Focal Utopia III Scala V2's in the house!

Mike-You were looking for reasons, I offered up one. I'm not picking sides, just offering up commentary. Maybe Wilson, YG, Rockport, and Magico have wasted time and money explaining why they use the materials they do to build their speakers and the average audiophile has no idea what their speakers of made from when they plunk down their large green or they do know what their speakers are made from and simply don't care.

I don't believe for a minute they aren't as popular due to material. They have a technical resonance reason for using the materials they do - and it works. My guess is that they just aren't as well reviewed. They don't get the press they deserve. And let's not forget, Focal is one of the few companies out there that build their own drivers and crossovers. That's no small feat of engineering.


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If you are talking about Ian, he appears to have some other issues in his room that aren't related to his speakers that are causing his system to sound less than optimum. Ian has been getting a steady stream of advice on what he needs to do electrically in order to support his system and make it sound better. I hope he chases down the source of his issues and gets the SQ he deserves and paid for.

Others - including his dealer - have heard his system and say it sounds amazing. The power wasn't an issue with his S5's. The things Ian is saying about certain instruments not sounding "the way they should" leads me to believe the left brain audiophile path he's on, just might be the wrong one. The left brains in this hobby believe if it measure well, uses state of the art materials and is built tighter than a nuclear submarine, than it must sound good for everyone, right? Wrong. VTSkier (Jon) had a great post about this very thing. He told Ian "just because some people love the M Projects doesn't mean you will." For example, a case in point, I don't see many in the Shindo crowd ever switching to this type of speaker. But, we could be totally wrong and it might just be something related to power.

And let me reiterate, I would LOVE to own the M Projects.

Ian is a great guy. He's been to my house and we've enjoyed many discussions. He has an amazing passion for this hobby. I hope he finds the sound he wants.


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I don't believe for a minute they aren't as popular due to material. They have a technical resonance reason for using the materials they do - and it works. My guess is that they just aren't as well reviewed. They don't get the press they deserve. And let's not forget, Focal is one of the few companies out there that build their own drivers and crossovers. That's no small feat of engineering.


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Mike-you may well be right in your opinion for why Focal isn't getting their just due in the U.S.
 
Of course you can't tell that by looking at the outside anymore more than you can look at a Wilson speaker from the outside and tell it was made from some alphabet soup of different composite materials. I never said the finish on Focal speakers isn't top notch because that wasn't the point. Many of the top brands of audio speakers that compete in the stratosphere of pricing don't use MDF. Alon Wolf is on record as saying it's terrible sounding even compared to Baltic birch plywood and you can't keep screws tight in it. Both YG and Magico are using aluminum. Wilson and Rockport are using non-wood based materials.

Look, Mike asked why Focal wasn't getting the attention he felt they deserved in the U.S. marketplace and I offered up the MDF enclosures as one possible reason. I'm not trying to proclaim that MDF enclosures can't sound just dandy. If you are going to spend at least $50K on a pair of speakers, some audiophiles might question why they should be buying a pair of speakers that are made from common garden variety MDF (which the majority of speakers in the marketplace are made of) and not be buying something 'special' from one of the herd brands that is made from aluminum, composite materials, or resin.

Mike brought up the tweeter and he may have a point there as well. There are people on other forums who claim they can hear a Focal tweeter ring like they can hear their telephone ring. One guy who doesn't own Wilson speakers said that all Wilson owners should demand that Wilson upgrade their speakers with the new soft dome tweeter they are now using because of how badly the Focal tweeter rings. Of course this pissed off lots of the Wilson owners on the forum who have very expensive Wilson speakers with the Focal tweeter. The point here is that there is some amount of negative buzz in audiophile land about Focal tweeters.
I know what you said and why you said it. But that is excatly why I oppose to it. Maybe it is just my approach but I like this high-end audio world because of:

1 The sound quality
. I just like to listen to music and if the reproduction is sounding great that is a big extra in the experience. Since it is so darn expensive and visible in the living room (I don't have the luxury of my own listening room although I have to admit we do have a small disco for my teenage kids in the back of the garden:P) it should be:

Good looking.

Now I also have to admit that during my endless quest of improvement I became very interested in the technology and I admire some designs and technologies. So yes technology is a -remote- third.

3 Technology.

But frankly, if 1 and 2 are ok number 3 is just a theory. I don't care what Alon Wolff of David Wilson or any other guru say. I am the only judge of good or not good.
 
I don't care what Alon Wolff of David Wilson or any other guru say. I am the only judge of good or not good.

Bingo! I'd love to explore this more in another thread and discuss the cultural differences between audiophiles here and the ones in Europe. Speaking in general terms of course.

I wanted to also ask you about T+A. I am in love with the sound and features of my new PDP 3000 HV from T+A and the build quality is second to none (right up there with Accuphase IMO). But, over here, the brand, once again, gets no love. Correct me if I'm wrong, but T+A is very very popular in Europe?






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I would give my left you know what for those. Can you imagine those with my XS amps? OMG!

But you sold your S5s saying they were clinical, sterile, etc. despite running them on tubes. By all accounts the M Projects are even moreso.

Color me puzzled
 
That's what I've always heard too. They are a particular target, of Dynaudio guys. I seem to recall the words "running from the room" bandied about, lol.

But yeah...BE and Diamond tweeters; they've got to be expected, to be hot as hell. If you tell me they smooth out...I might have to start thinking about Diablos again; because I'm with Jax. I've always thought they looked, sexy as hell.

Nice Mike!

Particularly funny now that Dave Wilson has figured out his speakers were too bright with inverted titanium Focal tweets- which most of us old Dyn guys knew sounded wrong for years :)
 
But you sold your S5s saying they were clinical, sterile, etc. despite running them on tubes. By all accounts the M Projects are even moreso.

Color me puzzled

Keith - I would make sure I had the right amps for the M's. I truthfully didn't with the S5's. I've heard with S5's with the big Vitus amps and Holy S* - AWESOME! I heard this entire Ray Charles Genius Loves Company SACD and it was off the charts real. I've also heard the S5's now with Pass and again, excellent. This time: Pass or Vitus only.

Mike
 
Particularly funny now that Dave Wilson has figured out his speakers were too bright with inverted titanium Focal tweets- which most of us old Dyn guys knew sounded wrong for years :)

The DynAudio C2 Platinums might just be the best all around DynAudio speaker I've heard. Really excellent for most rooms too.
 
I read from one speaker manufacture...can't remember who right now...that there are different grades of MDF. That you can't just assume, all MDF...is like what you see, at the local Home Depot.
 
I am the only judge of good or not good.

Perhaps you should have caveated that statement by saying when it comes to spending your money on audio gear, you are the only judge of good or not good. There are tons of people who are making judgments on audio gear every day.
 
Keith - I would make sure I had the right amps for the M's. I truthfully didn't with the S5's. I've heard with S5's with the big Vitus amps and Holy S* - AWESOME! I heard this entire Ray Charles Genius Loves Company SACD and it was off the charts real. I've also heard the S5's now with Pass and again, excellent. This time: Pass or Vitus only.

Mike

I can't imagine the amps would make that big of a difference considering the gear you had. Room, maybe.

After having yet another in-home extended demo (this time with YGs), I feel its the only way to properly evaluate a speaker. We can always have a nice listening session somewhere else- but the flaws never pop out until at home after several days. And first impressions aren't always the correct ones (as I'm finding out now).

Anyways, the Strads and Magicos are so opposite in philosophy/sound, I find it hard to think you'd ever like a Magico. You might just be chasing a unicorn...if you read your comments on that long Alexia WBF thread (I read them recently), I think you should keep the faith :)

GL with the Scalas.
 
Particularly funny now that Dave Wilson has figured out his speakers were too bright with inverted titanium Focal tweets- which most of us old Dyn guys knew sounded wrong for years :)
Or maybe you old Dyn guys were wrong. The original Utopia range with inverse titanium dome as well as the Electra range sounded pretty sweet provided the right (best tube) amp was connected.
Yes the tweeter could easily get bright but on the flip side gave a wonderful amount of detail.

Perhaps you should have caveated that statement by saying when it comes to spending your money on audio gear, you are the only judge of good or not good. There are tons of people who are making judgments on audio gear every day.
I don't think we need to spell out everything that is obvious. FYI I would advise you to judge yourself too. It makes more sense than following the marketing statements from Alon Wolff or Dave Wilson.

Bingo! I'd love to explore this more in another thread and discuss the cultural differences between audiophiles here and the ones in Europe. Speaking in general terms of course.
Sure! I am glad if I can give you some insights. Of course I am just one guy coming from one country. We'd definitely need input from other Europeans. It would be good if you could travel to Munich next month. That is where you get an impression of European high-end culture.

I wanted to also ask you about T+A. I am in love with the sound and features of my new PDP 3000 HV from T+A and the build quality is second to none (right up there with Accuphase IMO). But, over here, the brand, once again, gets no love. Correct me if I'm wrong, but T+A is very very popular in Europe?
Yes I think it is very popular. I don't have any sales figures but I think they are doing fine.
They used to be famous for the continuation of the Braun design:
b-t-a-MP-PA-CD-1260-r-si_1013x565.jpg


As you say, great sound and build to last forever.
Than they entered high-end audio with the introduction of this series:
v10_rechts.gif

And now with the High Voltage series I think they have made it to the top.
T-A-A-3000-HV-f630x378-ffffff-C-dc954367-108329170.jpg
 
Great post Hans. I have read many great reviews on the T+A High Voltage series. I would love a chance to hear them matched with my Revels.
 
Great post Hans. I have read many great reviews on the T+A High Voltage series. I would love a chance to hear them matched with my Revels.
I would say that should be easy Mark. Mike is T+A dealer. I can imagine he would organize a session in your house with some T+A gear, letting the RUS 2 grow to its full strength!
It is gorgeous equipment. Even from the back side:
T-A-A-3000-HV-f960x960-ffffff-C-431a6457-112574574.jpg
 
Hans. Mark should hear this stack on his Salon 2's. I can make it happen. [emoji56]

a8b1fb7973242ad8ca40499fae06ffb0.jpg



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