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  1. #51
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Projectman View Post
    I see @MichaelsMinute continues his habit of name calling and drama while adding little value to the forum.
    And your last Thread was of value?
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  2. #52

    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    And some countries use Slave Labor so agreed, it is not simple.
    Im sure theres far worse things happening in some countries than that. Those concerned should band together, move there and implement change.

  3. #53
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    Where it is made also dictates how much the person working on them is paid. The main reason to send MFG to China is Money. So if you get paid $10 per hour, would you do the same job and have the same attitude vs the guy making $50 to do the same work?

    Where something is made certainly has a lot to do with quality, just not every product.
    I won’t argue that money is a major factor in determining where a product could be manufactured. If you are using hourly wages as the determining factor you are significantly oversimplifying the sourcing process. A couple of examples. If you want access to the Chinese market you are probably going to have to partner up with local supplier (a JV) and produce some of your product there. With that JV you are going to have to share your state of the art manufacturing processes.

    Unless you are going to manufacture a commodity you have really need a relatively high labor content product to offset shipping costs. Products that weigh a lot or do not package well are not are not very viable for import. Two examples are automotive batteries which are too heavy and products where you have to import materials from Europe or the US before converting then reexporting them to the country where they will sold.

    I am very conversant in this topic.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    I won’t argue that money is a major factor in determining where a product could be manufactured. If you are using hourly wages as the determining factor you are significantly oversimplifying the sourcing process. A couple of examples. If you want access to the Chinese market you are probably going to have to partner up with local supplier (a JV) and produce some of your product there. With that JV you are going to have to share your state of the art manufacturing processes.

    Unless you are going to manufacture a commodity you have really need a relatively high labor content product to offset shipping costs. Products that weigh a lot or do not package well are not are not very viable for import. Two examples are automotive batteries which are too heavy and products where you have to import materials from Europe or the US before converting then reexporting them to the country where they will sold.

    I am very conversant in this topic.
    I am not saying Tannoy uses Slave Labor, but it is a widespread issue in China. How can the quality of work from a slave be as good as a person getting paid?

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  5. #55
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Perhaps @MichaelsMinute just posts some of his rhetoric for attention
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  6. #56
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    And your last Thread was of value?
    Perhaps it didn’t add value, but isn’t that the case with many opinions?
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  7. #57
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Projectman View Post
    Perhaps it didn’t add value, but isn’t that the case with many opinions?
    And that is your opinion.
    Opinions are the basis for conversation. If all we spoke were facts, there would not be much conversation.
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  8. #58
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    I am not saying Tannoy uses Slave Labor, but it is a widespread issue in China. How can the quality of work from a slave be as good as a person getting paid?

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    Don't forget, we have a US avg of $7.25 a hr. And the migrants that are working in the US, they are actually called guest workers who temporarily live in the US through the federal H-2A program to work on farms, on an avg get $13+ a hr, or some get paid by the piece. Regarding work camps, from the National Center For Farm Worker Health, A study conducted in 2008 in North Carolina found that about 89% of the agricultural worker labor camps had more than one condition that violated the Migrant Housing Act (MHA) of North Carolina. [19] According to the same study, 78% of workers reported living in crowded conditions regardless whether the provided space complies with housing standards. Another study conducted in 2007 in the Coachella Valley of California concluded that 2% of those surveyed reported having living situations not meant for human habitation (such as the outdoors, vehicles, or inhabited converted garages). Some of these might as well be slave camps right here in the US. But hey we consume the food these migrants harvest, no big issue with that. But this has zip to do with audio.


    Threads like this always go out the rails. Almost like it was intentional.
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  9. #59

    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Please refer to Global findings | Walk Free for facts around Slave Labor. I would NOT even think to connect Tannoy with the morally criminal act of using slave labor to build and manufacture their loudspeakers & products. I am going to assume no one who is born and raised in a first world nation (most of us here) can actually comprehend the situations on which people are forced into slave labor. So bringing this up is something that is irrelevant to the topic at hand and I'm puzzled by how some of us are raising these things instead of focusing on Tannoy being disingenuous with their practices, facts, products, etc.

    Getting back on top, calling Tannoy out is all fair in the court of public opinion. It's well within Michael's rights to call out on a public forum such as this. It may or may not be fact-based (which seems to be the back and forth conversation happening in this thread).

    Tannoy's ownership changed to Music Tribe, which is a German company founded and chaired by Uli Behringer of the Behringer audio company. Where they choose to conduct manufacturing is very much within their right as a business and if they transition from Scotland to China, that's just the nature of business economics. This isn't dissimilar to how Sony moved their manufacturing of TVs and Playstations from Japan to China.

    At some point, it will be economically more feasible to shift manufacturing to other countries like Vietnam and Thailand (Sony just shifted 90% of their camera & lens manufacturing to Thailand last year).

    This actually says more about the economics of Tannoy than anything else. They seem to be selling more product globally where they need to gain economies of scale to generate a sustainable margin of profit. Tannoy has more than just the high-end products that we're discussing here, since they also serve the pro audio markets as well.

    But let's leave the topic of slave labor, which I would argue none of us have any understanding about, out of this thread.

  10. #60
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    When I saw the pics of their cabinets being built on the floor of some garage in another country I was pretty surprised. If a Manufacturer of a product refuses to say where that product is built, they should not be trusted. Even IF the Chinese built product sounds the same as a UK built product. If you cannot be up front and honest about your product, it is no surprise that product loses peoples interest and fails.
    Tannoy speakers have been built by Diora - which is the biggest cabinet supplier in EU - for at least the last 15 years (maybe even more). They are build on the same floor as speakers from Gryphon, Marten Design, Elac, Dynaudio, Focal, Triangle, Piega, Burmester, Quadral, Canton, Fyne Audio and many more.

    Diora is anything but a "garage" - it is a very modern factory with 150+ ppl employed, built in 2014 (the company itself has been making cabinets since 1977).

    About the Company – Diora

    I just happened to visit Diora today with one of the european hi-end speaker manufacturers (with products ranging from 10.000 EUR to 500.000 EUR), who is looking for a new cabinets supplier and have witnessed Tannoy cabinets beeing made there.

    Here are some pictures I took today, mindfull of this discussion:











    BTW - it is funny to see Tannoy and Fyne cabinets beeing made on the same floor, just a few feet away.
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  11. #61
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
    Tannoy speakers have been built by Diora - which is the biggest cabinet supplier in EU - for at least the last 15 years (maybe even more). They are build on the same floor as speakers from Gryphon, Elac, Dynaudio, Focal, Triangle, Piega, Burmester, Quadral, Canton, Fyne Audio and many more.

    Diora is anything but a "garage" - it is a very modern factory with 150+ ppl employed, built in 2014 (the company itself has been making cabinets since 1977).

    About the Company – Diora

    I just happened to visit Diora today with one of the european hi-end speaker manufacturers (with products ranging from 10.000 EUR to 500.000 EUR), who is looking for a new cabinets supplier and have witnessed Tannoy cabinets beeing made there.

    Here are some pictures I took today, mindfull of this discussion:











    BTW - it is funny to see Tannoy and Fyne cabinets beeing made on the same floor, just a few feets away.
    Now, that is what I call...data. Impressive mfg facility.

    Thanks, Adam. Cheers.
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  12. #62
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    where's our investigative reporter?
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  13. #63

    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
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  14. #64
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    LMAO. The guy who perpetrated the lies for years is now crying foul. Amazing.


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  15. #65
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    strange, those have drivers in them, do you get 20% off for the ones that are covered with piss?
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  16. #66
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Porsche View Post
    strange, those have drivers in them, do you get 20% off for the ones that are covered with piss?

    Maybe the guy that pissed on the speakers was marking his territory
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  17. #67
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    Maybe the guy that pissed on the speakers was marking his territory
    Or it’s what he thought of the company and its distributor.


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  18. #68

    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    lol - just 15% off full list price for B- stock leftovers of a line the seller has dropped. What a joke.

    Elberoth - you are a true hero for shedding some real light on this mess. Thank you. And you didn't even endlessly self-promote your youtube channel for it? lol. Lots of jokers abound.

  19. #69
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi





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  20. #70
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    such a soap opera, I know at axpona last year tannoy was his "bread and butter" product, now its crap
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  21. #71
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    This whole story relates to conflict and splintering withing Upscale importing. Tannoy has just been taken along for the ride. Fyne does benefit in the end.
    Tannoy does need to work on it's imaging and quality control. However, the US market is small potatoes for them compared to Europe and Asia, and my understanding is they are doing just fine. Tannoy and Rhythm will have a chance to develop and refine their marketing, and Fyne will do well with Upscale.
    I was looking at new office speakers, and frankly all of this did make me take a pass on Tannoy for now. But I am interested in purchasing in the future.
    Tannoy has had an issue with counterfeiting in the Asian market. Wonder if any of the photos could have originated from those sites, rather than actual factories as provided by Elberoth? In the meantime, the world will chug along, with much more significant problems than this one. And Tannoy is going to do just fine.
    FYI, I called Upscale recently and spoke to them about some Eaton's. I spoke with a very sincere and helpful person. I recalled talking to him several years ago about Kensingtons. He still lovingly talks about Tannoy. It looks like they still have some old stock to sell, but I think there is still love for Tannoy in the trenches there.
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  22. #72
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Which Tannoy model has been counterfeited in Asia?

    The smallest Tannoy's model from the Heritage series, the table-top Autograph Mini, has always been in fact manufactured in China (this model has never been made in Diora - it was too expensive for Tannoy).

    Tannoy-Autograph-Mini-OW-im-Test-Breit.jpg
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  23. #73
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
    Which Tannoy model has been counterfeited in Asia?

    The smallest Tannoy's model from the Heritage series, the table-top Autograph Mini, has always been in fact manufactured in China (this model has never been made in Diora - it was too expensive for Tannoy).

    Tannoy-Autograph-Mini-OW-im-Test-Breit.jpg
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  24. #74
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
    Which Tannoy model has been counterfeited in Asia?

    The smallest Tannoy's model from the Heritage series, the table-top Autograph Mini, has always been in fact manufactured in China (this model has never been made in Diora - it was too expensive for Tannoy).

    Tannoy-Autograph-Mini-OW-im-Test-Breit.jpg
    Good point Adam. Maybe I should have used the term clone.

    Tannoy clones?
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  25. #75
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
    Which Tannoy model has been counterfeited in Asia?

    The smallest Tannoy's model from the Heritage series, the table-top Autograph Mini, has always been in fact manufactured in China (this model has never been made in Diora - it was too expensive for Tannoy).

    Tannoy-Autograph-Mini-OW-im-Test-Breit.jpg
    Good point Adam. Maybe I should have used the term clone.

    Tannoy clones?
    Buckeye Farmboy translocated to Boulder. Master and slave to my 10 year old twins
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  26. #76
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  27. #77
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    Re: Battle over at What Hi-Fi

    I like the fact, the the great people of China offer broad customization options, LoL.

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