Thread: $2300 cartridge on a $600 TT?

Would you put a $2300 cartridge on a $600 TT?
I just did and it sure surprised me. The title is a little misleading but now that I have your attention here’s the chase scene.

I have an original Rega P3 with RB 300 at our lake house. Probably dates back to the mid 90’s. I killed the mediocre Rega cartridge in a cleaning accident. No, alcohol was not involved. I also had a low hour Dynavector Karat 17D3 I pulled out of my main TT setup in favor of a Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation.

So why not mount the Dynavector in the RB-300? Common knowledge says you shouldn’t put an expensive cartridge in a cheap arm/TT. Horses for courses and all that.

I was surprised that the new price of the replacement 17DX is $2300. Wow! Anyway a check of the arm resonance checked out at 10 Hz so it’s a go.

I got out the Dr. Feickardt and Fozgometer and give it a go.

What a PITA. The super short 1.7 mm Diamond cantilever was almost invisible. Lots of magnification and light and several hours later all was setup.

It sounds fantastic! I’m glad I did it. Maybe the RB-300 arm is special. Dunno. Based on this experience I’d ‘over cartridge’ anyday.

As long as the cart is compatible with the arm and the arm is of known good quality, I see no reason why you couldn't throw a $5000 cart on a $600 TT.

Honestly, when you think about it, the TT plinth and platter has very very little to do with the sound quality of a TT. If the build quality is decent and sensibly solid, they shouldn't even be a factor in sound, and they're not supposed to be anyway.

Heck, I use an $800 Audio-Technica AT-OC9XSL on a 45 year old, bone stock, all original Technics SL-1700MK2 and it sounds excellent, though I could stand to upgrade the Schiit Mani phono preamp to a Pass Labs XP-17, which I will eventually.

I agree. I’ve always thought the cart was most important, then the arm, and finally the table itself. That doesn’t seem to jibe with ‘conventional wisdom’ where the table itself seems to be given a lot more importance than perhaps it is due.

Originally Posted by W9TR

I agree. I’ve always thought the cart was most important, then the arm, and finally the table itself. That doesn’t seem to jibe with ‘conventional wisdom’ where the table itself seems to be given a lot more importance than perhaps it is due.

Well we are definitely in the minority.

A silent steady motor is a necessity, but to have a plinth that weighs 700 lbs and a platter that weighs an additional 100 lbs is a bit extreme and doesn't contribute anything to the overall sound. Naturally, I understand the importance of a good weighted platter for its rotational momentum to smooth out the speed of the motor even more, but that is easily done with any quality platter that weighs several pounds or so. I think even the lightest Technics DD TT platter weighs in at over 3.5 lbs, which is about what mine weighs, and it is dead steady.

To me, the order of importance for vinyl playback is...

1. A well built TT with a silent, steady motor and a well known quality tone arm
2. Complete compatibility of the cartridge and tone arm as one unit (together, this IS your source)
3. A quality phono preamp that allows proper loading and gain of the cartridge

RANT ON
One of the things that has always bugged me about some reviewers of TT's (especially YouTube reviewers) is that they will compare the sound to two different TT's not even taking into consideration that both turntables have totally different cartridges mounted to them from the factory. This makes absolutely no sense and make any opinions they make totally moot. You can NOT compare two turntables with different cartridges on them. That's just as stupid and pointless as doing a blind A-B test on two stereo amplifiers, only having each amplifier connected to a totally different pair of loudspeakers.
RANT OFF

Thanks for sharing. When upgrading years ago I found no consensus from those I asked.

I heard a similar thing when a friend hooked up a basic Sota table using a PS Audio phono stage, he had an AQ cart made by Lyra. The cart must have been outstanding because that rig sounded way better than it should have and expectations. It was giving his very expensive digital side a run for the money.

Originally Posted by W9TR

I agree. I’ve always thought the cart was most important, then the arm, and finally the table itself. That doesn’t seem to jibe with ‘conventional wisdom’ where the table itself seems to be given a lot more importance than perhaps it is due.

Well, Linn's and Rega's philosophy for the last 40 years or so has been the table itself is the most important, and personally, based on my own experience, I would agree.

Some author once said the cartridge is vibrating like mad at the end of a long stick and how that stick controls and dissipates energy is important. I thought that was a pretty good analogy. It makes sense to me. I think arms are very important #2 and contribute heavily to the overall experience.

The actual TT style not so much. I have a very high mass (22 kg) platter on my main TT powered by a very small synchronous motor. That works great. I’m sure a lower mass feedback controlled DD or rim drive table would work equally well.

It seems to me that reviewers focus on the turntable more than the arm/cartridge combo. Art Dudley waxing poetic about old German rim drives fell into this category. Not that the ’tables themselves are not important. They certainly are. Fun stuff!

I've experimented with the same cartridge across a range of turntable (which includes the motor) + tonearm combinations, and then different cartridges with the same turntable + tonearm.

I don't think it would surprise most people when I say there are definite improvements to the final sound when you "improve" one while keeping the other the same. I found the main areas of improvement to be different though. Improving the table and tonearm usually resulted in a more solid and coherent sound. Improving the cartridge usually resulted in more detail and better tonal balance.

All other things being equal, I would still recommend investing more in the table up front simply because it is pretty easy to change cartridges (and they're going to need to be replaced eventually anyway if you use your turntable often) and you're more likely to stick with a turntable for a long time.

Originally Posted by NekoAudio

All other things being equal, I would still recommend investing more in the table up front simply because it is pretty easy to change cartridges (and they're going to need to be replaced eventually anyway if you use your turntable often) and you're more likely to stick with a turntable for a long time.

Yep. And, if you had a discussion around this subject with Ivor Tiefenbrun, he'd tell you it's the main bearing of the turntable that is the most important "component" of all.

This is also why Roy Gandy has developed "zero-tolerance" bearings for the main bearing for Rega turntables.

Originally Posted by W9TR

Some author once said the cartridge is vibrating like mad at the end of a long stick and how that stick controls and dissipates energy is important. I thought that was a pretty good analogy. It makes sense to me. I think arms are very important #2 and contribute heavily to the overall experience.

The actual TT style not so much. I have a very high mass (22 kg) platter on my main TT powered by a very small synchronous motor. That works great. I’m sure a lower mass feedback controlled DD or rim drive table would work equally well.

It seems to me that reviewers focus on the turntable more than the arm/cartridge combo. Art Dudley waxing poetic about old German rim drives fell into this category. Not that the ’tables themselves are not important. They certainly are. Fun stuff!

Are they reviewing a turntable that came supplied with a tonearm and cartridge, a table that came supplied with a tonearm, or just a table with no arm or cartridge? That would make a difference on where the focus of the review will be aimed. For example, if a manufacturer sends you just a table for review (sans arm and cartridge), your focus will be on the table and how it influences the sound of the arm and cartridge you mounted on it.

Good point, this makes a lot of sense. I’d have to go back and look at some reviews to see what it is they’re actually reviewing, a complete record playing system or just the turntable. With cartridge and arm reviews it’s a lot clearer.

Link to interview I conducted with Roy Gandy and Phil Freeman of Rega. Scroll down to the bottome of the review for the interview. https://soundorg.com/content/Rega_In...JulAug2021.pdf

Currently the price of the Rega Planar 3 is about $1400. I think this is the successor to the P3, which I owned in the late '80's. So it is a little closer to the cartridge price. Larry