Welcome to the AudioShark Forums.
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2023
    Location
    netherlands
    Posts
    21

    Most effective way to remove jitter

    A difficult question: Looking for another streamer. I am struggling for a long time. It did get my interest when going to an audio show from Silent Angel. Silent Angel was very well known by their audiophilic switches, which they started with the Silent Angel Bonn I use, combined with a lineair forester power supply. Nowadays their newest versions have a better build, and are also equipped with an input for external clocks and this matter makes a lot of sense. What is the issue? The internet is a collection of all servers which creates all kind of timing errors: called jitter. As we all know: jitter is hearable and is the major enemy in audio streaming. How much jitter are we talking about? To measure that the internet site speedtest.nl is used Speedtest.nl -. The amount of jitter varies a bit, at the moment this picture was taken, jitter was 0,700 ms. Doing nothing with that jitter still leaves an output of 0.700 ms, even when a great streamer is used.

    jittertest.jpg

    Because we all are connected to internet servers, we all face the same issue, the input signal from outside the house contains jitter

    What are possible solutions for that?

    Number one: is using a USB connection from the streamer to the dac. A toslink, or coax are ones and zero's and the difference with USB is that the latter one sends data packages and information which will later be translated in a jitter free digital signal. How effective is this? And moreover, the streamer has also an internal clock, which introduces again some timing errors.

    Secondly what Silent angel does: it has a separate clock input from all streamers and switches which makes the ethernet connection free from all timing errors. My thing is that you have to stick with their hardware. All motherboards, switches etcetera don't have such an external clock input which makes the more hobby DIY self build unusable. But what I prefer is the less is more method: they use a separate Roon core and Roon streamer. I like to go for a shorter way, hooking directly a dac to the Roon server, in which the switch and the Roon core are external clocked. There are computer boards that can be clocked external, but they are not powerful enough for a Roon core, or they are far away out of my budget.

    Finally: are there other suggestions: There are more brands with an external clock input, so that also would be a nice option.
    Speakers - Bach He2S
    Source: cd player JK acoustics toploader
    fanless nuc 10i7 running on audiolinux
    dac: denafrips ares ii
    preamp: Bryston BP-25
    end amplification: Hypex Nilai
    switch: Silent Angel Bonn

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    East Bay, CA
    Posts
    2,300

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Quote Originally Posted by NewAlkyogre View Post
    A difficult question: Looking for another streamer. I am struggling for a long time. It did get my interest when going to an audio show from Silent Angel. Silent Angel was very well known by their audiophilic switches, which they started with the Silent Angel Bonn I use, combined with a lineair forester power supply. Nowadays their newest versions have a better build, and are also equipped with an input for external clocks and this matter makes a lot of sense. What is the issue? The internet is a collection of all servers which creates all kind of timing errors: called jitter. As we all know: jitter is hearable and is the major enemy in audio streaming. How much jitter are we talking about? To measure that the internet site speedtest.nl is used Speedtest.nl -. The amount of jitter varies a bit, at the moment this picture was taken, jitter was 0,700 ms. Doing nothing with that jitter still leaves an output of 0.700 ms, even when a great streamer is used.

    Because we all are connected to internet servers, we all face the same issue, the input signal from outside the house contains jitter

    What are possible solutions for that?

    Number one: is using a USB connection from the streamer to the dac. A toslink, or coax are ones and zero's and the difference with USB is that the latter one sends data packages and information which will later be translated in a jitter free digital signal. How effective is this? And moreover, the streamer has also an internal clock, which introduces again some timing errors.

    Secondly what Silent angel does: it has a separate clock input from all streamers and switches which makes the ethernet connection free from all timing errors. My thing is that you have to stick with their hardware. All motherboards, switches etcetera don't have such an external clock input which makes the more hobby DIY self build unusable. But what I prefer is the less is more method: they use a separate Roon core and Roon streamer. I like to go for a shorter way, hooking directly a dac to the Roon server, in which the switch and the Roon core are external clocked. There are computer boards that can be clocked external, but they are not powerful enough for a Roon core, or they are far away out of my budget.

    Finally: are there other suggestions: There are more brands with an external clock input, so that also would be a nice option.
    Okay, so, a coupla things....foundational points.

    1) The "signal" from a digitally-encoded music file is not a series of 0's and 1's. The only thing that is "digital" is the encoding of the music file, itself. The "signal" sent from the music server to the Ethernet switch and then downstream to a network bridge, streamer and/or DAC, etc. is an analog square wave voltage, typically with 0V representing a "0" in the digital "file" and +2V representing a "1". And, with respect to "jitter" there are different types of jitter. The one you've referred to above is likely "deterministic" jitter but there is also random jitter, and importantly for reproduction of digitally-encoded music, threshold jitter. Threshold jitter is important because it results in timing errors, which our brains are exquisitely sensitive to when listening to digitally-encoded music. We can hear timing errors in the picosecond time-domain, which is why our digital music devices require femtoclocks.

    The impact of some of these noise factors looks like this:


    This drawing shows the impact of jitter on the "timing" of the music signal.


    Another key noise factor that is audible is phase noise, which looks like this, and can result timing errors, which as mentioned above, we are very, very sensitive to when linsteing to music.


    Moreover, all metal-conductor (copper, silver, etc) based digital cables, including Ethernet and USB, are susceptible in carrying these noise factors, and well as low-and high-source impedance leakage current. In particular, the high-source impedance leakage current is problematical because it results in the threshold jitter referenced above. You can read about the influence of high-source impedance leakage and threshold jitter in a white paper by EtherREGEN designer and professional Ethernet engineer, John Swenson, here: https://shorturl.at/l0146

    A very effective way to mitigate the impact of leakage current and threshold jitter is to send the file data via LC/LC optical fiber from the music server, Ethernet switch, etc. to the downstream (in the audio rack, that is) network bridge, streamer, and/or streamer/DAC. The advantage of optical fiber, is because the data is encoded as light signals, by definition, it can't carry low-and high-source impedance leakage current (though it can still have phase noise from any crap, upstream clocks in generic digital devices e.g. routers, switches, generic FMCs, etc.)

    In addition the various types of jitter and phase noise, digital cables, including Ethernet, USB, S/PDIF, etc also carry common-mode noise, so you have to manage that as well.



    Reference for impact of Common-mode Noise for audio applications: https://community.element14.com/lear...o-applications

    So, once the music file data is sent from the "upstream" music server computer, e.g. via optical fiber, downstream to the network bridge or stream in or near the main audio rack, you want to mitigate common-mode noise using the appropriately-designed Ethernet and USB cables.

    Hope this helps to clarify some key points. Cheers.
    Ĥѱ = 𝐸ѱ

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    441

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Received jitter on the digital audio input pretty much only translates into timing errors of the analog output if the digital audio signal jitter (i.e. S/PDIF) carries through to the DAC chip's clock pin. That tends to no longer be an issue with the majority of DAC products today. It was more common a problem when S/PDIF receivers phase lock loop was used to directly drive the DAC chip's clock pin, often with no buffer to speak of. But these days it is usually only used to derive the transmitting clock and recover the digital audio data, which is then buffered and fed to the DAC chip using an internal clock. The edge case is if the data completely underruns or overruns but that is generally not a concern.

    The packet-based nature of network communications and the use of relatively very large network buffers means network jitter should not become digital audio signal jitter. If the network buffer runs out, then you'll get an interruption in the music playback. A low amount of buffered network data does not result in the playback being "slowed" to let things catch up, and playback also isn't "sped up" to try and drain a full network buffer.

    USB audio uses error detection but does not use error correction or retransmit. So in the (should be very unlikely) case a USB audio data packet was corrupted during transit, that portion of audio will be missing. Roon RAAT, and most modern network audio streaming protocols are using error detection and retransmit (either by design or because of the underlying transport protocols used), and so should be the most reliable.
    Neko Audio
    Authorized Dealer: AC Infinity, APC, Audeze, Bryston, Devialet, Elite HTS, Fortress Seating, JMF Audio, JVC, Kaleidescape, LG, LUMIN, Magico, Ortofon, RME, Samsung, Soulution, STAX, Trinnov, Vivid Audio, Weiss & more.

  4. #4

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoAudio View Post
    Received jitter on the digital audio input pretty much only translates into timing errors of the analog output if the digital audio signal jitter (i.e. S/PDIF) carries through to the DAC chip's clock pin. That tends to no longer be an issue with the majority of DAC products today. It was more common a problem when S/PDIF receivers phase lock loop was used to directly drive the DAC chip's clock pin, often with no buffer to speak of. But these days it is usually only used to derive the transmitting clock and recover the digital audio data, which is then buffered and fed to the DAC chip using an internal clock. The edge case is if the data completely underruns or overruns but that is generally not a concern.

    The packet-based nature of network communications and the use of relatively very large network buffers means network jitter should not become digital audio signal jitter. If the network buffer runs out, then you'll get an interruption in the music playback. A low amount of buffered network data does not result in the playback being "slowed" to let things catch up, and playback also isn't "sped up" to try and drain a full network buffer.

    USB audio uses error detection but does not use error correction or retransmit. So in the (should be very unlikely) case a USB audio data packet was corrupted during transit, that portion of audio will be missing. Roon RAAT, and most modern network audio streaming protocols are using error detection and retransmit (either by design or because of the underlying transport protocols used), and so should be the most reliable.
    TL;DR? Jitter is no longer a boogeyman

  5. #5

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoAudio View Post
    Received jitter on the digital audio input pretty much only translates into timing errors of the analog output if the digital audio signal jitter (i.e. S/PDIF) carries through to the DAC chip's clock pin. That tends to no longer be an issue with the majority of DAC products today. It was more common a problem when S/PDIF receivers phase lock loop was used to directly drive the DAC chip's clock pin, often with no buffer to speak of. But these days it is usually only used to derive the transmitting clock and recover the digital audio data, which is then buffered and fed to the DAC chip using an internal clock. The edge case is if the data completely underruns or overruns but that is generally not a concern.

    The packet-based nature of network communications and the use of relatively very large network buffers means network jitter should not become digital audio signal jitter. If the network buffer runs out, then you'll get an interruption in the music playback. A low amount of buffered network data does not result in the playback being "slowed" to let things catch up, and playback also isn't "sped up" to try and drain a full network buffer.

    USB audio uses error detection but does not use error correction or retransmit. So in the (should be very unlikely) case a USB audio data packet was corrupted during transit, that portion of audio will be missing. Roon RAAT, and most modern network audio streaming protocols are using error detection and retransmit (either by design or because of the underlying transport protocols used), and so should be the most reliable.
    It’s not so much about jitter these days, as long as it’s down to single digit picosecond in level, but about noise coming in. That’s why the better ethernet switches like Ansuz and others are so effective.
    Reference System:
    Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn, Lyra Etna Lambda
    dCS Rossini APEX DAC, master clock, transport
    Revox PR99 modified by Soren Wittrup, A77 Mark II tape decks
    Audio Research Ref 6SE and Ref Phono 3SE Preamplifiers
    Audio Research Ref 160 Stereo Amplifier
    Wilson Audio Alexia V in Cranberry Pearl and black hardware
    Wilson Audio LoKe subwoofer in Cranberry Pearl and black hardware x 2

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Watsonville
    Posts
    3

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    The packet data transfer system inherent in the design of Ethernet and similar networking protocols is so jittery by design that you cannot hope for any semblance of playback directly from that data. Its so bad that if you were to somehow connect up the data from an Ethernet receiver directly to a DAC chip without buffering and reclocking there would be tiny busts of playback with silences in between at nearly random intervals. It is up to the receiving computer (renderer, server, etc...) to buffer that data in local memory and stream it out synchronously to the DACs conversion clock. Even the process of transferring data to the actual conversion hardware from the host computer is usually extremely jittery. For example, USB uses a packet protocol that is unbelievably jittery from a DACs point of view. Groups of packets come in quickly from the host computer, then when a local buffer becomes empty enough to fit another burst of packets the USB receiver signals the host computer to send some more data, when the host computer is not too busy with another task it will send anther burst of audio data (this happens with completely unpredictable timings). So even USB data must be held in local memory and re-timed onto an internal synchronous streaming protocol such as I2S in the DAC. Trying to reduce the jitter of any computer data protocol before data is in the DAC box is completely and utterly futile because the basic design of the protocol do not allow any jitter reduction at all...

    Noise reduction is a different but related story. Computer hardware tends to generate tons of electrical noise, and that noise can affect the analog signals directly and indirectly (by affecting the conversion process). I have found that any electrically conductive signal path from a computer(of any form, even an embedded renderer) to a DAC always includes enough noise to degrade sound quality at least some, and more often a lot. Even though Ethernet uses transformers to isolate network segments, noise still comes through to the receiving computer. Even a low power embedded renderer in a DAC always generates significant noise itself, just by running the software stack necessary for data reception. USB is even worse because it is a direct electrical path for noise from the computer to the DAC. Basically the only way to get rid of the noise is to use isolation of some sort, preferably an optical isolation. But an optical connection using a protocol such as Ethernet (or isolated USB) just moves the noise source to the proximity of the DAC circuitry again, meaning it is impossible to get rid of the computer generated noise if you use a computer data protocol, full stop. What is required is an audio only data streaming protocol on an optical medium. Such a streaming protocol would ideally use a clock for the physical data transfer layer that is synchronous to the DACs internal conversion clock so that noise and jitter can both be eliminated simultaneously. It should also be easily decoded with low noise hardware so as not to disturb the local electrical environment inside the DAC. That is the only way I know of to eliminate computer generated noise from an audio playback system.

    Another possible way to reduce the effect of digitally induced noise in a system is to use balanced analog signaling to reduce the noise present at the point of amplification. Another strategy is to filter out the noise present in the analog signal. However this still does not affect the noise and distortions generated by DAC hardware that is itself sensitive to electrical noise. This is also only a finite reduction of noise due to the finite capabilities of the electrical circuits that transmit and receive analog signals.

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2023
    Location
    netherlands
    Posts
    21

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Ty for all replies. The reason I responded so late is because all answers really become technical and complicated for me, and am a bit lost.

    What surprised me is that usb isnÂ’t that perfect I thought, and what is important is the amount if noise. Heard that even the light on the button influences audio quality, do little that no one can separate them apart.

    Currently I have it this way:

    Glas fibre in the house, modem —router—silent angel bonn switch, nuc with roon server, usb connection, dac etcetera

    How to improve? Is it s good idea to use USB? Isn’t it the wrong “streamer” and is the usb the right choice, because read above some doubts. I2s and digital coax are also s alternatives.

    If this nuc will be replaced, in general what is the best choice, not looking at the price?

    - a low current streamer, like a raspberry pi based system, with galvanic seperation snd the right shielding
    - an optical fibre streamer, like the sonore optical rendu.
    - a high end streamer with great clocks, for instance a lumin, or for my part grimm, melco, eversolo, and what is the preferred output digital connection?
    - a high end well designed audio pc with own protocols, like the taiko?

    And a second thing, how important is the dac in this story? If the noice is reaching that and the buffering and reclocking is done there. It is the final stage before getting analogue.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    441

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    I guess if price (and existing products) are not a restriction, then theoretically you'd want a dedicated streamer with built-in DAC that uses a fiber (optical) network connection. Assuming the separate internal subsystems are all built with mechanical and electrical isolation, that eliminates multiple potential problems. You don't have an electrically coupled network interface, you have zero interconnect cables running a digital audio signal, the shortest signal paths are used, and all of the clocks involved are synchronized.

    You could take it one farther and make it an all-in-one system to eliminate any potential noise or degradation from analog audio cables.
    Neko Audio
    Authorized Dealer: AC Infinity, APC, Audeze, Bryston, Devialet, Elite HTS, Fortress Seating, JMF Audio, JVC, Kaleidescape, LG, LUMIN, Magico, Ortofon, RME, Samsung, Soulution, STAX, Trinnov, Vivid Audio, Weiss & more.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Argentina
    Posts
    192

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Recently here in Buenos Aires we have tested an Ethernet noise Insulation by Aadvark with significant improvement. May be you can give it a chance. Find bellow the link and there you can find Dealers in USA and UK.

    Aardvark - Ethernet Noise Isolation
    McIntosh C302 + C2600 - Lumin A1 - Lenco L75 - Marantz SR6007 - Paradigm S6 - Gaia II - Chord Epic Twin Speaker Cable + Jumpers - Bada LB5500

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    The Neutral Zone
    Posts
    555

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoAudio View Post
    I guess if price (and existing products) are not a restriction, then theoretically you'd want a dedicated streamer with built-in DAC that uses a fiber (optical) network connection. Assuming the separate internal subsystems are all built with mechanical and electrical isolation, that eliminates multiple potential problems. You don't have an electrically coupled network interface, you have zero interconnect cables running a digital audio signal, the shortest signal paths are used, and all of the clocks involved are synchronized.

    You could take it one farther and make it an all-in-one system to eliminate any potential noise or degradation from analog audio cables.
    This is exactly the correct technical solution. Eliminate all the electrical interfaces between home network, streamer, and DAC. Go optical Ethernet directly into a streamer/DAC combo.

    The conversion of switched Ethernet audio to S/PDIF, AES/EBU, and asynchronous isochronous audio USB is a trivial D to D format conversion. Putting a bunch of computing crap in a streamer is very popular because it has become a pretty box that can be branded and sold separately from a DAC. There is no real reason for this, except perhaps to provide a unique user experience in terms of a nice display and shiny buttons to press. And a proprietary app experience.
    Tom

    Audio:
    Amati Futura Mains
    Amati Homage VOX Center,
    Proac Response 1sc Rears,
    Three MC2301's for L,C,R
    MC 602 for the rears
    C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
    Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
    SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

    Video:
    MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

    Lake House:
    Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3

    OnDeck:
    McIntosh MAC 4300v

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    East Bay, CA
    Posts
    2,300

    Smile Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoAudio View Post
    I guess if price (and existing products) are not a restriction, then theoretically you'd want a dedicated streamer with built-in DAC that uses a fiber (optical) network connection. Assuming the separate internal subsystems are all built with mechanical and electrical isolation, that eliminates multiple potential problems. You don't have an electrically coupled network interface, you have zero interconnect cables running a digital audio signal, the shortest signal paths are used, and all of the clocks involved are synchronized.

    You could take it one farther and make it an all-in-one system to eliminate any potential noise or degradation from analog audio cables.
    and...
    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    This is exactly the correct technical solution. Eliminate all the electrical interfaces between home network, streamer, and DAC. Go optical Ethernet directly into a streamer/DAC combo.
    And, you gents have very clearly articulated some key foundational reasons why I sold my previous "set-up" and went with a Lumin P1, which provides the "streamer", DAC, and preamp functions for my system. Instead of the really complicated set-up I had before (using my SoTM Network bridge, FMCs, and all sorts of other cables, power supplies, power cables for the power supplies, blah, blah, blah, ay me! ), now in the remote server room, Alita the music server connects to ER with an Ethernet cable, & I simply run one LC/LC optical out of EtherREGEN straight into the back of the P1. Connect the P1 to the Constellation integrated with a single pair of ICs, and...job done!

    Nice thing is, it ALWAYS works. Connect up the Altairas, and the system sounds absolutely fabulous.

    Or, in the words of Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery: "Yeah, baby, yeah!" 😎
    Ĥѱ = 𝐸ѱ

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    441

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    And, you gents have very clearly articulated some key foundational reasons why I sold my previous "set-up" and went with a Lumin P1, which provides the "streamer", DAC, and preamp functions for my system.
    Yep. Another excellent option is the Devialet Expert Pro.
    Neko Audio
    Authorized Dealer: AC Infinity, APC, Audeze, Bryston, Devialet, Elite HTS, Fortress Seating, JMF Audio, JVC, Kaleidescape, LG, LUMIN, Magico, Ortofon, RME, Samsung, Soulution, STAX, Trinnov, Vivid Audio, Weiss & more.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2023
    Location
    netherlands
    Posts
    21

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Fer1000 View Post
    Recently here in Buenos Aires we have tested an Ethernet noise Insulation by Aadvark with significant improvement. May be you can give it a chance. Find bellow the link and there you can find Dealers in USA and UK.

    Aardvark - Ethernet Noise Isolation
    This is what really makes sense. Still haven't tested these ethernet noise insulations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    and...


    And, you gents have very clearly articulated some key foundational reasons why I sold my previous "set-up" and went with a Lumin P1, which provides the "streamer", DAC, and preamp functions for my system. Instead of the really complicated set-up I had before (using my SoTM Network bridge, FMCs, and all sorts of other cables, power supplies, power cables for the power supplies, blah, blah, blah, ay me! ), now in the remote server room, Alita the music server connects to ER with an Ethernet cable, & I simply run one LC/LC optical out of EtherREGEN straight into the back of the P1. Connect the P1 to the Constellation integrated with a single pair of ICs, and...job done!

    Nice thing is, it ALWAYS works. Connect up the Altairas, and the system sounds absolutely fabulous.

    Or, in the words of Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery: "Yeah, baby, yeah!" 😎
    This is not the way I like to go, prefer several components, instead of an all in one solution. The reason is that the power usage from one part cannot influence the other build in component by electromagnetic radiation. What I was thinking is a dedicated streamer/pc that uses hardly no power, where the machine can be separately powered by an lps and the streamer can be connected to an external clock.

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    This is exactly the correct technical solution. Eliminate all the electrical interfaces between home network, streamer, and DAC. Go optical Ethernet directly into a streamer/DAC combo.

    The conversion of switched Ethernet audio to S/PDIF, AES/EBU, and asynchronous isochronous audio USB is a trivial D to D format conversion. Putting a bunch of computing crap in a streamer is very popular because it has become a pretty box that can be branded and sold separately from a DAC. There is no real reason for this, except perhaps to provide a unique user experience in terms of a nice display and shiny buttons to press. And a proprietary app experience.
    optical input to the dac is impossible for me. The ISP converts glass fiber into a normal ethernet cable. This modem cannot be replaced and moreover, the house has corners, and you cannot bend light cables, because then it breaks.
    Speakers - Bach He2S
    Source: cd player JK acoustics toploader
    fanless nuc 10i7 running on audiolinux
    dac: denafrips ares ii
    preamp: Bryston BP-25
    end amplification: Hypex Nilai
    switch: Silent Angel Bonn

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    441

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Quote Originally Posted by NewAlkyogre View Post
    This is not the way I like to go, prefer several components, instead of an all in one solution.... where the machine can be separately powered by an lps and the streamer can be connected to an external clock.
    Theory does run into reality. But there are certainly companies and products that do an excellent job getting close.

    With respect to an external clock, as I'm sure you're also aware, it matters how the clock is used and how the clock lines are implemented inside the devices you are all running off the external clock. Since the goal is to synchronize all the devices communicating with each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by NewAlkyogre View Post
    optical input to the dac is impossible for me. The ISP converts glass fiber into a normal ethernet cable. This modem cannot be replaced and moreover, the house has corners, and you cannot bend light cables, because then it breaks.
    You only really need to electrically decouple the last part. The data itself should arrive without any loss of fidelity.
    Neko Audio
    Authorized Dealer: AC Infinity, APC, Audeze, Bryston, Devialet, Elite HTS, Fortress Seating, JMF Audio, JVC, Kaleidescape, LG, LUMIN, Magico, Ortofon, RME, Samsung, Soulution, STAX, Trinnov, Vivid Audio, Weiss & more.

  15. #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2023
    Location
    netherlands
    Posts
    21

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Do you have examples of such a system (router/switch) that converts lan back into glass fiber?

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Tampa
    Posts
    639

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    There are a few ways to approach this:

    1. a streamer or DAC/streamer like the Lumin X1 that have a port for a fiber transceiver, with a network switch with a port for a fiber transceiver (I have SoTM but there are others)

    2. copper (i.e. standard ethernet cable) > fiber converters (Blackbox sells them as well as others on Amazon), which will at least get you closer by eliminating most of the copper cable, even if your network switch and streamer/DAC only have standard copper ethernet ports

    3. a mix of the above, where one side has a port for a transceiver and the other doesn't, with the optimal scenario being fiber into the streamer

    Does it make a difference? Yes, imo it does. And I imagine in the opinion / measurement of vendors who integrate that feature.
    Main System

    Lumin X1 > Boulder 1161 > Scansonic MB3.5 B

    Headphones

    Home: HiFiMan Susvara > Schiit Lyr+
    Portable: Focal Radiance > AQ Dragonfly Cobalt / Chord Hugo 2

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    3,060

    Re: Most effective way to remove jitter

    Quote Originally Posted by NewAlkyogre View Post
    Do you have examples of such a system (router/switch) that converts lan back into glass fiber?
    Any "network switch with SFP" will do that.

    As you may expect, I agree with all others suggesting a streamer/DAC with built-in SFP cage. If you really don't want a DAC inside the SFP streamer, we also offer Lumin U2.

    For fiber, I suggest Corning from the bottom links here:
    LUMIN - Fibre Networking

    Internally we use fs.com Corning fiber. (May take more time to ship.)
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.

AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.

The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.

At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.

We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!

Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com

Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team

Most effective way to remove jitter

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •