Lampizator Big 7 has landed

**Elberoth** · March 7, 2015, 04:34 PM

Just got my Lampizator Big 7. This is the latest model, generation 5, with pure DSD (256) engine. No ESS DAC to play native PCM inside. DSD only and USB input only.

To play DSD files, you have to upsample them to DSD on the fly using Jriver, HQ Player etc.

This is my second Lampizator - I have been using the Lampizator DSD only level 5 for the past 2 months. I bought my first Lampi to try the whole DSD upsampling concept (I have very few native DSD files).

It looks much different to the images I have seen on the Internet. Some months ago Łukasz decided to go all PCB, which improved both reliability AND sonics (better grounding thanks to multi layer PCB). The new Golden Gate DAC also uses PCBs.

My DAC is equipped with premium WE replica 101D tubes (standard on Golden Gate DAC).

Here are some images I have just taken. Enjoy !

And the new Apple TV remote (you can program in any remote you like; I have chosen an Apple TV remote since I do not have Apple TV and the remote itself is super cool):

You can also choose one of the 10 different color themes for display / ON button. I went with blue / blue.

**SoundRebels** · March 7, 2015, 04:39 PM

looks very serious ;-)

**FlexibleAudio** · March 7, 2015, 05:32 PM

Very nice Adam. Did you ever post a link to your current CAPs V4 specification??

**Elberoth** · March 7, 2015, 05:36 PM

Not yet. But will do. It is not a secret.

**berto** · March 7, 2015, 05:41 PM

Sweet Adam, Enjoy!

**wisnon** · March 7, 2015, 06:23 PM

Very, very, nice.

**joeinid** · March 7, 2015, 08:24 PM

Adam,

Beautiful, great photos too. Thank you for the update. I'm Going to have to give the Lampi another look. When it's right, it sounds sublime.

**Audioseduction** · March 7, 2015, 08:45 PM

Adam, why 2 different DACS? Do each play a specific format better?

**socfan12** · March 7, 2015, 08:54 PM

Look forward to your listening impressions, Adam!

**mep** · March 7, 2015, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio

Very nice Adam. Did you ever post a link to your current CAPs V4 specification??

Paul-Where the hell have you been? How is your room coming along and your new system??

**Audioseduction** · March 7, 2015, 09:07 PM

By the way that Big 7 looks REAL nice!!! Congrats!!!

**Steve** · March 7, 2015, 09:21 PM

Adam. Congrats. Beautiful. This is the spec I'm interested in or Golden Gate. Not sure if there is any added price/performance justification for the latter.

Any reason why you decided not to go the dual DAC option? I too am considering DSD only but maybe the dual DAC will offer me further convenience without performance compromise to the build spec?

Why pre-amp option? Is it mainly for the remote trigger and LCD display capability?

**veindoc** · March 7, 2015, 11:09 PM

Thank you thank you thank you. For your time, commitment to quality and improvement. I really appreciate it all.
Sincere thanks

Nick

**FlexibleAudio** · March 7, 2015, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by mep

Paul-Where the hell have you been? How is your room coming along and your new system??

Hello Clark, "Been in the clinic gettin cured off the Wild Turkey."

No seriously been extremely tied up in an expansion at my business so I put things on hold. I just listen to my old B&W, Rotel stuff in the mean time. It has been crazy. I am plan to get cracking again soon. Hope you have been behaving yourself.

**Steve** · March 7, 2015, 11:58 PM

Adam..What optional SPDIF input did you end up with?

**Elberoth** · March 8, 2015, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by Steve

Adam..What optional SPDIF input did you end up with?

None. The one I have is DSD only and USB input only.

**Elberoth** · March 8, 2015, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by Steve

Adam. Congrats. Beautiful. This is the spec I'm interested in or Golden Gate. Not sure if there is any added price/performance justification for the latter.

Any reason why you decided not to go the dual DAC option? I too am considering DSD only but maybe the dual DAC will offer me further convenience without performance compromise to the build spec?

Why pre-amp option? Is it mainly for the remote trigger and LCD display capability?

For one, I do not have any SPDIF sources. The PC server is my only source.

It also makes the DAC cheaper (but was not a factor for me).

Last but not least - I believe you get a very slight performance improvement when getting DSD only or a classic DAC only (which a DAC chip) design. The improvement comes from removing a cap, that sits in the signal path between the two digital engines. When you go with just one engine, there is no need for the cap. No cap is fully transparent.

I decided to make one step at a time. Golden Gate may still be in the cards. It is similar in design, but made with all those Bugatti parts.

**Elberoth** · March 8, 2015, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by Steve

Why pre-amp option? Is it mainly for the remote trigger and LCD display capability?

I have no classic preamp anymore.

**Steve** · March 8, 2015, 03:35 AM

Adam... Thanks for your feedback. I have already put forth an inquiry for a DSD only option with no SPDIF option as I also came up with the same conclusion. No SPDIF requirement, as well as having difficulty reconciling how this is even possible without a PCM capable feature set. :scratch:

A bare bones fully balanced dual mono DSD Golden Gate solution would be the ultimate. Given the extra chassis space that would be available, I'm wondering whether he would be receptive to a fully balanced configuration.... All I would want in such a box is the USB out & a 5v trigger input to turn the thing on & off.

A dream Golden Gate would be one that also had a balanced ADC solution. eg. features of the Ayre QA-9 DoP in and out via two discrete USB connections. A pre-amp to manage the analog line-in for ADC processing would be necessary here though.

**wisnon** · March 8, 2015, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio

Hello Clark, "Been in the clinic gettin cured off the Wild Turkey."

No seriously been extremely tied up in an expansion at my business so I put things on hold. I just listen to my old B&W, Rotel stuff in the mean time. It has been crazy. I am plan to get cracking again soon. Hope you have been behaving yourself.

First things first Paul.

**Ritmo** · March 8, 2015, 08:22 AM

Congratulations Adam!

**FlexibleAudio** · March 8, 2015, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

For one, I do not have any SPDIF sources. The PC server is my only source.

It also makes the DAC cheaper (but was not a factor for me).

Last but not least - I believe you get a very slight performance improvement when getting DSD only or a classic DAC only (which a DAC chip) design. The improvement comes from removing a cap, that sits in the signal path between the two digital engines. When you go with just one engine, there is no need for the cap. No cap is fully transparent.

I decided to make one step at a time. Golden Gate may still be in the cards. It is similar in design, but made with all those Bugatti parts.

Re bold type - Agreed. One question though Adam, can you convert streaming high res internet radio (like Tidal) to DSD on the fly through HQP?

**wisnon** · March 8, 2015, 11:19 AM

Paul, I cant answer the Tidal question definitively, as I am not sure of the logistics, BUT if you can indeed get a PCM signal to the PC running HQP, then I dont see why not.

Regarding the other point, the DSD only is certainly purist and I can confirm there is a cap in the dual engine Dac to deal with DC offset, as bothe engines have different outputs. So Adam compared to me would have 1 cap less and no switch (though in my case its a quality Japanese gold plated high quality switch). one other aspect that ADAM has not mentioned is the DSD DIRECT configuration where i think even the output Cap is dispensed with. Unfortunately, i dont have that but AL does and for AL he has the bypass switch, so he can engage when he wants to. When mine ever gets upgraded, I will ask for that to go along with DSD256.

**FlexibleAudio** · March 8, 2015, 11:38 AM

Norman,

I agree regarding the PCM signal from Tidal to HQP but it would be nice to confirm your logic. I have a sneaky suspicion Adam has some insight here.

Regarding theoretical SQ improvements from DSD only, if I understand correctly, opting for both DSD only and DSD DIRECT configurations will achieve the following:

1) no cap required for DC offset (not needed in DSD only).

2) no switch (not needed in DSD only).

3) no cap required in output (not use in of DSD Direct configuration).

Does this sound right?

**wisnon** · March 8, 2015, 11:44 AM

Not sure about the mechanism of point 3. It could be that the Cap is just bypassed with the push of a button…as is the case with AL.

Perhaps ADam is totally direct and no cap at all and no bypass.
The issue is the final cap can remove artifacts that exist on some recordings like tape transfers, etc without any great penalty, while direct gives you everything with no veil and no hiding place.

1 and 2 are correct to my understanding.

To be honest, I am not sure that 2 by itself can even be heard, but if you want to be an ultimatist, then you do like ADAM. Adam knows his stuff.

**Elberoth** · March 8, 2015, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio

Norman,

I agree regarding the PCM signal from Tidal to HQP but it would be nice to confirm your logic. I have a sneaky suspicion Adam has some insight here.

Regarding theoretical SQ improvements from DSD only, if I understand correctly, opting for both DSD only and DSD DIRECT configurations will achieve the following:

1) no cap required for DC offset (not needed in DSD only).

2) no switch (not needed in DSD only).

3) no cap required in output (not use in of DSD Direct configuration).

Does this sound right?

I would say yes to #1 and not sure about #2 and #3.

I'm not sure if the input switch (relay) is removed or not. I think it is still there. On my Lampi DSD only Level 5, I can still use the input selector button to change to other inputs (which are not present), and when that happens, DSD music stops playing. So I'm pretty sure the input selector part is still there.

Not sure if the Big 7 is the same - my remote does not have the input selector feature programmed in (either becouse it is not needed, and/or there is no input selector relay anymore).

Either way, I do not think it is a problem. The whole volume control board is full of relays anyway, so one more, or one less - shouldn't really matter.

Personally, I do not loose my sleep over this. Both fully featured Big 7 I had on loan prior getting my own, sounded sublime.

**wisnon** · March 8, 2015, 01:05 PM

Hi Adam,

I called and confirmed that yours does not have the switch. Really direct apprach of the purist.

I agree that the differences if any are small, but the combination of small steps may rise to the significant, who knows? I am very, very happy with mine, so the point is a bit moot for me.

**Dpod4** · March 8, 2015, 01:32 PM

Congrats. Looking forward to getting my dsd only and comparing to my vinyl rigs.

**wisnon** · March 8, 2015, 01:56 PM

Darren, what Transport will you use with it and what playback software?

Are you getting DSD256 with Vol control?

**kzhtoo** · March 8, 2015, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

Adam... Thanks for your feedback. I have already put forth an inquiry for a DSD only option with no SPDIF option as I also came up with the same conclusion. No SPDIF requirement, as well as having difficulty reconciling how this is even possible without a PCM capable feature set. :scratch:

Maybe a streamer like Lumin, which can up-sample everything to DSD and has a BNC SPDIF digital out?

**FlexibleAudio** · March 8, 2015, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

Maybe a streamer like Lumin, which can up-sample everything to DSD and has a BNC SPDIF digital out?

I wish they made the Lumin without the DAC!!

**wisnon** · March 8, 2015, 03:10 PM

What about the Aries?

I will get one and see if it can be Lampizated! :-)
Digi-Lamp+no hold br built in LPSU and solid metal chassis with wifi Antenna wires.

Lumin upsamples to DSD128 and Adam and the ultimatists want DSD256.

**wisnon** · March 8, 2015, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

Adam... Thanks for your feedback. I have already put forth an inquiry for a DSD only option with no SPDIF option as I also came up with the same conclusion. No SPDIF requirement, as well as having difficulty reconciling how this is even possible without a PCM capable feature set. :scratch:

A bare bones fully balanced dual mono DSD Golden Gate solution would be the ultimate. Given the extra chassis space that would be available, I'm wondering whether he would be receptive to a fully balanced configuration.... All I would want in such a box is the USB out & a 5v trigger input to turn the thing on & off.

A dream Golden Gate would be one that also had a balanced ADC solution. eg. features of the Ayre QA-9 DoP in and out via two discrete USB connections. A pre-amp to manage the analog line-in for ADC processing would be necessary here though.

Steve, your answer:
We are at the moment accepting pre-orders for the first batch of 5 builds of a 4-tube fully balanced Lite 7, Big 7 and G-G. However this DAC will NOT be able to accept tubes other than 101D.
Lukasz Fikus
LampizatOr

**FlexibleAudio** · March 8, 2015, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

What about the Aries?

I will get one and see if it can be Lampizated! :-)
Digi-Lamp+no hold br built in LPSU and solid metal chassis with wifi Antenna wires.

Lumin upsamples to DSD128 and Adam and the ultimatists want DSD256.

Yes, I was thinking about the Aries or a Caps pipeline as the best options, but if the Lumin can convert to dsd and upsample as part of the existing app that would be nice. I just don't want the dac.

The Aries has an interesting comment on its web site I am curious about:

"AURALiC has chose this platform for a long term supporting consideration, the feature planned include DSD upsampling, room acoustic treatment and other acoustic DSP function."

It sounds like something is coming but the translation from Mandarin is not totally clear to me. I wonder if it will convert and upsample on the fly???

**Elberoth** · March 8, 2015, 04:27 PM

Can you get the upsampled DSD signal out of Lumin via its SPDIF out ?

That would be in breach of DSD/SACD patents.

**FlexibleAudio** · March 8, 2015, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Can you get the upsampled DSD signal out of Lumin via its SPDIF out ?

That would be in breach of DSD/SACD patents.

It must be usb. Mike would know.

**FlexibleAudio** · March 8, 2015, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Can you get the upsampled DSD signal out of Lumin via its SPDIF out ?

That would be in breach of DSD/SACD patents.

Looks like DoP for spidf and hdmi for native. Hdmi must not be in violation of patents

OUTPUTS:
- ANALOG AUDIO:
  - XLR balanced, 4Vrms, pin 2 Hot
  - RCA unbalanced, 2Vrms
- DIGITAL AUDIO:
  - BNC SPDIF:
    - PCM 44.1kHz–192kHz, 16–24bit
    - DSD (DoP, DSD over PCM) 2.8MHz, 1bit
    HDMI:
    - PCM 44.1kHz–192kHz, 16–24bit
    - DSD (Native or DoP) 2.8MHz, 1bit

**wisnon** · March 8, 2015, 05:33 PM

The outputs are all DSD1x according to that list you posted.
I dont recall ever reading that the Lumin up samples DSD. The DStream Dac, the Nagra, Meitner, EMMLabs, etc, but not the Lumin.

The DStream uses FPGA to do this, but none can compete with the power of an i7 CAPS running HQP Polysinc filters. Even the i& running in core mode is challenged doing upsampling to 256 and above.

**FlexibleAudio** · March 8, 2015, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

The outputs are all DSD1x according to that list you posted.
I dont recall ever reading that the Lumin up samples DSD. The DStream Dac, the Nagra, Meitner, EMMLabs, etc, but not the Lumin.

The DStream uses FPGA to do this, but none can compete with the power of an i7 CAPS running HQP Polysinc filters. Even the i& running in core mode is challenged doing upsampling to 256 and above.

Not exactly sure what this means in S1 specs:

UPSAMPLING RATES & BIT DEPTHS:

DSD upsampling option for all files up to 96kHz

**kzhtoo** · March 8, 2015, 06:02 PM

There are options to upsample to DSD in Lumin app, but as pointed out above, it is DoP for SPDIF out.

**Mike** · March 8, 2015, 06:16 PM

Lumin HDMI is native DSD. BNC is DoP. DoP is merely using the PCM packet as a transport for the DSD file - it is NOT a conversion of the file from DSD to PCM way as some think. Sonically, should be very little if any difference.

The Lumin app can upsample/downsample or play natively - literally anything.

A Lampi with an HDMI input would be nice.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**FlexibleAudio** · March 8, 2015, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

The outputs are all DSD1x according to that list you posted.
I dont recall ever reading that the Lumin up samples DSD. The DStream Dac, the Nagra, Meitner, EMMLabs, etc, but not the Lumin.

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

There are options to upsample to DSD in Lumin app, but as pointed out above, it is DoP for SPDIF out.

Originally Posted by Mike

Lumin HDMI is native DSD. BNC is DoP. DoP is merely using the PCM packet as a transport for the DSD file - it is NOT a conversion of the file from DSD to PCM way as some think. Sonically, should be very little if any difference.

The Lumin app can upsample/downsample or play natively - literally anything.

A Lampi with an HDMI input would be nice.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So Norman I think the spec I posted showing 1x DSD outputs must be wrong. Good catch.

**FlexibleAudio** · March 8, 2015, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

A Lampi with an HDMI input would be nice.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True dat.

Mike have you ever heard anyone compare the sq of DSD on HDMI as opposed to USB?? It would be hard to keep it apples-to-apples with cable quality but just wondering.

**Mike** · March 8, 2015, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio

True dat.

Mike have you ever heard anyone compare the sq of DSD on HDMI as opposed to USB?? It would be hard to keep it apples-to-apples with cable quality but just wondering.

No. There are no HDMI DAC's that I'm aware of. I will tell you this much. The last two months I have spent a considerable amount of time with the Sonore Signature Rendu, Aurlic Aries, PC running JRiver, Audirvana, Pure Music, Mac's AND PC's, etc. The SSR is limited in functionality and still very geeky and requires a computer. The Aries is a great little piece, but lacks some core functionality (like DSD to PCM conversion on the fly for testing on the Devialet) and the Lighting DS app is buggy as hell and crashes. As for using the Windows PC/MAC with the aforementioned software, it was an exercise in continued frustration. Crashes, hang ups, computers shutting down for no reason, buggy drivers, wonky ipad apps to work with the programs, etc. - a MAJOR PITA.

Let me tell, you, there were little if any sonic gains for my frustrations. I have a new appreciation for the Lumin, not only for its overall sonic quality, but its ease of use, functionality & features and it just plain works! Yes, I'm biased, but damn - it's freaking awesome. Get a Lumin and get busy listening.

**Elberoth** · March 8, 2015, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio

Looks like DoP for spidf and hdmi for native. Hdmi must not be in violation of patents

OUTPUTS:
- ANALOG AUDIO:
  - XLR balanced, 4Vrms, pin 2 Hot
  - RCA unbalanced, 2Vrms
- DIGITAL AUDIO:
  - BNC SPDIF:
    - PCM 44.1kHz–192kHz, 16–24bit
    - DSD (DoP, DSD over PCM) 2.8MHz, 1bit
    HDMI:
    - PCM 44.1kHz–192kHz, 16–24bit
    - DSD (Native or DoP) 2.8MHz, 1bit

You are correct. Forgot about the whole DoP thing. Too bad it is only DSD 64 when Lampi can play DSD 256 (I listen to Alison Krauss 16/44 upsampled to DSD 256 in HQ Player right now).

**FlexibleAudio** · March 8, 2015, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

No. There are no HDMI DAC's that I'm aware of. I will tell you this much. The last two months I have spent a considerable amount of time with the Sonore Signature Rendu, Aurlic Aries, PC running JRiver, Audirvana, Pure Music, Mac's AND PC's, etc. The SSR is limited in functionality and still very geeky and requires a computer. The Aries is a great little piece, but lacks some core functionality (like DSD to PCM conversion on the fly for testing on the Devialet) and the Lighting DS app is buggy as hell and crashes. As for using the Windows PC/MAC with the aforementioned software, it was an exercise in continued frustration. Crashes, hang ups, computers shutting down for no reason, buggy drivers, wonky ipad apps to work with the programs, etc. - a MAJOR PITA.

Let me tell, you, there were little if any sonic gains for my frustrations. I have a new appreciation for the Lumin, not only for its overall sonic quality, but its ease of use, functionality & features and it just plain works! Yes, I'm biased, but damn - it's freaking awesome. Get a Lumin and get busy listening.

Get your boys to make one without a Dac and play native dsd through usb and we may have a deal.

**joeinid** · March 8, 2015, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

You are correct. Forgot about the whole DoP thing. Too bad it is only DSD 64 when Lampi can play DSD 256 (I listen to Alison Krauss 16/44 upsampled to DSD 256 in HQ Player right now).

Hi Adam,

So are you upsampling everything to DSD? From a computer?

Thanks!

**Dpod4** · March 9, 2015, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by wisnon

Darren, what Transport will you use with it and what playback software?

Are you getting DSD256 with Vol control?

I am just getting the DSD only - no double DSD unless Lukasz tells me it is worth it. And no volume control just mac with player DSD player app into usb input with unbalanced outputs into preamp.

I had Jennifer and Mike Crock from Jena labs over this weekend. We hooked my Hugo straight into my amps playing PCM and DSD. Even on Hugo which I think is better suited to pcm I preferred DSD. Just sounds more relaxed and non-electronic to my ears. My Modwright 5400es Will continue silver disc duty. The ken rad vt231 tubes warm things up a bit there.

**wisnon** · March 9, 2015, 04:53 AM

The basic DSD- only can play DSD64 and 128.(Single and double rate). DSD256 is Quad rate.
Dont get that confused with dual mono DSD configurration, as that can be up to 128 or 256 as well.

So you will use a Mac...that means by definition you cant play above DSD128, as Core Audio will not permit more than that. only Windows can play DSD256 and above. Will you use JRiver, HQ Player or Audirvana+?

Sounds like you are all set...ENJOY!

**wisnon** · March 9, 2015, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Hi Adam,

So are you upsampling everything to DSD? From a computer?

Thanks!

Yes, fully tricked out CAPs server (Win2012/AO/Core Mode) with HQ Player Polysinc filters for upsampling. Leading edge stuff.

Thread: Lampizator Big 7 has landed