alternatives compared sound-wise with my SET experiences - 845 and PX-25, although I did own a 6C33C-based OTL several years ago.

    I bought or home tested a dozen amps of various types but ended up with a very satisfying Class D amp. Despite it's relatively over-the-top output (compared with my valve amps), it excels with my Avantgarde horn speakers.

    I admire you for "starting from scratch" as Class D must require a huge amount of R&D and also because excellent off-the-shelf amp modules are really pretty cheap now. It must be tempting to find the best existing module and make your own mods (with the maker's approval) to get the sound you are looking for - presumably as near to your OTLs as possible.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  12. #162
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts
    270

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    I think back to the Mar/Apr 2009 issue of The Absolute Sound where editior-in-chief Robert Harley said, "I believe something catastrophic occurs at the recording mic's diaphragm such that much of the music never reaches the recording." Paraphrased. He then went on to describe an experiment conducted by Ed Meitner of EMM Labs. Harley didn't say it but I'm guessing he was just parrotting Meitner's conclusion.

    Then there's Jonathan Valin also of TAS who in circa 2008 said, "We are lucky if even our very best playback systems are able to capture just 15% of the magic of the live performance." Paraphrased. More than once after sharing this quote with friends their response was even 15% was optimistic.

    These are two individuals who probably have had as much and perhaps more access to equipment than you.

    Maybe you could reach out to them and share how you're able to achieve a state of sonic nirvana with your acquire and mission accomplished strategy? No doubt they're missing the boat here.
    IME the ability of microphones to capture the musical experience is so good they can easily fool the most jaundiced audiophile. I've seen it happen more than once (when said audiophiles were listening to headphones)! But record off of that mic feed and the result is not the same- IME again the limitation is in the media. But the way speakers interact in a room is a big deal too.

    @Hear Here

    IME if you try to tailor the sound you are probably adding distortion. It seems a better idea to just go for the best performance that you can.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.

AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.

The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.

At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.

We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!

Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com

Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team

The biggest secret has been revealed?!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •