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  1. #1
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    Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Interesting timing of this article as many opinions were shared in the Magico section of AS regarding the price of the M9s. Is very expensive better? Not necessarily…

    SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - Rich Guys and Reviewers Running Amok in Hi-Fi
    _______________

    Mike

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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Great article. This is informative and will be helpful in my next system purchase or upgrade. Thanks.
    Sincerely,

    Calvin

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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    It kinda fits with this post


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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Doug must be new to hi end audio ...




    Regards
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his tweeters ..!!

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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    yep, I wish I could have afforded the system I have now 40 years ago, when my hearing was superb. regardless, I've enjoyed the journey and in some ways that too is all part of the fun.
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  6. #6

    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Although the article does not mention it, as I was reading the article the thought of a pair of cables costing thousands of dollars came to mind.
    Fortunately, today there are a few rational audiophiles out there doing objective reviews that are exposing (to those who care to see) that the king is naked as has been naked for quite sometime.

  7. #7
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Excellent article and he was right on the mark in my view.

    Reminds me of the LA show a couple months ago. The 1.5-2 Mil system sounded good, sure, but in every one of our groups opinions, not even close to the best sounding room at the show.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Kinda what I was alluding to........
    Mark


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  9. #9
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Doug must be new to hi end audio ...
    He is really new to hi end audio ....

    "I’ve run the SoundStage! Network for over 25 years, so I know first-hand how—and how often—this happens."

    25 years is still considered a rookie, correct... and I assume you had your tongue firmly planted in your cheek with your post .
    Amplifiers: Hattor AMRG Trans, Tube Active Stage | NAD C298 | MBL 8006 B | McIntosh MP100
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  10. #10
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    I think cables are very important. Case and Point:

    We just moved into a new home (new to us). I had my Venom Shunyata cable hooked up to the Aurender and the wall.... Things sounded real good for streaming ....

    However we began having Wi-Fi problems and so the Tech desired to move our router - app 20' from the Aurender. He made a cable which he hooked into my Shunyata Venom and plugged it directly into the Router. The SQ instantly went south. It was so bad I emailed Mike asking him how much a longer cable would be ...

    The Tech came back out to do our alarm system and found another solution for the Wi-Fi ... All is good now, but the cable change on my Aruender made a noticeable change in the SQ. As to how much change would have happened going from Venom to Alpha I'm not sure ... maybe that is where the law of diminishing returns comes more into play ...


    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Although the article does not mention it, as I was reading the article the thought of a pair of cables costing thousands of dollars came to mind.
    Fortunately, today there are a few rational audiophiles out there doing objective reviews that are exposing (to those who care to see) that the king is naked as has been naked for quite sometime.
    Sincerely,

    Calvin

  11. #11
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    He is really new to hi end audio ....

    "I’ve run the SoundStage! Network for over 25 years, so I know first-hand how—and how often—this happens."

    25 years is still considered a rookie, correct... and I assume you had your tongue firmly planted in your cheek with your post .
    Hi end audio was always out there expensive , paying 4K for a pr of ML2 in 1978 when median family income was 15K is different how. I do remember another audiophile friend buying a Koetsu cart in 1979 for a few thousand dollars , the price struck me insane as it was the same as a good used car at the time ..


    Nothing has changed really , well not by much ......


    Regards
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his tweeters ..!!

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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Hi end audio was always out there expensive , paying 4K for a pr of ML2 in 1978 when median family income was 15K is different how. I do remember another audiophile friend buying a Koetsu cart in 1979 for a few thousand dollars , the price struck me insane as it was the same as a good used car at the time ..


    Nothing has changed really , well not by much ......


    Regards
    Agree, and I do remember insanely priced components back in the day also. I believe that these were much rarer back then and today they are much more prevalent then these ultra expensive components used to be. Then again maybe it is just that it gets promoted and talked about much more today then it used to .
    Amplifiers: Hattor AMRG Trans, Tube Active Stage | NAD C298 | MBL 8006 B | McIntosh MP100
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  13. #13
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Yep , no internet audiophiles back then to share the moaning and groaning with...!


    * An Audiophile is only as old as his tweeters ..!!

  14. #14
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    The article is just an editorial, one man's opinion, and subjective. For example, who says the $40k piece is worse than the $4k piece, Doug? On the other hand that doesn't mean there isn't a good point, food for thought.

    On one hand Doug says there should be less brands then says the brands should be more competitively priced. Economics was not a college course for me but I thought competition and competitive pricing went hand in hand. Let's face it as long as someone buys at a price there will be that price and someone else to try to raise the bar. As in Doug's example of costs rising in the 90's, what would have happened if those products sat on the shelf?

    One thing Doug said struck me. I used to say I don't believe in the placebo effect. Doug says it may work for those who believe it. I can accept that. It doesn't work for me, I can't imagine anyone wanting to spend more money for something if not able to justify it. Maybe it's having to buy more carefully for me. I have compared various components including cables and power products with having to return or not purchase due to the performance not being better or enough gain to justify the additional money. If I take something out of my system and can't be satisfied without it, the those items I had to purchase. Unless I was allowed to listen and I knew up front I'd never be able to afford it.

    Maybe it's due to why a person is buying the audio system. I have heard of those with money just wanting something perceived as good, or the best and just trusting the dealer or reviews or as Doug says the price tag. For me it's passion, I listen to my system for the enjoyment, that's why if something doesn't sound right to me it has to go or not be there in the first place. My system is modest to some here but I have spent beyond maybe what I should have on audio. It's my passion though, I don't drive, don't care about jewelry or other expensive items, my sacrifice went into my music listening. It's all about priority.

    I personally think Doug used some extremes, I'd have to hear a $1500 speaker that sounds better an one costing $15,000 and wonder if it was true, why. Was Doug questioning the integrity of some whilst claiming not to?

    I agree on the premise of the article, it's hard to get my head around some audio components costing as much as a luxury auto or modest house. Especially, cables, where maybe designed in a certain, special, way, still it's a strand of wire. I had that conversation with my dealer as I handed him my money, "these cost more than my washing machine" LOL In that case though the improvement was enough I didn't want them to leave my system.

    One thing that I don't have any tolerance for though, other "audiophiles" trying to apply their beliefs and principals to others. If I choose to spend $15k or $150k on something it's none of your business and I don't need you to save me. If you believe in placebo then that's your issue but don't go trying to apply that to everyone, it's not your job, right or business, unless I'm on the sofa in your office paying you the $15k. If you have a room full of thrift store gear from the 70's and you are thrilled with it, that's your business but if I want more then that's my business. You stay in your lane and I will stay in mine.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    good article but it is basicly bla bla bla turning in the cycle until he becomes himself and wants 50k speakers and expensive electronics.

    the reality is we somehow have a shit hobby as it is based on cash.

  16. #16
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    The article is just an editorial, one man's opinion, and subjective. For example, who says the $40k piece is worse than the $4k piece, Doug? On the other hand that doesn't mean there isn't a good point, food for thought.

    On one hand Doug says there should be less brands then says the brands should be more competitively priced. Economics was not a college course for me but I thought competition and competitive pricing went hand in hand. Let's face it as long as someone buys at a price there will be that price and someone else to try to raise the bar. As in Doug's example of costs rising in the 90's, what would have happened if those products sat on the shelf?

    One thing Doug said struck me. I used to say I don't believe in the placebo effect. Doug says it may work for those who believe it. I can accept that. It doesn't work for me, I can't imagine anyone wanting to spend more money for something if not able to justify it. Maybe it's having to buy more carefully for me. I have compared various components including cables and power products with having to return or not purchase due to the performance not being better or enough gain to justify the additional money. If I take something out of my system and can't be satisfied without it, the those items I had to purchase. Unless I was allowed to listen and I knew up front I'd never be able to afford it.

    Maybe it's due to why a person is buying the audio system. I have heard of those with money just wanting something perceived as good, or the best and just trusting the dealer or reviews or as Doug says the price tag. For me it's passion, I listen to my system for the enjoyment, that's why if something doesn't sound right to me it has to go or not be there in the first place. My system is modest to some here but I have spent beyond maybe what I should have on audio. It's my passion though, I don't drive, don't care about jewelry or other expensive items, my sacrifice went into my music listening. It's all about priority.

    I personally think Doug used some extremes, I'd have to hear a $1500 speaker that sounds better an one costing $15,000 and wonder if it was true, why. Was Doug questioning the integrity of some whilst claiming not to?

    I agree on the premise of the article, it's hard to get my head around some audio components costing as much as a luxury auto or modest house. Especially, cables, where maybe designed in a certain, special, way, still it's a strand of wire. I had that conversation with my dealer as I handed him my money, "these cost more than my washing machine" LOL In that case though the improvement was enough I didn't want them to leave my system.

    One thing that I don't have any tolerance for though, other "audiophiles" trying to apply their beliefs and principals to others. If I choose to spend $15k or $150k on something it's none of your business and I don't need you to save me. If you believe in placebo then that's your issue but don't go trying to apply that to everyone, it's not your job, right or business, unless I'm on the sofa in your office paying you the $15k. If you have a room full of thrift store gear from the 70's and you are thrilled with it, that's your business but if I want more then that's my business. You stay in your lane and I will stay in mine.
    all good advice but with regards to your last paragraph, when someone in any forum opens up with their 'beliefs' that run counter to scientific fact then tactful intervention is a good thing.
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  17. #17
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    One thing that I don't have any tolerance for though, other "audiophiles" trying to apply their beliefs and principals to others. If I choose to spend $15k or $150k on something it's none of your business and I don't need you to save me. If you believe in placebo then that's your issue but don't go trying to apply that to everyone, it's not your job, right or business, unless I'm on the sofa in your office paying you the $15k. If you have a room full of thrift store gear from the 70's and you are thrilled with it, that's your business but if I want more then that's my business. You stay in your lane and I will stay in mine.
    I kind of agree with your last point. If someone asks for opinions I am happy to give them mine, but I do not believe that I am right and others are wrong. I believe what is right for you is truly what matters.

    I recently dealt with a similar thing from a good friend in our audio club. He said that I should get rid of the Magnepan's, the Technics table, the Audeze headphones, and other items and buy the KEF Reference 3's that another friend in the club is selling. Speakers is what my system is lacking.

    My reply was that while I really like and appreciate the Ref 3's, I felt he was asking too much for them, but more importantly I am really sick of big boxes in my room. To me they overpower the room and become the complete focal point. And good luck moving them around. I felt I had to explain why I am tired of large overwhelming speakers and that I prefer speakers that are smaller and more manageable in my room. The speakers I have been most satisfied with, even back in the day, were stand mounted speakers. I did not feel I required large expensive boxes to really get the most out of my system. That I felt like a well designed and built small speaker can make me very satisfied. I felt like I had to justify purchasing the KEF LS50 Meta's...

    So I very much appreciate the point you are making.
    Amplifiers: Hattor AMRG Trans, Tube Active Stage | NAD C298 | MBL 8006 B | McIntosh MP100
    Vinyl: Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird | Technics SL-1500C | AT VM740ML
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  18. #18
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    I would do Maggies with Subs over any Kef Speaker i have ever Heard since 1978, its not even close IMO ..!


    Regards
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his tweeters ..!!

  19. #19
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    I would do Maggies with Subs over any Kef Speaker i have ever Heard since 1978, its not even close IMO ..!
    We all have our preferences. I have been a KEF fan since about 1980 ... I enjoy the KEF sound, and usually like most British speakers that I have heard.

    In the same regards I have never liked horn speakers. That is not to say that there are not fantastic horn speakers, there certainly are. They are just not my cup of tea. I do not like ribbon tweeters either. I never like the Infinity speakers back in the day for example. But I do like panel speakers, go figure .

    With that said I have really been enjoying the Meta speakers .
    Amplifiers: Hattor AMRG Trans, Tube Active Stage | NAD C298 | MBL 8006 B | McIntosh MP100
    Vinyl: Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird | Technics SL-1500C | AT VM740ML
    Digital: T+A DAC 8 DSD | Falcon NW PC | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 | Roon & HQPlayer
    Headphones: Woo Audio WA22 (2nd Gen) | A&K SE-200 | Abyss Diana Phi | Focal Clear MG
    Speakers: KEF LS50 Meta w/S2 | Rythmik L12 (x2)
    Other: Oppo BDP-105 | Magnum Dynalab FT-101A, ST-2

  20. #20
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    One year at AXPONA one of the main KEF sales guys was running the room and one of their demonstrations was a side by side comparison of the LS50's and a set of Blades. What he was pointing out for observation was how the driver in the LS50 was timbre matched with the same size driver of the Blade. So according to what KEF was showing you have a scaled down sound of a Blade, same timbre just not as many drivers. Your Meta may even be better until the technology is expanded into other models.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    I kind of agree with your last point. If someone asks for opinions I am happy to give them mine, but I do not believe that I am right and others are wrong. I believe what is right for you is truly what matters.

    I recently dealt with a similar thing from a good friend in our audio club. He said that I should get rid of the Magnepan's, the Technics table, the Audeze headphones, and other items and buy the KEF Reference 3's that another friend in the club is selling. Speakers is what my system is lacking.

    My reply was that while I really like and appreciate the Ref 3's, I felt he was asking too much for them, but more importantly I am really sick of big boxes in my room. To me they overpower the room and become the complete focal point. And good luck moving them around. I felt I had to explain why I am tired of large overwhelming speakers and that I prefer speakers that are smaller and more manageable in my room. The speakers I have been most satisfied with, even back in the day, were stand mounted speakers. I did not feel I required large expensive boxes to really get the most out of my system. That I felt like a well designed and built small speaker can make me very satisfied. I felt like I had to justify purchasing the KEF LS50 Meta's...

    So I very much appreciate the point you are making.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB,
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  21. #21
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    Re: Audio and the wealthy - Soundstage Article

    You sure know how to make a guy feel good ... I have actually heard that before, that the LS50's, originally introduced as one of their 50th anniversary models was designed to be a scaled down version of their top products .

    The Meta also uses their latest 12th generation Uni-Q! The Blades and References will be scheduled to be updated with the newest Uni-Q and the Meta tech. KEF does indeed list the Meta's as part of the Flagships on their website, along with the Blades and Muon!
    Amplifiers: Hattor AMRG Trans, Tube Active Stage | NAD C298 | MBL 8006 B | McIntosh MP100
    Vinyl: Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird | Technics SL-1500C | AT VM740ML
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    Headphones: Woo Audio WA22 (2nd Gen) | A&K SE-200 | Abyss Diana Phi | Focal Clear MG
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    Other: Oppo BDP-105 | Magnum Dynalab FT-101A, ST-2

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