Thread: Roon and HQ Player

It looks as if Roon is going to be requiring updating to HQ Player 4. So far I have held off and have continued using version 3 because I could not find any viable reason to move to version 4. Also I purchased my license just before version 4 was announced and released almost immediately afterwards. I asked a few times if there was a performance improvement with version 4 over 3. The answer was always no, not really. Maybe this has changed???

"Roon
Upcoming changes to HQPlayer support
On Monday, February 28, Roon will be updated to take advantage of the advanced features offered in HQPlayer 4.x. Updating our implementation to support the HQPlayer 4 API will help to resolve a number of issues that our customers have been reporting.

What should you do?

In conjunction with Signalyst we have worked to improve the overall user experience in Roon's HQ Player integration. As such, version 4.16.2 of HQ Player will be required once the release has been deployed on Monday.

If you're not yet updated to HQPlayer 4.16.2, you can download it from the Signalyst website. If you run into any trouble upgrading, contact Signalyst at info@signalyst.com.

Many thanks,

The Roon Team"

I purchased HQPlayer version 4. Roon and HQPlayer have me hooked. It took a bit to get it up and running, configurations have changed a bit .

Anyway, I'm ready for the Roon update.

I do up-sample everything to DSD512x48. I did notice many more filters but have not tried any yet. Sometimes the sheer number of choices gets a bit overwhelming.

I was just reading in Roon forums. It sounds like the decision was made to require HQPlayer 4.16.1+ because these kinds of issues are being addressed, but they had to require a certain level of software because there were too many coding differences is older versions.

This may a bit off-topic but I always thought the Roon HQ Player relationship is kind of weird. I pay for a Roon subscription but to make it sound good I have to buy a plug-in from this jamoke in Europe for another $260, and, apparently, it doesn’t play well with the Linux Roon Core I’ve got running in a NUC10. Really? I’m not saying it doesn’t sound better, far from it, people seem to love HQPlayer, but it adds a layer of complexity to what is an already complex SW package.

Roon has over 30 engineers and testers, why can’t they come up with a best-in-class player?

Originally Posted by W9TR

Roon has over 30 engineers and testers, why can’t they come up with a best-in-class player?

No, they can’t. But HQPlayer isn’t a best-in-class player either. It’s a real-time DSP engine that is best-in-class in terms of the number of filters it offers. The designer, Jussi, has said that he doesn’t want people to use his player as a pass through. To him it’s all about the processing.

I am thankful that Roon had kept HQPlayer integration in the product. There are some DSP options in Roon so clearly they were able to come up with something for those who don’t want to pay extra for HQPlayer.

Originally Posted by W9TR

I pay for a Roon subscription but to make it sound good I have to buy a plug-in from this jamoke in Europe for another $260

It’s actually more about bringing out the best from a DAC. The filters in HQPlayer can sound better than the filters included in many DACs.

I pretty much find filters and settings that I like and leave it there. I do not experiment and fiddle with settings much.

Roon, by itself is pretty darn good. Their up-sampling works well, and of course their meta data, organization, etc., etc. are second to none. HQPlayer is specialized software that many people and certainly all of their large user base feel is the best playback engine available. Therefore, I use Roon as my controller, meta data provider, etc., and then have Roon hand off the signal to HQPlayer as the playback engine. Do you have to do this to get a wonderful experience from Roon? No, of course not. But I feel HQPlayer does improve the SQ and to me it is worth it.

I think it is absolutely amazing that Roon realized, sometime ago, that HQPlayer is fantastic and not a threat to them at all. It is in fact a wonderful enhancement to their software. They therefore built the connection internally within Roon and appear to have worked hand in hand the HQPlayer to solve issues and improve the quality when both packages are used in unison.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Do you have to do this to get a wonderful experience from Roon? No, of course not. But I feel HQPlayer does improve the SQ and to me it is worth it.

I think it is absolutely amazing that Roon realized, sometime ago, that HQPlayer is fantastic and not a threat to them at all. It is in fact a wonderful enhancement to their software. They therefore built the connection internally within Roon and appear to have worked hand in hand the HQPlayer to solve issues and improve the quality when both packages are used in unison.

I would say that there was a point in Roon’s history where offloading playback to either HQPlayer or Squeeze was a must. I regularly use Squeeze and it’s purity and transparency can make it more difficult to flip over to Roon as it makes Roon’s warts more obvious. I think if one never strays from Roon they can be oblivious to that. For the first six months of owning my K30, I avoid anything other than Roon as the K30 lifted the sound quality of Roon so much over what I heard with my Innuos Zenith that I didn’t want to spoil it for myself.

I love Roon for music discovery so I do occasionally make use of it when I’m in that mode. I just really wish I could make it my only player.

Originally Posted by kennyb123

I love Roon for music discovery so I do occasionally make use of it when I’m in that mode. I just really wish I could make it my only player.

I made Roon and HQPlayer my only playback setup years ago and have not looked back. It works so well for me that I am not at all curious whatsoever about what else might be out there.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I made Roon and HQPlayer my only playback setup years ago and have not looked back. It works so well for me that I am not at all curious whatsoever about what else might be out there.

I'm really glad you are happy with it. I love what Roon has to offer to musical discovery. Nothing comes close.

HQPlayer certainly takes some initial setup, but after that seems to always work perfect for me. I think you should try Windows again. I have never used Linux with Roon and HQPlayer, but I heard it is a lot finickier. To be expected with open-source software. Designed by and for the software DYIer.

Originally Posted by Alkyogre

I will give this with windows instead of linux a second chance once, but I hate it when this piece of software is that complicated, the manuals are unreadable, stability is poor and support is given by one person.

There’s an HQPlayer thread on Audiophile Style. I’ve received some assistance there.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I have never used Linux with Roon and HQPlayer, but I heard it is a lot finickier. To be expected with open-source software. Designed by and for the software DYIer.

HQPlayer Embedded runs on my server that runs Linux and it runs flawlessly. It’s not open-source but you are right that it is designed for those more inclined to go with DIY solutions.

Originally Posted by Alkyogre

Diy is not the problem. In linux installation of roon and hqplayer is easy. The problem is that there are no solutions when something stops working. You cannot reinstall hqplayer and roon. It does not solve the problem. And what happends with the license, when reinstalling the whole OS? Is it gone?

And why doesn't HQPlayer work anymore? It feels like fixing a flat bike tyre, while something sharp is still inside.

I never said that DIY was the problem.

If the hardware fingerprint changes, Jussi will issue a new license at no charge.

I don't understand "stops working". HQPlayer has a log that provides insight into what's going on. Jussi and others can help troubleshoot based on the log entries. Reinstalling should be a last resort. Better to try to understand the root cause.

There are also several threads on Roon's community site about HQPlayer. Questions get answered very quickly and Jussi does participate.

I have no idea what you mean about "stops working". HQPlayer may require settings to get its best, but once setup it has never "stops working" for me, other than once when there was an update to Roon. That was figured out fairly quickly and that was the old version of HQPlayer, long after v4 was released.

Also, you can indeed reinstall both Roon and HQPlayer (and Windows for that matter) with your original license key. I have done this before without issue. I have in fact moved to a new server box and all of my licenses work just fine.

Also, if you are using Linux, in any flavor, it is in fact open source. That is exactly the reason that most people who use Linux are using it.

I certainly understand that when things don't work correct getting frustrated and posting. I do ask that if someone wants assistance, they would be better served by posting what is happening, instead of "stops working". It may very well actually not be HQPlayer that stopped working, but instead a flavor of open-source software, OS or otherwise (my experience is that if someone uses open-source OS they are probably "playing" with other open-source products), or a computer issue, a connection issue, etc., for that matter.

Originally Posted by kennyb123

No, they can’t. But HQPlayer isn’t a best-in-class player either. It’s a real-time DSP engine that is best-in-class in terms of the number of filters it offers. The designer, Jussi, has said that he doesn’t want people to use his player as a pass through. To him it’s all about the processing.

Just curious - if HQ Player isn't a best-in-class player, then what is?

Originally Posted by W9TR

Just curious - if HQ Player isn't a best-in-class player, then what is?

...in my experience Roon -> HQPlayer is indeed the best-in-class player; but of course, that is probably just me .

Originally Posted by Alkyogre

To be clear about stopped working: I was simply listening to music on hqplayer and it stopped.

Sounds like it might have been in trial mode.

Originally Posted by Alkyogre

For me linux sounds pretty well by the way.

I never questioned Linux sound quality. I know a lot of people use it and like it, I simply have never had a reason to try it .

Originally Posted by W9TR

Just curious - if HQ Player isn't a best-in-class player, then what is?

For me to call it a best-in-class player, it would have to have the best sound quality. Squeezelite easily sounds more transparent than HQPlayer - and it's not subtle. Squeezelite sounds far better than Roon too. So it gets my vote for best-in-class player.

Jussi refuses to provide HQPlayer with a pure passthrough that has no added processing as he doesn't want his product used that way. I think that's because he hasn't tried to optimize it to sound the best when just simply passing the data on. That's unfortunate.

Squeezelite can't be used on its own. It is just a player. LMS is needed to provide library management features. The best-in-class library management application is Roon. Nothing else comes close.

Roon has it's own player, but it can also stream to either HQPlayer or Squeeze and allow them to take over as the player. Both sound better than Roon's own player, but neither sound as good when paired with Roon as they do when standalone.

Obviously, the entire process is important. A playback engine and the user interface are both important. User experience has a hands down winner in my view, and that is Roon. HQPlayer can actually be used on its own, however it is best to use a good GUI tool like Roon. Not familiar with Squeezelite, but it cannot be used on its own, it is 100% dependent on other GUI tools such as Roon.

HQPlayer is designed around its filters and up-sampling capability. If it were simply a pass through, then I could see no value in using it. I would simply use Roon by itself, which is actually very acceptable (read pretty darn good) on its own.

Squeezelite appears to be, from my short research, from Logitech and it appears that it was mainly intent on the open-source community, linux etc. Yes, there is a Windows version... info seems a bit sketchy. Not sure if it does up-sampling or DSD for that matter. I simply could not find the info on a quick search this morning. It may very well be out there, but those links were not abundantly obvious. I am not sure it is supported any more. I did find one article that stated it has not been developed since 2016... but not sure that is accurate or not.

Let's just say it in not mainstream like Roon and HQPlayer are and leave it at that.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

HQPlayer is designed around its filters and up-sampling capability. If it were simply a pass through, then I could see no value in using it. I would simply use Roon by itself, which is actually very acceptable (read pretty darn good) on its own.

Squeezelite appears to be, from my short research, from Logitech and it appears that it was mainly intent on the open-source community, linux etc. Yes, there is a Windows version... info seems a bit sketchy. Not sure if it does up-sampling or DSD for that matter. I simply could not find the info on a quick search this morning. It may very well be out there, but those links were not abundantly obvious. I am not sure it is supported any more. I did find one article that stated it has not been developed since 2016... but not sure that is accurate or not.

Let's just say it in not mainstream like Roon and HQPlayer are and leave it at that.

I was asked to give my opinion and I did. I’m not trying to engage in a competition. I have the ability to run Roon, HQPlayer, LMS/Squeezlite and MinimServer/MPD on my Antipodes server and can switch between each with a single click. So my opinion is based on actually using each and listening to each.

I was also careful to say that I was only speaking about the “player”. These are applications. HQPlayer is a DSP engine plus a player plus a library manager. If we are assessing the best-in-class application the the entire package should be assessed. These aren’t all apples to apples so I think it’s important to clarify what it is that we are talking about.

HQPlayer is by far the best-in-class DSP engine, as I’ve already stated. Not everyone needs this, but Roon and Squeezelite also provide the ability to upscale. Their DSP engines aren’t as good, but they do the job.

Yes Squeezelite is open source. It’s actually used commonly in purpose-built music servers. Both Innuos and Antipodes include it as an option, as do many others. By that measure I consider it mainstream. Purpose-built servers tend to sound better - and in some cases a heck of a lot better than this same software running on a general-purpose computer. The harm done by using a general purpose computer might not allow one to hear differences in these players. It’s exactly why HQPlayer recommends using an NAA.

My point about pass through is that the only way to assess the players sound quality is to hear how they each sound without applying any processing. I can accomplish this with every other player except HQPlayer. I mentioned that as it’s important to note caveats. What I can do with Roon is assess the transparency of their DSP engine simply by turning it on and off with a DSP configured. Most users including myself have found that the DSP degrades sound quality. I can’t do this same comparison with HQPlayer as DSP is always turned on.

Originally Posted by kennyb123

I was asked to give my opinion and I did. I’m not trying to engage in a competition.

Certainly not engaging in competition, just sharing information. I would say we are on the same page, pretty much.

Thanks for the info, very helpful.

IME trying many of the usual suspects HQplayer is the best player out there in terms of sonics. For me - I do no upsampling, no filters and it's the most natural / best. ROON handing off to HQPlayer is very good. HQPlayer stand - alone is outstanding. Drag in a song via Windows or remote control via HQPDcontrol (I know it's clunky) is unbeatable (again IME).

Always been interested in HQPlayer but had until recently been using an Ethernet DLNA connection to my Bricasti DAC. With the recent addition of an Antipodes K50, I am now using its AES/EBU output and can now run HQPlayer. My question is - perhaps to Kenny - if I am not going to do any upsampling, does ROON/HQ Player provide any SQ advantage over ROON/Squeeze?
TIA
Craig

Antipodes have told me not to bother with HQPlayer if I didn’t intend to do any upsampling.

Originally Posted by crwilli

My question is - perhaps to Kenny - if I am not going to do any upsampling, does ROON/HQ Player provide any SQ advantage over ROON/Squeeze?
TIA
Craig

No, not to my ears. But Roon/Squeeze is limited to 192K and DSD64. Since you are using AES, I’m not sure that matters.

That is what Mark at Antipodes said to me as well.

Originally Posted by crwilli

Antipodes have told me not to bother with HQPlayer if I didn’t intend to do any upsampling.

It depends on your intended use case. For example, if you want to stream you can do so via HQPlayer Client app which does not require ROON. Depending on your system and network setup this can yield the best streaming in terms of sonics versus ROON -> HQplayer or ROON -> Squeezebox.