Thread: Momentum M400MxV

I just heard about the upcoming rev of the M400 monoblock amplifiers.

MOMENTUM M400MxV MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIER | Dan Dagostino amplifiers

I was told it will be $10,000 a channel for an upgrade from M400 to M400MxV or $80,000 for a new pair outright.

If this revision is anything like the original Momentum to M400, there goes our bank account as I will jump on it in a heartbeat. ;-)

Thanks,

I would absolutely love the S250 MxV. I don't know the price but it's probably not cheap.

I wonder if they are keeping the M400 + S250 as is, or raising the price by 10 and 20k regardless?

I luv my S250, I wonder what a S250 MxV would be like? not much room left in those chassis

At least Dan D is giving existing owners the option of upgrading, rather than have to buy a brand new amp - Bravo for that

The description makes it sound like it's another massive overhaul like from M300 to M400. Not sure why there's a big black stripe across the front, the design was perfect on the M400. Famous last words, but not sure how the MxV will be that much better than the M400 to justify the $20k upgrade cost

Originally Posted by XV-1

I wonder if they are keeping the M400 + S250 as is, or raising the price by 10 and 20k regardless?

I luv my S250, I wonder what a S250 MxV would be like? not much room left in those chassis

At least Dan D is giving existing owners the option of upgrading, rather than have to buy a brand new amp - Bravo for that

Definately agree with your statement and am looking forward to this upgrade for my stereo as well

As the M400 has been out for a few years now, I am glad to hear the upgrade features trickling down from the much more expensive Relentless series.

Dan’s M400 is on my short list for my future upgrade. Regarding to the black stripe across the front, this may be just a light reflection in the picture. This same black stripe also appears in the existing M400 user manual’s.

My dealer said they are getting in a S250 MxV so hopefully I will be able to compare to my S250.

I was expecting this. I wonder if the process will be the same as with the Momentum 400's. They filled the pipeline with new product before beginning the upgrade process. Last time in lieu of updating my original M300's I went with new M400's since there was a small design change I liked. This time I might just update my units as the exterior remains the same.

Originally Posted by XV-1

My dealer said they are getting in a S250 MxV so hopefully I will be able to compare to my S250.

Please kindly share your comparison with us at your convenience... will be looking forward to it thanks

Originally Posted by jlchen

Regarding to the black stripe across the front, this may be just a light reflection in the picture.

You're right, it's been there since the M300 (maybe an attempt to show curvature?) so it doesn't look like there is any exterior design change.

Just took delivery of our first pair of Dan D'Agostino amplifiers - M400. Definitely will want to upgade to MxV at a later time.

edited

Has anyone done the upgrades on their M400's or S250's?

Originally Posted by XV-1

Has anyone done the upgrades on their M400's or S250's?

I haven't yet. I am waiting to hear the upgrade before pulling the trigger.

Originally Posted by XV-1

Has anyone done the upgrades on their M400's or S250's?

We comitted to the upgrade without hearing it since Dan has always come through for us in the past and we just loved the last upgrade. We have been on the list since mid-November, but have yet to hear form our dealer as to exactly when we need to send our units in.

Thanks.

The local D'Agostino dealer just took away our M400 Momentums to be upgraded to the MxV version.

While it stinks to be without them for 4 weeks (2 weeks ship/back forth, two weeks at D'Agostino to rev them), I think it will take that long for my body to recover from pulling them from the system, moving them out of the house, and boxing them up. ;-)

Anyway, it appears that upgrades are starting to go through the system.

Congratulations. I am still on the fence, but I bet they will sound great.

Patience for the delight of what’s to come. I upgraded my previous Momentum Pre to HD and Power Amp to S250. Both upgrades were stupendous.

Congratulations! Please let us know the sound differences when they come back!

Marc,

I am sitting four weeks to the day since they were picked up to be shipped to D'Agostino and I have yet to get them returned.

Thanks,

If I’d paid that kind of money for something I would be none too happy with that level of service.

Why can’t they organize better and just say, “ok we’re ready for your amp in <1 week, please ship now” and have them turned around in a day or 2?

Then you’re not without very expensive hard-to-substitute gear for very lengthy periods.

Originally Posted by jmusica

If I’d paid that kind of money for something I would be none too happy with that level of service.

Why can’t they organize better and just say, “ok we’re ready for your amp in <1 week, please ship now” and have them turned around in a day or 2?

Then you’re not without very expensive hard-to-substitute gear for very lengthy periods.

In fairness to D'Agostino I was told it would be about 4 weeks (2 weeks at the factory, 1 week shipping to, and 1 week shipping from), so I am not unhappy at this point. Furthermore, I have had issues with the local dealer picking up the equipment from me in the past and sitting on it instead of immediately shipping it, so who knows how long the dealer sat on the units this time (regardless of them promising to ship it out immediately)? D'Agostino can't work on it if they don't get it in a timely fashion.

I do get your meaning, but over many years now I have always been taken care of with honesty and diligence by the D'Agostino team, so I am fine with their effort. Actually, I have nothing but good things to say about all the interactions I have had with them as they are truly professional folks.

Thank you for your thoughts though.

@layne I think you're a more patient person than me!

But yeah, if the 4 weeks includes shipping both ways, that's not nearly as bad. I still would question 2 weeks at the factory, for what is likely at most a couple hours work per unit, plus a couple days burn-in/measurement (unless that bit takes longer).

Guess I shouldn't have given the impression I was impugning their service in general - just questioning the organizing around this process. I may be in a similar position soon for an upgrade on my amp. But I won't do it unless I can be sure I won't be without it that long as I have no back-up component.

I am sure the wait will be worth it. for the upgrade price, you would want Dag to do everything perfectly and in their own good time.

Got mine this week. Took 2 months!

The wait is finally over as today they have arrived.

Originally Posted by laynesaddiction

The wait is finally over as today they have arrived.

I just noticed your Momentum's have a slight difference in industrial design than mine. Both my M400's and Momentum HD have the black covers around the meters. I see on you MV's your is natural aluminum colored.

Congratulations. I am going to enjoy my updated Vivaldi DAC before considering pulling the trigger on the Momentum update.

Originally Posted by ICUToo

We can't wait to hear some details about the new sound?

Well, my wife and I had some time to listen to the upgraded Momentum M400 MxV amps after burning them in hard on/off for a couple of days prior to any critical listening and then sitting down and focusing on what we felt they did to our system. Please note as always, this is what we heard in our system with respect to our tastes towards what we felt changed on our system by swapping out the M400s with the M400 MxV amplifiers.

From a break-in point of view, we found that the major changes prior to settling down to their steady-state sound happened within the first 60 hours (while we did not critically listen in the first 48 hours, we did listen informally during that period) with only minor differences from then on. We did not hear any noticeable changes after about 80 hours of running the units.

What improved:

1. Microdynamics (both the attack and sustain)
2. Ability to hash out complex/flowing passages of multiple genres of music
3. Subtle nuances of vocal reproduction (e.g., the way the singer may breathe, drag air across their vocal cords before or after hitting a note, etc.)
4. Low-end dynamics (We feel there is more oomph in the lower regions (this was very apparent to us with Asian drum tracks)).

If we had to focus on one area that we found the biggest change to the better, it would be what we call the “flow/interaction of the music separate and interconnected among the presentation.” This is slightly different than pure musicality in our mind and MIGHT be what the late Harry Pearson called “continuousness”. An example that we can give as to what we are getting at is a particular strength (in our opinion) of Hendrix’s guitar playing. To our ears, Jimi always seemed to be in control during simple and complex passages and played with a flowing and fluid manner that rarely seemed rushed, difficult, or complicated. In some ways (another analogy), he always seemed to be at the end of a complicated obstacle course after negotiating it with grace and ease, sitting down, breathing normally with no injuries while others are still out there struggling to finish, exhausted, and full of cuts and bruises. If that makes any sense, that is the type “flow/interaction” of feeling we are trying to convey.

Well, the Momentum M400 MxV improves on the original M400 in this area which we find a very compelling benefit.

This upgrade also gave us a feeling of more oomph and power (particularly with the low-end dynamics) even though the power rating stayed the same for the amps. While we are not sure why, it was consistent that we felt there were more horses under the hood even though technically there were not.

The final point we will mention is about as subjective as you can get, so take it or leave it. These new designs are outstandingly voiced to our ears in presenting the pure beauty and magnificence of the music while still being accurate. Some high-end amp designs (to us) may check every audiophile buzzword checkbox but are not very musical (particularly in their “more human than human” attempt at “accuracy”). While we felt the original M400s presented a fully immersed and accurate musical presentation, the new M400 MxV provided an even more accurate presentation without any “Exaggerated accuracy” (as discussed with other designs above) and improved on its wonderful musicality and flow. The sound was exceptionally organic and real to our ears.

We don’t think there were any regressions or negative aspects of this upgrade worth mentioning and to us it was worth the investment and money to move to the new models.

Please note though: While it brings you closer to the sound of their “Relentless” models which we have extensive listening experience with, it is NOT in our opinion a “Baby Relentless”.

This is not a knock on the MxV amps as we love them and will not be getting rid of them any time soon as they are our reference. It just is what it is (sic., if you have the $$$, the Relentless models are superior).

Maybe the “Epic 800” (of which we have not heard) will be the “Baby Relentless”.

In summary: We are very happy with this upgrade.

We would be interested in others’ opinion in what they heard once they are exposed to them.

Thanks,

Anthony

Well I finally decided to send in my M-400’s for the MxV upgrade. My dealer picked up my units this morning and dropped off a Progression amp to fill my needs ‘till the units are returned. I must say the Progression line sounds awfully good.

I have been debating for some time now wether I should pull the string on this update or spend the money on aTaiko server. I became tired of following the never ending development cycle of the Taiko product(s). Server, software, switch, and more. When I am back in Florida I will stop by a give it another audition,. Here’s hoping they have static product by then.

Originally Posted by Marck1973

Hi Jim,

You won’t be disappointed in the improvement having the amplifiers upgraded to the MxV. It is a significant upgrade and in every aspect the amplifiers out perform the original version.

Now you just need to be patient!! They do take a few hundred hours of burn in too.

Rgds
Marc.

Marc
Thanks for your comments Yeah that break in will be a pain, but I bet they’ll sound good throughout.

Jim -

Congrats! Having been a DAG owner, I did pay for upgrades of the Momentum Pre and Amp. Always very pleased with the results. Look forward to your impressions of the MXV upgrades. And, hope you get the amps soon!

Which Progression(s) on loan - stereo or monos?

Originally Posted by Ritmo

Jim -

Congrats! Having been a DAG owner, I did pay for upgrades of the Momentum Pre and Amp. Always very pleased with the results. Look forward to your impressions of the MXV upgrades. And, hope you the amps soon!

Which Progression(s) on loan - stereo or monos?

Mike

They loaned me the stereo version and it sure sounded good. I'll drop a photo when I get a chance.

When the the M-400 upgrade came out I took the opportunity to trade in my silver M300's for a pair of M-400's in black. I also traded in my Momentum preamp in silver for a Black HD. I considered updating rather than replacing those units but I liked the updated industrial design on the M-400 and HD pre rather than just upgrading the units.

Hi Jim - Any updates? Hope they are back from the factory already and you are enjoying the upgrade.

Mike, I checked last Friday and they were in the final stages of testing at D’Agostino after the upgrade. I am guessing they are in transit this week and should be back in my set-up next week. I’ll keep you posted.

Well my amps are back in my set-up after the MxV upgrade. Just running some playlists through them now. Sounds pretty good.IMG_1835.jpg

That's great!

Love the Dags. It's the only amp I've had that my wife actually liked the look of.

Look forward to your impressions Jim!

I have spent more than a few hours over the past several days listening to the updated Momentum M-400 MxV’s as they break-in. Bottom line they have taken what I considered a very fine set-up to a new level. The very first thing that jumped out at me was the meat in the lower registers. One of my favorite tracks is “Defiant” on the Vanished Garden album by Charles Lloyd and Lucinda Williams. The track now sounds so much better. The bass, the drums, the sax all flow much easier.

Even the well recorded “Live” album by Alison Krauss and Union Station benefits from the upgrade. I almost jumped out of my seat when the drum kicked in on “Sort of Revolution” by Fink. I don’t recall the soundstage being so large on that track. Maybe I overlooked it in the past but I can really hear Sting’s fingers as he plays “Fields of Gold” from his My Songs Version.

All vocals seem “cleaner” for want of a better term, both male such as James Gray’s “Last Summer” or female with Joni Mitchell on “The Magdalene Laundries “.

Bottom line it’s just more musical in every aspect. Can’t wait to hear more.

For those who commented on the time required to turn these units around you may want to read this article I found online. I didn’t know this upgrade was so all encompassing.

Momentum S250 MxV Amplifier from Dan D'Agostino | Review - Part-Time Audiophile