Thread: Esoteric XD Series

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Originally Posted by Rnrmf

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Great review!! Well you know my thoughts. They align with the reviewer.


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Originally Posted by apdoc2004

Mike,
The reviewer, Wojciech Pacuła, is one of my favorites. I check out his website on a regular basis. He is very forthright in his reviews and I have found his impressions to align perfectly with mine on a few components I have owned over the years.

That’s cool. I found this paragraph very interesting as I found the same thing. I settled on 4fs. I just went back to native and yup, I think I prefer 4fs. 8fs was a little too much of a good thing for my ears. I’ll try 16fs as Wojciech suggests since I really never did.

“The Esoteric player offers user digital filters to choose from as well as a choice of the type of upsampling. I listened to it for a long time with the PCM signal upsampled to DSD, but I gave it up. Converting PCM to DSD in this case results in a warmer, darker sound, which, however, does not have the dynamics of the original, nor its resolution. So in the end I listened to music with PCM max upsampling (16 fs). For PCM I chose M3 filter and for DSD the FLT2 one.”

I run my Grandioso transport at 88.2 upsampling when playing CD's....dispensed with any experimentation on that, just accept it for what it is. Obviously, when playing SACD's it's native DSD.

Originally Posted by bizuras

Can anyone tell something about the differences in SQ between K03 XD and K01 XD, especially is the K01 XD much better or is it rather marginal.
Can stretch both, but saving some money is also fine.

Bought last year already a K1, but the seller turned out to be a scammer (through Hifi Shark, so beware). Luckily, in the end I got all my money back, thanks to my lawyer.

Thanks

So much of that going on with the used market right now. It’s really annoying.

The historically speaking there wasn’t always a major difference between the K1 and K3. But with the XD series, there is a significant difference between the K-01XD and K-03XD. I believe the K-01XD carries triple the number of delta-sigma chips over the K-03XD. Sonically, there is greater layering and a smoother presentation with the K-01XD. That being said, the K-03XD is a super performer at $14k and it’s the product that got me hooked.


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Originally Posted by Mike

That’s cool. I found this paragraph very interesting as I found the same thing. I settled on 4fs. I just went back to native and yup, I think I prefer 4fs. 8fs was a little too much of a good thing for my ears. I’ll try 16fs as Wojciech suggests since I really never did.

“The Esoteric player offers user digital filters to choose from as well as a choice of the type of upsampling. I listened to it for a long time with the PCM signal upsampled to DSD, but I gave it up. Converting PCM to DSD in this case results in a warmer, darker sound, which, however, does not have the dynamics of the original, nor its resolution. So in the end I listened to music with PCM max upsampling (16 fs). For PCM I chose M3 filter and for DSD the FLT2 one.”

Thanks a lot Mike. I'll have to try the oversampling and filters with the N-01XD.

As of now I find the sound of the N-01XD without oversampling (streaming from a Synology NAS and using the Esoteric app) + Cybershaft OP21A connected by RCA cables to the Devialet is truly excellent but currently still a bit being what I am getting streaming using Raat from the Mojo Audio EVO linux music server to the Devialet, but I suspect that this result may be impacted by the early burn-in of the Esoteric and by the mid range RCA cables I am currently using. I'll report again after my Chord Sarum T RCA cables are in place some time in February. I am currently using a Sigma V1 clock cable btwn the Cybershaft and the Esoteric and an Omega may be another way to improve.

Ideally I'd like to use Roon to stream from the Mojo Audio EVO through ethernet via the Melco S10 to the Esoteric but that will have to wait until the Roon certification of the Esoteric. I suspect that may be the best of both worlds in the end.

I was hoping to be able to stream from the Mojo in USB to the Esoteric also, but I haven't been able to find linux drivers for the Esoteric USB protocol.

Cheers,
Bernard

Originally Posted by bernardl

Thanks a lot Mike. I'll have to try the oversampling and filters with the N-01XD.

As of now I find the sound of the N-01XD without oversampling (streaming from a Synology NAS and using the Esoteric app) + Cybershaft OP21A connected by RCA cables to the Devialet is truly excellent but currently still a bit being what I am getting streaming using Raat from the Mojo Audio EVO linux music server to the Devialet, but I suspect that this result may be impacted by the early burn-in of the Esoteric and by the mid range RCA cables I am currently using. I'll report again after my Chord Sarum T RCA cables are in place some time in February. I am currently using a Sigma V1 clock cable btwn the Cybershaft and the Esoteric and an Omega may be another way to improve.

Ideally I'd like to use Roon to stream from the Mojo Audio EVO through ethernet via the Melco S10 to the Esoteric but that will have to wait until the Roon certification of the Esoteric. I suspect that may be the best of both worlds in the end.

I was hoping to be able to stream from the Mojo in USB to the Esoteric also, but I haven't been able to find linux drivers for the Esoteric USB protocol.

Cheers,
Bernard

I’m still playing with the filters, but 4fs is my fave so far. I’m also anxiously waiting for Roon certification too. Even though I hate the bugginess of Roon and realize it may not be sonically the best, it will be the best option for the N-01XD. For now, I’m using the Lumin app and it’s running great.


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Originally Posted by bizuras

Thanks Mike, now you are not saving me any money.

You’ll thank me later.


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Originally Posted by bizuras

Hello Mike,

Although the K03XD is already excellent, there is still a big gap between the SQ of K03XD and K1X, fully expected, as the latter is also in another league pricewise.
Where do you place the K01XD regarding the SQ; closer to K03XD or closer to K1X. Thanks.

This will sound like a PC answer, but truly in between. If pressed, I would say closer to the K1X. In years past, the K-03 versions were quite close to the K-01 versions. With XD, that’s not the case. K-01XD is really a nice step up. HOWEVER, the K-03XD at $9000 less is really an incredible performer and if you never hear the K-01XD directly against it, ignorance will be bliss!


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Originally Posted by Mike

That’s cool. I found this paragraph very interesting as I found the same thing. I settled on 4fs. I just went back to native and yup, I think I prefer 4fs. 8fs was a little too much of a good thing for my ears. I’ll try 16fs as Wojciech suggests since I really never did.

“The Esoteric player offers user digital filters to choose from as well as a choice of the type of upsampling. I listened to it for a long time with the PCM signal upsampled to DSD, but I gave it up. Converting PCM to DSD in this case results in a warmer, darker sound, which, however, does not have the dynamics of the original, nor its resolution. So in the end I listened to music with PCM max upsampling (16 fs). For PCM I chose M3 filter and for DSD the FLT2 one.”

I’ve lived with this setting for a month. I’m back to my 4fs/M1 filter. I left DSD at FLT2.

Much happier with my settings.


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Originally Posted by bernardl

With the N-01XD I think I probably prefer 4fs/M2 filter in my environment.

It feels a bit more musical.

Either way the sound isn’t as defined/transparent as what I am getting streaming directly from the Mojo Deja Vu Evo through the Melco S10 to the Devialet, but using 4fs/M2 filter I get a more organic sound, a bit like playing vinyl instead of digital.

It’s significantly nicer with average records, including pretty much all pop/rock/country. Still highly defined but without any harshness.

With great recordings nothing seems to beat the internal dac of the Devialet it would seem.

For dsd files, in particular those from HDTT, I think I prefer the Esoteric, which makes sense since it supports DSD256 natively which the Devialet unfortunately doesn’t.

Cheers,
Bernard

I didn't care for the M2 filter when I briefly tried it, but I will give it another shot.

I completely agree with you about the "vinyl sound" from the N-01xd. It really is true. It is the only dac I've ever owned that doesn't sound like digital at all.

What power cord are you using on it? I'm thinking I need to up my game on the PC feeding this beast.

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

I didn't care for the M2 filter when I briefly tried it, but I will give it another shot.

I completely agree with you about the "vinyl sound" from the N-01xd. It really is true. It is the only dac I've ever owned that doesn't sound like digital at all.

What power cord are you using on it? I'm thinking I need to up my game on the PC feeding this beast.

Hi Marc,

Currently the power cord connecting the N-01XD to the Shunyata Everest is a Shunyata Sigma V1.

I may replace it by a Sigma V2 at a later stage. An Omega is tempting too, but I guess that replacing my Sigma V1 clock cable (connecting the N-01XD to the Cybershaft OP21A) by an Omega clock cable may result in higher benefits at a lower overall cost.

Cheers,
Bernard

Originally Posted by bernardl

Hi Marc,

Currently the power cord connecting the N-01XD to the Shunyata Everest is a Shunyata Sigma V1.

I may replace it by a Sigma V2 at a later stage. An Omega is tempting too, but I guess that replacing my Sigma V1 clock cable (connecting the N-01XD to the Cybershaft OP21A) by an Omega clock cable may result in higher benefits at a lower overall cost.

Cheers,
Bernard

Nice! I have a similar, yet slightly lower end set up.

I have the G-02x clock with a Sigma v1 clock cable, and a Denali 6000s v2 fed by the Sigma v1, and an older Alpha HC going to the N-01xd.

I have Alpha NR v2 cords feeding my amps (straight to the wall) and preamp (from Denali).

I really love what the NR v2 cords did for my system, and will likely get alpha or Sigma for the N-01xd.

It will take a while, because I just bought a new rack and a bunch of isolation stuff.

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Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

Nice! I have a similar, yet slightly lower end set up.

I have the G-02x clock with a Sigma v1 clock cable, and a Denali 6000s v2 fed by the Sigma v1, and an older Alpha HC going to the N-01xd.

I have Alpha NR v2 cords feeding my amps (straight to the wall) and preamp (from Denali).

I really love what the NR v2 cords did for my system, and will likely get alpha or Sigma for the N-01xd.

It will take a while, because I just bought a new rack and a bunch of isolation stuff.

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Very similar indeed. :-)

I got an Omega XC to connect the Everest to the wall, and the also Sigma V2 from Everest to the amps. This works very well indeed!

There is no end to this game, so playing it slow is certainly the right thing to do. :-)

Cheers,
Bernard

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

Nice! I have a similar, yet slightly lower end set up.

I have the G-02x clock with a Sigma v1 clock cable, and a Denali 6000s v2 fed by the Sigma v1, and an older Alpha HC going to the N-01xd.

I have Alpha NR v2 cords feeding my amps (straight to the wall) and preamp (from Denali).

I really love what the NR v2 cords did for my system, and will likely get alpha or Sigma for the N-01xd.

It will take a while, because I just bought a new rack and a bunch of isolation stuff.

Crikey. I'm almost on the same ship sailing on the same sea as you!
N-01
G-02X
Sigma Clock-50 v1
Denali 6000 v1

Originally Posted by GSOphile

Bernard, after playing around a bit more, I agree with you. I like M2 better now, sacrifices ultimate detail for more organic musicality - a good trade to my ears. Thank you.

Glad to hear that!

Cheers,
Bernard

Originally Posted by Rnrmf

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I read the review in detail, and they compared the K-01XD to DCS Vivaldi in addition to their flagship Ayon, and if I am not wrong they did A/B testing with Ideon absolute DAC. Ideon Absolute was reviewed in TAS, and it was so good, he bought it. The Ideon costs ~ 35K. If K-01XD is in that league, then esoteric should be one hell of a deal among these elite group of DACs. Too bad, TAS or Stereophile or other big audiophile websites, don`t review much of luxman or esoteric or audio note gears. We read and discuss in the forums and see how people love them. There is something fishy among reviewers, I wonder sometimes. Just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by RaChiK

I read the review in detail, and they compared the K-01XD to DCS Vivaldi in addition to their flagship Ayon, and if I am not wrong they did A/B testing with Ideon absolute DAC. Ideon Absolute was reviewed in TAS, and it was so good, he bought it. The Ideon costs ~ 35K. If K-01XD is in that league, then esoteric should be one hell of a deal among these elite group of DACs. Too bad, TAS or Stereophile or other big audiophile websites, don`t review much of luxman or esoteric or audio note gears. We read and discuss in the forums and see how people love them. There is something fishy among reviewers, I wonder sometimes. Just my 2 cents.

My publications have a policy to focus their reviews on the brands that advertise in the publication. It doesn't mean that any advertiser will get a great review, but it often means that you will not get a review at all if you don't support the publication.

Considering that they probably don't have enough bandwidth/paper volume to cover stuff not supporting them anyway, it's not unreasonable.

Cheers,
Bernard

Originally Posted by RaChiK

I read the review in detail, and they compared the K-01XD to DCS Vivaldi in addition to their flagship Ayon, and if I am not wrong they did A/B testing with Ideon absolute DAC. Ideon Absolute was reviewed in TAS, and it was so good, he bought it. The Ideon costs ~ 35K. If K-01XD is in that league, then esoteric should be one hell of a deal among these elite group of DACs. Too bad, TAS or Stereophile or other big audiophile websites, don`t review much of luxman or esoteric or audio note gears. We read and discuss in the forums and see how people love them. There is something fishy among reviewers, I wonder sometimes. Just my 2 cents.

I expect (or at least hope) to see some Esoteric reviews coming soon. I would love to see a TAS/Stereophile review of this new amazing XD series, but as I’ve told many manufacturers, they should focus on the smaller reviewers too. There are lots of great, smaller reviewers out there. Roy Gregory is one example. Jeff Fritz is another.

For now, we have some great real user feedback. I posted my thoughts around my own Esoteric Grandioso stack on another thread. To my ears, MSB and Esoteric are both world class and which one you pick depends on your preferences and system synergy.

Originally Posted by bernardl

My publications have a policy to focus their reviews on the brands that advertise in the publication. It doesn't mean that any advertiser will get a great review, but it often means that you will not get a review at all if you don't support the publication.

Considering that they probably don't have enough bandwidth/paper volume to cover stuff not supporting them anyway, it's not unreasonable.

Cheers,
Bernard

I understand and respect that. To run and maintain major publications, needs all help. But, from consumer stand point of view, we do expect some degree of fair coverage of all quality gears, regardless. Like esoteric or luxman, for example: people who buy them, rave about them and they don't get mentioned in major reviews. A bit of disconnect, I think. Again, not a big deal, but I think, they need to get credit when deserved.

Originally Posted by Mike

I expect (or at least hope) to see some Esoteric reviews coming soon...

I wouldn't be holding my breath on that. We still haven't seen a review on the D1X despite it being released two years ago.

For people using XLR analogue out, are you guys using XLR 2 or XLR 3 hot ?. Any difference ?

Originally Posted by RaChiK

For people using XLR analogue out, are you guys using XLR 2 or XLR 3 hot ?. Any difference ?

You need to find out what your preamp requires. Most US made amps are pin2, and many Japanese brands are pin3. Look up your specific preamp.

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Since VAC is using pin 2 hot, you may set to use pin 2 hot as a start, unless you know the album you're playing was recorded with phase inverted.

Your Luxman defaults to pin 3 hot. To be consistent, you may use its phase invert function.

I have just set it back to pin 2 hot. Thanks.
I am using 8 fs/M1 with excellent clarity.

Originally Posted by bizuras

Well, I have now the K01XD in my system. New and cold out of the box the presentation is already very nice and pleasant.
I noted lots of detail and it's still very smooth, transparency, solid LF and delicate HF.
First class finish also as usual with Esoteric.

I keep smiling all the time, so thanks Mike.

Congrats!!


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Originally Posted by bizuras

Well, I have now the K01XD in my system. New and cold out of the box the presentation is already very nice and pleasant.
I noted lots of detail and it's still very smooth, transparency, solid LF and delicate HF.
First class finish also as usual with Esoteric.

I keep smiling all the time, so thanks Mike.

Congratulations! Esoteric’s new conversion architecture sounds terrific. And, the transport system is fantastic. A world class performer. Enjoy!

I could watch the disc tray open/close all day, it's a work of art.

Originally Posted by Polleke

Hi guys,
I was wondering if someone could give some suggestions about my K03XD cdp or share their experiences.
A while ago I replaced my Wadia 381i with this Esoteric K03XD. Although there's an considerable improvement in transparency and dynamics/speed, I'm missing some smoothness and warmth. The Wadia had a nice velvety sound, but it was defenitely lacking the detailed sound in the higher frequencies and I certainly could not go back. Some recordings (I only play Redbook) sound absolutely breathtaking on the Esoteric, but on others the sound could have been a bit fuller in the midrange to my taste and less fatigueing.
I have an Audio Research Ref5SE tube preamp, Pass 250.8 poweramp (playing in classA all the time) and Marten DjangoXL speakers.
Would it be worth it investing in a DAC (Aqua La Scala, Bricasti, Mola Mola, Holo Audio ...) or would I than loose the transparency of the inboard Dac?
Or would investing in an external clock (Esoteric G02x, Mutec Ref10 SE120, Cybershaft ...) be advisable? What would the effect on the sound be?
I've tried different upsampling and filter settings, but find that I loose to much of the transparency when I use a slightly smoother setting.

I have the N-01XD, which similar to K-01XD, but with a network bridge built in and no transport. Somewhat different DAC implementation than the K-01XD.

I couldn’t be happier with N-01XD, and it’s surely my endgame DAC, until / unless it breaks down. So perhaps upgrade to K-01XD if you dig Esoteric sound? And if the built in transport is a must. Having said this, we are all different people with different preferences. No one-size-fits-all. No absolutes in audio, just preferences.

Originally Posted by GSOphile

I have a K-01XD driving a Diablo 300/Magico S3 MkIIs and have experienced some of the challenges you describe with different CDs. For me it has been difficult to arrive at a really good compromise filter/upsampling setting that brings out the positive attributes of favorite recordings without being fatiguing. My quest was complicated somewhat when I upgraded my power cables/conditioner from AQ to Shunyata. At this point my ears are pretty happy with the M2/4Fs PCM setting. Good recordings from 50+ years ago shine, but, that said, the DAC in this machine will still not put lipstick on a pig (nor do I expect it to).
Like you, I'd like details on what we should expect from the addition of a good external clock to an Esoteric XD player.

IMHO 99% of the time, fatigue is caused by the room, not the gear. Although the gear can certainly make it worse. Look at the first reflection points on all your walls and ceiling, try putting something there temporarily to see if it goes away.

I had chased fatigue for years. I finally figured it out myself and my room is well treated now!

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Originally Posted by Polleke

Hi guys,
I was wondering if someone could give some suggestions about my K03XD cdp or share their experiences.
A while ago I replaced my Wadia 381i with this Esoteric K03XD. Although there's an considerable improvement in transparency and dynamics/speed, I'm missing some smoothness and warmth. The Wadia had a nice velvety sound, but it was defenitely lacking the detailed sound in the higher frequencies and I certainly could not go back. Some recordings (I only play Redbook) sound absolutely breathtaking on the Esoteric, but on others the sound could have been a bit fuller in the midrange to my taste and less fatigueing.
I have an Audio Research Ref5SE tube preamp, Pass 250.8 poweramp (playing in classA all the time) and Marten DjangoXL speakers.
Would it be worth it investing in a DAC (Aqua La Scala, Bricasti, Mola Mola, Holo Audio ...) or would I than loose the transparency of the inboard Dac?
Or would investing in an external clock (Esoteric G02x, Mutec Ref10 SE120, Cybershaft ...) be advisable? What would the effect on the sound be?
I've tried different upsampling and filter settings, but find that I loose to much of the transparency when I use a slightly smoother setting.

Clock. I feel that a clock is damn near mandatory for an esoteric dac. It is a huge upgrade.

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Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

Clock. I feel that a clock is damn near mandatory for an esoteric dac. It is a huge upgrade.

The clock cable is also critical. So much so, the clock is almost pointless without a good clock cable.