Results 51 to 62 of 62
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November 9, 2014, 01:29 PM #51
Re: "Awesome" dealer experience....not.
Myles...you are of course right but I used Andy Singer as an extreme illustrative example of why cash is king. Yes he had signed a lease in union square on the cheap from the prior recession in 2001 and when that lease came off, he faced a very step hike in rents, which required him to close up shop and reopen a year and a half later in a studio by appointment show room in NYC where the rent is much cheaper. My generic point is most dealers just don't have the financial leeway to tie up cash in inventory beyond the demo gear that they hold because times are tough. Those who do are few and far between.
Cyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system
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November 9, 2014, 01:55 PM #52
Re: "Awesome" dealer experience....not.
CD...many high-end audio companies are very small businesses themselves (forget the dealers they try to sell through). As you say, the high-end audio arena represents a very niche business (1% of 1% of 1% as you put it), so it's not like these companies are rolling in the dough, and they don't have the luxury of maintain a lot of inventory on hand, so they have to manufacture-to-order. You guys are comparing these small companies to F500 manufacturers and retailers with tens of billions of dollars in revenues and billions of dollars of operating cash flow, that have the manufacturing capability to employ true JIT practices and to invest in inventory strategically. Let's take the Fine Sounds Group today which is now one of the largest high-end audio companies out there. Their proforma revenues in 2012 when they announced the McIntosh acquisition for the group (SF, Wadia, Audio Research, Sumiko and McIntosh) was $70 million in revenues. And this is one of the biggest high-end audio companies. Rockport Tech is Andy Payor and another fellow who does the cross-overs and speaker assemblies. The cabinets are done by a supplier down the road. The drivers are produced for him to spec by Scandinavian driver suppliers. I have been to Rockport. At any point in time, he may have 20-30 or so speakers at various stages of production with maybe 5 or so in finished form ready to be shipped, and this is to supply dealers globally. So if he gets an order from a dealer for a speaker that order goes into the production queue because the finished speakers he has on hand are already spoken for. He will maintain very little excess inventory. Why because any inventory that is not already sold represents cash tied up in inventory that he has not turned into a sale. And guess what most high-end audio companies are 2-10 person shops with a few million $ in sales (the successful ones). So that's why in most cases, it takes a few weeks to a few months sometimes to fill orders. The biggest high end audio marquees (i.e., the various brand at Fine Sounds, Wilson, Magico, Focal, etc...) are in that $20-$70 million range in revs at most. These are tiny companies in comparison to F500. And the bulk of high end companies are miniscule relative these big names in the high end. A company like CJ prolly has $5-7 million in revenues. I think ARC when they were bought by the Fine Sounds Group was in the $10 million range.
I don't think folks here understand how niche the high-end audio business is.Cyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system
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November 9, 2014, 02:11 PM #53
Re: "Awesome" dealer experience....not.
Cyril
He does carry inventory on some items (even a few relatively expensive ones). He doesn't keep XLF's, Aida's, AR 750's etc in his warehouse. Then again you would be surprised at how often people will take the demo gear as on occasion I have. It is like new, fully warranted and often broken in.Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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November 9, 2014, 02:15 PM #54
Re: "Awesome" dealer experience....not.
I give up :-) You guys keep on pointing out the exceptions to the rule who happen to be the successful dealers who can afford to carry some inventory. I guess you all think dealers are minting money and taking the cashola to the bank. I just read the tea leaves which is every other day, weak, month you hear of another dealer closing. And my pint is most cannot afford to carry inventory across the board. But I will stop now
Cyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system
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November 9, 2014, 02:24 PM #55
Re: "Awesome" dealer experience....not.
when i said dealers were reluctant to stock high value items I meant having product on display. it seems many don't even have part of the product range on display just specific models they think they can sell. its a self fulfilling prophecy you take out what you put in, if sales suck for lack of product to demo, you're probably not well funded enough to support a successful model.
recently a dealer offered to schlep $50k speakers over to my place for an audition in a residential setting, then why have a store? the more i think about it, the home-based 'consultant' is probably the future. the consultant is an agent for the mfr taking a fee for the 'sale' and having product drop shipped directly to the consumer/buyer.
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November 9, 2014, 02:32 PM #56
Re: "Awesome" dealer experience....not.
Cyril
I understand your point very clearly. The hobby we are grew up with is dying as we knew it. Just because some of us spend time on sites such as this we think that a lot of people care about audio which is far, far from reality. As was noted we are less than the 1% of the 1%..... Rebranding the hobby to capture the luxury goods buyer will only buy some manufacturers a bit of time at most. When the Asian market is satiated we will see a further culling of the herd.
As far as inventory goes I am well aware of the financial implications. I was responsible for a billion dollar piece of business with operations all over the world.Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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November 9, 2014, 02:43 PM #57
"Awesome" dealer experience....not.
Businesses moving virtual is not limited to just audio. Look across the board and you will see many businesses moving virtually or home based. Rent, CAM, electricity for an office, cleaning, insurance, etc, etc, has grown exponentially.
Home/hobby based dealers are the future. The markups are just not there to support all the overhead mentioned above. Manufacturers like Wilson can try to limit this impact by ignoring the home based dealer, but then there are 500 other competing products ready to step in and happily work with the home based dealer.
Manufacturers COULD offer a much higher discount to store front dealers, so the home based dealer is limited to a maximum percentage discount.
I'm sure we can come up with other ideas - but what was met with hostility 5 years ago, is becoming, as I predicted, the norm.
And we all know what the next step in this evolution MIGHT be....
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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November 9, 2014, 03:37 PM #58Cyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system
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November 9, 2014, 03:42 PM #59
Re: "Awesome" dealer experience....not.
Cyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system
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November 9, 2014, 03:43 PM #60
Re: "Awesome" dealer experience....not.
Cyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system
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November 9, 2014, 06:27 PM #61
Re: "Awesome" dealer experience....not.
Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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November 9, 2014, 07:30 PM #62
Re: "Awesome" dealer experience....not.
Cyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system
AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
was that USPS? they have the best rates from the mainland to the islands, by far.
Shipping Overseas 498 pounds w/3...