Thread: Pondering high-end server for Roon over ethernet?

My current set-up has my Roon server (a Roon Nucleus with 2tb ssd) in the 'mechanical room' in my basement where my furnace and hot water is, where my Verizon fibre enters the home, and where all the home ethernet converges for connection to a switch.

I read a lot of reviews (in the press and on the forums) and get the impression that people find that servers REALLY matter when connected to dacs directly via usb.

I'm trying to figure out (short of a home listening test) what I might really expect from spending so much more than my Roon Nucleus, over home ethernet. And whether it'll be "worth it."

My streamer/player is the Naim ND555. And I have an Ansuz Power Switch (their hi fi switch) on my hi fi rack, between my wall RJ-45 jack and the Naim player. And we do really like Roon; I'd like to keep it, especially as it integrates Qobuz nicely with my own library of ~1900 albums on the server.

I don't HAVE to site the server in the mechanical room; it could be anywhere in the home on the network.

There are a lot of offerings between Taiko and the Roon Nucleus.

Originally Posted by Alkyogre

i just ordered the singxer audio su-6. It is a reclocker, puts all the ones and zero's back in time resulting in no jitter. The statement is that poor computer sources sound the same as great sources, with this USB reclocker connected. so in this setup I can remove the streamer out of my setup.

I use ethernet, and have no intention of abandoning my Naim streamer/player.

You may want to consider Antipodes Audio music servers. They can be used as a Roon core and as a server only and your Naim as the network player. Their S40 fits your requirements.

I run a system like yours. My Bricasti M12 is my Roon endpoint via Ethernet. I use an etherRegen to isolate, and reclock right before the streamer. I have tried various schemes:

NAS based Roon server (was a bit slow with my library)
Desk PC ( still use for control, but, have used it as server from time to time.)
NUC6 as Windows based Roon Server (ran a bit hot on this fanless NUC)
ROCK on the NUC6 (the NUC always required an external library, NAS/usb HD)
DIY custom build i5 fanless server (motherboard with second m.2 for music library)

I’m sure I have tin ears, but I have a pretty good system, but could not hear any differences in these different experiments.

Next up will be trying Euphonia on the NUC.

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Lumin makes a server, also, the L1. Judging by how good the P1 is, I would guess the L1 would be excellent as well.



I'll let ya guys know how good it is, as I'm being sent one here for review fairly soon.

Love the L1 - it's well built, sort of ingenious, good looking, easy to use and integrates fantastic with Lumin streamers - but as far as I'm aware that is just basically a NAS, and will only work with/be seen by a Lumin streamer. No?

Originally Posted by Bones13

I run a system like yours. My Bricasti M12 is my Roon endpoint via Ethernet. I use an etherRegen to isolate, and reclock right before the streamer. I have tried various schemes:

NAS based Roon server (was a bit slow with my library)
Desk PC ( still use for control, but, have used it as server from time to time.)
NUC6 as Windows based Roon Server (ran a bit hot on this fanless NUC)
ROCK on the NUC6 (the NUC always required an external library, NAS/usb HD)
DIY custom build i5 fanless server (motherboard with second m.2 for music library)

I’m sure I have tin ears, but I have a pretty good system, but could not hear any differences in these different experiments.

Next up will be trying Euphonia on the NUC.

I had a Sonic Transporter and when switching to the Roon Nucleus I too heard nothing different. They are both based on the NUC architecture and maybe proves that small hardware differences in my setup arent very relevant.

Originally Posted by Bart001

I had a Sonic Transporter and when switching to the Roon Nucleus I too heard nothing different. They are both based on the NUC architecture and maybe proves that small hardware differences in my setup arent very relevant.

I detected no difference between running ROCK on a NUC vs Roon Core on my laptop.

Originally Posted by Alkyogre

I think because you use Roon as server with a streamer in between. The way Roon advises.

The way high end computer builders use is the way to hook directly a dac to the pc, the way Roon does not advise. But if the pc is at very high quality, what Taiko does, then it makes sense to connect a dac directly to a computer. In that case a lot of preconditions need to be made

IIRC at the time I was going USB out from the ROCK/NUC to a PS Audio DAC, with a USB regen thing and Curious Cable Regen Link USB cable in between. From the laptop of course was over the network, then as well as current.

I love my Roon Nucleus Plus and think it sounds terrific with my MSB Select II DAC and Renderer V2 digital input module. My only issue is my Synology NAS, which performs flawlessly but is noisy due to its clunking and fan noise.

Can anyone recommend a SSD NAS that doesn’t have a fan or at least a silent one? I have a little over 8TB of music. If I had less than 4TB of music, I would just purchase the latest Roon Nucleus Plus, which offers 4TB of SSD storage and call it a day. Does anyone know if the latest Roon Nucleus Plus’ storage can be increased above 4TB? Any help on these issues would be greatly appreciated.

Ken

You can buy an 8 tb ssd SATA drive. Ask on the Roon forums if there is any issue using that in your Nuc +

Originally Posted by Alpinist

My only issue is my Synology NAS, which performs flawlessly but is noisy due to its clunking and fan noise.

Can anyone recommend a SSD NAS that doesn’t have a fan or at least a silent one?

The QNAP HS-453DX is fanless. With SSD like you're intending I suppose it would be silent. Only thing is it's kind of low-powered, no doubt in order to be fanless.

Have you tried modifying the fan settings on your Synology to quiet mode? That might help in the meantime.

What about Antipodes to run Roon Core? They used to have this horrible rep here in the US, but he’s gone and now the company seems more normal again. I had some really good talks with them. Seem like great folks. Not sure about their product yet as I came down with Covid right around the time we were going to evaluate things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I will be participating in an in-house demo of the Antipodes K-50 in the next month. Had a very brief demo of the K-40 and was impressed with its ease of use and solid credentials. The sound quality was too difficult to evaluate honestly as I was only able to test is as a DLNA server. No time to set up an internal drive or test the other outputs. My friend should have enough time to more deeply evaluate the K-50.

Originally Posted by NekoAudio

The QNAP HS-453DX is fanless. With SSD like you're intending I suppose it would be silent. Only thing is it's kind of low-powered, no doubt in order to be fanless.

Have you tried modifying the fan settings on your Synology to quiet mode? That might help in the meantime.

This SSD NAS looks really nice. Any idea what the maximum SSD storage is on this NAS?

Ken

Originally Posted by ICUToo

I have the Antipodes Audio K50.
Excellent.
Perfectly stable, quite fast, sounds terrific.
Can add your own SSDs up 24 Terabytes (!)
Fanless
Great support online and even via remote access
Best feature is it has multiple built-in server apps and several player apps, so you can use what you like. I use Roon server (incomparably smooth and excellent) with Squeeze player. Incredibly simple to setup - just tick boxes.

Have you tested various outputs? Can you share your experience if you have?

Originally Posted by Alpinist

This SSD NAS looks really nice. Any idea what the maximum SSD storage is on this NAS?

The largest SSD drive included in the HS-453DX compatibility list is 8TB at the moment, and you can put two of them inside. (That does not mean larger drives in the future won't work.)

Originally Posted by Alpinist

I have a little over 8TB of music. If I had less than 4TB of music, I would just purchase the latest Roon Nucleus Plus, which offers 4TB of SSD storage and call it a day. Does anyone know if the latest Roon Nucleus Plus’ storage can be increased above 4TB? Any help on these issues would be greatly appreciated.

Although not strictly necessary, you may determine whether your Nucleus Plus is Revision A or B.

Revision A allows the physical height of the internal 2.5" drive to be up to 9mm.
Revision B allows the physical height of the internal 2.5" drive to be up to 15mm.

I believe the Samsung 8TB 870 QVO is 7mm, thin enough to fit in either. (Please double check)

If you have more than 8TB of music, I believe you can plug in a USB drive to the Nucleus Plus as well. Roon Labs suggest you format the USB drive as exFAT.

Success report of 8TB in a Nucleus Plus:
What size SSD do you use for your Nucleus? - #15 by pscreed - Nucleus - Roon Labs Community

With this much music you also need to increase the RAM in the Nucleus Plus. (Regardless of whether the music is from internal drive, USB drive, or NAS.)

Another thing is the Nucleus Plus boot drive - hopefully it's not filled up. It's possible to replace it too but it's more difficult.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by wklie

The largest SSD drive included in the HS-453DX compatibility list is 8TB at the moment, and you can put two of them inside. (That does not mean larger drives in the future won't work.)

Thanks Neko and Peter for your responses. The QNAP HS-453DX appears to be the solution I am looking for. This would give me 16TB of SSD storage with a quiet fanless operation. I own the original Roon Nucleus Plus and it has no internal storage but works great with external storage on the NAS in my network. I don’t see the point in purchasing the new Nucleus Plus if it will only give me a maximum of 8TB of internal storage since I already have slightly over 8TB of music and will continue to add more.

Ken

Originally Posted by Alpinist

The QNAP HS-453DX appears to be the solution I am looking for. This would give me 16TB of SSD storage with a quiet fanless operation.

(8TB of music is a lot....)

You'll need to run it in RAID 0 mode for 16TB of storage, so no data reliability/redundancy. Two 8TB 2.5" drives in a RAID 1 configuration will only give you 8TB of usable space. You could get 16TB of RAID 5 capacity by adding an 8TB M.2 SSD drive, but that will be extremely expensive and probably hasn't been tested with the HS-453DX.

Since it is a NAS, is there any reason you don't want to locate it somewhere the fan noise isn't an issue, like in a different room? That way you can use something like RAID 5.

Originally Posted by NekoAudio

(8TB of music is a lot....)

You'll need to run it in RAID 0 mode for 16TB of storage, so no data reliability/redundancy.

As I think Neko is suggesting in there, I recommend against this. Just not a good idea unless you have a bullet proof backup arrangement. You could go the expensive route with multiple 8TB SSDs to achieve RAID5, or go with regular HDD drives and keep the NAS somewhere quiet. I keep mine in cabinet about 15' from my listening position and can't hear it. If your room is truly dead silent then sure maybe outside of the room.

I like SSD for other reasons beyond just achieving a fan-less NAS so that's the route I went on one NAS, and will replace the remaining HDD NAS with SSD when the time comes, likely with this: TS-364 | High-performance 3-bay RAID 5 2.5GbE NAS with M.2 SSD caching for running virtual machines and Qtier | QNAP (US)

Originally Posted by NekoAudio

(8TB of music is a lot....)

You'll need to run it in RAID 0 mode for 16TB of storage, so no data reliability/redundancy. Two 8TB 2.5" drives in a RAID 1 configuration will only give you 8TB of usable space. You could get 16TB of RAID 5 capacity by adding an 8TB M.2 SSD drive, but that will be extremely expensive and probably hasn't been tested with the HS-453DX.

Since it is a NAS, is there any reason you don't want to locate it somewhere the fan noise isn't an issue, like in a different room? That way you can use something like RAID 5.

There is no other place to put the Synology HDD NAS that will not cause problems. I do not have a basement to place it in. If I purchase the QNAP HS-453DX, I will add 16TB of SSD storage with no RAID mirror. The backup will be the Synology HDD NAS, which has 6 bays, 48TB of storage and is RAID configured. The Synology HDD NAS will be turned off during my listening sessions.

Ken

I would put a single 8TB SSD into your Nucleus and use your Synology as backup.

You can set it up so that it will power itself up and down only at a specific day/time to do the scheduled backup.

Originally Posted by Bart001

My current set-up has my Roon server (a Roon Nucleus with 2tb ssd) in the 'mechanical room' in my basement where my furnace and hot water is, where my Verizon fibre enters the home, and where all the home ethernet converges for connection to a switch.

I read a lot of reviews (in the press and on the forums) and get the impression that people find that servers REALLY matter when connected to dacs directly via usb.

I'm trying to figure out (short of a home listening test) what I might really expect from spending so much more than my Roon Nucleus, over home ethernet. And whether it'll be "worth it."

My streamer/player is the Naim ND555. And I have an Ansuz Power Switch (their hi fi switch) on my hi fi rack, between my wall RJ-45 jack and the Naim player. And we do really like Roon; I'd like to keep it, especially as it integrates Qobuz nicely with my own library of ~1900 albums on the server.

I don't HAVE to site the server in the mechanical room; it could be anywhere in the home on the network.

Save your money if you are connecting to your DAC via Ethernet. Type of server makes no difference (apart from how fast roon operates).

You can try to isolate your DAC from Ethernet by using solutions like Ethernet over fibre and etherRegen to get the last bit of performance from your DAC.

Originally Posted by Elberoth

I would put a single 8TB SSD into your Nucleus and use your Synology as backup.

You can set it up so that it will power itself up and down only at a specific day/time to do the scheduled backup.

Hi Adam,

Thanks for your advice but I already have slightly over 8TB of music and intend to continue expanding my music collection.

Ken