Audio Myths?

I hear 'ya Spock, 'live long and prosper' ......... :bonkers:

Thanks for wishing me a long life!

I don't know if it will take that long...
It is true that real science has nothing to win dealing with the world of audiophilia. No progress for the world will come if one day the many audio phenomena that so many claim to witness are proven with measurements.
But perhaps through some indirect way we can get there. In medicine, we have long mastered the technique of anesthesia that allows to perform surgeries. And yet it is not known exactly how anesthesia works. In the same way, we have controlled electricity for a long time and yet, do we already know how electricity works? Perhaps not, judging by recent attempts at explanation.

The Big Misconception About Electricity - YouTube

Science of perception: Reality vs illusion. Our brains can be tricked into “perceiving” illusions that are demonstratively not real.

Nicoff, please don't go that way. We've already had enough of Octopus
I know you have a great system and probably a great sound. And if it sounds great and you don't see any changes by introducing power cables or other tweaks, that's good for you. Enjoy. But in my opinion the differences are not (so much) on the receiver side (each one of us) but on the sender side (the system). I can't explain why some systems show differences and others don't. But it is a fact. And many of these differences are so obvious that there is no way to diminish their impact or even deny it. My 10k system can, with the same active equipment, have a performance of 0.5K or 100k depending on the accessories and fine tuning. And this has already been witnessed by many (yes, I open my door to other audiophiles and expose my system, which many of the audio skeptics who are sure of everything about audio don't do. We know nothing about their systems or their performance, but judging by the certainties they leave written, they must have managed to achieve the best performances in home audio, no? :disbelief:…)
 
I think there are a few truths in the list we can discuss

Just saying

Such as?
I don't even see any of the claims as likely to be considered audio myths.
These guys take opinions of some audiophiles (such as "Tweeter type X is superior to tweeter type Y") and elevate them to the category of myths to have the opportunity to counter and have a subject.

Please, feel free to discuss these myths. ;)
I don't buy them!
 
Such as?
I don't even see any of the claims as likely to be considered audio myths.
These guys take opinions of some audiophiles (such as "Tweeter type X is superior to tweeter type Y") and elevate them to the category of myths to have the opportunity to counter and have a subject.

Please, feel free to discuss these myths. ;)
I don't buy them!

This is pretty much what I thought when I read the article, and why I started the topic. Straw Men, so to speak.
 
This article came up on my Google News feed. After skimming through it, my thought was how many audiophiles actually "believe" in any of the "myths" (realizing that this article is perhaps aimed more at the home theater audience rather than audiophiles per se)?

10 Audio Myths Debunked For Better Sound | Audioholics

Interesting. I'm not an Audioholics fan but their responses for some questions weren't half bad.

I have my own list of high-end audio myths, folklore, etc.

1. The room is the most important component.

2. Accessories are well, errrr, ummmmm accessories.

3. Floor-borne vibrations induce more sonic harm than other sources of vibrations.

4. Vibration isolation is possible to achieve and/or the only genuine vibration mgmt methodology.

5. Superior / more natural dynamics cannot be accomplished with a passive linestage / volume attenuator.

6. The much coveted "jump factor" characteristic is a sign of improved musicality.

7. Aftermarket acoustic treatments are a requirement for superior sonics.

8. Ballpark estimates are good enough for superior speaker and/or subwoofer placement / tuning.

9. My AC is clean because all AC is clean. Or because I live in a quiet residentual neighborhood. Or because I live just down the road from the local sub-station. Or because a technican from the local power company measured my AC and told me it was clean.

10. Dedicated circuits / lines imply that my AC doesn't need to be filtered, conditioned, purified, and/or cleansed.

11. Our ability to sufficiently discern / interpret what we hear was inherited at birth and/or We can sufficiently discern / interpret what we hear because we passed a hearing test last year.

12. Token or half-assed efforts are good enough.

13. In-room recordings are of little/no value and instead one's worded claims ought to hold greater value.

14. There is usually a direct correlation between cost and performance and/or one must spend a lot to achieve a truly musical SOTA level of playback performance.

15. Vibration isolation products take time to settle-in before sounding their best.

16. High-level subwoofer connections will retain the main amp's sonic signature.

17. Subwoofer cable quality is unimportant since subs only deal with lower frequencies.

I'm forgetting a few but IMO these are some of high-end audio's more popular myths, folklore, chasing windmills, or as I prefer to call them - preconceived narratives. And are the most sonically destructive. Well, some of them anyway.
 
I would say #13 is mostly true as it is practiced, which is not to say that verbal descriptions are any better. If people made and posted in-room recordings using a binaural head and high-quality mics, with at least 16/44.1 PCM quality, that could be a different story. Let us know where some of those can be found.
 
In room recordings are not a standard , they are references ..!

If recorded with consistency in room recordings can be used as references when doing changes or compares ..



Regards
 
In room recordings are not a standard , they are references ..!

If recorded with consistency in room recordings can be used as references when doing changes or compares ..

Regards
Only for the individual, not for a shared audience, which I believe was the “myth”.

And back to the myths, #1 is hardly a myth if one modifies it slightly to be speaker/room “interaction”
 
I read the article. Some good info there. Like anything else in audio, no one person or group has a monopoly on what is right or correct. Music is art. Audio is engineering. We hear with our brains, not our ears, so an understanding of perception is important to understanding what we hear and why. Fun stuff.
 
I have my own list of high-end audio myths, folklore, etc.


Hi, Stehno!
I think your miths are a challenge to all of us to answer.
So i'm gonna try to answer to some of them in a random way. Don't forget to answer to my answers. ;)

Ok, first
15. Vibration isolation products take time to settle-in before sounding their best.

I said it recently in another post. It is not the devices. It´s the gear. Once you move it, you need to wait a little to the gear to calms down. You can hear differences immediately when you replace the feet or put some base to isolate vibrations, but i could swear that if you wait a little, changes may be more obvious.
 
Hi, Stehno!
I think your miths are a challenge to all of us to answer.
So i'm gonna try to answer to some of them in a random way. Don't forget to answer to my answers. ;)

Ok, first


I said it recently in another post. It is not the devices. It´s the gear. Once you move it, you need to wait a little to the gear to calms down. You can hear differences immediately when you replace the feet or put some base to isolate vibrations, but i could swear that if you wait a little, changes may be more obvious.

Hi, Spock. Good to hear from you.

Vibration mgmt has to do with unwanted mechanical (and electrical) energy which is always present as is its ability / inability to travel. Unwanted energy is that which induces sonic harm to the playback presentation. True isolation, which nobody is able to practice, occurs in a moment in time i.e. in the blink of an eye. If we think of an elelctrical example where I desire to isolate electrical energy so the lightbulb in that lamp will never illuminate again, I take a pair of scissors and cut the lamp cord. Instantaneously, that lightbulb is isolated from the unwanted energy. No settling-in period. In the case of mechanical energy, whether it's traveling along an electrical wire or electrical object or the metal structure within a component is still mechanical energy traveling.

(It's important to remember that when electric current is flowing through an electrical object of any sort, that current flow will induce a mechanical vibration. And when it does, that electrical object is now generating a resonant energy or mechanical vibration and that elecltrical object also becomes an energy conduit for mechanical as well as electrical energy.)

The vibration isolationist inserts their vibration isolation object, say a footer sandwiched between a component and shelf, a type of racking system, footers under speakers, etc. If it's truly designed to isolate, the act of isolation will be instantaneous. Think of inserting a box of sand or kitty litter or sponge or Sorbothane under a component. These would be considered reasonable acts of isolation and once inserted mechanical energy's ability to travel away from its point source is either instantly greatly retarded or ceased entirely.

On the other hand, mechanical settling-in is the result of time and pressure. Sufficiently installing a rigid say metal footer under a component or speaker will always take time as a certain type of molecular bond occurs over time (and pressure) to improve its ability to transfer mechanical energy from one disparate object to the next. If we think of an architectual structure anchored to say a concrete slab foundation, we know from experience that structure never fully settles but continues to settle-in over time i.e. 1 year, 5 years, 50 years, etc. IOW, the act of settling never entirely ceases as various cracks in the drywall over time to substantiate that. And the more time and pressure is available the more congruent these normally disparate objects become and the more congruent the more resonant energy is free to travel.

Part of the confusion is that manufacturers of vibration mgmt products erroneously claim their products adhere to the vibration isolation methodology when in fact the often times rigid product actually promotes the ability for mechanical energy to travel rather than isolate.

At least theoretically, if I squeezed two pennies extremely tight into a vice and came back the next day to release the vice, the two pennies will instantaneously separate as they drop toward the floor. But if I wait 100 years and then release the vice, there would have been an oh-so-slight melding between the two pennies almost like a light weld so that they drop to the floor as one and might even remain as one after hitting the floor.

But another overlooked area is that with mechanical objects and their settling-in time, if there is any movement even at the microscopic level, then the act of true settling-in is greatly compromised and can indeed act a bit as an isolator. Why? Because if you place 3 spikes under a speaker and those spikes are tightly coupled at the sub-flooring, the mechanical energy generated by the speaker will cause it to move ever so microscopically on top of the spikes, hence never having opportunity to mechanically settle in. In contrast, if those spikes are tightly coupled at the sub-floor and fastened tightly to the base of the speaker cabinet, then over the next days, weeks, or even months, a truer form of mechanical settling-in occurs as the mechanical conduit (the spikes) improves over time - like the two pennies in a vice or the architectual structure anchored to the concrete slab.

But without the opportunity to tightly fasten the spikes to the speaker, the act of mechanical settling-in can never really start. So a product designer adhering to the isolation methodology erroneously will claim his product is isolating when in reality everything about the project including its design and materials are those used by say me who adheres strictly to the resonant energy transfer principles. But what the isolationist designer is unaware of is his inferior installation method (lack of tightly fastening his product) will cause it to behave more like an isolating product. But he doesn't know it. Confusing, eh?

But also to be clear, nobody is able to 100% isolate an object from all sources of vibration simultaneously (though many will go to their graves trying) just as nobody is able to transfer 100% of resonant energy from one disparate object to the next. Whether we actively partake or not, we're all practicing a hybrid of the two methodologies. But the more one leans toward true isolation, the more instantaneous the results.

Andy yes, you may indeed hear some differences immediately especially when decoupling. But my focus in actual improvements and I'm unaware of any improvements occurring the more true the act of isolating. Because the more true the act of isolation is adhered to the more the mechanical energy remains trapped at its point source (the components or speakers). Because one can isolate against a single source of vibrations (just not all sources) and when one successfully isolates an object against one source of vibrations, they instantaneously trap at least least one other source of vibration at the oject so that it must release all of its energy somewhere within its trapped spaces. In contrast, sufficient means of resonant energy transfer occurs over time. Time and pressure. The more time and/or pressure the greater the results.
 
In room recordings are not a standard , they are references ..!

If recorded with consistency in room recordings can be used as references when doing changes or compares ..

Regards

Who says something has to be a standard before given credence? The entire industry is all over the map on most any subject matter but in-room recordings must be a standard? Or are you just trying to start another myth? :)

BTW, all of my in-room videos are done with tremendous consistency.
 
...
On the other hand, mechanical settling-in is the result of time and pressure.
.../...
Time and pressure. The more time and/or pressure the greater the results.

Thanks for your detailed explanation.:thumbsup:

I guess I was wrong. If I understood correctly, in short we can say that is not (only) the gear as I thought. With pressure and time (*) the gear and the device accommodate each other, and the effect becomes more intense.

(*) I as not seeing how time can have an effect but your example of the two pennies is perfectly illuminating.

Let´s try another! ;)

17. Subwoofer cable quality is unimportant since subs only deal with lower frequencies.

I made this mistake for to much time.
It was just when I moved my subwoofer to the center of the main speakers that I realized how a better subwoofer cable could improve the sound.
As I didn't need more the 5 meters (only 1,5), I decided to try an up grade in the cable.

WOW! What a difference!
 
Who says something has to be a standard before given credence? The entire industry is all over the map on most any subject matter but in-room recordings must be a standard? Or are you just trying to start another myth? :)

BTW, all of my in-room videos are done with tremendous consistency.

Read what i wrote again , :roflmao:
 
I would say #13 is mostly true as it is practiced, which is not to say that verbal descriptions are any better. If people made and posted in-room recordings using a binaural head and high-quality mics, with at least 16/44.1 PCM quality, that could be a different story. Let us know where some of those can be found.

I suppose it depends on one's experience - especially with generating in-room recordings.

I find in-room video recordings quite telling. Telling about the author including their take on music quality, their ability to discern what they hear and their ability to compile a musical playback system. Telling about those who comment on such videos. Even telling of those who refrain from commenting on such videos when perhaps they should.

But I'm curious. Why must one use binarual head and high-quality mics with at least 16/44.1 PCM quality? Again, there's very few standards anywhere in this industry but in-room recordings should have standards? By this my videos would be disqualified because I don't binaraul mics. But I do use a $150 Shure MV88 small stereo condensor mic that plugs directly into my iPhone 12 pro. Others might raise a red flag that analog does not equate to PCM quality / detail.

But I do think there should be a handful of playback requirements. High-end audio enthusiasts are like anybody else. They are proudful, stubborn, and some sensitive to others' critiques. If one is to take another's in-room video seriously to judge in any way, shape, or form, or to publicly comment, then the listener at least ought to do their reasonable best to get the most out of the in-room recording. And that's not gonna' happen listening to a smartphone's built-in speaker at elevator music volume levels. For example. Some playback suggestions include:

1. A reasonable or better set of headphones. Since some-to-many earbuds and smartphone speakers can be quite restrictive in what they produce.
2. A computer to plug the headphones into. Only because many smartphones don't include headphone jacks.
3. Playback volume must have substance. Especially since the closer we get to elevator music volume levels the more everything sounds the same.

One other thing is that the in-room video author should suggest a headphone volume level to the readers/listeners to help ensure the listener is getting what the author thinks they should get.


Here's an in-room recording I recently created. IMO, playback sounds best when volume level is set to maximum volume on my macbook pro with reasonable-or-better headphones.
 
Thanks for your detailed explanation.:thumbsup:

I guess I was wrong. If I understood correctly, in short we can say that is not (only) the gear as I thought. With pressure and time (*) the gear and the device accommodate each other, and the effect becomes more intense.

(*) I as not seeing how time can have an effect but your example of the two pennies is perfectly illuminating.

Let´s try another! ;)



I made this mistake for to much time.
It was just when I moved my subwoofer to the center of the main speakers that I realized how a better subwoofer cable could improve the sound.
As I didn't need more the 5 meters (only 1,5), I decided to try an up grade in the cable.

WOW! What a difference!

Well, you have no question here but indeed. I learned a long time ago that the first thing to do when attempting to tune/voice a subwoofer to mate to a pair of "full-range" speakers was to ensure the same cabling I'm using elsewhere is also used for the sub. Cables do induce a sonic signature and even a tempo of sorts. Hence, the need to ensure the sub mates best with the mains is to use the same cabling at the sub. Mating a sub to full-range speakers ain't no easy task for me anyway. At least this helps ensure I'm starting off on the right foot.
 
Only for the individual, not for a shared audience, which I believe was the “myth”.

And back to the myths, #1 is hardly a myth if one modifies it slightly to be speaker/room “interaction”

Excellent point. Thanks for the correction. It's no secret that many will claim the room is the most important component. I won't pretend to understand fully what they mean but I interpret such claims as the following:

1. Custom rooms?

2. Aftermarket acoustic treatments?

3. Specific room sizes?

4. Custom materials?

5. Etc.

But in my defense, I would say that the room is not the emphasis to your last statement or at least not the only emphasis. Rather it's the emphasis on the speaker/room interaction. First because it's regardless of a specific speaker and a specific type of room. In fact, I call this very important sector the act of acoustically coupling a speaker to its associated room. It's very important because this plays such a significant role in playback bass, balance, tonality, warmth, etc and just overall presentation.

In fact, I just realized a while ago this speaker/room interaction has an acoustic noise floor threshold. Move a speaker here and new bass notes appear and all audible bass notes become more well-defined. Move the speaker there and bass notes disappear and those that remain audible are more poorly-defined. So there's a playback system's electrically-induced noise floor threshold and there is also an acoustically-induced noise floor threshold induced by acousitcally coupling a speaker with its associated room. But this can be done at least theoretically with any room. Though I'm sure it's more difficult with some room than others. Especially when getting into non-symmetrical or weird shaped room configs.

But thanks for the correction.
 
...
But in my defense, I would say that the room is not the emphasis to your last statement or at least not the only emphasis. Rather it's the emphasis on the speaker/room interaction...

Very true. I suspect more of us are wedded to one room than to one speaker, and when that is the case then choosing one's speakers depends on much more than just finding one that sounds best at a dealer's or at a show. More power to those who can decide on their favorite speaker and then be able to build or find a room to match (of course, some have done just that; Steve Williams of WBF comes to mind)
 
Very true. I suspect more of us are wedded to one room than to one speaker, and when that is the case then choosing one's speakers depends on much more than just finding one that sounds best at a dealer's or at a show. More power to those who can decide on their favorite speaker and then be able to build or find a room to match (of course, some have done just that; Steve Williams of WBF comes to mind)

Actually I was trying to imply that this speaker / room interaction that we both discussed is regardless of speaker and regardless of room. Even if it's a custom room supposedly built with a specific speaker in mind, the only way I know to achieve a superior interaction aka an acoustic coupling is speaker placement regardless of room type or quality.
 
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