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Thread: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
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February 27, 2024, 09:27 AM #51-----------------
Brian
Main System - Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables
Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables
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February 27, 2024, 09:34 AM #52
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February 27, 2024, 10:12 AM #53
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
I won’t argue that money is a major factor in determining where a product could be manufactured. If you are using hourly wages as the determining factor you are significantly oversimplifying the sourcing process. A couple of examples. If you want access to the Chinese market you are probably going to have to partner up with local supplier (a JV) and produce some of your product there. With that JV you are going to have to share your state of the art manufacturing processes.
Unless you are going to manufacture a commodity you have really need a relatively high labor content product to offset shipping costs. Products that weigh a lot or do not package well are not are not very viable for import. Two examples are automotive batteries which are too heavy and products where you have to import materials from Europe or the US before converting then reexporting them to the country where they will sold.
I am very conversant in this topic.Jim
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February 27, 2024, 10:20 AM #54
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
I am not saying Tannoy uses Slave Labor, but it is a widespread issue in China. How can the quality of work from a slave be as good as a person getting paid?
Freespoke.com – Your new search engine.-----------------
Brian
Main System - Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables
Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables
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February 27, 2024, 10:29 AM #55
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
Perhaps @MichaelsMinute just posts some of his rhetoric for attention
MAIN SYSTEM - SST Ambrosia 2000 Second Edition Preamp, SST Son of Ampzilla II Amp, PS Audio Directstream DAC w/Bridge II, PS Audio Directstream Memory Player, PS Audio P3 Power Plant, Focal Sopra No. 1 Speakers, ELAC 3070 Sub, Roon Nucleus w/8TB SSD storage
HOME OFFICE SYSTEM - HiFi Rose RS250, KEF LS50W Nocturne Speakers
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February 27, 2024, 10:33 AM #56
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
MAIN SYSTEM - SST Ambrosia 2000 Second Edition Preamp, SST Son of Ampzilla II Amp, PS Audio Directstream DAC w/Bridge II, PS Audio Directstream Memory Player, PS Audio P3 Power Plant, Focal Sopra No. 1 Speakers, ELAC 3070 Sub, Roon Nucleus w/8TB SSD storage
HOME OFFICE SYSTEM - HiFi Rose RS250, KEF LS50W Nocturne Speakers
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February 27, 2024, 10:40 AM #57
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
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Brian
Main System - Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables
Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables
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February 27, 2024, 11:38 AM #58
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
Don't forget, we have a US avg of $7.25 a hr. And the migrants that are working in the US, they are actually called guest workers who temporarily live in the US through the federal H-2A program to work on farms, on an avg get $13+ a hr, or some get paid by the piece. Regarding work camps, from the National Center For Farm Worker Health, A study conducted in 2008 in North Carolina found that about 89% of the agricultural worker labor camps had more than one condition that violated the Migrant Housing Act (MHA) of North Carolina. [19] According to the same study, 78% of workers reported living in crowded conditions regardless whether the provided space complies with housing standards. Another study conducted in 2007 in the Coachella Valley of California concluded that 2% of those surveyed reported having living situations not meant for human habitation (such as the outdoors, vehicles, or inhabited converted garages). Some of these might as well be slave camps right here in the US. But hey we consume the food these migrants harvest, no big issue with that. But this has zip to do with audio.
Threads like this always go out the rails. Almost like it was intentional.2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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February 27, 2024, 12:56 PM #59
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Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
Please refer to Global findings | Walk Free for facts around Slave Labor. I would NOT even think to connect Tannoy with the morally criminal act of using slave labor to build and manufacture their loudspeakers & products. I am going to assume no one who is born and raised in a first world nation (most of us here) can actually comprehend the situations on which people are forced into slave labor. So bringing this up is something that is irrelevant to the topic at hand and I'm puzzled by how some of us are raising these things instead of focusing on Tannoy being disingenuous with their practices, facts, products, etc.
Getting back on top, calling Tannoy out is all fair in the court of public opinion. It's well within Michael's rights to call out on a public forum such as this. It may or may not be fact-based (which seems to be the back and forth conversation happening in this thread).
Tannoy's ownership changed to Music Tribe, which is a German company founded and chaired by Uli Behringer of the Behringer audio company. Where they choose to conduct manufacturing is very much within their right as a business and if they transition from Scotland to China, that's just the nature of business economics. This isn't dissimilar to how Sony moved their manufacturing of TVs and Playstations from Japan to China.
At some point, it will be economically more feasible to shift manufacturing to other countries like Vietnam and Thailand (Sony just shifted 90% of their camera & lens manufacturing to Thailand last year).
This actually says more about the economics of Tannoy than anything else. They seem to be selling more product globally where they need to gain economies of scale to generate a sustainable margin of profit. Tannoy has more than just the high-end products that we're discussing here, since they also serve the pro audio markets as well.
But let's leave the topic of slave labor, which I would argue none of us have any understanding about, out of this thread.
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February 29, 2024, 05:18 PM #60
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
Tannoy speakers have been built by Diora - which is the biggest cabinet supplier in EU - for at least the last 15 years (maybe even more). They are build on the same floor as speakers from Gryphon, Marten Design, Elac, Dynaudio, Focal, Triangle, Piega, Burmester, Quadral, Canton, Fyne Audio and many more.
Diora is anything but a "garage" - it is a very modern factory with 150+ ppl employed, built in 2014 (the company itself has been making cabinets since 1977).
About the Company – Diora
I just happened to visit Diora today with one of the european hi-end speaker manufacturers (with products ranging from 10.000 EUR to 500.000 EUR), who is looking for a new cabinets supplier and have witnessed Tannoy cabinets beeing made there.
Here are some pictures I took today, mindfull of this discussion:
BTW - it is funny to see Tannoy and Fyne cabinets beeing made on the same floor, just a few feet away.Adam
Speakers: Magico M3
Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer
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February 29, 2024, 07:32 PM #61
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February 29, 2024, 09:17 PM #62
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Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
where's our investigative reporter?
Burmester 911mk3 amplifier
Burmester 077 pre-amp
Burmester 217 turntable system
Burmester 111 streamer
Burmester 948 conditioner
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March 1, 2024, 08:50 AM #63
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.
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March 1, 2024, 08:53 AM #64
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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March 1, 2024, 09:06 AM #65
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Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
strange, those have drivers in them, do you get 20% off for the ones that are covered with piss?
Burmester 911mk3 amplifier
Burmester 077 pre-amp
Burmester 217 turntable system
Burmester 111 streamer
Burmester 948 conditioner
Master Artist Signature Full Range Towers
Master Artist Signature Rack
Espirit Eureka cables
Silent Angel NX Network Switch
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March 1, 2024, 09:55 AM #66
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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March 1, 2024, 09:56 AM #67
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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March 1, 2024, 09:58 AM #68
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Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
lol - just 15% off full list price for B- stock leftovers of a line the seller has dropped. What a joke.
Elberoth - you are a true hero for shedding some real light on this mess. Thank you. And you didn't even endlessly self-promote your youtube channel for it? lol. Lots of jokers abound.
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March 1, 2024, 10:06 AM #69
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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March 1, 2024, 10:23 AM #70
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Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
such a soap opera, I know at axpona last year tannoy was his "bread and butter" product, now its crap
Burmester 911mk3 amplifier
Burmester 077 pre-amp
Burmester 217 turntable system
Burmester 111 streamer
Burmester 948 conditioner
Master Artist Signature Full Range Towers
Master Artist Signature Rack
Espirit Eureka cables
Silent Angel NX Network Switch
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March 1, 2024, 03:00 PM #71
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Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
This whole story relates to conflict and splintering withing Upscale importing. Tannoy has just been taken along for the ride. Fyne does benefit in the end.
Tannoy does need to work on it's imaging and quality control. However, the US market is small potatoes for them compared to Europe and Asia, and my understanding is they are doing just fine. Tannoy and Rhythm will have a chance to develop and refine their marketing, and Fyne will do well with Upscale.
I was looking at new office speakers, and frankly all of this did make me take a pass on Tannoy for now. But I am interested in purchasing in the future.
Tannoy has had an issue with counterfeiting in the Asian market. Wonder if any of the photos could have originated from those sites, rather than actual factories as provided by Elberoth? In the meantime, the world will chug along, with much more significant problems than this one. And Tannoy is going to do just fine.
FYI, I called Upscale recently and spoke to them about some Eaton's. I spoke with a very sincere and helpful person. I recalled talking to him several years ago about Kensingtons. He still lovingly talks about Tannoy. It looks like they still have some old stock to sell, but I think there is still love for Tannoy in the trenches there.Buckeye Farmboy translocated to Boulder. Master and slave to my 10 year old twins
System: Grimm MU1, Mola Mola Tambaqui, Accuphase C3900 pre, TARA Labs 0.8 XLR, Gryphon Essence Stereo Amp, Tara LAbs 0.8 Speaker Cables, Rockport Atria ii's
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March 1, 2024, 03:24 PM #72
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
Which Tannoy model has been counterfeited in Asia?
The smallest Tannoy's model from the Heritage series, the table-top Autograph Mini, has always been in fact manufactured in China (this model has never been made in Diora - it was too expensive for Tannoy).
Tannoy-Autograph-Mini-OW-im-Test-Breit.jpgAdam
Speakers: Magico M3
Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer
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March 1, 2024, 04:14 PM #73
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March 1, 2024, 04:43 PM #74
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Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
Good point Adam. Maybe I should have used the term clone.
Tannoy clones?Buckeye Farmboy translocated to Boulder. Master and slave to my 10 year old twins
System: Grimm MU1, Mola Mola Tambaqui, Accuphase C3900 pre, TARA Labs 0.8 XLR, Gryphon Essence Stereo Amp, Tara LAbs 0.8 Speaker Cables, Rockport Atria ii's
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March 1, 2024, 04:43 PM #75
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Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
Good point Adam. Maybe I should have used the term clone.
Tannoy clones?Buckeye Farmboy translocated to Boulder. Master and slave to my 10 year old twins
System: Grimm MU1, Mola Mola Tambaqui, Accuphase C3900 pre, TARA Labs 0.8 XLR, Gryphon Essence Stereo Amp, Tara LAbs 0.8 Speaker Cables, Rockport Atria ii's
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March 1, 2024, 09:17 PM #76
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Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
Buckeye Farmboy translocated to Boulder. Master and slave to my 10 year old twins
System: Grimm MU1, Mola Mola Tambaqui, Accuphase C3900 pre, TARA Labs 0.8 XLR, Gryphon Essence Stereo Amp, Tara LAbs 0.8 Speaker Cables, Rockport Atria ii's
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March 2, 2024, 04:00 AM #77
Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi
I like the fact, the the great people of China offer broad customization options, LoL.
Customization:
Customized logo: Min. order 2000
Customized packaging Min. order: 2000
Graphic customization Min. order: 2000Adam
Speakers: Magico M3
Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
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Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
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