Standalone DACs under $10k?

**Mike** · January 8, 2021, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Mike you and this forum are very special and very much appreciated. This is by far the best forum I have ever encountered. Yes I admit I get my dander up sometimes, but I do try to put both logic and thought behind what I post. I also try extremely hard to always have respect and consideration in my posts (and for the most part I have been successful in this endeavor). I do apologies for the times I have been derailed but that has never ever been to have any negative affect on this amazing forum you run (pretty dam good audio seller also

).

Thank you. I get a little irked when someone calls my baby ugly. I’ve tried to stay out a little of the conversations because I’m far more interested in learning what YOU guys think. For example, I learned a lot on the public pricing thread that I can take to the manufacturers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

**Randy Myers** · January 8, 2021, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by mep

I thought your computer power supply is a SMPS.

MEP, if you know of something better that would work properly with my computer I am open for suggestions. I am never closed off to at least hearing suggestions. Weather they will be something I am interested in, for whatever reason, does not mean I would not be appreciative of hearing about it. What I meant by that statement is I bought the best that I am aware of that would work properly with my computer. A gold standard power supply has always been considered a very good thing in a high end computer.

Thank you for any good information that you may have.

**Randy Myers** · January 8, 2021, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

I get a little irked when someone calls my baby ugly.

Your baby is not ugly... she is cute as a button

.

**rbbert** · January 8, 2021, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Seriously? I work hard to build and promote my forum.

Unfucking believable.

I think you misunderstood my post. Turn it around 180 degrees please, and realize that my post was strongly supportive of this forum

**Kingrex** · January 8, 2021, 12:13 PM

I think he was saying he likes your forum as the topics are less myopic and stale.

**mep** · January 8, 2021, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

MEP, if you know of something better that would work properly with my computer I am open for suggestions. I am never closed off to at least hearing suggestions. Weather they will be something I am interested in, for whatever reason, does not mean I would not be appreciative of hearing about it. What I meant by that statement is I bought the best that I am aware of that would work properly with my computer. A gold standard power supply has always been considered a very good thing in a high end computer.

Thank you for any good information that you may have.

Is your current SMPS a standard ATX type and by standard I mean it has all of the regular voltages an ATX SMPS does? If the answer is yes, there are numerous linear power supplies available. I have no experience with any of them so I can't tell you how good or bad they are.

**Mike** · January 8, 2021, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by rbbert

I think you misunderstood my post. Turn it around 180 degrees please, and realize that my post was strongly supportive of this forum

Ok, my apologies. All good.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

**2FlyingYorkies** · January 8, 2021, 02:31 PM

Gosh, a guy gets busy with work for a couple of days, and the thread blows up!

I do appreciate the discussion and options presented. Agree that the T+A is a special piece in that it requires "other" equipment to perform at its absolute best. An excellent choice for some, but just not the path I want to go down for now - sort of like I don't think I want to move towards a tube DAC. Doesn't make them bad or wrong; I'm just one of those folks that tends to prefer a slightly analytic DAC (I hesitate to say "accurate" for fear of starting another war) over one with a more euphoric sound. Maybe it's the engineer in me, who knows?

At any rate, I've take plenty of notes from this thread and the few others that were mentioned along the way, and will start doing some more in depth research. Hopefully I'll be able to find a way to actually hear some of these pieces in person...the last component I bought without an audition is the one I'm currently thinking about replacing!

**Randy Myers** · January 8, 2021, 03:04 PM

Hey Jeff,

One that might be worth considering, and it is about a third of your stated budget, would be Benchmark. I have owned a couple of theirs including the current top model. Also my friend who writes for Stereophile swears by them. They are very analytic sounding. All of their gear definitely leans this way. They are also rather popular in the professional end of the business. They are built in Syracuse, NY, if that matters at all to you.

I thought they were excellent units just not my personal cup of tea. I always referred to the sound as more clinical, others refers to as them extremely "accurate".

Just another food for thought for you. I am also sorry if any of my posts derailed this thread you started in any way.

**Alkyogre** · January 8, 2021, 06:39 PM

and with this way there will be no good recommendation at all. Everyone likes his own dac. But that is also very reasonable, there are so many dacs. I cannot imagine that anyone have all these modern dacs in his house. For instance, the Denafrips Terminator earlier mentioned is available from a webshop in Singapore, that is one dac, nobody has so many different dacs like these in his shop, house or whereever. And to make it more complicated, those dacs have multiple settings. Then you can have 2 dacs A & B, A is better then B, but what happends if A and B are changed with a great LPS? Is A still better then B? Who did listened to all those dacs with all different settings and different power supplies?

About that T+A dac, works great with Dsd, take that for granted, but I listen to Tidal and Qobuz, which are PCM and for that reason I will prefer a dac which does PCM well, not DSD

**Randy Myers** · January 9, 2021, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Alkyogre

I listen to Tidal and Qobuz, which are PCM and for that reason I will prefer a dac which does PCM well, not DSD

One is not mutually exclusive to the other of course, and while some really specialize in one others do both well. The Yaggy and Benchmark for example really do only PCM (yes I know Benchmark can do DSD, but only 64 and they state they really do not care about it). I believe Berkeley does only PCM?

Yes T+A created their own very special DSD circuit. That does not mean they do not do PCM well. The same holds true with Lampi for example. One funny story as a follow up. One of the best reviews done on the DAC was by a reviewer who only runs PCM. I know this because he is a friend of mine and he does not do DSD (he uses a Meridian server that is not capable of DSD). He did mention in the review that he understands that the company has a very special DSD circuit. With PCM alone he gave it an A+ rating and it remains on their very very short list of A+ DACs to this day.

**Kingrex** · January 9, 2021, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Alkyogre

and with this way there will be no good recommendation at all. Everyone likes his own dac. But that is also very reasonable, there are so many dacs. I cannot imagine that anyone have all these modern dacs in his house. For instance, the Denafrips Terminator earlier mentioned is available from a webshop in Singapore, that is one dac, nobody has so many different dacs like these in his shop, house or whereever. And to make it more complicated, those dacs have multiple settings. Then you can have 2 dacs A & B, A is better then B, but what happends if A and B are changed with a great LPS? Is A still better then B? Who did listened to all those dacs with all different settings and different power supplies?

About that T+A dac, works great with Dsd, take that for granted, but I listen to Tidal and Qobuz, which are PCM and for that reason I will prefer a dac which does PCM well, not DSD

I am actually burned out on any thread like this. You are absolutely right. No one knows anything but what they know. And what they know is maybe 1% or less of what is out there.

I think threads on how to get the most out of what you already have are much more useful. Cabling, isolation, feet. Spock has a good thread on the importance of fine tuning. There are some good DIY threads on footers and stands. So much more valuable a topic.

**rbbert** · January 10, 2021, 10:46 PM

The thing is there is no easy way to find out what products are even available in a given price range, much less which might be worth considering further. A dealer can certainly help, but most dealers, like posters here, are likely to push their own products.

**2FlyingYorkies** · January 10, 2021, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by rbbert

The thing is there is no easy way to find out what products are even available in a given price range, much less which might be worth considering further.

There's some truth to that statement. I learn not just of new pieces, but entire audio product brands that I didn't know existed almost every week. The proliferation of boutique brands has really taken off lately. It's times like this that the old Audio magazine phonebook-style annual product guide was useful, even if you did have to be careful to avoid the offerings from Lirpa Labs. I'm showing my age here, aren't I?

**Jack** · January 10, 2021, 11:34 PM

Jeff

While I am happy with my Aqua La Voce S3, which is a different sound than the tube included La Scala, if I was looking in the range you are looking in I would look first at the Denafrips Terminator Plus or the Holo May. If I were willing to go to the top of your range then the new MA-3 might be worth a look but it also includes the streamer which uses the same software as the Bridge in your DS Jr.

**Devg** · January 11, 2021, 12:03 AM

I have owned the Denafrips Terminator for a while and have listened to it on almost everyday basis. So I know the sound very well. It has a very smooth & fuller sound with good amount of layering and depth, tons of bass details, excellent midrange. While I have not personally owned the new Terminator+ (some close buddies have), the + takes the sound of Terminator and adds more details, air and 3d. Depending on the rest of your system, some might not like the added details, while in more somber system the T+ might be the ticket.

The other advantage of T+ is the addition of Gaia DDC which add further improvements to the sound. The Gaia can be clocked off the T+ OCXO and does provide additional isolation if you have a noisy USB source.

Just thought of adding some notes....

**raba** · May 9, 2021, 06:00 AM

Good evening gentlemen,
I am new to this platform and so this is the first thread I was reading on a topic that interests me atm.
But i must admit that I feel a bit confused (due to lack of knowledge) and intimidated.
I am looking for an upgrade to my Weiss DAC202, which I used until recently with a MAC MINI and Firewire to connect to my Amp.
Now with my new NUC Windows I can't use Firewire anymore. ((Currently I am now using HDMI from NUC to my TV and then Optical to DAC202. This limites me to 48KHz.))
Before reading this thread I was actually considering the Weiss DAC 501, EMM Meitner DAC3 or DAC1 V2, T+A dac8.
In this context, what is the advantage of having a "separate" steamer (like in the DAC3) if you can get TIDAL etc via computer and if you can safe your CDs on your computer?
I hope these questions are not too ignorant and would be glad if I could get some hints.
Thanks in advance!

**brodricj** · May 9, 2021, 06:04 AM

I've settled on the single box solution for simplicity. I have the Esoteric streamer which is excellent. There is a new entry level model Esoteric N-05XD with pre-amp and headphone output which I have no doubt will be outstanding.

**BlueFox** · May 9, 2021, 06:23 AM

I too have gone to a single box solution. For me I have settled on the Lumin X1 File Player. I have ripped my CDs, and download new music from HDTracks.

**exupgh12** · May 9, 2021, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by 2FlyingYorkies

Sure, I have some DSD albums too, and the PS Audio converts everything to DSD before doin the D/A conversion, regardless of original format. But how would a system like mine go from a Tidal streaming PCM/FLAC format to DSD512 without a PC in the mix? Genuinely curious, as I thought a high horsepower computer was needed for such things. I looked at the T+A back when I got the PS, and the extra hardware to extract max performance was a factor at the time.

Cary Audio DAC's (DMS) convert any format or upsample to any format\upsample on the fly - no need computer. other manufactures can do the same.
from my experience converting files to DSD, even DSD512 does not always yell the best result as playing native.

**ADCO** · June 9, 2021, 04:55 PM

No ugly babies here I’d say....

Attempting to keep with the OP I seriously can’t believe that Metrum Acoustics Pavane L3 (and Adagio) have not been thrown in the mix

I have had some amazingly high priced dacs through here and landed on the Pavane L3, now further upgraded with the DAC 3 chips just launched.

Spectacular and competes with anything and easily in the price range.

AMR DP 777se
Aqua la Scala , latest
Bricasti M1
Nyquest
Weiss

Are just what went through here in the last calendar year....in my system... to my preference .... the Metrum bested them all.

R2R NOS with a very very good power supply .

Metrum had a business hiccup but are back at it full tilt now with the original designer back at the helm.

To further the bliss as I did you can run Ethernet to their Roon end point ( the Amber) and then i2S from there to the dac

Economical , and incredible sonics

**KeithR** · June 9, 2021, 05:23 PM

I think the Bricasti M3 looks super interesting sub-$10k.

The MSB Discrete is really quite a bit more as you need the renderer and extra power supply. If someone is looking for a used Premier with mono stock PS, I know where one can be found

**Randy Myers** · June 9, 2021, 06:18 PM

As a follow up, an audio club friend who owns an amazing system. MBL pre-amp, 2x MBL mono blocks, just recently upgraded MBL to higher end version speakers, ARC Ref 10 phono stage, etc.... just as a reference.

He does not up sample and honestly only uses his DAC for SACD playback. He owned (still owns) a dCS systems, which is very nice indeed. He recently purchased a pre-owned higher level model T+A spinner/DAC. He is blown away at how much better the T+A is than his dCS, again not using it for other digital sources though, just playing his SACDs. The T+A cost him less than 1/3 of what he paid for the dCS.

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