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  1. #1
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    Streamer selection

    My son is trying his best to help the 'old man' come into the 21st Century. Currently my sources are SACD/CD and LP's. In so far as streaming is concerned he utilizes an Eversolo DMP-A6. Even for this Neanderthal it seems pretty straight forward and intuitive.

    EverSolo DMP-A6 Network Streamer & DAC | Audio Advice

    Any others I should consider ??
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  2. #2
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Depends on budget.

    The Aurender A15 and Lumin T3 are both excellent.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  3. #3
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Depends on budget.
    in the neighborhood of the Eversolo, less than 1k
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  4. #4
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    in the neighborhood of the Eversolo, less than 1k
    Didn’t even know there was such a neighborhood. Streamer selection

    Haven’t heard the Eversolo. Heard the name though.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  5. #5
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Do you have a music streaming service already?

    If you are wanting to explore, for low cost, the Wiim units are well regarded.

    But the Eversolo is well reviewed as well. HiRose is another brand.

    Be sure to figure out where your music is going to come from, and that your chosen product will utilize it. Also check the output connection, and ensure you have an input somewhere.

    It will take higher end devices to match a good vinyl, or SACD rig though.
    Amplification : Modwright LS300 - Atma-Sphere "Class D" monoblocks
    Digital : MSB Premier DAC+Digital Director, Oppo 203, Sonos Port (W4S mod)
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  6. #6
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Bones, thanks for the reply ! No, I haven't decided on a streaming source/supplier yet. As for the WiiM gear , I too have heard good things for their relative low costs, perhaps a good way to 'get my toes wet' ?
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  7. #7
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    Re: Streamer selection

    The files have to come from somewhere. I was active in “computer audio” about when it started. I have a medium sized collection of computer files. These were ripped from CDs, and more recently purchased from various websites.

    Starting from Zero, streaming from online services works just great, and is wonderful for trying out new music. Some of the services are very good at extrapolation from a starting song/artist I usually start with a known album, and let Roon extrapolate until it gets too weird..

    If you have an Amazon Prime account, Prime Music has good offerings, but a pretty basic service. Apple Music is better in some ways.

    Spotify is the young people’s streaming king. My wife uses this service, as she is into alternative music, where I’m more classic rock, and electronic.

    The HiRez twins are Qobuz, and Tidal. Both are good, with slight differences in perspective.

    Spotify, and Tidal have a “Connect” service which simplifies use with some streamers.
    Amplification : Modwright LS300 - Atma-Sphere "Class D" monoblocks
    Digital : MSB Premier DAC+Digital Director, Oppo 203, Sonos Port (W4S mod)
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  8. #8
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Dave

    Do you have a separate DAC or would you be using the one in the streamer. As to the DMP-A6 it is a well built unit with a good screen and and a complete software package that allows you to stream from Qobuz, Tidal, Amazon, Deezer, Radio Paradise and a host of others from inside the app. It is a good starting point that will also look good on your rack. Can always give it a spin from Amazon. I've had one in a secondary system since last July.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  9. #9
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Not sure of the rest of your equipment, but it seems a shame to have to buy a new box of electronics just for streaming. That one looks rather better than the obvious choice (Bluesound Node), but it still includes a DAC that I presume you already have.

    Many modern integrateds and preamps include a DAC and streamer, so I'd look at the alternative of getting such a beast and you'll have all your streaming requirements in that single box.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  10. #10
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Dave - do you have a DAC?
    Tom

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  11. #11
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Answering Tom & Jacks question on a DAC, my SACD/CD player (Marantz Ruby) DAC is accessible I do believe
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  12. #12

    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    My son is trying his best to help the 'old man' come into the 21st Century. Currently my sources are SACD/CD and LP's. In so far as streaming is concerned he utilizes an Eversolo DMP-A6. Even for this Neanderthal it seems pretty straight forward and intuitive.

    EverSolo DMP-A6 Network Streamer & DAC | Audio Advice

    Any others I should consider ??
    The Eversolo DMP-A6 has received excellent reviews/recommendations in other sites (ASR). Not sure if it is allowed to post links here, but you can Google it. You will also find other options for streamers in your price range that are also highly rated. The "objective" folks believe that the job of a streaming device is to deliver bit-perfect data to your other devices (like your DAC) and then let those devices do their job.
    PS. The Eversolo has a DAC, but you can also connect it to a separate DAC if you already own one.

  13. #13

    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones13 View Post
    The files have to come from somewhere. I was active in “computer audio” about when it started. I have a medium sized collection of computer files. These were ripped from CDs, and more recently purchased from various websites.

    Starting from Zero, streaming from online services works just great, and is wonderful for trying out new music. Some of the services are very good at extrapolation from a starting song/artist I usually start with a known album, and let Roon extrapolate until it gets too weird..

    If you have an Amazon Prime account, Prime Music has good offerings, but a pretty basic service. Apple Music is better in some ways.

    Spotify is the young peopleÂ’s streaming king. My wife uses this service, as she is into alternative music, where IÂ’m more classic rock, and electronic.

    The HiRez twins are Qobuz, and Tidal. Both are good, with slight differences in perspective.

    Spotify, and Tidal have a “Connect” service which simplifies use with some streamers.
    Agree with Bones. Streaming from online services works great.

    Music services like Qobuz also include different versions/mastering of albums so you can actually get to check the changes. My experience is that once you get used to streaming, there is no going back.

  14. #14
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    Re: Streamer selection

    If memory serves didn't Innuos come out with streamers in or under $1k?

    Bones13 is correct in that you will need to spend for a quality unit if you expect it to rival the sound of your TT or disks. I can understand pickiing up something entry just to get your feet wet.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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    SVS PC13 Ultra
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    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  15. #15

    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    My son is trying his best to help the 'old man' come into the 21st Century. Currently my sources are SACD/CD and LP's. In so far as streaming is concerned he utilizes an Eversolo DMP-A6. Even for this Neanderthal it seems pretty straight forward and intuitive.

    EverSolo DMP-A6 Network Streamer & DAC | Audio Advice

    Any others I should consider ??
    With the Eversolo device, you could rip your CD collection and it can access it. That way you can listen to your own music collection without having to pay for a music streaming service.

  16. #16
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Looks like Future Audiophile has a review of that Ever unit, looked like same model number.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  17. #17
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    My son is trying his best to help the 'old man' come into the 21st Century. Currently my sources are SACD/CD and LP's. In so far as streaming is concerned he utilizes an Eversolo DMP-A6. Even for this Neanderthal it seems pretty straight forward and intuitive.

    EverSolo DMP-A6 Network Streamer & DAC | Audio Advice

    Any others I should consider ??
    The Eversolo is an excellent choice at it's price point.

    Here's some others at different price points worth consideration:

    Wiim Pro ($149) and Wiim Pro Plus ($219): WiiM Pro and Plus | Versatile Audiophile Streaming: Unleash the Brilliance

    iFi Zen Stream: ZEN Stream by iFi audio - The high-performance, flexible and affordable Streamer from iFi audio
    $399

    Sonore UltraRendu Plus: Sonore - ultraRendu
    $999

    OpticalRendu Deluxe:Sonore - opticalRendu Deluxe
    $1600

    SOtM
    sMS-200 Neo Network Player: https://sotm-usa.com/collections/sot...network-player
    Regular price $500.00. You can also upgrade this to the Special Edition for an extra $250, the upgrade includes EVOX Caps, Internal 7N UPOCC copper or silver wiring, and eABS-200 heat absorber

    SMS-200UltraNeo "network renderer" (effectively same as a "streamer"; no DAC built-in)
    https://sotm-usa.com/products/sms-20...twork-player-1
    $1200

    You can also upgrade the internal clock system in the SOtM and add a Roon license.

    I've owned the SMS-200UltraNeo for some years, and it's excellent. SOtM also provides excellent product support & service.

    Innuos Pulse Mini: https://innuos.com/pulse-mini/
    $1449

    Lumin U2 Mini:
    https://www.luminmusic.com/lumin-u2-mini.html
    $2400

    Hope this helps, Dave. Cheers.
    Ĥѱ = 𝐸ѱ

  18. #18
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    Re: Streamer selection

    The Allo USBridge, with volumio installed
    Combined with a Farad linear powersupply

  19. #19
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Thank you Stephen !!

    the WiiM Pro Plus seems to get alot positive attention for it's price point !
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  20. #20
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    Re: Streamer selection

    The Eversolo A6 was reviewed in FA, from that review I'd avoid the A6. The writer says he couldn't tell any difference between the A6 and the Bluesound Node. He mentions the Orchard Pecan Pie at $799 was better sounding than either. The review is worth a read if you are really considering the A6. He really beats up Eversolo for lack of support and response.

    Sonore is a company I'd try, IMO, based on support and how good my Ether Regen worked. It should have a return period if like his other products.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
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    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  21. #21

    Re: Streamer selection

    Dave, if you are the type of individual who enjoys DIY projects, you can build a streamer using a Raspberry Pi. You can find easy-to-follow instructions online. Total cost less than $100.

  22. #22
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    Thank you Stephen !!

    the WiiM Pro Plus seems to get alot positive attention for it's price point !
    Yes, it seems to be a very good value proposition.
    Ĥѱ = 𝐸ѱ

  23. #23
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    The Eversolo A6 was reviewed in FA, from that review I'd avoid the A6. The writer says he couldn't tell any difference between the A6 and the Bluesound Node. He mentions the Orchard Pecan Pie at $799 was better sounding than either. The review is worth a read if you are really considering the A6. He really beats up Eversolo for lack of support and response.

    Sonore is a company I'd try, IMO, based on support and how good my Ether Regen worked. It should have a return period if like his other products.
    The EtherREGEN is a product of UpTone Audio, not Sonore. IIRC, Sonore may have been a reseller of EtherREGEN for a time; I don't know if they still are. John Swenson does the design for both companies' products. Knowing first-hand how good a EE John Swenson is, I'm confident the EtherRendu or OpticalRendus are excellent products.

    Also, the Eversolo DMP-A6 has received many positive reviews, so personally, I wouldn't draw a conclusion of "a less than positive review" from a sample size N=1...just sayin'
    Ĥѱ = 𝐸ѱ

  24. #24
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Darko's fairly recent review of the Wiim Pro Plus:
    Ĥѱ = 𝐸ѱ

  25. #25
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Dave, another choice may be the Cambridge Audio MXN 10. $499 on Amazon.

    High-level specs:
    StreamMagic Gen 4 Module – fast music retrieval & high-quality sound
    ESS SABRE ES9033Q DAC – for the latest streaming capabilities
    High-quality Internet Radio – using MPEG-DASH support
    Spotify Connect, TIDAL & Qobuz built in – for best possible sound
    Roon Ready – simple consolidated browsing of digital music sources
    Ĥѱ = 𝐸ѱ

  26. #26
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Very informative thread. I had no idea of the many streaming options available for less than $1k. Certainly a good era for music lovers wanting to get in the hobby for a reasonable amount of money.
    _______________

    Mike

    Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
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  27. #27

    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritmo View Post
    Very informative thread. I had no idea of the many streaming options available for less than $1k. Certainly a good era for music lovers wanting to get in the hobby for a reasonable amount of money.
    You would be amazed at the number of “high-end” streamers costing a ton of money that are based on a lowly $50 RPi. Today, consumers can enjoy true high-end sound without having to spend a ton of money.

  28. #28
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    Answering Tom & Jacks question on a DAC, my SACD/CD player (Marantz Ruby) DAC is accessible I do believe
    I am certainly in the minority here but a streamer is a trivial digital to digital converter that, assuming you have a capable DAC, will make little to no difference in the sound of your system.
    It’s just a conversion from Ethernet to serial data. Any small microprocessor can do it without breaking a sweat.

    If your DAC has a USB input, the DAC’s clock will control all the timing and data transfer. If your DAC has an AES/EBU or S/PDIF interface then the streamer performance does matter but a good DAC will attenuate any jitter form the streamer.

    There are expensive streamer options and what you get with these devices is nice casework, an app that may be nice (or not) and maybe a pretty color display. All of these things are nice to have but don’t impact the sound quality.
    Tom

    Audio:
    Amati Futura Mains
    Amati Homage VOX Center,
    Proac Response 1sc Rears,
    Three MC2301's for L,C,R
    MC 602 for the rears
    C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
    Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
    SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

    Video:
    MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

    Lake House:
    Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3

    OnDeck:
    McIntosh MAC 4300v

  29. #29
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    I am certainly in the minority here but a streamer is a trivial digital to digital converter that, assuming you have a capable DAC, will make little to no difference in the sound of your system.
    It’s just a conversion from Ethernet to serial data. Any small microprocessor can do it without breaking a sweat.

    If your DAC has a USB input, the DAC’s clock will control all the timing and data transfer. If your DAC has an AES/EBU or S/PDIF interface then the streamer performance does matter but a good DAC will attenuate any jitter form the streamer.

    There are expensive streamer options and what you get with these devices is nice casework, an app that may be nice (or not) and maybe a pretty color display. All of these things are nice to have but don’t impact the sound quality.

    Tom, you're not in the minority at least when it comes to 'logical thinking' !
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  30. #30

    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    I am certainly in the minority here but a streamer is a trivial digital to digital converter that, assuming you have a capable DAC, will make little to no difference in the sound of your system.
    It’s just a conversion from Ethernet to serial data. Any small microprocessor can do it without breaking a sweat.

    If your DAC has a USB input, the DAC’s clock will control all the timing and data transfer. If your DAC has an AES/EBU or S/PDIF interface then the streamer performance does matter but a good DAC will attenuate any jitter form the streamer.

    There are expensive streamer options and what you get with these devices is nice casework, an app that may be nice (or not) and maybe a pretty color display. All of these things are nice to have but don’t impact the sound quality.
    I totally agree with everything said. In fact, I put my money on that: My streamer is a lowly RPi.

  31. #31
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    Re: Streamer selection

    That is just false information. I started with a HEOS, then the Node, thena NAD M50.2 and now my ACS10. The M50.2 was better than the first two by a lot but the ACS10 is better than all of them by a large amount. Unless you have experience comparing you should refrain from misguiding people. All of the mentioned I just used digital out. The was also a large improvement when going from a printer USB cable to the AQ, large enough if you couldn't hear it you shouldn't be spending large money on high end gear.

    If you gave me all my money back for the Aurender and any of the prior units for free I wouldn't do it, not even a consideration. I don't know why some of you persist in talking so much crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    I am certainly in the minority here but a streamer is a trivial digital to digital converter that, assuming you have a capable DAC, will make little to no difference in the sound of your system.
    It’s just a conversion from Ethernet to serial data. Any small microprocessor can do it without breaking a sweat.

    If your DAC has a USB input, the DAC’s clock will control all the timing and data transfer. If your DAC has an AES/EBU or S/PDIF interface then the streamer performance does matter but a good DAC will attenuate any jitter form the streamer.

    There are expensive streamer options and what you get with these devices is nice casework, an app that may be nice (or not) and maybe a pretty color display. All of these things are nice to have but don’t impact the sound quality.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
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    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  32. #32
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Thanks for the clarification. I saw both names on my papers or website so didn't realize the difference.

    I was a bit skeptical when the reviewer said he could hear no difference between the Node and A5, the none between the A5 and A5 Master. Valid points on response and support from the company though, if a reviewer got none then what chance would a consumer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    The EtherREGEN is a product of UpTone Audio, not Sonore. IIRC, Sonore may have been a reseller of EtherREGEN for a time; I don't know if they still are. John Swenson does the design for both companies' products. Knowing first-hand how good a EE John Swenson is, I'm confident the EtherRendu or OpticalRendus are excellent products.

    Also, the Eversolo DMP-A6 has received many positive reviews, so personally, I wouldn't draw a conclusion of "a less than positive review" from a sample size N=1...just sayin'
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Opps
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his latest Class D incarnation *

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    Re: Streamer selection

    This is the reason I advised the Allo and not a normal Rpi because the latter one doesnÂ’t have galvanic separation

    That having said, a good power supply is very important and what I forgot to mention, an open rpi or a plastic case is bad for the interference: a good aluminium chassis is the way to go.

  35. #35
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by NewAlkyogre View Post
    This is the reason I advised the Allo and not a normal Rpi because the latter one doesnÂ’t have galvanic separation

    That having said, a good power supply is very important and what I forgot to mention, an open rpi or a plastic case is bad for the interference: a good aluminium chassis is the way to go.
    Agreed on both points, power supply and chassis.

    Also, ground-plane noise reduction for these devices is very important as well. Connecting them to an Altaira or Gemini's GP-NR system pays big dividends in sound quality.
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  36. #36
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritmo View Post
    Very informative thread. I had no idea of the many streaming options available for less than $1k. Certainly a good era for music lovers wanting to get in the hobby for a reasonable amount of money.
    Yes, lots of options available these days. Personally, I think Lumin does this best, but they're in the higher price tier, and there are number of other very good value propositions at lower price tiers. If it were me looking in Dave's price range, I'd be looking at Wiim, iFi, Sonore, Eversolo, and SOtM. Just my 2˘, though. Cheers.
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    Re: Streamer selection

    But unless you are willing to experiment with third party apps then that eliminates everything from your list except Eversolo and WiiM. If dealing with third party apps is ok then the best of the ones I've tried while avoiding Roon is JPlay for IOS at $50 a year. At the moment it does Tidal and Qobuz and has it's own Roon Radio style function. Internet radio is coming soon.
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    Re: Streamer selection

    FYI, the Wiim Ultra, with a touchscreen, will be released soon... WiiM announces two new wireless audiophile streamers — one with a touchscreen - The Verge

    FYI, I still use an old Squeezebox Touch as my streamer, with digital out to a Bel Canto 3.5 DAC, and still love the sound. At some point I'll consider upgrading streamer/DAC, but would need to hear significant improvement before shelling out big $$.
    Squeezebox Touch/Bel Canto DAC 3.5VB + Oppo 205 > Conrad Johnson CT5 preamp and Premier 350 amp > Martin Logan Expression 13A's and two ML BF210 subs. Audience Au24e I/C's & speaker cable. Member of the Suncoast Audiophile Society.

  39. #39
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Gentlemen, again, thank you all for enlightening me. As my son reminds me, "I've remained behind the times for too long" !
    Cheers ! …. Dave

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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    But unless you are willing to experiment with third party apps then that eliminates everything from your list except Eversolo and WiiM. If dealing with third party apps is ok then the best of the ones I've tried while avoiding Roon is JPlay for IOS at $50 a year. At the moment it does Tidal and Qobuz and has it's own Roon Radio style function. Internet radio is coming soon.
    Roon and Qobuz are excellent "third party apps", and I really like them. Roon has been great integration for it's integration with Qobuz, for just sitting back and discovering new content, including all the playlists from various companies and organizations that have playlists on Qobuz and it integrates seamlessly with many makes of network bridges and streamers and streamer/DACs. While it doesn't provide the absolute audio quality I obtain, for example, from using the native Lumin app on a Lumin U2 or P1, to be honest, much of the time, that's just fine. I don't need "the absolute sound", absolutely all the time. Life's too short to obsess over these sorts of things. Many times, I just want to sit back, cuddle with the cat, and listen to a lovely recording.

    Just to put this into context for the gang, as someone who worked as a PhD-level molecular biologist in Biotech and 10 years as a Design for Six Sigma Master Black Belt, one of the challenges I personally dealt with was being "Cursed with the Blessing of Perfectionism", or likely more accurately "Blessed with the Curse of Perfectionism".

    And then...years later, when I started to understand the philosophy of "focus on what is PRACTICALLY SIGNIFICANT and do not obsess over what may only be "statistically significant", because most of the time (80-85% of the time), all that MATTERS, in the real world, where we all live, is what is...PRACTICALLY SIGNIFICANT. Is that last little bit, that last little 10-15% really that important? Well, sometimes it is, but most of the time, 80-85% of the time...it isn't.

    So, I've just..."let it go", and adopted Hans Beekhuyzen's philosophy: "Enjoy the music."

    In many ways, this is consistent with the Philosophy of Stoicism, which I personally resonate with.

    Apologies for the philosophical digression, but my thought is Dave would agree with me on this.

    Cheers, guys.
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Stephen, now you understand, 'with age comes wisdom' !

    Well said and yes, I concur !
    Cheers ! …. Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    Stephen, now you understand, 'with age comes wisdom' !

    Well said and yes, I concur !
    Yes, it does. The irony is, Dave, as you well know, is we have to "suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune*" to get to that point in life where we finally obtain some wisdom.

    * - William Shakespeare, Hamlet
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    That is just false information. I started with a HEOS, then the Node, thena NAD M50.2 and now my ACS10. The M50.2 was better than the first two by a lot but the ACS10 is better than all of them by a large amount. Unless you have experience comparing you should refrain from misguiding people. All of the mentioned I just used digital out. The was also a large improvement when going from a printer USB cable to the AQ, large enough if you couldn't hear it you shouldn't be spending large money on high end gear.

    If you gave me all my money back for the Aurender and any of the prior units for free I wouldn't do it, not even a consideration. I don't know why some of you persist in talking so much crap.
    It seems that we have had different experiences with streamers. That’s ok.
    I can only go on my personal experience, and that has been that I hear zero difference in the streamers I have auditioned in my system. That includes the Cambridge MXN-10, Aurrender N20, HiFi Rose RS-250A, Auralic Aries G1.1, Sonora micro rendu 1.5. Not an exhaustive list but quite a few streamers at different price points and functionality. DAC’s were Benchmark DAC3 HGC and Schiit Yggdrasil. No difference in sound. I have spent a bunch of time and thought optimizing what goes into my streamers with ultra low noise power, and optical break and USB isolation.

    It’s like my experience with HiFi tuning fuses - no difference there either.

    It’s unlike my experience with USB and power cables. Some significant improvements there.

    Since neither you or I have any verifiable objective data to cite, it’s all opinion about our experiences. They are different.
    Tom

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    Talking Re: Streamer selection

    Duplicate

  45. #45
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    Re: Streamer selection

    i hear differences between streamers, the power supplies and the chassis material is audiable.

    A good streamer is a wise thing to invest in and they are absolutely not all the same.

  46. #46

    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    It seems that we have had different experiences with streamers. That’s ok.
    I can only go on my personal experience, and that has been that I hear zero difference in the streamers I have auditioned in my system. That includes the Cambridge MXN-10, Aurrender N20, HiFi Rose RS-250A, Auralic Aries G1.1, Sonora micro rendu 1.5. Not an exhaustive list but quite a few streamers at different price points and functionality. DAC’s were Benchmark DAC3 HGC and Schiit Yggdrasil. No difference in sound. I have spent a bunch of time and thought optimizing what goes into my streamers with ultra low noise power, and optical break and USB isolation.

    It’s like my experience with HiFi tuning fuses - no difference there either.

    It’s unlike my experience with USB and power cables. Some significant improvements there.

    Since neither you or I have any verifiable objective data to cite, it’s all opinion about our experiences. They are different.
    Your response was incredibly polite and measured. Very impressive!.
    Since you indicated that you do not have objective data to prove your point that bit-perfect streamers do not make a difference, here is one objective review to prove it:
    Archimago's Musings: Do bit-perfect digital sources affect a USB DAC's sound quality? [2023 Edition - phone, Raspberry Pi, MiniPC, laptop]

  47. #47
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by NewAlkyogre View Post
    i hear differences between streamers, the power supplies and the chassis material is audible.
    Yes, so do I. The power supplies in particular can have a notable effect, as well as low- and high-source leakage impedance current. And, this carries over to Ethernet switches and routers, as well. The negative influence of leakage current and the concomitant threshold jitter are principle reasons why John Swenson implemented a "moat" in EtherREGEN.

    The clocking systems also have a notable impact on audio quality as do the Ethernet and USB cables. For those that also support optical fiber connections, the optical transceivers and optical cable also can influence audio quality.

    Lastly, one of the biggest culprits is ground-plane noise. Connecting your streamer, Ethernet switch, router to an Altaira CG hub or Gemini GP-NR system to reduce ground-plane noise will make the impact of ground-plane noise very clearly audible. The impact and influence of this class of noise is often more audible with "digital-domain-only" devices (music servers, routers, Ethernet switches, FMCs, network bridges, and streamers, etc.) than with quasi-digital (DACs) and analog amplification devices such preamps and amps, etc.
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  48. #48
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    Re: Streamer selection

    I have an Eversolo DMP-A6 in my garage system and it absolutely blows me away how good it looks and sounds for under $1,000. And the company is constantly issuing firmware updates. I have a WiiM Pro Plus in my bedroom for headphone listening when I am getting ready to hit the hay for the night. Also an amazing product which I’d highly recommend. I use Roon on both devices. Does it sound as good as my Lumin X1 did before I sold it when I purchased my Dutch & Dutch 8C active speakers (they are a Roon endpoint and have built-in DACs)? Probably not. Can I really hear a huge difference between the A6 and something that retails for around 15x its price? Perhaps a marginal difference but is it a night and day difference? No it isn’t.
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    Re: Streamer selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    But unless you are willing to experiment with third party apps then that eliminates everything from your list except Eversolo and WiiM. If dealing with third party apps is ok then the best of the ones I've tried while avoiding Roon is JPlay for IOS at $50 a year. At the moment it does Tidal and Qobuz and has it's own Roon Radio style function. Internet radio is coming soon.
    The other third party possibility is Volumio. Nowadays it is also possible to install it on normal computers, which makes great possibilities to make a computer streamer with that software and to my opinion: it does sound as good as roon does, while the pricing is cheaper, until cd quality even free.

    The only thing I never took this is that I have a Roon lifetime subscription.

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    Re: Streamer selection

    Interesting thread to follow. Lots of options at many price-points.
    One real simple way to "get one's feet wet," might be to plug a laptop (if available) into a DAC.
    Not the best SQ but it will make the point for little output.

    Of particular interest (as a long retired industrial arts teacher) however is Tom's (AKA W9TR) solution.
    With his technical background and expertise a simple, complete low cost device was put together featuring plenty of computing power, several linear PS's and noise filtration.
    All self designed and assembled holding up to commercially available products at a fraction of the cost. Certainly his stellar sound system would have revealed discrepancies.

    While a project of this level is beyond my head, I salute the DIY spirit; so very well, precisely and humbly excuted.

    John
    AKA J2Ordan
    McIntosh/Legacy/VPI/Bricasti/DIYCabling

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