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November 26, 2021, 10:45 AM #1
the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
previously, my diy roon ROCK server was connected directly to my DAC via USB as described in this thread. however, with recent system changes it was necessary to move the server down to the basement networking closet. consequently, in order to keep feeding the DAC via USB which provides asynchronous and ultra high-resolution streams (DSD512) it was necessary to add a streamer located at the rack.
i opted for the sonore opticalRendu which eliminates 100% of the upstream electrical noise via optical isolation. it is a quite small roon-ready endpoint that is a bridge between the server and the DAC. it is connected to the network via ethernet optical fiber and to the DAC with a USB cable.
before, my roon ROCK server was connected to the network with optical fiber which also eliminated all upstream electrical noise. however, the signal subsequently passed to the DAC via USB unfortunately included some of the electrical noise generated by the server running all the roon software. now that noise is also completely eliminated and the digital stream entering the opticalRendu is 100% noise free.
absent a DAC with an on-board optical fiber input, it is not possible to get a cleaner asynchronous signal to the DAC. unfortunately, as of this writing and to my knowledge there are only a very few DACs offering fiber input (lumin X1 + P1, linn klimax DSM and all MSB models via its proISL input).
not to over-hype this solution but the results were immediately apparent and significant. versus my prior configuration: a huge soundstage with much more air around the instruments; increased instrument resonance / decay; and overall a richer and a way more holographic sound.
in any event, i have waxed poetic before about ethernet fiber and optical isolation. suffice it to say that i find the opticalRendu a relatively inexpensive method of eliminating all electrical noise from a audio stream at the most important point in the digital chain — just prior to delivery to the DAC. thereby, obviating the need for expensive audiophile networking equipment and/or specialized music servers.
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note: given that my server runs roon ROCK, i chose the roon-only version of the opticalRendu. i also got a small green computer LPS to power it. also, small green computer offers a 30-day no questions asked return policy. however, i knew it was staying in my system after 10 minutes.
viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | air tight atc-5 + atm-300r | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + kanjiroba diy transport + roon rock
alp-tone audio analog cables | core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii
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November 26, 2021, 09:30 PM #2
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
This is really a great write-up, aKnyght, and describes well the benefits of using an optical system to connect server to network bridge.
Just some more detail of what aKnyght is referring to with respect to noise components: the power supplies of standard "networked" computing devices, e.g. NUCs, computers, generic Ethernet switches, etc., etc. that are all powered with SMPS create a class of current referred specifically to as "high-source leakage impedance current". This current adds noise to the signal ground plane of bridges, streamers, DACs, etc. and results in a very specific type of jitter known as "threshold jitter". This class of jitter, much like clock phase noise, results in timing errors that are quite audible as perceived by the human brain in our perception of "music" It's the brain that converts the sound of air waves of varying pressure into what we perceive as "music", and this is where these timing errors perceived by the brain can result in "disengagement".
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November 27, 2021, 12:46 AM #3
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
Morgan
NEW SYSTEM UNDER CONSTRUCTION
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November 27, 2021, 08:20 PM #4
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Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
have you tried comparing the ultrarendu vs the optical rendu? My ultrarendu also sounds great, I use for that a special build Bach LPS.
This optical solution sounds interesting, I need to cross 10 metres of distance with a network cable. Light does not have Electromagnetic distortion at all. On the other hand does a well shielded network cable also block electromagnetic distortion? Because in the latter case a signal from copper does not have to be converted to light and as a rule of thumb: the less conversions the better.
On the other hand, audio is sometimes difficult to understand, especially when a network comes into play. Why does an Intel Nuc as Roon server build in a fanless aluminium case sound better then the same board in the original case?
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November 28, 2021, 08:33 PM #5
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
I don't know what you mean by "electromagnetic distortion".
Optical cables are not susceptible to RFI and EMI.
A network cable, if it is a shielded one with shields connected at both ends, will allow the passage of high-source leakage impedance current. This is not EMI. The impact of high-source leakage impedance current is threshold jitter, which causes timing errors. An optical cable will not pass high-source leakage impedance current, which means no threshold jitter.
Both types of cable are susceptible to clock phase noise from the el-cheapo clocks in generic networking devices.
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November 29, 2021, 08:15 PM #6
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
My DAC/PRE takes copper Ethernet connection. I opted to use the etherRegen unit to collect network connection via optical connection, and use the highly regulated Ethernet 100 connection to the Bricasti. I also consider having a non-galvanic connection close to the Ethernet endpoint to be useful.
Amplification : Modwright LS300 - Atma-Sphere "Class D" monoblocks
Digital : MSB Premier DAC+Digital Director, Oppo 203, Sonos Port (W4S mod)
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November 29, 2021, 08:35 PM #7
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
Great write up. We tried the optical connection on the X1 and felt it was just “different”, not sure it was better. Cleaner, more detail. But more musical? Don’t know.
The MSB ProUSB/ProISL is our favorite of all MSB inputs - by far.
Optical certainly eliminates a lot of problems and I hope more companies adopt it.
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November 30, 2021, 07:31 AM #8
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Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
I mean distortion from all different sources, other electric items like microwaves, tv’s the amp itself ,the power cable which is located next to it, wifi signals etcetera
I was wondering, because you are talking about jitter. This prevention of jitter was exactly the reason why this ultrarendu was chosen, because it has USB 2 output. I thoughf that SP/dif, digital coax and toslink could cause jitter because it is sending ones and zero’s to the dac and USB works different with data files instead where it is reconstructed to the same packages before it is converted to analog.
Of course then it can again cause new jitter, but at this stage the network cable/fiber cable is already passed.
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November 30, 2021, 09:51 AM #9
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
correct ...this type jitter is not an issue with an asynchronous DAC receiving a USB data stream. here, the DAC takes at-rest data (i.e. cached) and uses its own internal clock for conversion timing. therefore, any jitter that could be cause by upstream devices is irrelevant since those clocks are NOT used in the conversion process.
as you point out, there is of course the issue of the accuracy of the DAC's internal clock but that is a different concern.viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | air tight atc-5 + atm-300r | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + kanjiroba diy transport + roon rock
alp-tone audio analog cables | core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii
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November 30, 2021, 10:15 AM #10Rob
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Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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November 30, 2021, 10:53 AM #11
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
Along these lines I've yet to understand why people feel that re-clocking the ethernet-transmitted signal (sometimes multiple times) prior to it reaching a streamer/player that caches the data and reclocks it itself is a reasonable approach. Assuming there is a reasonable clock in the streamer/player.
Other than the inevitable "I tried 2 EtherRegen switches between my server and my player and 2 sounded better than 1." Next of course is 3 switches.
As to USB - I've never owned a USB dac so have 0 experience. At a Nagra demo however the Nagra rep was feeding the HD Dac with a Macbook and a cheapie usb cable. When asked he said 'with this dac it doesn't matter.' But obviously that's just one dac and I have 0 reasons to doubt that people with usb dacs hear improvements as they 'improve' the data stream.Sources: Naim ND555/555PS | Roon Nucleus | Naim Soltstice Special Edition turntable and phono stage
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November 30, 2021, 12:07 PM #12
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November 30, 2021, 12:09 PM #13
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
Not exactly accurate, aKnyght. Your comments above do not address the problems of threshold jitter. Threshold jitter is the result of noise on the signal ground plane due to high-source impedance leakage current. This causes timing errors, it is not the same type of jitter we're historically used to thinking of with digital.
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November 30, 2021, 12:39 PM #14
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November 30, 2021, 12:43 PM #15
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | air tight atc-5 + atm-300r | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + kanjiroba diy transport + roon rock
alp-tone audio analog cables | core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii
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November 30, 2021, 12:54 PM #16
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
Yes, sir!
I'm busy getting breakfast ready at the moment but I'll put up some references in just a bit, by someone who knows more this than I do because...they did it professionally for a living for 40 years. Namely, John Swenson...who designed the UltraRendu, OpticalRendu, EtherREGEN, and the Uptone ISO Regen reclocker.
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November 30, 2021, 12:57 PM #17
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Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
it isnt that easy.....no matter how good that last clock in the chain is, it is meant to work for the dac and not to clean dirt from upstream devices. it gets overstrained.
i am all in for double or tripple switches with top clocks and all the tweaking.
and reclocking. its all about it.
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November 30, 2021, 01:00 PM #18
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November 30, 2021, 01:03 PM #19
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Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
sorry, call it noise.
maybe overstrained is the wrong word, however clocks dont like to be shared
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November 30, 2021, 01:10 PM #20
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November 30, 2021, 01:45 PM #21
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Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
i thought the more clocks the better
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November 30, 2021, 01:47 PM #22
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November 30, 2021, 03:06 PM #23
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November 30, 2021, 03:19 PM #24
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
It really depends on the clock. The cheap-*ss clocks in generic, consumer-grade networking or computing devices can add a notable amount of phase noise, and add "blurring" to the clock "edges". The damage to clock edges from phase noise can "stack up" when using a number of el-cheapo, consumer-grade networking devices in the "path" from source to DAC. Imagine a digital signal that that starts out as a nearly perfect square wave that becomes more and more "blurred" as each subsequent el-cheapo devices as some "blur" to the now-imperfect square wave "shape". The damage to the clock edges "cascades" to becoming worse and worse.
This is why quality devices e.g. the OpticalRendu, OpticalModule, UltraRendu, SOtM SMS-200 UltraNeo and USB "re-clockers" can improve the majority of the "damage" done to the clock edges, because they can "re-clock" the the signal to a newer, "cleaner" square wave, with cleaner "edges" than from the crap clocks. But, they're still not absolutely perfect, which is why "stacking" multiple quality devices can help clean up those edges even further. The Rendu series utilize the Crystek CCHD-575 oscillator and the SMS uses the sCLK-EX clock, both of which are quite good oscillators for the money, but IIRC, neither of them are "oven-controlled", and clocks are very sensitive to temperature, so the oven-controlled clocks are even better. And more expensive. The better the quality of the clock, the better the integrity of the clock edges that are preserved.
This is also why the uber-clocks, e.g. the Cybershaft OP-series are so effective, and...so expensive.
Like everything in audio, you get what you pay for.
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November 30, 2021, 05:41 PM #25
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
Per our discussion here, this white paper by John Swenson discusses in depth why some of the things discussed here, e.g. threshold jitter, are important in computer-networked audio.
It's pretty deep and pretty technical, but the quality of the content is excellent.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/06...f?v=1583429386
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December 1, 2021, 09:51 AM #26
Re: the last mile — sonore opticalRendu
I have read this white paper, and while my experience tends to agree with the proposed end result it is important to keep in mind that any "white paper" is a promotional product, not peer-reviewed nor necessarily evidence-based.
Rob
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Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
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