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  1. #1
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    Roon and HQ Player

    It looks as if Roon is going to be requiring updating to HQ Player 4. So far I have held off and have continued using version 3 because I could not find any viable reason to move to version 4. Also I purchased my license just before version 4 was announced and released almost immediately afterwards. I asked a few times if there was a performance improvement with version 4 over 3. The answer was always no, not really. Maybe this has changed???

    "Roon
    Upcoming changes to HQPlayer support
    On Monday, February 28, Roon will be updated to take advantage of the advanced features offered in HQPlayer 4.x. Updating our implementation to support the HQPlayer 4 API will help to resolve a number of issues that our customers have been reporting.

    What should you do?

    In conjunction with Signalyst we have worked to improve the overall user experience in Roon's HQ Player integration. As such, version 4.16.2 of HQ Player will be required once the release has been deployed on Monday.

    If you're not yet updated to HQPlayer 4.16.2, you can download it from the Signalyst website. If you run into any trouble upgrading, contact Signalyst at info@signalyst.com.

    Many thanks,

    The Roon Team"
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  2. #2
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    yeah, I got the same mail in the morning. Looks like Roon is getting there act slowly together with the sound quality. Their latest update has been very good with the SQ.

  3. #3
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    I purchased HQPlayer version 4. Roon and HQPlayer have me hooked. It took a bit to get it up and running, configurations have changed a bit .

    Anyway, I'm ready for the Roon update.
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  4. #4
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    If you are up-sampling, you will find hqp4 thrilling...lots of good filters/dither to choose from.

  5. #5
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    I do up-sample everything to DSD512x48. I did notice many more filters but have not tried any yet. Sometimes the sheer number of choices gets a bit overwhelming.
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  6. #6

    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    I....
    "Roon
    Upcoming changes to HQPlayer support
    On Monday, February 28, Roon will be updated to take advantage of the advanced features offered in HQPlayer 4.x. Updating our implementation to support the HQPlayer 4 API will help to resolve a number of issues that our customers have been reporting.

    ....
    Randy, one of the issues experienced by users of HQP4 was that when switching from one type of file to another sometimes a few seconds of the the end of track was cut. The developer of HQP (Jussi) and the tech folks at Roon had been working on a fix for that. My guess is that this will likely be one of the items that are being corrected.

    BTW, one advantage of HQ4 is that it allows you to use multiple sources (inputs) which is not possible with HQP3.

  7. #7
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    I was just reading in Roon forums. It sounds like the decision was made to require HQPlayer 4.16.1+ because these kinds of issues are being addressed, but they had to require a certain level of software because there were too many coding differences is older versions.
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  8. #8

    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    The link below leads to a review of HQ Player 4. It includes a very good discussion of phase filters available in HQP4.

    Archimago's Musings: Using the MeLE Mini PC for Upsampling/Filtering - HQPlayer Desktop 4 streaming from Roon. [Going forward, AVX2 needed for HQPlayer + Roon... For some reason.]

  9. #9
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    This may a bit off-topic but I always thought the Roon HQ Player relationship is kind of weird. I pay for a Roon subscription but to make it sound good I have to buy a plug-in from this jamoke in Europe for another $260, and, apparently, it doesn’t play well with the Linux Roon Core I’ve got running in a NUC10. Really? I’m not saying it doesn’t sound better, far from it, people seem to love HQPlayer, but it adds a layer of complexity to what is an already complex SW package.

    Roon has over 30 engineers and testers, why can’t they come up with a best-in-class player?
    Tom

    Audio:
    Amati Futura Mains
    Amati Homage VOX Center,
    Proac Response 1sc Rears,
    Three MC2301's for L,C,R
    MC 602 for the rears
    C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
    Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
    SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

    Video:
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  10. #10
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    Roon has over 30 engineers and testers, why can’t they come up with a best-in-class player?
    No, they can’t. But HQPlayer isn’t a best-in-class player either. It’s a real-time DSP engine that is best-in-class in terms of the number of filters it offers. The designer, Jussi, has said that he doesn’t want people to use his player as a pass through. To him it’s all about the processing.

    I am thankful that Roon had kept HQPlayer integration in the product. There are some DSP options in Roon so clearly they were able to come up with something for those who don’t want to pay extra for HQPlayer.

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    I pay for a Roon subscription but to make it sound good I have to buy a plug-in from this jamoke in Europe for another $260
    It’s actually more about bringing out the best from a DAC. The filters in HQPlayer can sound better than the filters included in many DACs.
    Digital: Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC
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    Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps

  11. #11
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    I pretty much find filters and settings that I like and leave it there. I do not experiment and fiddle with settings much.

    Roon, by itself is pretty darn good. Their up-sampling works well, and of course their meta data, organization, etc., etc. are second to none. HQPlayer is specialized software that many people and certainly all of their large user base feel is the best playback engine available. Therefore, I use Roon as my controller, meta data provider, etc., and then have Roon hand off the signal to HQPlayer as the playback engine. Do you have to do this to get a wonderful experience from Roon? No, of course not. But I feel HQPlayer does improve the SQ and to me it is worth it.

    I think it is absolutely amazing that Roon realized, sometime ago, that HQPlayer is fantastic and not a threat to them at all. It is in fact a wonderful enhancement to their software. They therefore built the connection internally within Roon and appear to have worked hand in hand the HQPlayer to solve issues and improve the quality when both packages are used in unison.
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
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  12. #12
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Do you have to do this to get a wonderful experience from Roon? No, of course not. But I feel HQPlayer does improve the SQ and to me it is worth it.

    I think it is absolutely amazing that Roon realized, sometime ago, that HQPlayer is fantastic and not a threat to them at all. It is in fact a wonderful enhancement to their software. They therefore built the connection internally within Roon and appear to have worked hand in hand the HQPlayer to solve issues and improve the quality when both packages are used in unison.
    I would say that there was a point in Roon’s history where offloading playback to either HQPlayer or Squeeze was a must. I regularly use Squeeze and it’s purity and transparency can make it more difficult to flip over to Roon as it makes Roon’s warts more obvious. I think if one never strays from Roon they can be oblivious to that. For the first six months of owning my K30, I avoid anything other than Roon as the K30 lifted the sound quality of Roon so much over what I heard with my Innuos Zenith that I didn’t want to spoil it for myself.

    I love Roon for music discovery so I do occasionally make use of it when I’m in that mode. I just really wish I could make it my only player.
    Digital: Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC
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    Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps

  13. #13
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by kennyb123 View Post
    I love Roon for music discovery so I do occasionally make use of it when I’m in that mode. I just really wish I could make it my only player.
    I made Roon and HQPlayer my only playback setup years ago and have not looked back. It works so well for me that I am not at all curious whatsoever about what else might be out there.
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  14. #14
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    I made Roon and HQPlayer my only playback setup years ago and have not looked back. It works so well for me that I am not at all curious whatsoever about what else might be out there.
    I'm really glad you are happy with it. I love what Roon has to offer to musical discovery. Nothing comes close.
    Digital: Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC
    Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T
    Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps

  15. #15
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    My experience with hqplayer isn't great. Suddenly hqplayer stopped playing and gave no idea why. Went back to roon and in my opinion, it sounded better.

    For me it is complex material, but it makes me really pissed when everything works fine and while listening everything is messed up without a clear reason. And I record my core temperature and cpu usage and they are both fine.

    I will give this with windows instead of linux a second chance once, but I hate it when this piece of software is that complicated, the manuals are unreadable, stability is poor and support is given by one person.
    speakers: Bach He2S
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    Running Roon GUI on a fanless intel 8i5 Linux Nuc with akasa turing case
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  16. #16
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    HQPlayer certainly takes some initial setup, but after that seems to always work perfect for me. I think you should try Windows again. I have never used Linux with Roon and HQPlayer, but I heard it is a lot finickier. To be expected with open-source software. Designed by and for the software DYIer.
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  17. #17
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkyogre View Post
    I will give this with windows instead of linux a second chance once, but I hate it when this piece of software is that complicated, the manuals are unreadable, stability is poor and support is given by one person.
    There’s an HQPlayer thread on Audiophile Style. I’ve received some assistance there.
    Digital: Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC
    Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T
    Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps

  18. #18
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    I have never used Linux with Roon and HQPlayer, but I heard it is a lot finickier. To be expected with open-source software. Designed by and for the software DYIer.
    HQPlayer Embedded runs on my server that runs Linux and it runs flawlessly. It’s not open-source but you are right that it is designed for those more inclined to go with DIY solutions.
    Digital: Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC
    Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T
    Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps

  19. #19
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by kennyb123 View Post
    HQPlayer Embedded runs on my server that runs Linux and it runs flawlessly. It’s not open-source but you are right that it is designed for those more inclined to go with DIY solutions.
    Diy is not the problem. In linux installation of roon and hqplayer is easy. The problem is that there are no solutions when something stops working. You cannot reinstall hqplayer and roon. It does not solve the problem. And what happends with the license, when reinstalling the whole OS? Is it gone?

    And why doesn't HQPlayer work anymore? It feels like fixing a flat bike tyre, while something sharp is still inside.
    speakers: Bach He2S
    stands: isoacoustics aperta
    preamplifier: Bryston BP 25
    amplifier: Hypex ncore 500 mono blocks
    Dac: Denafrips Ares ii via USB
    Digital to Digital converter: Singxer SU-6
    power filter: Bach power filter
    Running Roon GUI on a fanless intel 8i5 Linux Nuc with akasa turing case
    network audioswitch: Silent Angel Bonn n8

  20. #20
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkyogre View Post
    Diy is not the problem. In linux installation of roon and hqplayer is easy. The problem is that there are no solutions when something stops working. You cannot reinstall hqplayer and roon. It does not solve the problem. And what happends with the license, when reinstalling the whole OS? Is it gone?

    And why doesn't HQPlayer work anymore? It feels like fixing a flat bike tyre, while something sharp is still inside.
    I never said that DIY was the problem.

    If the hardware fingerprint changes, Jussi will issue a new license at no charge.

    I don't understand "stops working". HQPlayer has a log that provides insight into what's going on. Jussi and others can help troubleshoot based on the log entries. Reinstalling should be a last resort. Better to try to understand the root cause.
    Digital: Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC
    Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T
    Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps

  21. #21
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    There are also several threads on Roon's community site about HQPlayer. Questions get answered very quickly and Jussi does participate.

    I have no idea what you mean about "stops working". HQPlayer may require settings to get its best, but once setup it has never "stops working" for me, other than once when there was an update to Roon. That was figured out fairly quickly and that was the old version of HQPlayer, long after v4 was released.

    Also, you can indeed reinstall both Roon and HQPlayer (and Windows for that matter) with your original license key. I have done this before without issue. I have in fact moved to a new server box and all of my licenses work just fine.

    Also, if you are using Linux, in any flavor, it is in fact open source. That is exactly the reason that most people who use Linux are using it.

    I certainly understand that when things don't work correct getting frustrated and posting. I do ask that if someone wants assistance, they would be better served by posting what is happening, instead of "stops working". It may very well actually not be HQPlayer that stopped working, but instead a flavor of open-source software, OS or otherwise (my experience is that if someone uses open-source OS they are probably "playing" with other open-source products), or a computer issue, a connection issue, etc., for that matter.
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  22. #22
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by kennyb123 View Post
    No, they can’t. But HQPlayer isn’t a best-in-class player either. It’s a real-time DSP engine that is best-in-class in terms of the number of filters it offers. The designer, Jussi, has said that he doesn’t want people to use his player as a pass through. To him it’s all about the processing.
    Just curious - if HQ Player isn't a best-in-class player, then what is?
    Tom

    Audio:
    Amati Futura Mains
    Amati Homage VOX Center,
    Proac Response 1sc Rears,
    Three MC2301's for L,C,R
    MC 602 for the rears
    C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
    Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
    SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

    Video:
    MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

    Lake House:
    Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3

    OnDeck:
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  23. #23
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    Just curious - if HQ Player isn't a best-in-class player, then what is?
    ...in my experience Roon -> HQPlayer is indeed the best-in-class player; but of course, that is probably just me .
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  24. #24
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    To be clear about stopped working: I was simply listening to music on hqplayer and it stopped.

    But anyway I will give reinstall it on the same machine with Windows as OS.

    I don’t know if it is true, there are opinions that the windows wasapi/asio driver sounds better then linux alsa, so i will give it a try on that first, especially when using audiophile optimizer.

    For me linux sounds pretty well by the way.

  25. #25
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkyogre View Post
    To be clear about stopped working: I was simply listening to music on hqplayer and it stopped.
    Sounds like it might have been in trial mode.
    Digital: Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC
    Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T
    Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps

  26. #26
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkyogre View Post
    For me linux sounds pretty well by the way.
    I never questioned Linux sound quality. I know a lot of people use it and like it, I simply have never had a reason to try it .
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
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  27. #27
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    I never questioned Linux sound quality. I know a lot of people use it and like it, I simply have never had a reason to try it .
    Me neither, a few of these high end pc buiders have doubts about that linux alsa driver, interesting background about these things at jcats forum: jplay.eu are all of these settings explained, and I know from another high end builder, who used to do everthing on linux went to windows.

    What confuses me, linux sounds for my ears pretty ok. And the nucleus, roon rock, euphony stylus,all use that alsa driver. And to think further: streamers are also a kind of computer. What kind of software and driver do they use?
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  28. #28
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    Just curious - if HQ Player isn't a best-in-class player, then what is?
    For me to call it a best-in-class player, it would have to have the best sound quality. Squeezelite easily sounds more transparent than HQPlayer - and it's not subtle. Squeezelite sounds far better than Roon too. So it gets my vote for best-in-class player.

    Jussi refuses to provide HQPlayer with a pure passthrough that has no added processing as he doesn't want his product used that way. I think that's because he hasn't tried to optimize it to sound the best when just simply passing the data on. That's unfortunate.

    Squeezelite can't be used on its own. It is just a player. LMS is needed to provide library management features. The best-in-class library management application is Roon. Nothing else comes close.

    Roon has it's own player, but it can also stream to either HQPlayer or Squeeze and allow them to take over as the player. Both sound better than Roon's own player, but neither sound as good when paired with Roon as they do when standalone.
    Digital: Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC
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  29. #29
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Obviously, the entire process is important. A playback engine and the user interface are both important. User experience has a hands down winner in my view, and that is Roon. HQPlayer can actually be used on its own, however it is best to use a good GUI tool like Roon. Not familiar with Squeezelite, but it cannot be used on its own, it is 100% dependent on other GUI tools such as Roon.

    HQPlayer is designed around its filters and up-sampling capability. If it were simply a pass through, then I could see no value in using it. I would simply use Roon by itself, which is actually very acceptable (read pretty darn good) on its own.

    Squeezelite appears to be, from my short research, from Logitech and it appears that it was mainly intent on the open-source community, linux etc. Yes, there is a Windows version... info seems a bit sketchy. Not sure if it does up-sampling or DSD for that matter. I simply could not find the info on a quick search this morning. It may very well be out there, but those links were not abundantly obvious. I am not sure it is supported any more. I did find one article that stated it has not been developed since 2016... but not sure that is accurate or not.

    Let's just say it in not mainstream like Roon and HQPlayer are and leave it at that.
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

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  30. #30
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    HQPlayer is designed around its filters and up-sampling capability. If it were simply a pass through, then I could see no value in using it. I would simply use Roon by itself, which is actually very acceptable (read pretty darn good) on its own.

    Squeezelite appears to be, from my short research, from Logitech and it appears that it was mainly intent on the open-source community, linux etc. Yes, there is a Windows version... info seems a bit sketchy. Not sure if it does up-sampling or DSD for that matter. I simply could not find the info on a quick search this morning. It may very well be out there, but those links were not abundantly obvious. I am not sure it is supported any more. I did find one article that stated it has not been developed since 2016... but not sure that is accurate or not.

    Let's just say it in not mainstream like Roon and HQPlayer are and leave it at that.
    I was asked to give my opinion and I did. I’m not trying to engage in a competition. I have the ability to run Roon, HQPlayer, LMS/Squeezlite and MinimServer/MPD on my Antipodes server and can switch between each with a single click. So my opinion is based on actually using each and listening to each.

    I was also careful to say that I was only speaking about the “player”. These are applications. HQPlayer is a DSP engine plus a player plus a library manager. If we are assessing the best-in-class application the the entire package should be assessed. These aren’t all apples to apples so I think it’s important to clarify what it is that we are talking about.

    HQPlayer is by far the best-in-class DSP engine, as I’ve already stated. Not everyone needs this, but Roon and Squeezelite also provide the ability to upscale. Their DSP engines aren’t as good, but they do the job.

    Yes Squeezelite is open source. It’s actually used commonly in purpose-built music servers. Both Innuos and Antipodes include it as an option, as do many others. By that measure I consider it mainstream. Purpose-built servers tend to sound better - and in some cases a heck of a lot better than this same software running on a general-purpose computer. The harm done by using a general purpose computer might not allow one to hear differences in these players. It’s exactly why HQPlayer recommends using an NAA.

    My point about pass through is that the only way to assess the players sound quality is to hear how they each sound without applying any processing. I can accomplish this with every other player except HQPlayer. I mentioned that as it’s important to note caveats. What I can do with Roon is assess the transparency of their DSP engine simply by turning it on and off with a DSP configured. Most users including myself have found that the DSP degrades sound quality. I can’t do this same comparison with HQPlayer as DSP is always turned on.
    Digital: Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC
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  31. #31
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by kennyb123 View Post
    I was asked to give my opinion and I did. I’m not trying to engage in a competition.
    Certainly not engaging in competition, just sharing information. I would say we are on the same page, pretty much.
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

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  32. #32
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Thanks for the info, very helpful.
    Tom

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  33. #33

    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    IME trying many of the usual suspects HQplayer is the best player out there in terms of sonics. For me - I do no upsampling, no filters and it's the most natural / best. ROON handing off to HQPlayer is very good. HQPlayer stand - alone is outstanding. Drag in a song via Windows or remote control via HQPDcontrol (I know it's clunky) is unbeatable (again IME).
    4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth Cs | Critical Mass Center Stage 2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris 6 rack | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room

  34. #34
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Always been interested in HQPlayer but had until recently been using an Ethernet DLNA connection to my Bricasti DAC. With the recent addition of an Antipodes K50, I am now using its AES/EBU output and can now run HQPlayer. My question is - perhaps to Kenny - if I am not going to do any upsampling, does ROON/HQ Player provide any SQ advantage over ROON/Squeeze?
    TIA
    Craig
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  35. #35

    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
    Always been interested in HQPlayer but had until recently been using an Ethernet DLNA connection to my Bricasti DAC. With the recent addition of an Antipodes K50, I am now using its AES/EBU output and can now run HQPlayer. My question is - perhaps to Kenny - if I am not going to do any upsampling, does ROON/HQ Player provide any SQ advantage over ROON/Squeeze?
    TIA
    Craig
    Both Roon and HQP can do upsampling. However, HQP has literally dozens of filters that you can chose from to listen to your music. Roon only has 3 or 4 filters from what I remember. Some filters work better with certain kind of music (jazz, classical, rock, etc.) so you can explore and pick what sounds best to you.

    Also, both Roon and HQP allow you to incorporate DSP files to make corrections to the speaker/room time/frequency response. IME, if used properly, that feature alone will give the listener the most bang for the buck.

  36. #36
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Antipodes have told me not to bother with HQPlayer if I didn’t intend to do any upsampling.
    Kharma Elegance dB11-S, Bricasti M21 DAC/PRE & M28 Mono Amplifiers, Antipodes K-50 Server, Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon) Modified Buffalo GS2016Switches with Keces P3 LPSU, Shunyata Denali 6000/S v2, Sigma XC V2, 3 X Alpha v2 NR PCs, ADDPowr Wizard and 2 X ElektraClear EAU, Nordost Valhalla 2 AES/EBU, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 Speaker cables, Silver Eclipse 7 ICs, Vicoustic, GIK & Stillpoint Room treatment, Stillpoint Minis and Ultra SS, Three dedicated 20 Amp lines w/Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona 5 Shelf rack

  37. #37
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
    My question is - perhaps to Kenny - if I am not going to do any upsampling, does ROON/HQ Player provide any SQ advantage over ROON/Squeeze?
    TIA
    Craig
    No, not to my ears. But Roon/Squeeze is limited to 192K and DSD64. Since you are using AES, I’m not sure that matters.
    Digital: Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC
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  38. #38
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    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    That is what Mark at Antipodes said to me as well.
    Kharma Elegance dB11-S, Bricasti M21 DAC/PRE & M28 Mono Amplifiers, Antipodes K-50 Server, Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon) Modified Buffalo GS2016Switches with Keces P3 LPSU, Shunyata Denali 6000/S v2, Sigma XC V2, 3 X Alpha v2 NR PCs, ADDPowr Wizard and 2 X ElektraClear EAU, Nordost Valhalla 2 AES/EBU, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 Speaker cables, Silver Eclipse 7 ICs, Vicoustic, GIK & Stillpoint Room treatment, Stillpoint Minis and Ultra SS, Three dedicated 20 Amp lines w/Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona 5 Shelf rack

  39. #39

    Re: Roon and HQ Player

    Quote Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
    Antipodes have told me not to bother with HQPlayer if I didn’t intend to do any upsampling.
    It depends on your intended use case. For example, if you want to stream you can do so via HQPlayer Client app which does not require ROON. Depending on your system and network setup this can yield the best streaming in terms of sonics versus ROON -> HQplayer or ROON -> Squeezebox.
    4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth Cs | Critical Mass Center Stage 2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris 6 rack | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room

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