Thread: Qobuz, Tidal, etc. claim another victim...

Is HDTracks next?

I saw that, and downloaded a ton of analogue productions dsd before midnight sounds great on my Esoteric N-01xd!

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I sure hope HDTracks stays in business. I stopped buying CDs and just use HDTracks.

Originally Posted by BlueFox

I sure hope HDTracks stays in business. I stopped buying CDs and just use HDTracks.

Better buy what you want soon before they are gone.

Originally Posted by BlueFox

I sure hope HDTracks stays in business. I stopped buying CDs and just use HDTracks.

Many artists got wise a d started selling a high res version. But I agree, I hope they stick around.


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My question would be: how can the digital download sites differentiate from
the streaming services and survive?

Unfortunately, Acoustic Sound/Analog Productions/Chad was their best bet: better digital, meaning, better provenance. For example, Chad has the abilities to do better digital copies of tapes. He could use a world class A2D converter like the ones from Merging Technologies and maybe employ some top Mastering Engineers as well.

Would I pay $30 for a digital version done with the best equipment and processes of DSOTM, Rumors or 1000’s of other albums? Hell yes.

Just compare Chad’s version of Tea for the Tillerman Vs any version on Tidal and Qobuz and you’ll be shocked.



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This is sad news. I hope HDTracks hangs in there.

Ken

I suspect a crack down will be coming against the streaming services in the future. Just like Napster got smacked down.

Originally Posted by BlueFox

I suspect a crack down will be coming against the streaming services in the future. Just like Napster got smacked down.

Napster got "smacked down" because they were illegally distributing copy righted music. You can't compare that to Tidal and Quobuz who have entered into legal music distribution deals

I think (based purely on supposition) that the AS download store was not a major player commercially, which is unfortunate. Odds are that at least QoBuz will continue to offer downloads, and I suspect at least a couple more will continue.

this is unfortunate ...i bought a number of my favorite titles in DSD format from them. no other place that i m aware of offer the variety of music in DSD that they did.

Originally Posted by mep

Napster got "smacked down" because they were illegally distributing copy righted music. You can't compare that to Tidal and Quobuz who have entered into legal music distribution deals

I totally agree, apples and oranges. The issue with Tidal is a financial one. They continue to pay most artists but some they do not pay, probably due to cash flow issues. The artists that catch up with them force them to remove their music from the service. Anyone with a Tidal playlist has witnessed this through the absence of numerous albums from the playlists they’ve created. Nevertheless, I continue to enjoy Tidal as a means to fill some gaps in my music collection.

Ken

Originally Posted by aKnyght

this is unfortunate ...i bought a number of my favorite titles in DSD format from them. no other place that i m aware of offer the variety of music in DSD that they did.

You raise a great point. This leaves a gap on Analogue Production’s substantial DSD catalog. I own a number of these in SACD format but I would have purchased the remainder as DSD downloads from Acoustic Sounds.

Ken

Each year streaming subscribers climb and downloads get lower. the 2020 numbers are not out yet, but 2019 shows just how big music streaming has become. Interesting on this basic US report ( cost $50 a month for a detailed report) that Tidal and Qobuz are not even listed since their customers base doesn't meet the top ten. Also a global account. IN all pretty much spells doom for some music downloads companies.

Chad clearly had built a better mousetrap when it came to digital downloads. The Analog Productions versions were far superior to anything you would find on Qobuz or Tidal. Just look at the effort that Chad’s team put into The Doors/The Doors:

“Mastered by Doug Sax using an all-tube system. Overseen by Bruce Botnick, The Doors producer/engineer.

Two 45 rpm LPs pressed on 200-gram vinyl at Quality Record Pressings/Also on Hybrid Multichannel SACD

Part of The Doors reissue series proudly presented by Analogue Productions and Quality Record Pressings!

The Doors self-titled 1967 release famously contains some incorrect speed and pitch issues. While there have been "corrected" versions made, in the interests of being historically accurate, this Analogue Productions reissue was cut without speed or pitch correction.”

This is far superior to any streaming version.

Of course we can still purchase these on SACD, but the download was quite convenient and immediate.

Originally Posted by nicoff

DSD downloads are a pain to download particularly if downloading greater than DSD64. Moreover, MOST of the albums sold as DSD were not recorded in high resolution; they were recorded in analog (tapes) or PCM.

If you like the ‘sound’ of DSD, using a computer and appropriate software, you can convert *ANY* music to DSD512 on the fly. At no extra cost other than using the proper equipment and software.

all of the DSD titles i have downloaded (mostly jazz titles) are analog tape recordings that have been digitized to SACD/DSD ...and, most if not all of those are from analog productions.

i also have a couple of DSD titles from HDTT (high definition tape transfers) which are similar in that they are 2 or 4 track open reel tapes that are digitized in DSD format, either 2x or 4x. i have been quite happy with the SQ of these files.

if available, if figure why not own files digitized directly to the the format that sounds best from my DAC.

...for all other files (downloaded or streamed) i convert to DSD512 via roon DSP before sending to my DAC.

Originally Posted by Alpinist

I totally agree, apples and oranges. The issue with Tidal is a financial one. They continue to pay most artists but some they do not pay, probably due to cash flow issues. The artists that catch up with them force them to remove their music from the service. Anyone with a Tidal playlist has witnessed this through the absence of numerous albums from the playlists they’ve created. Nevertheless, I continue to enjoy Tidal as a means to fill some gaps in my music collection.

Ken

I have subscriptions to both Tidal and Quobuz and I hope they both stay healthy. If one bites the dust, I hope it’s not Quobuz.

Originally Posted by mep

I have subscriptions to both Tidal and Quobuz and I hope they both stay healthy. If one bites the dust, I hope it’s not Quobuz.

Maybe I should consider switching from Tidal to Quobuz. How does Quobuz’s jazz catalog compare to Tidal’s? Jazz is mostly what I listen to these days.

Thanks,
Ken

Originally Posted by TheOctopus

The Truth About High-Resolution Audio: Facts, Fiction and Findings - Audiophile Review

Very interesting Serge.

I actually participated in his studies and quite frankly could not hear much of a difference between the standard and higher rez formats. We have to remember that his Hi-Rez stuff was actually recorded in Hi-Rez. Bottom line IMO is that if improvements are heard from various Hi-Rez formats it's more about the re-mixing/engineering than putting the same stuff in a bigger bag.

John

Originally Posted by CPP

Each year streaming subscribers climb and downloads get lower. the 2020 numbers are not out yet, but 2019 shows just how big music streaming has become. Interesting on this basic US report ( cost $50 a month for a detailed report) that Tidal and Qobuz are not even listed since their customers base doesn't meet the top ten. Also a global account. IN all pretty much spells doom for some music downloads companies.

Thanks for posting Chris!
Bottom line is most folks are more concerned with convenience than sound quality and listening from a Google or Alexis Mini speaker is just fine for them.
As someone once said to me, "it's not your system's sound but for $50 I'm half way there."
Well...

Originally Posted by TheOctopus

Tidal owner and genre bias is so deep into RAP music that if I had to place a bet on one vs the other, I'd have to go with the masses and say Tidal would win. Just by sheer volume of listeners. I prefer Qobuz but it caters to a smaller audience with its platform. Don't have the latest figures but Tidal had over 3 Million subscribers last year and Qobuz barely broke 200,000 last year.

Qobuz, well in the US its tiny. Hi-Res Streaming Service Qobuz Says Its Has 200,000 Global Paying Customers — 25,000 In the U.S. Qobuz Says Its Has 200,000 Paying Customers — 25,000 In the U.S..

Regarding Tidal: The company hasn’t released a subscriber count since 2016, when the number was only at three million. TIDAL Review 2020 | Is Hi-Fi Music Streaming Worth It?

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

Very strange that they didn't make a huge announcement about shutting down to give everyone a chance to buy....maybe they have a deal in place to sell all their IE......

I got an email announcement; I suspect everyone who has ever purchased an item from AS, download or physical media or even hardware, received an email. Of course it may have gone into your spam folder as a mass mailing?

Originally Posted by Calvin

Streaming will sooner or later be taken over by someone large like Amazon. When the monopoly takes over the prices will rise - esp. for top quality files like Qobuz.

Purchase media. In the long run it will be cheaper and better quality. By purchasing media you’ll always have music even if the internet goes down. IMO, there’s nothing like the real thing; i.e. vinyl and CDs.

Streaming is good for locating new artists, etc., but IMO it shouldn’t be a substitute for CDs and vinyl.

Perhaps another conversation would be, “Don’t real audiophiles own their own media?”

Amazon already has their own streaming platform.

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Maybe I should consider switching from Tidal to Quobuz. How does Quobuz’s jazz catalog compare to Tidal’s? Jazz is mostly what I listen to these days.

Thanks,
Ken

Ken-I pretty much stream 100% jazz and the selection on Quobuz is great.

Originally Posted by mep

Ken-I pretty much stream 100% jazz and the selection on Quobuz is great.

Thanks MEP, I really appreciate that information.

Best,
Ken

My biggest concern with becoming dependent on streaming is that what happens to music that we like that the service decides to stop streaming it due to low demand or licensing deal gone bad. When there are no longer high quality downloads available that music will be lost forever... at least in any quality which Apple Music is not ....

That said ... I don’t see much mention of Pro Studio Masters .... they have a decent dsd offering. Seems larger than HD Tracks on DSD for sure.

George

Originally Posted by Calvin

I use streaming to locate different artists I may be interested in. However, after listening if I like them then I will purchase a CD. Problem is I locate very few new artists that I'm interested in. .

Me to, and I said so somewhere else. But what I've found is some of the artists I like which I've discovered on Spotify are inhabiting Soundcloud and don't sell physical CD's. I did have one artist print me a copy burned to CD which they sent me for free.

I tried to buy downloads from Acoustic Sounds but their website refused to sell me any

I tried then to setup Qobuz, but I was prevented from even downloading the app.

I had to ask a (complete) stranger to help.
He got his brother who lives in the USA to register on my behalf after I transferred the money to the brother's bank.
I still couldn't download Qobuz app.
But both MControl and Roon allowed me to register into Qobuz.
So now, I am able to listen to some of the higher rez files from Qobuz.

So far, I like what I hear....

The one problem with having access to all these higher rez content is - when I play files with different sample rates alternatively, the subsequent track playback always exhibit some sort of sonic artifact (smaller soundstaging, unstable imaging, and a sense of unease, stress, tension, whatvever you call it), so much so that I have to play groups of the same sample rates together at a time. If I create a playlist, they all have to be of the same sample rates.

This problem isn't confined only just to the 2 EMM Labs Dacs that I have. I find that I can hear this problem through the Oppo 205 (roon enabled) and a few sound bars streaming Tidal. It looks like this might be an industry-wide problem

I am surprised nobody has ever pointed out this issue before....

Originally Posted by gadawg

My biggest concern with becoming dependent on streaming is that what happens to music that we like that the service decides to stop streaming it due to low demand or licensing deal gone bad. When there are no longer high quality downloads available that music will be lost forever... at least in any quality which Apple Music is not ....

That said ... I don’t see much mention of Pro Studio Masters .... they have a decent dsd offering. Seems larger than HD Tracks on DSD for sure.

George

That's why I kept all my LP's and CD' and downloads

Originally Posted by nicoff

Search the Roon Labs community forums and/or post your issue there. Sounds as if you have a set-up issue on your end.

I hear the same issue if I were to load those same files onto an USB stick and play them through the USB input of the OPPO 205 player or through the USB inputs of TV and Sound Bars.

It is not a roon problem.