OK, I had to ask ....

I blame the media for turning it into such a sh*tstorm. It's to distract us from more pertinent issues: Bradley Manning in final bid to have 'aiding the enemy' charge dismissed | World news | guardian.co.uk

It's a sad sad case.

It is very probable that both of them feared for their lives.

Travon was very possibly scared because a strange man was following him, so Travon probably attacked Zimmerman to protect himself. But after being attacked, I'm pretty sure that Zimmerman was scared so he protected himself.

I edited my first original post (added some more); please have another look, thank you.

It was NOT stand your ground.

the professor said:

It's a sad sad case.

It is very probable that both of them feared for their lives.

Travon was very possibly scared because a strange man was following him, so Travon probably attacked Zimmerman to protect himself. But after being attacked, I'm pretty sure that Zimmerman was scared so he protected himself.

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I agree with you; it is indeed a sad tragedy, and many sad tragedies happen in this world every single day.

* I am fully confident that indeed the altercation between George and Trayvon escalated to the point of no-return.
Both of them at one point were fighting for survival.

And I hate guns! ...I love people, but I hate guns!

joeinid said:

It was NOT stand your ground.

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Please Joe, go ahead and elaborate.

* By the way, when I mentioned it I did all by itself, without any comment attached to it; just few emoticons.
...In order to create a discussion among ourselves here regarding this very special Florida law.
...Kind of like a second attachment.

joeinid said:

It was NOT stand your ground.

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+1...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

NorthStar said:

Please Joe, go ahead and elaborate.

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It was self defense.

joeinid said:

It was self defense.

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I edited my above post (#7).

One more; I congratulate these six women of the jury for their impartial and objective judgement.
I know (I am totally sure) that they rendered the 100% perfect verdict.

I agree

All the prosecution proved was that they had no evidence.

NorthStar said:

One more; I congratulate these six women of the jury for their impartial and objective judgement.
I know (I am totally sure) that they rendered the 100% perfect verdict.

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+1 regarding the Jury.

I have a license for concealed carry. I carry because if confronted by someone I want to be able to protect myself and my wife.

Zimmerman should probably not have followed Martin. From the testimony it appears Martin decided, for whatever reason, to punch Zimmerman in the face. In my opinion, at that point, the use of force would be justified. I always fear if I get into it with someone and knock them down, all it will take is them to smack their head on the asphalt/concrete/floor and get a concussion and die. Then I'll spend the rest of my life in the gray bar hotel. And what if that happened to me? What if the first punch stunned me so bad I couldn't see or think straight. And next some guys on top of me? I'll pull the pistol and put an end to it right quick.

I like my life and am not interested in learning if I'm gonna survive an attack, or let the asshole grab my gun and put an end to me. I was mugged once, gun to my head, knife to my belly. I'd prefer that never happen again. I wasn't hurt, but feeling so defenseless and at the mercy of those assholes taught me all I needed to know.

Zimmerman, by all accounts, was soft. Soft or tough had the right to defend himself. I hear lots of comments about bringing a gun to a fist fight, blah blah blah. In my opinion its a risk you take if you chose to punch somebody. It is extremely sad the bullet killed him. Had he just been wounded this whole event would have gone un-noticed. Just like starting a fight in a bar, the guy you choose to punch just might be an MMA champion, or martial arts master. And his punch just might kill you.

While I do carry, the last thing I ever want to do is have to pull my weapon, 'cause at that point it is extremely likely I'll use it. And the worst six months or more of my life will be on the horizon.

If you're the praying type, say a prayer for the Martin family. I'm sure they are still in a lot of pain. And pray Zimmerman can get on with his life.

Bobvin,

I appreciate your post. Thank you.

What's good right now is that all America is talking about it! ...And the rest of the world is also listening.

* And by the way, George would have love to take the stand and tell the full story. ...His lawyer said so.

And just to be real clear again, I found this to be a very sad tragedy, and I'm not siding with George in particular, because George wasn't perfect in this entire situation.
And I feel deeply for Trayvon's parents and friends.

It is truly unfortunate the entire series of events that ultimately culminated to this tragedy resulting with the sad death of a young man. I wish that we all have the power to go back in time and fix all the issues in need to be fixed. ...That'll be the day.

NorthStar said:

. . . . Sometimes come some circumstances in life that are better being exposed differently than our justice system . . . .

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It is called a LEGAL system, not a justice system.

I'm just saying that having gone through a bad divorce 10 years ago.

To start with, Zimmernman was/is pudgy and out of shape. Martin was taller, in better shape, and had martial arts experience.

If, and I say "if", Zimmermen were following Martin, while "creepy", is no crime.

Since the neighborhood has been experiencing a rash of crimes lately, as a neighorhod watchman he was simply being diligent.

Martin taking offense at Zimmernam possibly following him is no crime either.

Now, here's where it gets sticky.

Had they had a yelling match, I strongly doubt he would have pulled is gun, but there's no proof either way.

Perhaps if Martin simply decked Zimmerman, cursed him out, and went on his way, probably no problem. I strongly doubt he would have pulled is gun, but there's no proof either way.

In either case, since Zimmermans gun was holstered and hidden, he obviously didn't pull it at any time, at least until he shot Martin, and I doubt he would initiate a physical confrontation with someone who could obviously whup his butt. He may be crazy, bit I don't think he's stupid.

By the same token, I believe that if Martin knew Zimmerman was carrying, I doubt he would have started a physical altercation, or at I would hope not. I doubt he would be that stupid.

I think he just saw a short, pudgy "guy" whose ash he could easily whup, and proceeded to do so.

But, when, as eyewitnesss reported, Martin had Zimmerman pinned on the ground, straddled him to keep him there, and was pummeling him unmercifuly with no obvious signs of letting up, now there IS a problem.

Now, think about it. Honestly, what would YOU have done in Zimerman's position at this time?

Such is the beauty of an armed citizenry. Miscreants cannot assume they are the only ones with the upper hand.

The part that bugs me is how it got turned into a race thing and how that is what the aftermath is all about. Had Martin been white, and Zimmerman black, then it would be said that Martin beating on him was a hate crime and of course Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. It really pisses me off.

I am not bigoted, not in any way shape or form. My godmother and godfather are African American and I never look at the color of a persons skin, just the warmth of their soul. But it pisses me off when ANY minority constantly plays the race card.

When a white man is beaten, a white women raped, a white person killed, when do you ever hear of it as a "hate crime" if the attacker was a minority ? When do you see white people take to the streets in protest saying "It was because of race"? You don't.

I am sorry, a crime is a crime and the victim crutch must go. Martin committed a crime. Perhaps in fear. Zimmerman committed a crime, also perhaps in fear. I don't know enough about it; I was not there.

I will tell you this.
If I am following a suspicious character in my neighborhood and he attacks me, I don't care what color he is, I am going to defend myself - and if I were carrying and could, would shoot on the spot. But if he ran away, I would not chase him and shoot him. I would get to safety, call 911 and do the right thing. I say that in an armchair. I really don't know if in a blind rage of being beaten I might do otherwise.

My only point to this (please don't take this the wrong way), the race card has to go. Black, white, yellow, brown - You commit a crime, you pay the price. Period. And to hell with the protests because of race. Nuff said.

IMO - the jury got it right. The facts of the case came out and let me tell you, those ladies took their civic duty seriously. When I heard that one juror speak on CNN - it was clear that she was one sharp cookie. She knew the facts of the case - what was plausible and what was questionable.

George is 5 foot 7 inches and 195 pounds at the time of the incident (a full 5-6 inches shorter than Trayvon). George is out of shape and overweight. He is unlikely to be the one to attack, Trayvon was hiding and when he could, he jumped George and proceeded to pummel him. I believe George was attacked first and the cries for help were his: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin Listening to the 911 tapes is haunting. Hearing those cries for help and the gun shot will send chills up your spine.

The pictures of George - clearly beaten - show a man who was defending himself. Plain and simple.





One eye witness said, "a black male, wearing a dark colored 'hoodie' on top of a white or Hispanic male who was yelling for help." The witness said that the black male was throwing punches "MMA [mixed martial arts] style."

We should all hope that none of us are ever ever ever in a situation where we have to decide between "kill or be killed". I had an experience only a couple of weeks ago that had me shaking. As my wife and I and two young kids were on our way to Legoland, we decided to stop in at Wendy's for lunch in Bartow Florida. The Wendy's is located right along a busy highway. As I got out of the car to get my son out of his car seat in the bag, all I could hear were the cars racing by. Out of no where, three WHITE thugs, baseball caps on backwards, road their bikes and rammed their front tires into my wife's car door as she was trying to get out of the car (with her leg stuck in the door trying to get out). They demanded "five" and all I could see through the passenger side window was one kid raising his hand. This all happened in seconds and I couldn't hear anything due to the cars and trucks on the highway....I could only see through the passenger side window. This all happened in less than 5 seconds. I tore around the back of the car to the other side and confronted the three 15-16 year olds - I shouted profanities among other things at them. They proceeded to quickly retreat and bike away shouting some nonsense as they biked away. Thankfully no one was hurt....only a little shaken. I have never been a huge advocate for guns. Did that incident make me wish I had one and quite possibly change my mind? You're damn right.

Good post.

ohbythebay said:

The part that bugs me is how it got turned into a race thing and how that is what the aftermath is all about. Had Martin been white, and Zimmerman black, then it would be said that Martin beating on him was a hate crime and of course Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. It really pisses me off.

I am not bigoted, not in any way shape or form. My godmother and godfather are African American and I never look at the color of a persons skin, just the warmth of their soul. But it pisses me off when ANY minority constantly plays the race card.

When a white man is beaten, a white women raped, a white person killed, when do you ever hear of it as a "hate crime" if the attacker was a minority ? When do you see white people take to the streets in protest saying "It was because of race"? You don't.

I am sorry, a crime is a crime and the victim crutch must go. Martin committed a crime. Perhaps in fear. Zimmerman committed a crime, also perhaps in fear. I don't know enough about it; I was not there.

I will tell you this.
If I am following a suspicious character in my neighborhood and he attacks me, I don't care what color he is, I am going to defend myself - and if I were carrying and could, would shoot on the spot. But if he ran away, I would not chase him and shoot him. I would get to safety, call 911 and do the right thing. I say that in an armchair. I really don't know if in a blind rage of being beaten I might do otherwise.

My only point to this (please don't take this the wrong way), the race card has to go. Black, white, yellow, brown - You commit a crime, you pay the price. Period. And to hell with the protests because of race. Nuff said.

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