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  1. #1

    Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Replacing its dated Wolfson architecture Linn finally added a DAC chip to the Klimax Streamer/ DAC, which can actually play back DSD.

    From a Linn perspective this is a huge change of heart, as they have been a very strong proponent of the PCM camp so far.

    https://www.linn.co.uk/technology/katalyst
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  2. #2
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    Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Haha. That's funny. They had such an anti-DSD campaign for so long.

    Maybe they should have skipped DSD, saved face and gone straight to MQA.

    Lumin has some significant competition now, but the last time I checked, the Linn app was no where near as polished as the Lumin app.

    If you can't beat 'em....Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists


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  3. #3

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Better late than never. If they do DSD like they do PSM could be interesting.
    Industry Disclosure: Owner Epiphanic Audio. Bespoke 2 channel resource in Virginia Beach VA. Dealer for darTZeel and other great brands.

  4. #4

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Have to agree with Mike that the change of heart is almost funny.

    But you do have a good point as well: if they indeed do DSD or MQA for that matter) as well as they do PCM it could freshen up the market a bit. I used to own a Klimax and must admit you can't say anything else, than that it was very good. But at that time Lumin was not around yet...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  5. #5
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Replacing its dated Wolfson architecture Linn finally added a DAC chip to the Klimax Streamer/ DAC, which can actually play back DSD.

    From a Linn perspective this is a huge change of heart, as they have been a very strong proponent of the PCM camp so far.

    https://www.linn.co.uk/technology/katalyst
    On the link that you have included you can see they still don't support DSD.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post

    Lumin has some significant competition now, but the last time I checked, the Linn app was no where near as polished as the Lumin app.

    If you can't beat 'em....Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists
    If you can't beat 'em...., use them! That is what I do for years now for my Linn and Auralic mini. I agree the Lumin app is a lot better.




    I realize Linn has no traction in the US. For what I understand due to a poor distributor. But here in Europe Linn is the most sold and acknowledged hi-end streamer brand. And according the high-end audio magazines as well as users in Europe on a higher level SQ compared to Lumin. True or not, Linn brought this new Katalyst to improve sound quality and as early users say it is again a big step up.
    Hans

    Bowers & Wilkins 805 D3 /alternatively JM Lab Point Source Aria 5 (self modified)/ 2x SVS 3000 SB, Audionet AMP (2x), dCS Bartók used as streamer / DAC / preamp, Pro-Ject RPM 9 with Speedbox S and Orthofon MC Vivo Blue, KEF LS50 Nocturne / Sunfire Atmos(kitchen). Patio: Bluesound Node 2i and Focal CMS50.
    RoonServer on Nucleus.

  6. #6

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Glareskin View Post
    On the link that you have included you can see they still don't support DSD.
    They do, you have just to dig a bit deeper into the specs.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  7. #7
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    They do, you have just to dig a bit deeper into the specs.
    Thanks. Can you send the link because I couldn't find it and also the Linn community seems to think it cannot support DSD. http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=34384
    Hans

    Bowers & Wilkins 805 D3 /alternatively JM Lab Point Source Aria 5 (self modified)/ 2x SVS 3000 SB, Audionet AMP (2x), dCS Bartók used as streamer / DAC / preamp, Pro-Ject RPM 9 with Speedbox S and Orthofon MC Vivo Blue, KEF LS50 Nocturne / Sunfire Atmos(kitchen). Patio: Bluesound Node 2i and Focal CMS50.
    RoonServer on Nucleus.

  8. #8

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Glareskin View Post
    Thanks. Can you send the link because I couldn't find it and also the Linn community seems to think it cannot support DSD. http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=34384
    I digged into the specs and it came up, and of course the DAC chip supports it. So I think they would be plain stupid to disable it.

    But frankly speaking, I don't care. I switched to Meitner some years ago due to lack of DSD support of the Klimax. So figure it out, I am not going to engage in an irrelevant battle here if someone is not able to read product specs. I do not mean to be rude, but I simply do not care enough to argue about this.


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    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  9. #9
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    figure it out, I am not going to engage in an irrelevant battle here if someone is not able to read product specs.
    Wow! I don't understand where this reaction is coming from. I am just asking your source as I haven't found it and it was you who started this thread. I am not looking for a battle, just facts.
    Hans

    Bowers & Wilkins 805 D3 /alternatively JM Lab Point Source Aria 5 (self modified)/ 2x SVS 3000 SB, Audionet AMP (2x), dCS Bartók used as streamer / DAC / preamp, Pro-Ject RPM 9 with Speedbox S and Orthofon MC Vivo Blue, KEF LS50 Nocturne / Sunfire Atmos(kitchen). Patio: Bluesound Node 2i and Focal CMS50.
    RoonServer on Nucleus.

  10. #10

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    As said, the intention is not to be rude. Just dig into it and find out for yourself. Happy hunting.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  11. #11
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Glareskin View Post
    On the link that you have included you can see they still don't support DSD.





    If you can't beat 'em...., use them! That is what I do for years now for my Linn and Auralic mini. I agree the Lumin app is a lot better.




    I realize Linn has no traction in the US. For what I understand due to a poor distributor. But here in Europe Linn is the most sold and acknowledged hi-end streamer brand. And according the high-end audio magazines as well as users in Europe on a higher level SQ compared to Lumin. True or not, Linn brought this new Katalyst to improve sound quality and as early users say it is again a big step up.
    The Linn is very musical. But a few years ago, Jock (The Professor) and others compared the top of the line Linn (Klimax??) to the Lumin and the Lumin was preferred.

    Will be interesting to see if Linn does support DSD, MQA, etc. in the future.


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  12. #12

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    I guess they will have a tough stand, as Lumin is quite up-to-date with the latest technical developments.

    And as you mentioned Mike, the Lumin app appears to be state-of the-art.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  13. #13
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Glareskin.......I dug a little deeper for you. The new Linn Klimax DS and DSM uses the latest AKM4497 DAC that is seen in the photo below. The data sheet on the AKM AK4497 DAC is here: https://www.akm.com/akm/en/file/datasheet/AK4497EQ.pdf . It states the AK4497 accepts up to 768kHz PCM data and 22.4MHz DSD data. Linn does not show in the spec sheet for the Klimax components that it can play DSD. https://www.linn.co.uk/hifi-separate...mparison-table


    Dan

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  14. #14
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    I guess they will have a tough stand, as Lumin is quite up-to-date with the latest technical developments.

    And as you mentioned Mike, the Lumin app appears to be state-of the-art.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Plus a much lower price point here in the U.S. and many model options available from $2k to $10k. And Lumin is participating here on AS daily and always available, answering questions.

    Didn't the old man who founded Linn retire and now the kid is running the show? I could be wrong...

    As for AKM, isn't that the same chip used in the new Esoteric network music player? I think that's competitively priced too.

    Linn had the market. They were the pioneers. But at least here in the U.S., they buried their heads in the sand and told consumers they were wrong to want DSD. Gave us all kinds of charts and graphs and reasons to tell consumers they were wrong. That didn't work out so well.

    I would love to see Linn up their game here. That may push Lumin too! Good for consumers.

    AKM...interesting choice. Good. But interesting.


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  15. #15
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Mike.......Just for general information in response to your commement above, the new Esoteric K-01X and K-03X CD/SACD/DAC players use the AKM AK4495S DAC. The newest, and yet to be released, Esoteric Grandioso K1 SACD/CD/DAC player uses the AKM AK4497 DAC.
    Dan

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    Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113

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  16. #16
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Double-D View Post
    Mike.......Just for general information in response to your commement above, the new Esoteric K-01X and K-03X CD/SACD/DAC players use the AKM AK4495S DAC. The newest, and yet to be released, Esoteric Grandioso K1 SACD/CD/DAC player uses the AKM AK4497 DAC.
    What does the Esoteric D-02x use? Any idea?
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  17. #17
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    What does the Esoteric D-02x use? Any idea?
    If I'm not mistaken from what I read its the same chip used in the Brytson BDA-3,the AK4490
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  18. #18
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    AK4490 the same chip used in the Brytson BDA-3
    Hmmmm. Is that fairly old? How does it compare to the 4495S and 4497 Dan mentioned? What's in the Esoteric Network Music Player?
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  19. #19

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Well, to present the "other side" of the story, I actually prefer the Linn app (Kazoo) to the Lumin app. I've them all installed on our iPads, and most people that come here end up preferring Kazoo too. Plus, there's Kazoo on my Mac, so I don't even need to reach out for the iPad... Since Linn created the actual protocol Lumin runs on (and made it open), there would be no Lumin if it weren't for Linn

    Second, the whole DSD thing was problematic, yes. I'm still annoying when I pick an album from my collection, and the Linn simply won't play, because it's DSD. But from what I understand, dealing with DSD wouldn't allow Linn to provide the compreensive DSP / room optimization that its streamers provide:

    https://www.linn.co.uk/technology/space-optimisation

    It's just not feasible to apply DSP to DSD streams in real-time (not today, let alone many years ago when Linn started this whole streaming thing), so they went with what was possible, PCM.

    I will know more about these new products in about a week. I'm pretty curious to see if they really did DSD, and if they did, how are they coping with the DSP stuff...

    One thing I agree with Mike, though: technological progress should turn better (and cheaper) products for us! And besides, choice is good


    cheers,
    alex

  20. #20
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Hmmmm. Is that fairly old? How does it compare to the 4495S and 4497 Dan mentioned? What's in the Esoteric Network Music Player?
    Mike if your talking about the N05, The same chip. http://www.esoteric-usa.com/Products/dacs/N-05.php As far as old, it was introduced late 2014.

    interesting schematic of the D-02x showing the 4490's
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  21. #21
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Thanks Chris. So the N-05 uses 4490?


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  22. #22
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Thanks Chris. So the N-05 uses 4490?


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  23. #23
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    LOL.


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  24. #24

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Hmmmm. Is that fairly old? How does it compare to the 4495S and 4497 Dan mentioned? What's in the Esoteric Network Music Player?
    Hegel, Questyle and Astell & Kern are also using AK chips.


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  25. #25
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    It is rather astonishing that Linn appears to have intentionally crippled the AK4497 DAC's capability to decode DSD in their newest Klimax components. That AKM AK4497 DAC is the same one that's in the new Esoteric Grandioso K1, their premier single box SACD/CD/DAC to be released next month in Japan. The AK4497 is capable of 768kHz PCM data and 22.4MHz DSD. Other than maintaining the company mantra of the uselessness of DSD, I don't understand why Linn would stifle sales opportunities against their competitors with such a narrow minded design philosophy, especially when their chosen DAC delivers state of the art DSD capabilities.
    Dan

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  26. #26

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    It will be really interesting to see if that indeed is the case, it would be bamboozling. Especially as there now also are Linn DSD downloads (only a few though). And a +15K DAC without support for all possible formats might be a hard sell in the future. But as it is a FPGA concept any truth might also be temporary.

    As the entire Katalyst announcement is fairly recent (Sep 16), there is not too much data available yet on how the AK4497 has been implemented in the Klimax range. Let's wait and see.


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  27. #27

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Dan / Kuoppis,

    As I said, the apparent lack of DSD might have something to do with the DSP functionality that's built-in every Linn streamer. You can't do DSP in pure DSD at this point, so maybe they just opted not to offer it, prefering the benefits of DSP instead.

    But as I said, I'll know more soon!

    BTW I've just heard from Linn, and one good bit of news here: existing Klimax DS and DSM owners will be able upgrade to the new DAC platform, for a fraction of the price of a new unit!

  28. #28
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    The Linn is very musical. But a few years ago, Jock (The Professor) and others compared the top of the line Linn (Klimax??) to the Lumin and the Lumin was preferred.
    Also a few years ago two groups of audio enthusiasts in Asia and Europe compared the Lumin (the first on the market, I think it is still the top model?) with the Linn line-up from that time and concluded that the Lumin was on Majik level. A later test in Audio magazine more or less confirmed this. I have copied a link to the Asian comparison because that was in English. http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthre...ighlight=lumin

    Since then Linn introduced two new generations and the latest one with the Katalyst PCB gets very good feedback. Here is a review in the British magazine HiFi+.
    http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/lin...-music-player/

    Also Audio rated the Klimax DS/3 (with Katalyst) as the best they ever heard. I realize these are just opinions but I also believe they cannot all be wrong or biased. I think the audio lovers on this forum that always pick the very finest gear should at least give it a try one day. And it does work fine with the great Lumin app :-)

    Hans

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  29. #29
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Will the new product(s) support DSD?


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  30. #30
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Will the new product(s) support DSD?
    No. At least not for now. According to the chip specialists in this thread the chip set is capable of DSD but Linn doesn't offer it.
    Hans

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  31. #31
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Double-D View Post
    Glareskin.......I dug a little deeper for you. The new Linn Klimax DS and DSM uses the latest AKM4497 DAC that is seen in the photo below. The data sheet on the AKM AK4497 DAC is here: https://www.akm.com/akm/en/file/datasheet/AK4497EQ.pdf . It states the AK4497 accepts up to 768kHz PCM data and 22.4MHz DSD data. Linn does not show in the spec sheet for the Klimax components that it can play DSD. https://www.linn.co.uk/hifi-separate...mparison-table


    Thanks Dan! But as you concluded: Linn doesn't offer it....
    Hans

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  32. #32

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Well, there are two types of companies, those who change and those who disappear.


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  33. #33

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    I've just attended the launch event for the new Linn Klimax w/ the new (4th generation) DAC technology, called Katalyst.

    Indeed, DSD is not supported for the reason I outlined before: it would simply negate a lot of the benefits that Linn offers in its products, and what makes them different from a regular streamer. So, no volume control, no room optimization, among other things.

    Their technical director was available, and he said they could do DSD, it's all a question of priorities. At the moment, they're hard at work getting the whole Linn lineup ready for multichannel/surround, so that's taking a lot of resources.

    At the event, I could also compare the previous Klimax DS (and DSM) to the new models, and the difference isn't subtle. The new stuff attains levels of naturalness that are very impressive, for an all-in-one-box solution.

  34. #34

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Those of us who have been in the hobby for a long time will remember that Linn steadfastedly refused to acknowledge that digital even existed. It was their LP12 or the highway. They were holdouts for such a long time that it came as a bit of a shock when they finally conceded the blindingly obvious and released a CD player.

    They really don't deserve their success. If there are forward thinking British companies that deserve to be successful, that would be Meridian, Wilson Benesch, or Chord. Linn can continue to live in denial and go into receivership for all I care.

  35. #35

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Update: Talking to a Linn dealer in the region he suggested that Linn will save the DSD option for a next "upgrade".


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  36. #36

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Yes, I talked to Linn's technical director, and they just have too much on their plate right now.
    I'm just trying to get them to support DSD>PCM on-the-fly conversion in their Linn Kazoo server. That'll help a lot for folks who won't want to mess with MinimServer and ffmpeg etc.
    In my server, I'm running a separate instance of MinimServer for the DSD files, and doing the DSD>PCM on-the-fly thing, while I keep a main instance with all the files playing straight through...

  37. #37
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by asiufy View Post
    In my server, I'm running a separate instance of MinimServer for the DSD files, and doing the DSD>PCM on-the-fly thing, while I keep a main instance with all the files playing straight through...
    Why not just use MinimServer for both DSD and PCM files? Thanks.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  38. #38

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by asiufy View Post
    Yes, I talked to Linn's technical director, and they just have too much on their plate right now.
    I'm just trying to get them to support DSD>PCM on-the-fly conversion in their Linn Kazoo server. That'll help a lot for folks who won't want to mess with MinimServer and ffmpeg etc.
    In my server, I'm running a separate instance of MinimServer for the DSD files, and doing the DSD>PCM on-the-fly thing, while I keep a main instance with all the files playing straight through...
    Yes, this is the Linn philosophy. The problem is just that DSD sounds better than PCM.

    Linn' logic is of course that then there is no point in buying DSD files if they're anyway spoilt afterwards in the Linn streamer's conversion process.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

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  39. #39

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    Why not just use MinimServer for both DSD and PCM files? Thanks.
    Because the Linn doesn't do DSD. So one instance converts DSD>PCM, and the other instance doesn't. So, if I'm playing the Linn, I'll use one instance, and if I'm playing other DACs/streamers (like our MSBs), we can use the other instance.

  40. #40

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Revisiting this thread, a year later, to announce that, finally, Linn now supports native DSD! It's only in the Katalyst powered devices, like the Linn Klimax DS/DSM!

    It's just a simple software upgrade, done via Linn's Konfig app.

    From what I've read, it's native DSD, direct into the AKM chip, no PCM conversion.

    Played a couple of albums already, and it sounds awesome!

    The bets are now when Linn will do MQA... My guess is somewhere around 2020


    cheers,
    Alex

  41. #41

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Finally. I mean the guys are good, but nevertheless they need to move with the market or risk being left behind.


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    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

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  42. #42
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    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Finally. I mean the guys are good, but nevertheless they need to move with the market or risk being left behind.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Well said. I chuckled when I read this. I’m thinking “DSD? That was so yesterday...”

    But better late than never and Linn makes terrific products.


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  43. #43

    Re: Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Well said. I chuckled when I read this. I’m thinking “DSD? That was so yesterday...”

    But better late than never and Linn makes terrific products.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I agree with you Mike. DSD is table-stakes, MQA is today’s question.

    But to be fair, a lots of manufacturers are struggling with MQA due to the secretive comms policy and some of the tech arguments. If you cut the high-end off and paste it in again on the bottom, is it then still lossless?

    Luckily as an end-consumer I have the privilege to just judge it by-the-ear and and be happy or not Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

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    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

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Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists

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