Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located? Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located? - Page 3
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  1. #21
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    Re: Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located?

    Do you have coaxial cable coming in to you home? Can you get that directly into your audio equipment location.
    If so, look at an ActionTec ECB2500C Bonded MoCA 2.0 Coax to Ethernet adapter.

    I only had coax that runs directly from the LNT box on the outside of the house. I really didn't want to convert the signal in the Frontier Router and run the signal via ethernet to my room.

    The ActionTec is connected to a modified NetGear network switch that is local to my music room equipment.

    This is not to say that when I use my iPad to control my music the router is not involved with the task. Just a direct connection between storage and player exists through the local switch.

    If I didn't understand your issue, sorry.
    Synology 1019D+ - SGC Sonictransporter I9 w Roon/HQ Player- UltraRendu- PBD Stream IF to Playback Designs MPS5 via fiber optic - ARC 40th Anniversary Pre - ARC 610 T's - Martin Logan CLX's - 4 Martin Logan Depth i Subs - Shunyata Hydra, IC's and PC's. Audio Quest Vodka CAT 7's. Acoustically treated room with one permanent chair.

  2. #22
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    Re: Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located?

    One of the best dedicated for audio switch - Silent Angel Bonn N8







    On market You can find licensed version of Bonn8 interiors - Omnia SW-8 produced by NuPrime (aluminum chassis and low noise power supply).
    Marcin

  3. #23
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    Re: Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located?

    Its performance is measured here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-switch.12360/

  4. #24
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    Re: Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Kars View Post
    The reviewer concluded:

    ďMeasurements conclusively prove what I explain above. That the Ethernet switch makes zero difference in the performance of a decent streamer.Ē

  5. #25
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    Re: Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located?

    I suggest listening and after that make conclusions, not before or just after lecture of someone else "poem". And remember - "Writing about Music Is like Dancing about Architecture" ;-)

    Marcin

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  7. #26
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    Re: Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located?

    As with many discussions around this topic (digital content streaming), there is conflicting info here.

    I've spent the last year researching, testing and implementing a robust "streaming" digital front end. By streaming I'm referring to digital music files resident on a hard drive attached to a music server or content provided via a streaming service, e.g. Qobuz, Tidal, etc.

    The result and attendant conclusions I've come to is: EVERYTHING matters and is audible.

    1) It's not just 1s and 0s. The data is transmitted as an analog square wave voltage and is as just such susceptible to the impacts of noise, e.g. RF and EMI, as any other analog signal from a music source (e.g. phono stage, tape deck, disc player, etc., etc.)

    2) Digital sources, while the data is in a "fully digital" domain (i.e., there not yet been an D/A conversion) is also particularly susceptible to ground plane noise, common mode noise, clock phase noise, and jitter.

    3) Digital sources and "data in the fully digital domain" are also particularly susceptible to high-source impedance leakage current. This leakage current is very hard to detect and test for, and requires bespoke test equipment. It was only discovered in Q4, 2017. The problem with high-source impedance leakage current is that has a significant impact on clock phase noise, which is audible.

    The bottom line here is that virtually everything in the digital streaming domain e.g. NAS, fiber media convertors, Ethernet switches, routers, music servers, and their power supplies and cables have an impact on the audio quality of playback from a digital streaming "front end". This includes USB cables, copper Ethernet cables, and the power supplies for these devices and their AC power cords.

    Other sources of problems are switch-mode power supplies, the cheap-assed clocks in "consumer-grade" digital devices (e.g. router, switches, and FMCs, etc), and Ethernet cables.

    Optical fiber has a big advantage over copper Ethernet for longer runs as it will not pass high-source impedance leakage current. More on the next post.

    More later where I will provide some references for review and component and cable recommendations.

    Meantime, please read this white paper by John Swenson: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/06...f?v=1583429386

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  9. #27
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    Re: Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    As with many discussions around this topic (digital content streaming), there is conflicting info here.

    I've spent the last year researching, testing and implementing a robust "streaming" digital front end. By streaming I'm referring to digital music files resident on a hard drive attached to a music server or content provided via a streaming service, e.g. Qobuz, Tidal, etc.

    The result and attendant conclusions I've come to is: EVERYTHING matters and is audible.

    1) It's not just 1s and 0s. The data is transmitted as an analog square wave voltage and is as just such susceptible to the impacts of noise, e.g. RF and EMI, as any other analog signal from a music source (e.g. phono stage, tape deck, disc player, etc., etc.)

    2) Digital sources, while the data is in a "fully digital" domain (i.e., there not yet been an D/A conversion) is also particularly susceptible to ground plane noise, common mode noise, clock phase noise, and jitter.

    3) Digital sources and "data in the fully digital domain" are also particularly susceptible to high-source impedance leakage current. This leakage current is very hard to detect and test for, and requires bespoke test equipment. It was only discovered in Q4, 2017. The problem with high-source impedance leakage current is that has a significant impact on clock phase noise, which is audible.

    The bottom line here is that virtually everything in the digital streaming domain e.g. NAS, fiber media convertors, Ethernet switches, routers, music servers, and their power supplies and cables have an impact on the audio quality of playback from a digital streaming "front end". This includes USB cables, copper Ethernet cables, and the power supplies for these devices and their AC power cords.

    Other sources of problems are switch-mode power supplies, the cheap-assed clocks in "consumer-grade" digital devices (e.g. router, switches, and FMCs, etc), and Ethernet cables.

    Optical fiber has a big advantage over copper Ethernet for longer runs as it will not pass high-source impedance leakage current. More on the next post.

    More later where I will provide some references for review and component and cable recommendations.

    Meantime, please read this white paper by John Swenson: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/06...f?v=1583429386
    Care to share the components that make up your system?
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  10. #28
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    Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located?

    My two cents:


    The best switch is NO SWITCH. And a CD/SACD playing the same album will still beat all this networking/streaming stuff all day long and letís not talk vinyl. Iíve run these test many many times.

    If you have a dedicated listening space and run a Cat6 (or better) cable from the router to that room, then you donít need a switch.

    Instead of all of these gizmoís, run two runs from the router - one for your computer/home theater crap or whatever you need in the same room as your audio system and one for your audio.

    We are really over complicating this situation. Information Technology IS MY BACKGROUND. 25 years.

    Ethernet filters like the Gigafoil can help filter out noise on the line coming from the PSU of the router/other devices on the network. And if you want to convert Ethernet to Fiber, fine. Iíve done it. The sound is different, but better?

    YMMV.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

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  12. #29
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    Re: Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    My two cents:


    The best switch is NO SWITCH. And a CD/SACD playing the same album will still beat all this networking/streaming stuff all day long and let’s not talk vinyl. I’ve run these test many many times.

    If you have a dedicated listening space and run a Cat6 (or better) cable from the router to that room, then you don’t need a switch.

    Instead of all of these gizmo’s, run two runs from the router - one for your computer/home theater crap or whatever you need in the same room as your audio system and one for your audio.

    We are really over complicating this situation. Information Technology IS MY BACKGROUND. 25 years.

    Ethernet filters like the Gigafoil can help filter out noise on the line coming from the PSU of the router/other devices on the network. And if you want to convert Ethernet to Fiber, fine. I’ve done it. The sound is different, but better?

    YMMV.
    Well, of course the best switch is no switch. Less components in any reproduction chain will improve overall performance. If we wanted to get "wild and crazy" we could all use batteries to power our components, too, and obviate the need for AC power distributors. But, that's not practical for many, and neither is not having the functionality and flexibility a switch provides.

    The facts are that different customers have different needs and therefore, different requirements. And guess what? Every customers needs/requirements are as VALID as anyone else's requirements. Solution providers (i.e., dealers/retailer) don't get to dictate or mandate customer requirements, customers do. Its up to solution providers to provide QUALITY and VALUE by best meeting their customer needs. This is basic VOC 101 (Voice of the Customer).

    For many customers, they prefer, want, and value the flexibility of a digital streaming front end. Personally, I have virtually no desire whatsoever to go back to flippin' CDs into a player when I can sit back and pull up content in Roon, from my 4TB music library or from Qobuz, as well as read the metadata that is available, or use Radio mode to discover new content. So, for some customers, like me, they may well require an Ethernet switch or fiber media convertors.

  13. #30
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    Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    Well, of course the best switch is no switch. Less components in any reproduction chain will improve overall performance. If we wanted to get "wild and crazy" we could all use batteries to power our components, too, and obviate the need for AC power distributors. But, that's not practical for many, and neither is not having the functionality and flexibility a switch provides.

    The facts are that different customers have different needs and therefore, different requirements. And guess what? Every customers needs/requirements are as VALID as anyone else's requirements. Solution providers don't get to dictate or mandate customer requirements, customers do. Its up to solution providers to provide QUALITY and VALUE by best meeting customer needs. This is basic VOC 101 (Voice of the Customer; I used teach and lead technical product design teams in VOC).


    For many customers that have the needs/requirements for a digital streaming front end, in their particular applications and systems, they require an Ethernet switch. Some require fiber media convetors as well.
    When people are buying these items who donít need them, thatís the problem. I have heard from so many customers with a single run from their router to their listening room and they are all in a big flap about these audiophile switches they keep hearing about. I have to keep telling them: the best switch is no switch!! Thatís the little tidbit of information all these part-time experts leave out.

    NONE mention: if you donít need a switch, donít use one and NONE mention the comparison vs the actual CD using the same DAC and
    NONE mention simply running two lines from the router.

    If in a worse case scenario, you canít make another Ethernet run, then a switch is required. I would recommend the QNAP, this model or similar: https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/qsw-1208-8c if they want a high end quality spec, quality built switch.

    Iím not a fan of this forum, but in this case they are bang on the money, and they have done many similar reviews of ďaudiophile switchesĒ:

    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-switch.12360/

    At the end of the day, in many cases, this stuff gets many people lost in a quagmire of confusion. Less is more.

    Again, if people are hearing big differences with switches, thatís fantastic. All the power to them. My point is simple: I need to be sure to communicate that no switch is the best switch and offer an option of running two lines from the router. Thatís all Iím saying.

    Again, YMMV.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Roon Labs, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stenheim Loudspeakers, Stillpoints, T+A Electronics, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
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