Thread: Anyone here gone from high end digital front end to active crossovers?

Hey all, still doing a lot of research on a potential upgrade from my La Scala IIs in the coming year. Since I love my La Scala IIs (just want to take things up a notch) naturally I've been investigating the Jubilees... the one thing I can't wrap my head around is that I spent most of the year working out my digital front end, starting with the Innuos server and finally getting to "end game" with the M Scaler & TT2 combo. It's been a significant upgrade and one that I am still very much thrilled with.

The Jubilees sound like they could be "end game" as well on the speaker side of things. I figure I could make it work with my existing Luxman amps but one thing I can't wrap my head around is the idea of throwing all of that digital "journey" to the wayside in order to go with active crossovers/DSP for the Jubilees. Basically redigitizing everything through an industrial $5 DAC built into an active crossover and trusting that the Jubilees can make up for it with their glorious sound.

I've been told several times that "you won't even tell the difference," but having developed a taste for the Rob Watts Kool-Aid, this goes against all my instincts. I also read Mike's comments about the Avantgarde Zero 1 XDs, where the overall synergy of the Zero 1 XD (built in amps, built in DAC, built in everything) makes abandoning your own amps and DACs a non-issue. There's a definite premium between the Zero 1 XD and the more DIY Jubilee setup, so I don't know if it's a fair comparison (the Burr Brown DAC in the Z1XD vs whatever is in something like the Xilica crossover).

Can anyone share any experience they've had going from a high end digital system to a major powered/active system like the Jubilee/Avantgarde - did the horns make up for the digital bits, did you miss anything, was it worth it, etc?

I need to research your gear but at this point I don't understand why you couldn't use your digital front end? Joe still does with his AG's.

My friend uses a Lampizator DAC into a preamp and still uses the Wavelet (DSP/crossover) of his Legacy V set up. As well a stack of JL Audio subs.

Another guy's system I heard used outboard crossovers on Klipschorns, he used an Esoteric DAC with variable outs into the crossover then into 6 Jeff Rowland monoblocks.

I've had some Klipsch and heard many others, my preference in horns is definitely JBL.

It seems like you should still be able to use the output signal from your digital source and insert the crossover downstream somewhere.

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

I need to research your gear but at this point I don't understand why you couldn't use your digital front end? Joe still does with his AG's.

My friend uses a Lampizator DAC into a preamp and still uses the Wavelet (DSP/crossover) of his Legacy V set up. As well a stack of JL Audio subs.

Another guy's system I heard used outboard crossovers on Klipschorns, he used an Esoteric DAC with variable outs into the crossover then into 6 Jeff Rowland monoblocks.

I've had some Klipsch and heard many others, my preference in horns is definitely JBL.

It seems like you should still be able to use the output signal from your digital source and insert the crossover downstream somewhere.

With the Jubilees you're using an active crossover between the bass bin and the K402 horn, so what's happening is you're feeding audio signal in from 4 channels (top L, bottom L, top R, bottom L) into an active crossover like the Xilica XD 4080, which uses a 24/96 DSP engine to re-digitize everything and re-convert it to audio - so you're doing D/A from the Chord stack to the amps, then A/D/A at the crossover. A higher quality source like the Chord TT2 is always going to feed "better" information into the Xilica DSP DAC but you're still going through that extra conversion... So a $10,000 Chord TT2/M Scaler is probably way overkill since all those 1 million taps are getting re-digitized at the crossover.

I'm not sure how that works with the higher end Duo AG-stuff, but the Zero 1 XD does use DSP (Burr Brown DAC) at the crossover... the Zero 1 TA actually does not use DSP except for the subwoofer part of the speaker (bring your own amp and DAC). Not sure how the Legacy stuff works either... if he's feeding the Lampizator into the Wavelet DSP it's probably getting re-digitized at some point down the line.

When you say you prefer JBL, is that the 4367 vs something like the Klipschorn or Jubilee?

There is a way to bypass the Wavelet's DAC. I'll have to check, I wonder if the DSP is digital in that piece, I know he uses that part of it. I've heard the system enough to know that changes upstream still make a difference.

I know what you mean though, It just doesn't sit right in our head the signal should be manipulated that much.

I have not heard the Jubilee. The 4367 is stunning, IMO. I also liked the horns on the LS series which were reasonably priced. My statement was more broad, or, in general comparison. I haven't heard Klipsch's Reference line in years, there was a point where they had the Ref 63 I was impressed. And, the Paladium was good. I find the Heritage series to be a lot of fun but the horns really aren't as smooth and refined as even less expensive JBL to my ears.

I also like ATC a lot.

Check with SCAudiophile as he's been using a Wavelet for years and you can if I remember right bypass everything except the DSP functions including the preamp and the DAC.

i have been told by some that the back and forth conversion is irrelevant and you cant tell the difference. i have been told by others that keeping it pure all the way is the only way to go and i am degrading the sound with conversions. The latter makes sense to me but the former works great and sounds great. I have tried real hard to find the degradation in my system to no avail. But that's just me....

Originally Posted by JSQT

With the Jubilees you're using an active crossover between the bass bin and the K402 horn, so what's happening is you're feeding audio signal in from 4 channels (top L, bottom L, top R, bottom L) into an active crossover like the Xilica XD 4080

That's a very small part of the equation. The much larger and more crucial part is the measurements of said units, the engineering/science knowledge and skill of the measurerer, to then properly program the DSP, remeasure, listen, etc, etc.
That's all before the room is accounted for, just the speakers. Not quite clear on these parts with what you are discussing.
All that can be done with La Scalas as well of course. Based on the rare measurements I've seen online, there is room for huge improvement.
Or disaster.

cheers,

AJ

Well I believe I have solved all my speaker problems and questions - on Friday Greg Roberts himself will be coming by my house with the CAF Rival demos to replace my La Scala IIs. I've heard about these speakers for several years and made the decision to buy them within 10 minutes of sitting in the room. The fact that Greg will be delivering them and helping me set up/optimize them in my home was just too good of an opportunity to pass up.

I am psyched!!

These are my new speakers:

http://voltiaudio.com/BC19Rivals.shtml

That’s awesome! Congratulations.

What a great opportunity and great speaker.

Congrats, have heard several of Greg's speakers over the years, including at FL Expo, very nice sound. Enjoy!

Congrats, Volti sounds great

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

I need to research your gear but at this point I don't understand why you couldn't use your digital front end? Joe still does with his AG's.

My friend uses a Lampizator DAC into a preamp and still uses the Wavelet (DSP/crossover) of his Legacy V set up. As well a stack of JL Audio subs.

Another guy's system I heard used outboard crossovers on Klipschorns, he used an Esoteric DAC with variable outs into the crossover then into 6 Jeff Rowland monoblocks.

I've had some Klipsch and heard many others, my preference in horns is definitely JBL.

It seems like you should still be able to use the output signal from your digital source and insert the crossover downstream somewhere.

We have a friend in common,...I've known the owner of the system in STL you are talking about for quite few years and he uses Lampizator (now Pacific) DAC
into a DUDE preamp into the Wavelet. I have also come straight out of an Esoteric C-03 and later a C-03 into the Wavelet to my Legacy AERIS and now my
newest Legacy setup. Currently, I've sold off the C-02 pre-amp and come straight out of my D-02 DAC using it's volume control straight into the analog inputs
again on the Wavelet with exemplary results.

Congratulations to JSQT on the new Volti speakers; that is a fantastic line of speakers!!!