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June 22, 2013, 10:06 PM #1Super Moderator
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Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Okay, this is the first time I am trying the tone controls. I am not adverse to a little corrections as needed/wanted but I have a little rant. I just noticed there is no zero point on either the treble or bass. It's either -1 or +1. This means I can not do a -1 treble with a 0 (zero/null) bass. This makes no sense to me. What the heck?
I've been trying the -1 treble with a +1 bass and I have to say I like being able to reduce the treble but the Dagostino combo seems so full and bassy that I don't need more bass.Last edited by joeinid; June 22, 2013 at 10:09 PM.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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June 22, 2013, 11:13 PM #2Senior Member
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Hmmm
Are you saying if you want -1 treble it can only be -1 or +1 bass but not zero?
Is this on a read out?
What numbers do the - and + does the bass and treble go to?
Is it adjustable on the unit and the remote?Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
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Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
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June 22, 2013, 11:28 PM #3Super Moderator
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
That's correct. No zero on either treble or bass so if I do a -1 on the treble, the bass has to be -1 or +1.
Via the remote, on or off. No adjustment.
-6 to +6 on tone controls with no zero point.Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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June 22, 2013, 11:30 PM #4Audioshark
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
I've been looking for the manual online to see if it could tell us something. Can't find it.
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June 22, 2013, 11:37 PM #5Senior Member
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
That seems such a basic DOH! error in design with no zero point unless you bypass the tone controls completely. Perhaps an email and phone call to Dag is in order.
How much difference do the tone controls make?
I know when I had my Mac C2300 I invariably preferred the eq off as it intruded into the musicak flow too much.
Personally, depending on the recording I would like flat or maybe +1/2 treble with -2 or 3 bass when the bass overwhelms my room.Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
Cartridges: Lyra Atlas Lambda SL, Lyra Etna SL, Lyra Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
Phono Stage: Phasemation EA-1200, Accuphase C-37,TW Acustik phono
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Preamp: D'Agostino HD, conrad johnson GAT,
Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
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June 22, 2013, 11:37 PM #6Super Moderator
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
I have no issue with tone controls. In fact, I think the Dagostino combo could potentially rescue the TADs from the Shark Tank.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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June 22, 2013, 11:40 PM #7Super Moderator
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
From what I understand each number is 1 db of change. I love being able to -1 or -2 the treble. BUT, I want to leave the bass ALONE! The Dag combo already seems to have more apparent bass so just by changing gear I have more bass and don't need/want any more.
So far the Dag amp and preamp is an outstanding combo. It's giving me a whole different perspective on the music. Big, big sound stage. Full meaty tone. Just wonderful. A great complement to the TADs.Last edited by joeinid; June 22, 2013 at 11:44 PM.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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June 23, 2013, 03:11 AM #8Senior Member
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Joe, sounds like you're in the zone.
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June 23, 2013, 03:15 AM #9Senior Member
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Joe....funnily enough, this came up today at the demo. Dan said no one makes a 13 point selector. He wanted to have +/- 6 6 range for his tone controls to give folks enough flex in shaping the music if so inclined to use the tone controls. But because there is no 13-point switches out there, you cannot have a zero point. He said if you want it at zero, turn off the tone coontrols but of course that does not answer the situation where you want to have either the treble or bass control at zero and the other one at some level of correction! I guess he could have had only +/- 5 and a zero option with his 12 point switch or if there are higher switches (14 or 16 point switches, etc...) he could have used one of those and incorporated a zero point option. You should email him and let him know you are frustrated by this and could he have opted for another switch with higher switch ponts to incorporate a zero point in the range! Seems like a design oversight to me.
What is true is that engaging the tone control made no difference to the resolution or dynamic presentation of the music. We did test the tone control while playing music, i.e., engaging it and turning it off while the music was playing and you could not here it make a difference from that perspctive.
In any case, I thought I would jump in since I literally came from the demo today.
CyrilCyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
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June 23, 2013, 07:13 AM #10Super Moderator
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Originally Posted by bzr
Joe, sounds like you're in the zone.
Kev,
The D'Agostino combo is just outstanding. I am blown away at what I am hearing. There is something special going on between these two pieces, especially on my TADs. Holy cow!
Cyril,
Thank you so much for validating my findings. On some/most of what I play, having a -1 treble for my taste is perfect. BUT, having to add or subtract 1 bass is absurd. I can not tell you how upset I was when I found that out. Okay, I thought, here is probably the perfect antidote to my situation. Tone bypass when not wanted or needed and I could tame the treble a "tad" to my liking and be happy, happy. But, nooooooooooo. I thought I was missing something. This may not a deal breaker, especially since the sound is incredible, but I am surely disappointed.
Originally Posted by cmalak
Last edited by joeinid; June 23, 2013 at 07:16 AM.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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June 23, 2013, 07:33 AM #11Senior Member
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Sure seems like it could have been easily a -5 to +6 with a zero position. It would be hard to say its a deal breaker especially since almost all preamps don't have a tone control at all, but . . .
Jock
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June 23, 2013, 07:39 AM #12Super Moderator
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Jock,
You know as well as I do how incredible this preamp and amp combination sounds. Deal breaker? No. A little frustrating? Yes!
Plus, there seems no way to be able to dim or turn off the light on the dial like you can on the amps. A beacon in the night.
Originally Posted by the professor
Last edited by joeinid; June 23, 2013 at 07:41 AM.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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June 23, 2013, 07:49 AM #13Senior Member
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
I agree 100%.
Why why why . . . Has been a common thought. And then I listen and . . . then the thought "who cares" comes to mind.Jock
If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.
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House: Naim ND555/2PS, Naim 552, Naim 500, Studer A80/Doshi V3, Magico M2s, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Lumina IC/SC, Shunyata Everest and Omega PCs.
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June 23, 2013, 08:33 PM #14Senior Member
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Originally Posted by cmalak
What the tone controls need is quite obviously a separate switch to turn the bass on and off and the treble on and off. Voila. 13 point control with 12 point selectors by using separate on/off switches.Listening Room: McIntosh C46, MEN220, MCD500, MR78-Modafferi modified, MPI4, MC602 (2), Pass Labs XVR1 (three-way), tri-amplified Infinity IRS Series V, TailTwister T2X rotator, AtlasSound FMA Rack, dedicated electrical sub-panel, NO TV!
Living Room: McIntosh C28, MC2300, Revox B226, Tascam CD355, Thorens TD125 MKII w/vacuum platter, Rabco SL-8E, Grace F9-E, McIntosh ML-2C (2) & ML-1C (4) stacked, MQ-107, SAE 2800, Nakamichi Dragon, Tandberg 64X, JL Audio f113 (2), NO TV!
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June 23, 2013, 08:44 PM #15Senior Member
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
true
and that might be able to be done from reprogramming the controls. at least wishful thinking.Jock
If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.
---------
House: Naim ND555/2PS, Naim 552, Naim 500, Studer A80/Doshi V3, Magico M2s, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Lumina IC/SC, Shunyata Everest and Omega PCs.
Workshop: Naim ND555/2 PS, VAC Master Pre, VAC Sig 200iQ, Border Patrol pre/power, Avant Garde Duo Mezzo XD, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Shunyata IC/SC, Shunyata Typhon QR/Triton V3/Sigma PCs.
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June 23, 2013, 08:54 PM #16Super Moderator
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
I'll have to see if any of these are options. Something I'm trying now is -2 treble and -1 bass on those recordings I feel need it and it seems like a fair compromise. -1 treble and+1 bass can work very well also
When the Dagostino preamp and amp are fully warmed up they sound absolutely incredible. My TADs have NEVER sounded better. It's just an amazing combo. I don't know how or why but the synergy is through the roof.Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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June 23, 2013, 09:18 PM #17Senior Member
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
I hear a little voice in the background saying, "design flaw."
Listening Room: McIntosh C46, MEN220, MCD500, MR78-Modafferi modified, MPI4, MC602 (2), Pass Labs XVR1 (three-way), tri-amplified Infinity IRS Series V, TailTwister T2X rotator, AtlasSound FMA Rack, dedicated electrical sub-panel, NO TV!
Living Room: McIntosh C28, MC2300, Revox B226, Tascam CD355, Thorens TD125 MKII w/vacuum platter, Rabco SL-8E, Grace F9-E, McIntosh ML-2C (2) & ML-1C (4) stacked, MQ-107, SAE 2800, Nakamichi Dragon, Tandberg 64X, JL Audio f113 (2), NO TV!
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June 23, 2013, 09:31 PM #18Super Moderator
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Either a design flaw or oversight, it should be remedied. That was one of the features I was looking forward to having and making use of.
Originally Posted by GaryProtein
Last edited by joeinid; June 23, 2013 at 09:45 PM.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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June 23, 2013, 09:42 PM #19Senior Member
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Joe...I think it's worth enquiring with Dan via email or phone call whether there can be a remedy (either Gary's suggestion) or putting in another switch that has more than 12 positions. You can explain to him specifically what combos you think you want but can't achieve with the current design and see what he says. He seems to be very approachable and frankly for $32K for the pre, I think it's not unreasonable for him to be responsive to customer enquiries/requests. Just my 2c. It's a beautiful product and you should have tons of "pride of onwership' action going on with that preamp. If you can solve this minor annoyance I think you will be super happy with this combo for at least 3 months ( Originally Posted by joeinid
ok...that was mean...). I think you will be happy with this combo (no matter what), for a very long time but hopefully you can get this issue addressed. Good luck.
Cyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system
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June 23, 2013, 09:49 PM #20Super Moderator
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Cyril
The sound of the preamp and amp together is insanely great. I really have no complaints. Only a few months to go.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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June 23, 2013, 10:00 PM #21Senior Member
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
JOE, leave the Dag on neutral and get one of these: Millennia NSEQ-4
Listening Room: McIntosh C46, MEN220, MCD500, MR78-Modafferi modified, MPI4, MC602 (2), Pass Labs XVR1 (three-way), tri-amplified Infinity IRS Series V, TailTwister T2X rotator, AtlasSound FMA Rack, dedicated electrical sub-panel, NO TV!
Living Room: McIntosh C28, MC2300, Revox B226, Tascam CD355, Thorens TD125 MKII w/vacuum platter, Rabco SL-8E, Grace F9-E, McIntosh ML-2C (2) & ML-1C (4) stacked, MQ-107, SAE 2800, Nakamichi Dragon, Tandberg 64X, JL Audio f113 (2), NO TV!
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June 23, 2013, 10:22 PM #22Super Moderator
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
That looks awesome. I'll check it out. Any idea how it might compare the the Manley Massive Passive? Originally Posted by GaryProtein
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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June 24, 2013, 03:30 AM #23Senior Member
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Joe, go back to the link and check out all the specs and associated links. This is a fully balanced, class A device. It's about $4500.
Millennia NSEQ-4
Millennia NSEQ-4
Millennia NSEQ-4
NOTE: the above are three different links, they just look the same because of their names.
See the client list and artists who use it. It's an international who's who in performing arts and the recording industry.
Millennia Users
They have a dealer in NYC.Listening Room: McIntosh C46, MEN220, MCD500, MR78-Modafferi modified, MPI4, MC602 (2), Pass Labs XVR1 (three-way), tri-amplified Infinity IRS Series V, TailTwister T2X rotator, AtlasSound FMA Rack, dedicated electrical sub-panel, NO TV!
Living Room: McIntosh C28, MC2300, Revox B226, Tascam CD355, Thorens TD125 MKII w/vacuum platter, Rabco SL-8E, Grace F9-E, McIntosh ML-2C (2) & ML-1C (4) stacked, MQ-107, SAE 2800, Nakamichi Dragon, Tandberg 64X, JL Audio f113 (2), NO TV!
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June 24, 2013, 11:19 AM #24Super Moderator
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Re: Momentum Preamp tone control questions ....
Thank you so much Gary!
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
Good thing Factory Reset worked for you. If it doesn't, an email to Aurender NA/USA will be helpful and likely require being shipped to CA to diagnose and resolve.
N200 stuck in clm