Thread: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

Looks like the old Tannoy US distributor, the new Tannoy US distributor and those who used to work for Tannoy are all going at it over on the forum after the pretty poor review the speakers just received.

Remember Tannoy dropped the old distributor to go with the new one who is a former employee of the previous distributor so it's all very soap-operish.


Tannoy Stirling III LZ Special Edition | What Hi-Fi? Forum

Now the new US distributor is calling the UK distributor inept. Wow!

Fyne must be so proud of their new distributor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

who cares, so many options out there

Leave the drama on the other forum where it belongs.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Mike

Fyne must be so proud of their new distributor.

Agreed.

I bet the UK distributor is going to deal with the US distributor for what he said as well.

Originally Posted by Porsche

who cares, so many options out there

and

Originally Posted by SCAudiophile

Leave the drama on the other forum where it belongs.

Agreed. Plus, whomever the distributors of Tannoy are, they're focused on their business objectives, and very like don't care about what are merely the opinions of members of an internet audio forum. And, we know the colloquial saying about "opinions..."

Moreover, "opinions" are not actionable from a product development business perspective. A disciplined understanding and articulation of customer requirements (aka "VOC"), KJ analysis, SSI survey rankings, and Kano Analysis resulting in disciplined and data-driven product requirements development...are. Then, after that, a audio products company has to focus on putting their product design embodiments based on these product requirements into...statistical process control in Manufacturing and QC to ensure consistent Quality. This time and effort is much better spent than worrying about an anecdotal set of "opinions" from an online audio forum with no clear articulation of customer requirements, much less being an actionable VOC data set with any statistical power.

IMHO, there's much more interesting things to focus on, e.g. the first successful landing of a spacecraft on the Moon in over 50 years.

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

and

IMHO, there's much more interesting things to focus on, e.g. the first successful landing of a spacecraft on the Moon in over 50 years.

Then you don't have to read what's going on.

I think it's interesting to watch a former employee from a dealer/distributor leave his company, steal one of its main lines out from under him, then implode all in the matter of a few months when the two of them go to war.

Then that first dealer goes after another brand just to screw his former employee.

Finally, the new distributor goes after another distributor and calls him inept just because the new product by the company got a terrible review.

Finally, all involved appear to promote things about the brand that, shall we say, are questionable at best.

You guys can just ignore it, but for many others it's fascinating to watch. If you want to talk about spacecraft on the moon, I'm sure there are forums for that other than an audio forum. . I'm sure people could say things such as the spacecraft is more interesting to talk about than getting a new audio rack maybe?

For the rest of us, this topic has been a source of HUGE chatter over the last few months. No one is forcing you to read this or comment on it.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

Then you don't have to read what's going on.

I think it's interesting to watch a former employee from a dealer/distributor leave his company, steal one of its main lines out from under him, then implode all in the matter of a few months when the two of them go to war.

Then that first dealer goes after another brand just to screw his former employee.

Finally, the new distributor goes after another distributor and calls him inept just because the new product by the company got a terrible review.

Finally, all involved appear to promote things about the brand that, shall we say, are questionable at best.

You guys can just ignore it, but for many others it's fascinating to watch. If you want to talk about spacecraft on the moon, I'm sure there are forums for that other than an audio forum. . I'm sure people could say things such as the spacecraft is more interesting to talk about than getting a new audio rack maybe?

For the rest of us, this topic has been a source of HUGE chatter over the last few months. No one is forcing you to read this or comment on it.

drama queen

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

and



Agreed. Plus, whomever the distributors of Tannoy are, they're focused on their business objectives, and very like don't care about what are merely the opinions of members of an internet audio forum. And, we know the colloquial saying about "opinions..."

.

You missed the part where he went onto an international forum to attack another Tannoy distributor about something he knew nothing about.

You missed the part where he and Kevin got into a pissing contest and called each other names.

You missed the part where he said What Hi-fi must have reviewed the speakers wrong as they didn't like them.

Then he got banned from the forum only to be allow back on.

So much for him being "focused" on his business objectives. Just good forum watching to enjoy.

Funny how people with no interest in reading about specific topics take the time to reply that they don't want to read them.

Landing on the moon is another colossal waste of money with the current state of this world we live on. That money could be used to stop the Fentanyl issue and so much more.

@MichaelsMinute - Thanks for posting this since I have been interested in how this all plays out. I love my Fynes. Funny thing about that review is that Fyne speakers sound exactly that way when new, but the shoutiness does go away with the Fynes.

Originally Posted by Shadowfax

Funny how people with no interest in reading about specific topics take the time to reply that they don't want to read them.

Landing on the moon is another colossal waste of money with the current state of this world we live on. That money could be used to stop the Fentanyl issue and so much more.

@MichaelsMinute - Thanks for posting this since I have been interested in how this all plays out. I love my Fynes. Funny thing about that review is that Fyne speakers sound exactly that way when new, but the shoutiness does go away with the Fynes.

No prob.

I have no idea how much burn in they received and neither does the US distributor. He admits as much yet he still called the UK distributor inept.

From what people involved in Tannoy have told me and the pictures they have sent me, with the gutting of Tannoy over the last 7 years this review is no surprise that it came out so poorly.

It's sad to see such a storied brand suffering such a fate.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

No prob.

I have no idea how much burn in they received and neither does the US distributor. He admits as much yet he still called the UK distributor inept.

From what people involved in Tannoy have told me and the pictures they have sent me, with the gutting of Tannoy over the last 7 years this review is no surprise that it came out so poorly.

It's sad to see such a storied brand suffering such a fate.

When I saw the pics of their cabinets being built on the floor of some garage in another country I was pretty surprised. If a Manufacturer of a product refuses to say where that product is built, they should not be trusted. Even IF the Chinese built product sounds the same as a UK built product. If you cannot be up front and honest about your product, it is no surprise that product loses peoples interest and fails.

Originally Posted by Shadowfax

When I saw the pics of their cabinets being built on the floor of some garage in another country I was pretty surprised. If a Manufacturer of a product refuses to say where that product is built, they should not be trusted. Even IF the Chinese built product sounds the same as a UK built product. If you cannot be up front and honest about your product, it is no surprise that product loses peoples interest and fails.

Seeing the pictures that were shared with me of what Tannoy was actually sending to the US as "finished product" was mind boggling.

The defective rate and completely-unfinished-rate-yet-we-shipped-them-anyway of speakers they claimed to be receiving from Tannoy was unbelievable if true.

I don't know if it's true or not, but they sure did have a lot of photos and specific examples to tell about.

I won't even get into their claims of photo-shopped photos to include people at a factory yet it never supposedly happened (though they also made that claim publicly on forums as well).

I agree if something got a "bad" review from What Hi Fi something either went really bad or it's just a really undeniably bad product because WHF loves everything pretty much.

Tannoy Prestige speakers have been manufactured for many years (10+?) by Diora in Poland. So although not UK made, they were still UE made. Diora makes superb cabinets for many european manufacturers.

Check this vid (from 21:52s):



That was shot 3 weeks ago. Did anything change?

Originally Posted by Elberoth

That was shot 3 weeks ago. Did anything change?

Quite a bit has changed as has been documented.

Originally Posted by Shadowfax

When I saw the pics of their cabinets being built on the floor of some garage in another country I was pretty surprised. If a Manufacturer of a product refuses to say where that product is built, they should not be trusted. Even IF the Chinese built product sounds the same as a UK built product. If you cannot be up front and honest about your product, it is no surprise that product loses peoples interest and fails.

I was shown pictures showing speakers being received that were supposedly stained and covered in what look to be covered in urine. This was happening (supposedly from what they claim) quite a bit.

As it was explained to me, they had a customer receive a pair of Westminsters (~$54,000) speakers with this issue. When they then opened up their additional stock many suffered the same issue.

I was also shown pictures of speakers being received (supposedly) completely missing the driver with wires hanging out that were supposedly "ready to ship to the customer".

If this is true it is shooting yourself in the foot. Why would anyone do that? The mud slinging is not good for anyone involved.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

I was shown pictures showing speakers being received that were supposedly stained and covered in what look to be covered in urine. This was happening (supposedly from what they claim) quite a bit.

As it was explained to me, they had a customer receive a pair of Westminsters (~$54,000) speakers with this issue. When they then opened up their additional stock many suffered the same issue.

I was also shown pictures of speakers being received (supposedly) completely missing the driver with wires hanging out that were supposedly "ready to ship to the customer".

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

If this is true it is shooting yourself in the foot. Why would anyone do that? The mud slinging is not good for anyone involved.

Why would anyone do what?

Urinate or otherwise damage a product being assembled for sale? I can understand a flaw like bad connection, glitch in paint, etc. but you are talking sabotage.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

Why would anyone do what?

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Urinate or otherwise damage a product being assembled for sale? I can understand a flaw like bad connection, glitch in paint, etc. but you are talking sabotage.

I am not suggesting anything and simply sharing what was stated to me and the pictures shown to me. From what they told me they believe it was animals roaming the factory damaging the cabinets.

As they explained it when the distributor receives them, they need to pay for them whether they are damaged or not - they cannot send them back. He did not suggest sabotage, just lack of effective QC.

Kevin Deal himself (the former distributor up until a couple months ago) just publicly posted they have had to open every pair of Tannoy's they've sold in the last 3 years to conduct their own QC on them before they shipped.

Originally Posted by dznutz

Michael,

You have a tendency to post threads poking at topics and then when questioned about details and closure you simply redirect and turtle.

Youve now commented on these QC photos youve seen several times.

Now go ahead and post them here for everyone to see.

I also wonder if Kevin Deal ever told any customers about these QC issues before, during, or after the sale. I imagine not, or perhaps not until the very end of his tenure with them.

I've posted about this for months and this topic is every where now. That is hardly poking when many are openly talking about it. Others have been posting about it as well.

We've even had former very-high-up Tannoy employees themselves comment with specific info and details confirming all this. I've provided links to many of these conversations which are publicly available.

And I've done videos.

It seems there are many that simply keep their eyes closed and then cry they can't see. Talking about a topic people choose to not educate themselves on is not poking. They are free to think what they'd like.

There is no drama here except for that which the consistent-few are trying to create. This is an audio forum talking about a variety of audio topics. Nothing more, nothing less - even if some people think we should only be talking about moon landings.

Originally Posted by dznutz

Yet again, post the photos you have seen depicting these QC issues.

exactly, post the photos or as the saying goes, "it didn't happen", if you are going to be an investigative reporter than back it up with proof. like someone said earlier, all companies may have a flaw or issue every now an than but shipping speakers without drivers, speakers with piss all over them etc I find very hard to believe

just curious if these supposed QC issues and photos if they exist didn't come from the employees that started fyne

Originally Posted by dznutz

Yet again, post the photos you have seen depicting these QC issues.

Agreed. Impossible to document product quality and QC "failure modes*" without...statistically valid data.

BTW, "QC" does not create "quality". Quality Control, aka QC, is a set of documents, procedures, and inspections that verify with data intrinsic product functionality, features, and quality attribues (e.g. reliability, durability) and documenting that "finished goods" show conformance to Requirements.

The actual quality has to be "engineered-in". If it's not there, "QC" will not create it.

Def: Failure mode: anything that that can do wrong.

Originally Posted by dznutz

Yet again, post the photos you have seen depicting these QC issues.

There is no helping the perpetually blind. If after everything that has been posted by former Tannoy employees and distributors over the last several months hasn't helped, then you've already made up your mind to ignore what is around you.

That is certainly your right and privilege.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

There is no helping the perpetually blind. If after everything that has been posted by former Tannoy employees and distributors over the last several months hasn't helped, then you've already made up your mind to ignore what is around you.

That is certainly your right and privilege.

I'd like to see...the data.

Originally Posted by dznutz

Stop assuming what I think or believe, if you want to advertise youve seen photos of something very specific then post the photos for all interested to see.

Unlike you, Ive owned 4 different sets of Tannoys over the last 10 years, I can support this with personal photos of them in my room. So I can speak from experience. Now, back up the claims you are making.

👌 As we say in Science: "Show me the data."

Originally Posted by dznutz

Ive owned 4 different sets of Tannoys over the last 10 years, I can support this with personal photos of them in my room. So I can speak from experience.

Ahhhh.....the truth comes out. Now it makes sense.

You're creating drama over nothing as you're personally offended. The Tannoy fanboi who can't handle the thought your precious Tannoy may not be all you were led to believe or have somehow possibly changed for the negative.

I'll take what dealers, distributors and past management at Tannoy I've spoken to over your hurt fanboi feelings. Don't be mad at me for sharing what they have claimed and what some have stated publicly on forums because you don't want to hear it. No one is forcing you to read this thread.

You're creating all this drama and keeping your head in the sand to protect your ego.

I think you called Dizzie a "delicate flower" the other day. I think you need to look in the mirror. Now it makes so much sense as to why you're keeping your head in the sand over the last few months.

Enjoy your Tannoy's and save your attempts at drama. I'm not getting dragged into your personal battle to save your ego. I just don't care what you think. Believe what you will.

Have a nice night.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

Ahhhh.....the truth comes out. Now it makes sense.

You're creating drama over nothing as you're personally offended. The Tannoy fanboi who can't handle the thought your precious Tannoy may not be all you were led to believe.

I'll take what dealers, distributors and past management at Tannoy I've spoken to over your hurt fanboi feelings. Don't be mad at me for sharing what they have claimed and what some have stated publicly because you don't want to hear it. No one is forcing you to read this thread.

You're creating all this drama and keeping your head in the sand to protect your ego.

I think you called Dizzie a "delicate flower" the other day. I think you need to look in the mirror. Now it makes so much sense as to why you're keeping your head in the sand over the last few months.

Enjoy your Tannoy's and save your attempts at drama. I'm not getting dragged into your personal battle to save your ego. I just don't care what you think. Believe what you will.

Have a nice night.

you are so full of crap, if you had the pics you claim you have you would post it, the dude has had 4 pairs in 10 years, I think he would know if they had piss on them, missing a driver or had build/sound issues, only one that needs look in the mirror is you sport

Screenshot 2024-02-24 at 7.36.53 PM.png

Upscale Q issue.png

Originally Posted by dznutz

Ok, so clearly you do not have any photos.

of course not, an his one piece of proof comes from mister ethical, the distributor who dropped them for the company that was founded by ex employees, im sure its legit

post the photos

Originally Posted by dznutz

You continue to show how much of an !&$*# you are for constantly assuming when all that I have asked for is proof of what you profess.

I have owned more equipment in the last 15 years then you will in your entire life. I am a fanboi of nothing, especially not Tannoy.

Both pairs of GRF90's I received had quality issues. I noticed, but perhaps many owners would not. I could see that even then there was a turn for the worse as they began using walnut veneer, yet all marketing material stated solid wood. So rest assured I am no stranger to what has been said here, however, I need to see some proof, not just some empty words.

So again, lets see the photos.

I am in fact a Tannoy fanboy, but certainly I've also noted many quality issues with them, going back more than 10 years ago. Like you also stated, I noticed the issues - but perhaps others (including "professional" reviewers) did not. Funny side-story: few years ago I bought Tannoy Glenair 10's from TMR (the big Colorado-based reseller that claims to test everything). They were listed cheap, with detailed notes from prior owner on how to position them for decent bass response, and warnings about proper amp matching. Well they sounded beyond awful. Broken. I knew what they were supposed to sound like (really good), from prior experience. Turns out they drivers were wired WRONG internally. Exact same way, both speakers. Easy fix and they're amazing. Don't know if it was prior owner's fault, or if they slipped out like that from Scotland, but the latter wouldn't surprise me. And then BOTH TMR and prior owner thinking "yeah that's what they're supposed to sound like" when they were wired wrong?! I've also seen & heard plenty of Tannoys from new. Some of those models (definitely from Scotland factory back then) just left me shaking my head.

I've put up with the various Tannoy issues because I love the sound when it's "right". Total lack of communication / transparency and patchy support with Tannoy also goes back MORE than 20 years ago, when I got into this hobby. New management, same story - a few times now. So the "Made in Scotland" badge doesn't mean a quality assurance to me lol. I was actually hopeful back when Upscale acquired the line, but that clearly didn't pan out.

All parties involved in this squabble come off as extremely annoying and frustrating people. These threads are just meaningless forum churn for drama's sake. I agree with the chorus here - put up something substantiated or just shut up and let the drama play out in HiFi Plus or wherever it "wants" to live.

Fyne speakers look cool, I may check them out some day but I've got a lifetime of Tannoys & spare drivers here if I don't find something else that is extremely compelling. Not a huge fan of some of the aesthetic choices on the Classic / Vintage lines, and hate the rubber surrounds, but something like a Classic 12 could tempt me for my 2nd system. But I'm sure as heck not going to assume they have their act together just because "Made in Scotland".

Tannoy:

• Love the sound
• Love the company history
• Love the dual-concentric
• Hate the company's incarnations for at least 20 years

Originally Posted by mulveling

I am in fact a Tannoy fanboy, but certainly I've also noted many quality issues with them, going back more than 10 years ago. Like you also stated, I noticed the issues - but perhaps others (including "professional" reviewers) did not. Funny side-story: few years ago I bought Tannoy Glenair 10's from TMR (the big Colorado-based reseller that claims to test everything). They were listed cheap, with detailed notes from prior owner on how to position them for decent bass response, and warnings about proper amp matching. Well they sounded beyond awful. Broken. I knew what they were supposed to sound like (really good), from prior experience. Turns out they drivers were wired WRONG internally. Exact same way, both speakers. Easy fix and they're amazing. Don't know if it was prior owner's fault, or if they slipped out like that from Scotland, but the latter wouldn't surprise me. And then BOTH TMR and prior owner thinking "yeah that's what they're supposed to sound like" when they were wired wrong?! I've also seen & heard plenty of Tannoys from new. Some of those models (definitely from Scotland factory back then) just left me shaking my head.

I've put up with the various Tannoy issues because I love the sound when it's "right". Total lack of communication / transparency and patchy support with Tannoy also goes back MORE than 20 years ago, when I got into this hobby. New management, same story - a few times now. So the "Made in Scotland" badge doesn't mean a quality assurance to me lol. I was actually hopeful back when Upscale acquired the line, but that clearly didn't pan out.

All parties involved in this squabble come off as extremely annoying and frustrating people. These threads are just meaningless forum churn for drama's sake. I agree with the chorus here - put up something substantiated or just shut up and let the drama play out in HiFi Plus or wherever it "wants" to live.

Fyne speakers look cool, I may check them out some day but I've got a lifetime of Tannoys & spare drivers here if I don't find something else that is extremely compelling. Not a huge fan of some of the aesthetic choices on the Classic / Vintage lines, and hate the rubber surrounds, but something like a Classic 12 could tempt me for my 2nd system. But I'm sure as heck not going to assume they have their act together just because "Made in Scotland".

Tannoy:

• Love the sound
• Love the company history
• Love the dual-concentric
• Hate the company's incarnations for at least 20 years

Once again...

Transfer functions (and, all the loudspeaker is doing is performing a transfer function) are not influenced by the geographic location of where a product is assembled, but rather HOW effectively the Control Factors can mediate the functional response while being robust to the influence of Noise Factors (e.g. mfg. variance, materials variance, part-to-part variance, etc.). This is why good engineers do...DOEs.

A textbook of example of this is the only country that screwed up manufacturing Honda automobiles was Britain, with the disastrous Sterling automobile brand "venture". A case-history of what NOT to do.

QUALITY is NOT the result of WHERE products are made; it's the result of HOW they are made.

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Once again...

Transfer functions (and, all the loudspeaker is doing is performing a transfer function) are not influenced by the geographic location of where a product is assembled, but rather HOW effectively the Control Factors can mediate the functional response while being robust to the influence of Noise Factors (e.g. mfg. variance, materials variance, part-to-part variance, etc.). This is why good engineers do...DOEs.

A textbook of example of this is the only country that screwed up manufacturing Honda automobiles was Britain, with the disastrous Sterling automobile brand "venture". A case-history of what NOT to do.

QUALITY is NOT the result of WHERE products are made; it's the result of HOW they are made.

Stephen. In general I agree with your statement that where geographically a product is manufactured/assembled is less of a factor in quality than the capability of the processes.

One factor that should not be overlooked is the difference in statistically acceptable results and customer perceived quality. Take for example when the Nummi plant was producing both the Corolla and GM Prism. Same suppliers, same manufacturing processes yet significantly different customer quality results.

Lexus customer quality has always been rated top notch. Was it all process related or was it due to the high number of quality audits/auditors I encountered during the assembly process?

I almost forgot about the Sterling. That was the temporary company vehicle I drove for a couple of months in Belgium until my E Class was delivered.

Originally Posted by still-one

Stephen. In general I agree with your statement that where geographically a product is manufactured/assembled is less of a factor in quality than the capability of the processes.

One factor that should not be overlooked is the difference in statistically acceptable results and customer perceived quality. Take for example when the Nummi plant was producing both the Corolla and GM Prism. Same suppliers, same manufacturing processes yet significantly different customer quality results.

Lexus customer quality has always been rated top notch. Was it all process related or was it due to the high number of quality audits/auditors I encountered during the assembly process?

I almost forgot about the Sterling. That was the temporary company vehicle I drove for a couple of months in Belgium until my E Class was delivered.

Hi Jim, yes, you raise some valid and pertinent points for this discussion, so thank you for sharing your insights and experiences. My comments were specifically addressing the "perception" that products made in "Asia" are intrinsically inferior to products manufactured in the UK, simply because those products were made in....Asia.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

QUALITY is NOT the result of WHERE products are made; it's the result of HOW they are made.

Where it is made also dictates how much the person working on them is paid. The main reason to send MFG to China is Money. So if you get paid $10 per hour, would you do the same job and have the same attitude vs the guy making $50 to do the same work?

Where something is made certainly has a lot to do with quality, just not every product.

Originally Posted by dznutz

You missed the most important factor, in one Country that $10 could actually be far above average and give that individual alot of buying power, while in that other Country that $50 is below average.

Another angle here is that product may sell in the thousands at $500 retail, keeping that employee employed for a long time, while that same product will only sell a few at $2500.

So again, not a simple comparison.

And some countries use Slave Labor so agreed, it is not simple.

I see @MichaelsMinute continues his habit of name calling and drama while adding little value to the forum.