Thread: Focal Utopia III Scala V2's in the house!

Originally Posted by Mike

As for the Devialet 400, if someone has the 200, don't even think twice about adding the second one if you can afford it.




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i agree. Adding the slave 200 added far more than power. A richer and more liquid sound emerged.

Congrats Mike! Always admired Focal. Must be really nice to have 2 excellent speakers with different presentations in one roof.

Mike I just noticed, you didn't haul these beast upstairs to your primary room

Does this model have the adjustable bass function like its big brother?

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

Does this model have the adjustable bass function like its big brother?

Yes!

Originally Posted by Mike

Yes!

Have you had a chance to play with it?

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

Have you had a chance to play with it?

Yes. But I'm leaving it as is until the speakers get some hours on them.


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Originally Posted by ctop

Congrats Mike! Always admired Focal. Must be really nice to have 2 excellent speakers with different presentations in one roof.

Thank you. It sure is a contrast.


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Some updated pics.


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Nice pics Mike

Your getting to be a better photographer

Im very happy they are working so well in your room.

Originally Posted by Mike

Yes. But I'm leaving it as is until the speakers get some hours on them.


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Hi Mike,

Any updates you can share with us on the Focals? It would be great to know more about these fine speakers!

Best,
Ken

Ken - they are still breaking in. I play them about 12 hours a day. I have not spiked them yet (they are still on wheels) because I'm still fine tuning their placement as the speaker breaks in and I'm waiting for the pin adapters for my Stillpoint SS's and I'm also investigating Nordost sort fut's as well in lieu of the stock spikes.

But I can tell you they play big, go low and the tweeter (which was a little hot out of the box) is definitely smoothing out. I also appreciate the bass/tweeter adjustability of the speaker as well. Until I spike them, I've toned down the setting of the bass a little.

I have noticed how musical they are and the driver integration is superb. They are also very easy to drive and pair well with the Devialet 400.

So far, I'm very impressed and their overall musicality and pleasurable listening experience has made a major dent into listening to my Strads.

Originally Posted by Mike

But I can tell you they play big, go low and the tweeter (which was a little hot out of the box) is definitely smoothing out. I also appreciate the bass/tweeter adjustability of the speaker as well. Until I spike them, I've toned down the setting of the bass a little.

Mike - With my Diablo's, I found it took between 400 and 500 hours for the BE tweeters to fully break-in.

Originally Posted by RLL1

Mike - With my Diablo's, I found it took between 400 and 500 hours for the BE tweeters to fully break-in.

Thank you. I was told 350+, so that makes sense. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Mike

So far, I'm very impressed and their overall musicality and pleasurable listening experience has made a major dent into listening to my Strads.

Oh oh... that is what I would have expected. The Strads are very 'audiophile' and all but the emotional involvement a Utopia can drag you into is phenomenal. Something that is hard to resist!
I can imagine that SAM will give the sound an extra boost towards perfection. I have a similar affair going on right now with Linn's speaker compensation software that comes with the Space Optimization program. The improvement is remarkable. So good things to come for you Mike!

Originally Posted by Glareskin

Oh oh... that is what I would have expected. The Strads are very 'audiophile' and all but the emotional involvement a Utopia can drag you into is phenomenal. Something that is hard to resist!
I can imagine that SAM will give the sound an extra boost towards perfection. I have a similar affair going on right now with Linn's speaker compensation software that comes with the Space Optimization program. The improvement is remarkable. So good things to come for you Mike!

The STRADS to be honest are the epitome of emotion from a speaker. They have such soul. But they give up a tiny bit of the audiophile goodies like laser like imaging and focus. The music with the STRADS is presented more as a "whole" rather than individual parts.

On the other hand, the Focals bring about a great balance of audiophile traits and musicality. I truly do not understand why Focal doesn't get more talk. They are super efficient, easy to drive, adjustable to fit the room, musical and my wife loves the look. I also love their adjustability for my room and the driver integration is perfection. Now with 500 or so hours on them, the tweeter is pure buttery smooth, but with all the detail. With the Devialet 400 on the Scala V2's, I just smile every time I sit down to listen.


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Originally Posted by Mike

The STRADS to be honest are the epitome of emotion from a speaker. They have such soul. But they give up a tiny bit of the audiophile goodies like laser like imaging and focus. The music with the STRADS is presented more as a "whole" rather than individual parts.

On the other hand, the Focals bring about a great balance of audiophile traits and musicality. I truly do not understand why Focal doesn't get more talk. They are super efficient, easy to drive, adjustable to fit the room, musical and my wife loves the look. I also love their adjustability for my room and the driver integration is perfection. Now with 500 or so hours on them, the tweeter is pure buttery smooth, but with all the detail. With the Devialet 400 on the Scala V2's, I just smile every time I sit down to listen.


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Could it be as simple as the fact that even their most expensive offerings are made from MDF?

Originally Posted by mep

Could it be as simple as the fact that even their most expensive offerings are made from MDF?

I don't think so. I haven't heard much about that. I've heard the concern about the focal tweeter, but its just not true once it gets some hours.

Originally Posted by Mike

On the other hand, the Focals bring about a great balance of audiophile traits and musicality. I truly do not understand why Focal doesn't get more talk. They are super efficient, easy to drive, adjustable to fit the room, musical and my wife loves the look. I also love their adjustability for my room and the driver integration is perfection. Now with 500 or so hours on them, the tweeter is pure buttery smooth, but with all the detail. With the Devialet 400 on the Scala V2's, I just smile every time I sit down to listen.


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Wow, sounds pretty awesome. Always liked the look of them. And when I've heard them at shows they impressed. I'd go for white though. : )

Originally Posted by Mike

I don't think so. I haven't heard much about that. I've heard the concern about the focal tweeter, but its just not true once it gets some hours.

That's what I've always heard too. They are a particular target, of Dynaudio guys. I seem to recall the words "running from the room" bandied about, lol.

But yeah...BE and Diamond tweeters; they've got to be expected, to be hot as hell. If you tell me they smooth out...I might have to start thinking about Diablos again; because I'm with Jax. I've always thought they looked, sexy as hell.

Nice Mike!

Originally Posted by CDLehner

That's what I've always heard too. They are a particular target, of Dynaudio guys. I seem to recall the words "running from the room" bandied about, lol.

But yeah...BE and Diamond tweeters; they've got to be expected, to be hot as hell. If you tell me they smooth out...I might have to start thinking about Diablos again; because I'm with Jax. I've always thought they looked, sexy as hell.

Nice Mike!

CD, not all Berilyum tweeters are hot. Revels are smooth as silk. And the new Focals are heard to be much smoother.
The B&W's diamond tweeter is good also, but still a little hot for my ears. But I'm sure that can be system dependant.

Originally Posted by Mike

On the other hand, the Focals bring about a great balance of audiophile traits and musicality. I truly do not understand why Focal doesn't get more talk. They are super efficient, easy to drive, adjustable to fit the room, musical and my wife loves the look. I also love their adjustability for my room and the driver integration is perfection. Now with 500 or so hours on them, the tweeter is pure buttery smooth, but with all the detail. With the Devialet 400 on the Scala V2's, I just smile every time I sit down to listen.


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Mike,

It sounds like the Scala are very special speakers. I would love to hear any of the Utopia Series. They are purposefully built for pure function. I'm a big fan of any speakers that allow contouring of the bass or treble. I would like to hear that tweeter. There are a few companies that have done a nice job of implementing the beryllium tweeter without the bite.

Best,
Ken

Originally Posted by Mike

The STRADS to be honest are the epitome of emotion from a speaker. They have such soul. But they give up a tiny bit of the audiophile goodies like laser like imaging and focus. The music with the STRADS is presented more as a "whole" rather than individual parts.

On the other hand, the Focals bring about a great balance of audiophile traits and musicality. I truly do not understand why Focal doesn't get more talk. They are super efficient, easy to drive, adjustable to fit the room, musical and my wife loves the look. I also love their adjustability for my room and the driver integration is perfection. Now with 500 or so hours on them, the tweeter is pure buttery smooth, but with all the detail. With the Devialet 400 on the Scala V2's, I just smile every time I sit down to listen.

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I think we have a slightly different definition of the term 'audiophile'. To me an 'audiophile' sound is always trimmed on the warm side. Making every track sound very nice. Unpleasant details are niced-up a little bit (not covered up!). The emphasis of the sound is on beautiful. You will not easily get tired of this sound.
The Focal's are in my opinion more revealing but at the same time rhythmically more inviting you to tap your toes, playing music in an honest way and throwing in a lot of dynamics without aggression, even though much more in-your-face than the SF's.

On the other hand, the Focals bring about a great balance of audiophile traits and musicality. I truly do not understand why Focal doesn't get more talk. They are super efficient, easy to drive, adjustable to fit the room, musical and my wife loves the look. I also love their adjustability for my room and the driver integration is perfection. Now with 500 or so hours on them, the tweeter is pure buttery smooth, but with all the detail. With the Devialet 400 on the Scala V2's, I just smile every time I sit down to listen.

In Europe the Utopia series is seen as an absolute icon in high-end. If this is not the case in the US there is some missionary work to be done for you Mike!

Smiling when listening. Isn't that what its all about?

Originally Posted by mep

Could it be as simple as the fact that even their most expensive offerings are made from MDF?

Can you tell that by looking at the outside? Because I think the finish is immaculate and the sound is great. What is the value of the material underneath the skin?

Originally Posted by MDP

CD, not all Berilyum tweeters are hot. Revels are smooth as silk. And the new Focals are heard to be much smoother.
The B&W's diamond tweeter is good also, but still a little hot for my ears. But I'm sure that can be system dependant.

I know that is what they say about the Revel Be. That is why I want to hear yours Mark!
But next to the fact that the Revel berylliums are supposedly (I have to say since I have never heard the Revel's but I do believe it is true) smoother than the Focal berylliums I think the the hot tweeter reputation for Focal is still coming from the previous titanium generation. A very revealing tweeter which I truly still like but seen by many as very harsh and hot and especially in the Wilson Audio speakers trimmed on the bright side.
If you think the current B&W Diamond series is too hot you probably like the previous D range. Also diamond tweeters but trimmed in the old B&W 'audiophile' way of sound.
Personally I stepped in when they became Diamond because I am really into the detail. Right now, having the Diamonds for almost 4 years, I miss a lot of detail in most other speakers.
I choose my speaker on the high/mid. The bass should be good too but here we can change balance by acoustic materials, subwoofers, DSP's and now stuff like Devialet's SAM or Linn's Spave Optimisation but with the high-mid it is what it is.
And to go back to the Focal's I have to say I just love their balance.

Originally Posted by Glareskin

Originally Posted by mep
Could it be as simple as the fact that even their most expensive offerings are made from MDF?

Can you tell that by looking at the outside? Because I think the finish is immaculate and the sound is great. What is the value of the material underneath the skin?

Of course you can't tell that by looking at the outside anymore more than you can look at a Wilson speaker from the outside and tell it was made from some alphabet soup of different composite materials. I never said the finish on Focal speakers isn't top notch because that wasn't the point. Many of the top brands of audio speakers that compete in the stratosphere of pricing don't use MDF. Alon Wolf is on record as saying it's terrible sounding even compared to Baltic birch plywood and you can't keep screws tight in it. Both YG and Magico are using aluminum. Wilson and Rockport are using non-wood based materials.

Look, Mike asked why Focal wasn't getting the attention he felt they deserved in the U.S. marketplace and I offered up the MDF enclosures as one possible reason. I'm not trying to proclaim that MDF enclosures can't sound just dandy. If you are going to spend at least $50K on a pair of speakers, some audiophiles might question why they should be buying a pair of speakers that are made from common garden variety MDF (which the majority of speakers in the marketplace are made of) and not be buying something 'special' from one of the herd brands that is made from aluminum, composite materials, or resin.

Mike brought up the tweeter and he may have a point there as well. There are people on other forums who claim they can hear a Focal tweeter ring like they can hear their telephone ring. One guy who doesn't own Wilson speakers said that all Wilson owners should demand that Wilson upgrade their speakers with the new soft dome tweeter they are now using because of how badly the Focal tweeter rings. Of course this pissed off lots of the Wilson owners on the forum who have very expensive Wilson speakers with the Focal tweeter. The point here is that there is some amount of negative buzz in audiophile land about Focal tweeters.

Is Alon Wolff an engineer? Is his word final? I seem to recall someone with his M Projects none to happy right now and a number of other stories. The use of MDF in the manner they use it works beautifully and typical left brain audiophile nonsense. The tweeter is also buttery smooth after 350 hours or so.


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Originally Posted by Mike

Is Alon Wolff an engineer? Is the lead designer at Focal an engineer? The use of MDF in the manner they use it works beautifully. Any comments to the contrary are unfounded. The tweeter is also buttery smooth after 350 hours or so.


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Mike-You were looking for reasons, I offered up one. I'm not picking sides, just offering up commentary. Maybe Wilson, YG, Rockport, and Magico have wasted time and money explaining why they use the materials they do to build their speakers and the average audiophile has no idea what their speakers of made from when they plunk down their large green or they do know what their speakers are made from and simply don't care.

Originally Posted by Bodhi

Mike, that owner needs a good slapping!!

I would give my left you know what for those. Can you imagine those with my XS amps? OMG!


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Originally Posted by Mike

I would give my left you know what for those. Can you imagine those with my XS amps? OMG!


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If you are talking about Ian, he appears to have some other issues in his room that aren't related to his speakers that are causing his system to sound less than optimum. Ian has been getting a steady stream of advice on what he needs to do electrically in order to support his system and make it sound better. I hope he chases down the source of his issues and gets the SQ he deserves and paid for.

Originally Posted by mep

Mike-You were looking for reasons, I offered up one. I'm not picking sides, just offering up commentary. Maybe Wilson, YG, Rockport, and Magico have wasted time and money explaining why they use the materials they do to build their speakers and the average audiophile has no idea what their speakers of made from when they plunk down their large green or they do know what their speakers are made from and simply don't care.

I don't believe for a minute they aren't as popular due to material. They have a technical resonance reason for using the materials they do - and it works. My guess is that they just aren't as well reviewed. They don't get the press they deserve. And let's not forget, Focal is one of the few companies out there that build their own drivers and crossovers. That's no small feat of engineering.


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Originally Posted by mep

If you are talking about Ian, he appears to have some other issues in his room that aren't related to his speakers that are causing his system to sound less than optimum. Ian has been getting a steady stream of advice on what he needs to do electrically in order to support his system and make it sound better. I hope he chases down the source of his issues and gets the SQ he deserves and paid for.

Others - including his dealer - have heard his system and say it sounds amazing. The power wasn't an issue with his S5's. The things Ian is saying about certain instruments not sounding "the way they should" leads me to believe the left brain audiophile path he's on, just might be the wrong one. The left brains in this hobby believe if it measure well, uses state of the art materials and is built tighter than a nuclear submarine, than it must sound good for everyone, right? Wrong. VTSkier (Jon) had a great post about this very thing. He told Ian "just because some people love the M Projects doesn't mean you will." For example, a case in point, I don't see many in the Shindo crowd ever switching to this type of speaker. But, we could be totally wrong and it might just be something related to power.

And let me reiterate, I would LOVE to own the M Projects.

Ian is a great guy. He's been to my house and we've enjoyed many discussions. He has an amazing passion for this hobby. I hope he finds the sound he wants.


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Originally Posted by Mike

I don't believe for a minute they aren't as popular due to material. They have a technical resonance reason for using the materials they do - and it works. My guess is that they just aren't as well reviewed. They don't get the press they deserve. And let's not forget, Focal is one of the few companies out there that build their own drivers and crossovers. That's no small feat of engineering.


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Mike-you may well be right in your opinion for why Focal isn't getting their just due in the U.S.

Originally Posted by mep

Of course you can't tell that by looking at the outside anymore more than you can look at a Wilson speaker from the outside and tell it was made from some alphabet soup of different composite materials. I never said the finish on Focal speakers isn't top notch because that wasn't the point. Many of the top brands of audio speakers that compete in the stratosphere of pricing don't use MDF. Alon Wolf is on record as saying it's terrible sounding even compared to Baltic birch plywood and you can't keep screws tight in it. Both YG and Magico are using aluminum. Wilson and Rockport are using non-wood based materials.

Look, Mike asked why Focal wasn't getting the attention he felt they deserved in the U.S. marketplace and I offered up the MDF enclosures as one possible reason. I'm not trying to proclaim that MDF enclosures can't sound just dandy. If you are going to spend at least $50K on a pair of speakers, some audiophiles might question why they should be buying a pair of speakers that are made from common garden variety MDF (which the majority of speakers in the marketplace are made of) and not be buying something 'special' from one of the herd brands that is made from aluminum, composite materials, or resin.

Mike brought up the tweeter and he may have a point there as well. There are people on other forums who claim they can hear a Focal tweeter ring like they can hear their telephone ring. One guy who doesn't own Wilson speakers said that all Wilson owners should demand that Wilson upgrade their speakers with the new soft dome tweeter they are now using because of how badly the Focal tweeter rings. Of course this pissed off lots of the Wilson owners on the forum who have very expensive Wilson speakers with the Focal tweeter. The point here is that there is some amount of negative buzz in audiophile land about Focal tweeters.

I know what you said and why you said it. But that is excatly why I oppose to it. Maybe it is just my approach but I like this high-end audio world because of:

1 The sound quality. I just like to listen to music and if the reproduction is sounding great that is a big extra in the experience. Since it is so darn expensive and visible in the living room (I don't have the luxury of my own listening room although I have to admit we do have a small disco for my teenage kids in the back of the garden) it should be:

Good looking.
Now I also have to admit that during my endless quest of improvement I became very interested in the technology and I admire some designs and technologies. So yes technology is a -remote- third.

3 Technology.
But frankly, if 1 and 2 are ok number 3 is just a theory. I don't care what Alon Wolff of David Wilson or any other guru say. I am the only judge of good or not good.

Originally Posted by Glareskin

I don't care what Alon Wolff of David Wilson or any other guru say. I am the only judge of good or not good.

Bingo! I'd love to explore this more in another thread and discuss the cultural differences between audiophiles here and the ones in Europe. Speaking in general terms of course.

I wanted to also ask you about T+A. I am in love with the sound and features of my new PDP 3000 HV from T+A and the build quality is second to none (right up there with Accuphase IMO). But, over here, the brand, once again, gets no love. Correct me if I'm wrong, but T+A is very very popular in Europe?






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Originally Posted by Mike

I would give my left you know what for those. Can you imagine those with my XS amps? OMG!

But you sold your S5s saying they were clinical, sterile, etc. despite running them on tubes. By all accounts the M Projects are even moreso.

Color me puzzled

Originally Posted by CDLehner

That's what I've always heard too. They are a particular target, of Dynaudio guys. I seem to recall the words "running from the room" bandied about, lol.

But yeah...BE and Diamond tweeters; they've got to be expected, to be hot as hell. If you tell me they smooth out...I might have to start thinking about Diablos again; because I'm with Jax. I've always thought they looked, sexy as hell.

Nice Mike!

Particularly funny now that Dave Wilson has figured out his speakers were too bright with inverted titanium Focal tweets- which most of us old Dyn guys knew sounded wrong for years

Originally Posted by KeithR

But you sold your S5s saying they were clinical, sterile, etc. despite running them on tubes. By all accounts the M Projects are even moreso.

Color me puzzled

Keith - I would make sure I had the right amps for the M's. I truthfully didn't with the S5's. I've heard with S5's with the big Vitus amps and Holy S* - AWESOME! I heard this entire Ray Charles Genius Loves Company SACD and it was off the charts real. I've also heard the S5's now with Pass and again, excellent. This time: Pass or Vitus only.

Mike

Originally Posted by KeithR

Particularly funny now that Dave Wilson has figured out his speakers were too bright with inverted titanium Focal tweets- which most of us old Dyn guys knew sounded wrong for years

The DynAudio C2 Platinums might just be the best all around DynAudio speaker I've heard. Really excellent for most rooms too.

I read from one speaker manufacture...can't remember who right now...that there are different grades of MDF. That you can't just assume, all MDF...is like what you see, at the local Home Depot.

Originally Posted by Glareskin

I am the only judge of good or not good.

Perhaps you should have caveated that statement by saying when it comes to spending your money on audio gear, you are the only judge of good or not good. There are tons of people who are making judgments on audio gear every day.

Originally Posted by Mike

Keith - I would make sure I had the right amps for the M's. I truthfully didn't with the S5's. I've heard with S5's with the big Vitus amps and Holy S* - AWESOME! I heard this entire Ray Charles Genius Loves Company SACD and it was off the charts real. I've also heard the S5's now with Pass and again, excellent. This time: Pass or Vitus only.

Mike

I can't imagine the amps would make that big of a difference considering the gear you had. Room, maybe.

After having yet another in-home extended demo (this time with YGs), I feel its the only way to properly evaluate a speaker. We can always have a nice listening session somewhere else- but the flaws never pop out until at home after several days. And first impressions aren't always the correct ones (as I'm finding out now).

Anyways, the Strads and Magicos are so opposite in philosophy/sound, I find it hard to think you'd ever like a Magico. You might just be chasing a unicorn...if you read your comments on that long Alexia WBF thread (I read them recently), I think you should keep the faith

GL with the Scalas.

Originally Posted by KeithR

Particularly funny now that Dave Wilson has figured out his speakers were too bright with inverted titanium Focal tweets- which most of us old Dyn guys knew sounded wrong for years

Or maybe you old Dyn guys were wrong. The original Utopia range with inverse titanium dome as well as the Electra range sounded pretty sweet provided the right (best tube) amp was connected.
Yes the tweeter could easily get bright but on the flip side gave a wonderful amount of detail.

Originally Posted by mep

Perhaps you should have caveated that statement by saying when it comes to spending your money on audio gear, you are the only judge of good or not good. There are tons of people who are making judgments on audio gear every day.

I don't think we need to spell out everything that is obvious. FYI I would advise you to judge yourself too. It makes more sense than following the marketing statements from Alon Wolff or Dave Wilson.

Originally Posted by Mike

Bingo! I'd love to explore this more in another thread and discuss the cultural differences between audiophiles here and the ones in Europe. Speaking in general terms of course.

Sure! I am glad if I can give you some insights. Of course I am just one guy coming from one country. We'd definitely need input from other Europeans. It would be good if you could travel to Munich next month. That is where you get an impression of European high-end culture.

I wanted to also ask you about T+A. I am in love with the sound and features of my new PDP 3000 HV from T+A and the build quality is second to none (right up there with Accuphase IMO). But, over here, the brand, once again, gets no love. Correct me if I'm wrong, but T+A is very very popular in Europe?

Yes I think it is very popular. I don't have any sales figures but I think they are doing fine.
They used to be famous for the continuation of the Braun design:


As you say, great sound and build to last forever.
Than they entered high-end audio with the introduction of this series:

And now with the High Voltage series I think they have made it to the top.

Great post Hans. I have read many great reviews on the T+A High Voltage series. I would love a chance to hear them matched with my Revels.

Originally Posted by MDP

Great post Hans. I have read many great reviews on the T+A High Voltage series. I would love a chance to hear them matched with my Revels.

I would say that should be easy Mark. Mike is T+A dealer. I can imagine he would organize a session in your house with some T+A gear, letting the RUS 2 grow to its full strength!
It is gorgeous equipment. Even from the back side:

Hans. Mark should hear this stack on his Salon 2's. I can make it happen.




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Originally Posted by Mike

Hans. Mark should hear this stack on his Salon 2's. I can make it happen.




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Something is telling me that is going to be a heavenly sound!

Originally Posted by Glareskin

Something is telling me that is going to be a heavenly sound!

Originally Posted by Mike

Hans. Mark should hear this stack on his Salon 2's. I can make it happen.




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Oh...oh!