MSB Discrete Ordered...Now What?
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  1. #1
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    MSB Discrete Ordered...Now What?

    Iíve been concentrating so much on my choice for an integrated amp Iíve all but forgotten to learn about DACs and streamers and how they operate. Iíve ordered the best DAC/streamer I could afford. But I know nothing about DACs or streamers. I know that DAC stands for digital analog converter but I donít know what it does?

    I donít know what DSD stands for or does? I donít know what unsampling, sampling, bit depth, is or does. I donít know a bit from a byte or gigabyte. I donít know what a DAC or streamer does or how to get ďitĒ to do ďit ď.....whatever ďitĒ is? Itís embarrassing to admit all this. But, Iíll have to deal with it soon or I wonít be able to use my new system.

    I can learn all the digital/technical stuff just the same as anyone else. But where and/or how? Man, I hate this feeling. I know what DAC stands for but not what it really means. I know you have to have it for streaming. But thatís about the extent of my knowledge. How can I begin to learn this stuff? YouTube? References? Wikipedia?

    Iíve just purchased a top shelf piece of equipment but donít know how to use it. Iím an old analog guy. I grew up in the Ď50s, not the Ď80s or Ď90s. Whatís the best way to begin my quest for information? Please...no chastising. I feel stupid enough.

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  3. #2
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    Re: MSB Discrete Ordered...Now What?

    Congratulations!

    I’m so jealous. Can’t wait until you hook up that bad boy.
    Joe

    Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M, JBL 590.

    Job INTegrated, Naim Supernait 2 w/ HiCap-DR.

    Conrad Johnson GAT2, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2, Misho Myronov Wooden pre.

    Misho Myronov Wooden amp, First Watt SIT-3 (X2 - one as backup), Job 250 Monos, Valvet E2se, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos.

    Lumin U1 mini, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES, Audio Mirror Tubadour III NOS R2R Tube Dac w/ upgrades.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  4. #3
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    Re: MSB Discrete Ordered...Now What?

    Not to worry. DSD is a type of music format. PCM is the most popular and common type of format. The DAC takes a digital signal and converts it to analog so you can listen. In your setup, we are running Roon. You will use an iPad to control your music.

    This is the setup you heard in the store and loved.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones & Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MIT Cables, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Roon Labs, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stenheim Loudspeakers, Stillpoints, T+A Electronics, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  5. #4
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    Re: MSB Discrete Ordered...Now What?

    Congratulation on a great piece of equipment. You can't go too wrong by watching and learning from a series from Hans Beekhuyzen.

    Speakers: Magico A3
    Subs: SVS1000 (2)
    Amp: Bryston 4BSST
    Preamp: NAD M12
    CD/DVD: Oppo 205
    Music Streamer: Lumin T2
    Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running Tital and Quobuz with iPad Pro
    TV: Samsung Q90R 65"
    AudioQuest 1000 line conditions (2), Monster HTS5000 (SVS subs)
    Keces P3 powering GigaFoilv4,Modem
    Power cords: Cardas Clear Beyond (wall to amp) Cardas CLear Cygnus (5), Shunyata Venom NR12 (AQ1000)
    Interconnects: Cardas Clear Cygnus XLR (2)
    Speaker cables: Cardas Clear Cygnus
    Ethernet: Cardas Clear from I7 Roon core to Lumin T2, Supra Cat8 (5)
    ADD-POWR EkectraCkear, Symphony/Ghent DC cable from Keces and HDPlex PS (4)


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  7. #5
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    Re: MSB Discrete Ordered...Now What?

    Thanks guys. I now know more than I knew. I probably know more than I realize. Darrel, thank you for the reference. I’ll check it out for sure. Wikipedia has been helpful in the past too. But so many references assume you have a certain level of knowledge. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being an expert I’m a 2 or 3 when it comes to digital, computers, electronics, etc. But, like I said, I can learn.

  8. #6
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    MSB Discrete Ordered...Now What?

    Great choice on MSB Discrete. Itís as good as it gets in that price range.

    As for understanding ďdigitalĒ, no worries youíll get up to speed in no time. YouTube is your friend.

  9. #7
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    Re: MSB Discrete Ordered...Now What?

    congrats on the msb discrete -- definitely a destination DAC !!

    for computer audio, aka: digital, check out the well tempered computer ...pretty much everything you will want to know about the nuts and bolts of digital and them some.

    enjoy!!!
    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | alp-tone audio analog cables

  10. #8
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    Re: MSB Discrete Ordered...Now What?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassphile View Post
    Thanks guys. I now know more than I knew. I probably know more than I realize. Darrel, thank you for the reference. Iíll check it out for sure. Wikipedia has been helpful in the past too. But so many references assume you have a certain level of knowledge. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being an expert Iím a 2 or 3 when it comes to digital, computers, electronics, etc. But, like I said, I can learn.

    Congrats on the amazing dac. Iíve never heard it but , reading reviews are overwhelming positive.

    ill have to to be Frank with you and please donít take offense to this.

    Reading your posts sounded very much so that you loved talking about stuff but , had no desire to spend the coin on any of this stuff.

    We had another poster for a few months back talking about buying new Magico M3 one day to saying he was just going to buy something vintage from a yard sale.

    You know a tire kicker.

    But , glad you arenít like him lol .

    What is the rest of your system that you current own or have procured ?

  11. #9
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    Re: MSB Discrete Ordered...Now What?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassphile View Post
    I’ve been concentrating so much on my choice for an integrated amp I’ve all but forgotten to learn about DACs and streamers and how they operate. I’ve ordered the best DAC/streamer I could afford. But I know nothing about DACs or streamers. I know that DAC stands for digital analog converter but I don’t know what it does?

    I don’t know what DSD stands for or does? I don’t know what unsampling, sampling, bit depth, is or does. I don’t know a bit from a byte or gigabyte. I don’t know what a DAC or streamer does or how to get “it” to do “it “.....whatever “it” is? It’s embarrassing to admit all this. But, I’ll have to deal with it soon or I won’t be able to use my new system.

    I can learn all the digital/technical stuff just the same as anyone else. But where and/or how? Man, I hate this feeling. I know what DAC stands for but not what it really means. I know you have to have it for streaming. But that’s about the extent of my knowledge. How can I begin to learn this stuff? YouTube? References? Wikipedia?

    I’ve just purchased a top shelf piece of equipment but don’t know how to use it. I’m an old analog guy. I grew up in the ‘50s, not the ‘80s or ‘90s. What’s the best way to begin my quest for information? Please...no chastising. I feel stupid enough.
    I feel your pain, my brother! I can definitely sympathize since I’ve been trying to figure all that out too. I’ll take a stab at it, but will probably not get everything right. I’m sure others will be happy to clarify.


    Digital music recorders convert an analog signal into a digital one, using an analog to digital converter (ADC). ADCs don’t record and store the entire analog waveform. They only take samples which, to varying degrees, approximate the analog waveform. There are 2 main formats for digital recording: pulse code modulation (PCM) and direct stream digital (DSD). Each of these formats have various resolutions or sampling frequencies. CDs use PCM at 16 bits and a sampling frequency of 44.1 kHz. DSD uses 1-bit resolution but a much higher sampling frequency (2.8224 MHz). Higher resolution PCM is usually 24-32 bits with sampling frequencies typically 96 kHz or higher.


    After the analog waveform is sampled it has to be stored in a file format. There are lots of formats for PCM files: aiff and flac are the most common, but there are many others. DSD file formats include dsf and dff. MQA is a newer format.


    Files can be stored on a computer, network attached storage (NAS) or elsewhere.


    That’s the simple part! I’m too am confused by what comes next. However, the simplest explanation I have found is on the Antipodes Audio website, posted here for you:


    REMOTE CONTROL – Use your desktop, laptop, tablet or smartphone to tell the Server what to play.
    SERVER – The Server organises your music, and displays your library, streaming services and radio stations on the Remote Control’s screen. When told to play a file, the Server pushes the music file to a Renderer.
    RENDERER – The Renderer turns the music file into a digital audio signal to send to your DAC.
    DAC – The DAC converts the digital signal to an analog signal and sends it to an amplifier.
    Different products on the market may combine two or more of these functions:
    STREAMER – This term is used loosely, but it usually means a DAC with an Ethernet input, and combines the Renderer and DAC functions in a single device. Many streamers work by ‘pulling’ files stored on other devices on the network, and so in this case the remote control talks to the streamer. Other streamers, such as Roon Ready DACs, work by files being ‘pushed’ from a server to one or more streamers, and so the remote control talks to the server.
    MUSIC SERVER – Most devices called Music Servers combine the Server and Renderer functions in a single device...”

    You use Roon. The Roon Core is the software that manages the music library and database. It requires a lot of computing power, so usually resides on a Mac or Windows computer, network server, or a specialized network computer dedicated just to running Roon Core (like a Roon Nucleus). You also need a way to interface with and control the Core. The Control function is usually thru the Roon Control app, run on a phone, tablet/iPad or computer. All of the hardware in the system (server, renderer, streamer, dac) must be able to “talk Roon” to each other. That’s what makes it Roon Ready or Roon compatible.



    Hope this helps!
    Analog source: AMG Viella 12; Ortofon Anna cartridge, van den Hul Crimson Stradivarius XGW
    Digital source: Totaldac d1-seven DAC, Totaldac d1-server with Gigafilter
    Pre amp: VAC Master with phono
    Phonostage: ​Constellation Andromeda
    Amps: VAC 200iQ monoblocks
    Speakers: Magico M3 with MPods
    Cables: Synergistic Research Galileo
    Power products: Synergistic Research Power Cell 12 UEF and Transporter Ultra. Galileo power cords.

  12. #10
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    Re: MSB Discrete Ordered...Now What?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdp632 View Post
    Congrats on the amazing dac. I’ve never heard it but , reading reviews are overwhelming positive.

    ill have to to be Frank with you and please don’t take offense to this.

    Reading your posts sounded very much so that you loved talking about stuff but , had no desire to spend the coin on any of this stuff.

    We had another poster for a few months back talking about buying new Magico M3 one day to saying he was just going to buy something vintage from a yard sale.

    You know a tire kicker.

    But , glad you aren’t like him lol .

    What is the rest of your system that you current own or have procured ?

    No, no offense taken whatsoever. But I don't fit that profile. The reason I sounded like I didn't want to spend money is I had some sticker shock after coming back to high end audio from a 40+ year absence. I didn't realize how much you could spend on a home audio system. I expected things to be much less expensive. However, I've chalked it up to inflation, bit the bullet, and purchased a system that you wouldn't associate with someone who didn't want to spend the money. I will have spent many times my original budget on my new system.

    My system will consist of: Pass Labs int 250 integrated amp, the afore mentioned MSB DAC/streamer with optional second power supply. Roon Nucleus, Harbeth Super HL 5+ 40th Anniversary speakers, AQ Rockett 88 speaker cables, Mackenzie interconnects, HiFi speaker shelves/racks. I'll be spending a somewhat modest amount on room treatment. That's about it. I just need to become more familiar with the MSB and Roon Nucleus. Then I'll be in tall cotton.

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