Streamer selection
- Thread starter Mikado463
- Start date
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Stephen, now you understand, 'with age comes wisdom' !
Well said and yes, I concur !
Yes, it does. The irony is, Dave, as you well know, is we have to "suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune*" to get to that point in life where we finally obtain some wisdom.
* - William Shakespeare, Hamlet
W9TR
Member
It seems that we have had different experiences with streamers. That’s ok.
I can only go on my personal experience, and that has been that I hear zero difference in the streamers I have auditioned in my system. That includes the Cambridge MXN-10, Aurrender N20, HiFi Rose RS-250A, Auralic Aries G1.1, Sonora micro rendu 1.5. Not an exhaustive list but quite a few streamers at different price points and functionality. DAC’s were Benchmark DAC3 HGC and Schiit Yggdrasil. No difference in sound. I have spent a bunch of time and thought optimizing what goes into my streamers with ultra low noise power, and optical break and USB isolation.
It’s like my experience with HiFi tuning fuses - no difference there either.
It’s unlike my experience with USB and power cables. Some significant improvements there.
Since neither you or I have any verifiable objective data to cite, it’s all opinion about our experiences. They are different.
W9TR
Member
Duplicate
NewAlkyogre
Member
i hear differences between streamers, the power supplies and the chassis material is audiable.
A good streamer is a wise thing to invest in and they are absolutely not all the same.
A good streamer is a wise thing to invest in and they are absolutely not all the same.
Your response was incredibly polite and measured. Very impressive!.
Since you indicated that you do not have objective data to prove your point that bit-perfect streamers do not make a difference, here is one objective review to prove it:
Archimago's Musings: Do bit-perfect digital sources affect a USB DAC's sound quality? [2023 Edition - phone, Raspberry Pi, MiniPC, laptop]
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Yes, so do I. The power supplies in particular can have a notable effect, as well as low- and high-source leakage impedance current. And, this carries over to Ethernet switches and routers, as well. The negative influence of leakage current and the concomitant threshold jitter are principle reasons why John Swenson implemented a "moat" in EtherREGEN.
The clocking systems also have a notable impact on audio quality as do the Ethernet and USB cables. For those that also support optical fiber connections, the optical transceivers and optical cable also can influence audio quality.
Lastly, one of the biggest culprits is ground-plane noise. Connecting your streamer, Ethernet switch, router to an Altaira CG hub or Gemini GP-NR system to reduce ground-plane noise will make the impact of ground-plane noise very clearly audible. The impact and influence of this class of noise is often more audible with "digital-domain-only" devices (music servers, routers, Ethernet switches, FMCs, network bridges, and streamers, etc.) than with quasi-digital (DACs) and analog amplification devices such preamps and amps, etc.
RDSChicago
Member
I have an Eversolo DMP-A6 in my garage system and it absolutely blows me away how good it looks and sounds for under $1,000. And the company is constantly issuing firmware updates. I have a WiiM Pro Plus in my bedroom for headphone listening when I am getting ready to hit the hay for the night. Also an amazing product which I’d highly recommend. I use Roon on both devices. Does it sound as good as my Lumin X1 did before I sold it when I purchased my Dutch & Dutch 8C active speakers (they are a Roon endpoint and have built-in DACs)? Probably not. Can I really hear a huge difference between the A6 and something that retails for around 15x its price? Perhaps a marginal difference but is it a night and day difference? No it isn’t.
NewAlkyogre
Member
The other third party possibility is Volumio. Nowadays it is also possible to install it on normal computers, which makes great possibilities to make a computer streamer with that software and to my opinion: it does sound as good as roon does, while the pricing is cheaper, until cd quality even free.
The only thing I never took this is that I have a Roon lifetime subscription.
JohnJ
Member
Interesting thread to follow. Lots of options at many price-points.
One real simple way to "get one's feet wet," might be to plug a laptop (if available) into a DAC.
Not the best SQ but it will make the point for little output.
Of particular interest (as a long retired industrial arts teacher) however is Tom's (AKA W9TR) solution.
With his technical background and expertise a simple, complete low cost device was put together featuring plenty of computing power, several linear PS's and noise filtration.
All self designed and assembled holding up to commercially available products at a fraction of the cost. Certainly his stellar sound system would have revealed discrepancies.
While a project of this level is beyond my head, I salute the DIY spirit; so very well, precisely and humbly excuted.
John
One real simple way to "get one's feet wet," might be to plug a laptop (if available) into a DAC.
Not the best SQ but it will make the point for little output.
Of particular interest (as a long retired industrial arts teacher) however is Tom's (AKA W9TR) solution.
With his technical background and expertise a simple, complete low cost device was put together featuring plenty of computing power, several linear PS's and noise filtration.
All self designed and assembled holding up to commercially available products at a fraction of the cost. Certainly his stellar sound system would have revealed discrepancies.
While a project of this level is beyond my head, I salute the DIY spirit; so very well, precisely and humbly excuted.
John
NewAlkyogre
Member
Computing power is bad for the sound. Computing power must be enough to get its streaming job done. Not more.
- Thread Author
- #52
Gents, just returning to the thread after an incredible two week trip to Switzerland. Those that have been know what I mean and those that have not, "Book it Danno' ! I think I listened to Kenny Burell's 'All Day Long, All Night Long' three times on the flight over, great recording.
So now I intend to get myself re-focused on my streamer plans. At this point I'm kinda leaning towards the Eversolo since my son has it and he will effectively be my 'support'. Will see what transpires in the coming weeks .......
So now I intend to get myself re-focused on my streamer plans. At this point I'm kinda leaning towards the Eversolo since my son has it and he will effectively be my 'support'. Will see what transpires in the coming weeks .......
Mr Peabody
Active member
Your reasoning makes perfect sense. Future Audiophile just released a review on the Orchard Audio Pecan Pie, FWIW the reviewer did review both the Pie and M6
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Cool. Welcome, back, Dave. Personally, I'm kinda hoping you'll get the Eversolo DMP-A6 because I'm also very intrigued by it. I think it would make for an excellent "all-in-one" digital streaming system when combined with a nice little power amp. In my case, I'd pair the Eversolo with my little all Class-A Nelson Pass-designed Amp Camp amps, running as bridged monos (couple pics of them shown below). These are pretty amazing little amps, and you can buy them as a kit for about $360/each from DIY Audio. I updated mine with Vishay metal film resistors and larger, audio-grade electrolytic caps based on a mod written up by one of the EE's at DIY Audio forum.
The little "ACAs" side-by-side...
In my older rack, lower left, connected to the Lumin P1 functioning as streamer/DAC/premp. These are some pretty sweet amps, and running as bridged monos, put out 15 Wpc of pure Class A power.
As such, their classic Pass slightly "warmish" tonal qualities would likely pair very nicely with the DMP-A6.
Cheers, mate.
- Thread Author
- #55
Stephen, nice set up !! My son, a PE, is a big fan of DIY Pass Labs topology and is currently building a large pair of Class A mono-blocks. I'll try and post a pick if I can, regardless, I'll keep all updated of my 'streamer quest' !
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Thanks, Dave, looking forward to how this project goes forward.
Would also love to see any pics of the amps your son builds up. Personally, I've always been a big fan of DIY audio. I have a friend that's in SFAS that built a up a Pass power amp; IIRC, it was the F5 or F6 amp when Nelson released the circuit topology once he moved on to the F7 series of First Watt amps. Personally, I'd love to get a SIT3 sometime...
Cheers!
brad225
Active member
Listening to that pair of recordings 3 times will entertain you for almost 2 hours of a long flight. We are talking about that for a future vacation. Please post some pics somewhere Dave.
I ran errands all morning. Got home and fixed a toilet.
Now I am listening to All Day Long & All Night Long. Great songs, never heard them before. Thanks.
- Thread Author
- #58
Here's a pic of my son's kit, the big boy on the floor is one of his DIY builds, 100w stereo driving his JBL's. His mono block project is coming down the home stretch.
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- Thread Author
- #59
Hi Brad, once I get my pics sorted out I'll do that. By all means, Switzerland is worth the trip !!
Time to pay attention to what your son recommends. In the worst case scenario, you will at least create goodwill!