The (good) old CD player

**highEndguy** · August 21, 2016, 08:00 PM

In a few weeks I'm going to hear if a CD Player sounds better than my Music server

My client bought a Neodio Origine ( 35,000 Euros)

Is insane to paid that Much for only a CD player, right ?

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**highEndguy** · August 21, 2016, 08:13 PM

In a few weeks I'm going to hear if a CD Player sounds better than my Music server

My client bought a Neodio Origine ( 35,000 Euros)

Is insane to paid that Much for only a CD player, right ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Mike** · August 21, 2016, 10:02 PM

**a.wayne** · August 21, 2016, 10:35 PM

My favorite and a great Oldie ..... Stax Quattro 2

**a.wayne** · August 21, 2016, 10:37 PM

**Alpinist** · August 22, 2016, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by BlueFox

This whole what sounds better, the CD player or the server, is mostly which has the better DAC, and analog output stage. The cables used on each piece of gear will also affect the sound one way or the other to some degree. It is not a simple A/B comparison.

Big +1. I feel my Esoteric K-01X transport is on a par with the best music servers. As Bud said, the DAC and analog output stage are the biggest determinants of sound in my opinion too.

Ken

**Elberoth** · August 22, 2016, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by highEndguy

In a few weeks I'm going to hear if a CD Player sounds better than my Music server

My client bought a Neodio Origine ( 35,000 Euros)

Is insane to paid that Much for only a CD player, right ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it is insane if you look how it is built inside. I really have trouble seeing a 35k eur worth of CDP inside:

**Rhapsody** · August 22, 2016, 07:39 AM

Or you could get the Vitus SCD025 cdp/dac for $13K less

**Mike** · August 22, 2016, 07:42 AM

And the Vitus has USB input and handles DSD.

**Steve** · August 22, 2016, 09:08 AM

Quantum chips in the Neodio?

**Elberoth** · August 22, 2016, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Rhapsody

Or you could get the Vitus SCD025 cdp/dac for $13K less

Now we are talking !

**Rhapsody** · August 22, 2016, 10:03 AM

I'm sure the Neodio sounds wonderful, but $35K for, like Mike said, no usb or DSD and what Adam illustrated with the "inside view" just doesn't add up. I have heard that in other parts of the globe the Neodio is highly regarded for cd playback.

Nelson, let us know how it sounds once you hear your customer's Neodio, once it arrives and breaks in.

It get's worse, I thought it was $35K usd, it's Euros so almost $40K usd, almost twice the cost of a Vitus SCD025 or multiples of MANY other very good sounding cdp's.

**aardvarkbark** · August 22, 2016, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Rhapsody

....It get's worse, I thought it was $35K usd, it's Euros so almost $40K usd, almost twice the cost of a Vitus SCD025 or multiples of MANY other very good sounding cdp's.

'worse' is a relative term. Personally, I'm grateful for a free market environment where one may choose to spend how much they want on what they want, regardless of judgment by others.

**Rhapsody** · August 22, 2016, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by aardvarkbark

'worse' is a relative term. Personally, I'm grateful for a free market environment where one may choose to spend how much they want on what they want, regardless of judgment by others.

Yes, I agree. I was using "worse" with regard only to my comment that I thought the player was $35Kusd and not Euros, nothing implied as to whether it was actually worth the price or not. To many who already own the Neodio, and they do have a strong following, especially in Asia, the price seems to be fair.

Btw, I've sold three $200K Goldmund Reference BLu-Ray players in the last two years. The customers that purchased them could care less about what others think about their buying decision. They like it and that's all that matters to them and that's the way it should be.

**aardvarkbark** · August 22, 2016, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Now we are talking !

I'm dubious about the ability to infer quality of sound based on an image of electronics. Is it the pretty twisted blue and white wiring that infers superior sonics?

Imagine if cars were evaluated based on images of their engines.

**Rhapsody** · August 22, 2016, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by aardvarkbark

I'm dubious about the ability to infer quality of sound based on an image of electronics. Is it the pretty twisted blue and white wiring that infers superior sonics?

Imagine if cars were evaluated based on images of their engines.

No, it's not the blue/white wiring, it's the layout of the very sophisticated AND expensive electronic components that fill the Vitus box.

The evaluation is based on the sonics and the SCD025 delivers in spades and I would not even say that is subjective, come for a visit and experience for yourself.

**volks** · August 22, 2016, 04:16 PM

The CDP is still a major part of my Audio System and I use it almost every time I have a listening session,except when I am listening to Vinyl of course or using my Olive as background music. In the past year I have had the chance to play around with diff music streamers/servers ....Lumin, Aurender and Brystons effort . While all 3 sounded very good......neither made me want to jump ship or ditch my CDP in the least. If anything it did the opposite ......it made me realize I dont need to fork over any $$$ , because I am very satisfied with my CDP

**Rhapsody** · August 22, 2016, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by volks

The CDP is still a major part of my Audio System and I use it almost every time I have a listening session,except when I am listening to Vinyl of course or using my Olive as background music. In the past year I have had the chance to play around with diff music streamers/servers ....Lumin, Aurender and Brystons effort . While all 3 sounded very good......neither made me want to jump ship or ditch my CDP in the least. If anything it did the opposite ......it made me realize I dont need to fork over any $$$ , because I am very satisfied with my CDP

Congrats Volks, it's great to be satisfied and just enjoy the music!

**Randy Myers** · August 22, 2016, 04:28 PM

Very nice!

**Elberoth** · August 23, 2016, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by aardvarkbark

I'm dubious about the ability to infer quality of sound based on an image of electronics. Is it the pretty twisted blue and white wiring that infers superior sonics?

Imagine if cars were evaluated based on images of their engines.

I do not agree. You do not have to be an engineer, to be able to tell if some small car manufacturer charging you Ferrari V12 money, for what is VW inline 4 engine.

The VW inline 4 may be a great engine. But it has to be priced accordingly.

**Old Bob** · August 23, 2016, 07:13 AM

Mike you ignorant slut: (Saturday night live reference)
you said:

"(Side note: I have found a lot of my older....uhh...experienced clients are using CD's and have no interest in ripping). "
yep, Mike is talking specifically about me! ha! as an ancient, age 64, I love music, and am re-learning everything I never knew about stereo.

so far, I have found that 2 bowers wilkins speakers, one REL subwoofer, another to follow, a triode tube integrated amp, have VASTLY improved my sound.

next: the source, ahh, there's the rub. a great sacd/cd player? vinyl? computer? I have no ax to grind and would try any source.

my goal: GREAT sound and super soundstage, at a decent price, regardless of source.

my question: what source should I use?

I may say that anyone having fear about "ripping" can always find help. if I find digital files give the best sound, I will get help, and do it. I may say I DID hear from my Deutchegrammophone CD, at a store,with bowers diamond speakers and huge McIntosh mono amps, the berlin philharmonic. it sounded like they were in the room. wow.

thanks guys!
best,
bob

**Mike** · August 23, 2016, 07:51 AM

Bob,

Computer audio is not for the faint of heart. But once it's set up properly, the convenience and sonics many will argue, quickly erase any early frustrations.

You will need an Ethernet cable which is connected to your network in your listening room. You can do wireless, but things can get a little complicated fast.

For the money, a Lumin D1 with the Sbooster power supply, with a Lumin L1 for storage, is simple to setup (provided you have a network) and sounds superb. You will also need an iPad.

You rip your CD's to your computer, than connect the Lumin L1 to your computer and then copy the files to your L1. Once done, disconnect the L1 and ensure it and your Lumin D1 are plugged into your router or a switch in your listening room.

Launch the Lumin iPad app, find the D1 and sit back and relax and enjoy your entire music collection at your finger tips.

Another option is the all in one solution from Aurender. The new Aurender A10 has essentially a Lumin L1 and D1 in one box and its MQA ready.

**Old Bob** · August 23, 2016, 08:40 AM

THANKS MIKE!
I may say that I cannot imagine a $200,000 goldmund blu ray player mentioned by rhapsody! wow!
however, I AM grateful we have such rich and deep experience here on your forum! while way out of my league, it DOES encourage me to stretch and get a SUPER CD player.

I DO go to the boston symphony several times a year. there is something about a live performance.

highlights:

Evgeny Kissin playing Tchaikovsky Piano concerto # 1. not only the sound, but the visual experience, AND speaking with him after the concert. very polite, and no ego. seeing his fingers blur with speed. Price: $50

highlight: the Berlin Philharmonic playing beethovens 5th and 6th symphonies. WOW. loud, and clear. and fast!

as far as CD players: Dan Wright from ModWright explained to me exactly how him modifying an Oppo 105 CD player would give it GREAT soundstage. sounded pretty convincing!

thanks guys! lots of SUPER ideas here!

best,

Bob

**Mike** · August 23, 2016, 09:06 AM

Bob,

The ModWright Oppo is a great piece. You're kind of no the cusp of computer audio vs CD/SACD player. No right or wrong way to go - it's just whatever you feel more comfortable with.

Mike

**Randy Myers** · August 23, 2016, 09:31 AM

Another good choice is the Marantz players. I looked at the Oppo players and they looked like good machines, but I wanted a spinner that played only CDs and SACDs. Basically a music only spinner, no video (blu-ray etc.).

Marantz also make some fairly high level models that are way out of my budget. I ended up picking a SA8005 model from recommendations both on here and elsewhere. So far it is a fabulous machine that sounds amazing to me!

Computer audio can also be done on your own computer. The music servers work very well, and from what I hear are easier for those folks who are more computer challenged. Using a computer as a music server is not that difficult of a task however.

Apple computers are certainly not the only alternatives (or iPads). I have a Windows PC setup as a dedicated music server hooked to my stereo through USB (I also run the USB through a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery which makes a really nice improvement to the USB signal). Most any computer can work, but improvements can be made by configuring and setting up the computer to optimize music usage. I then use Roon software running as a headless server on the server PC and Roon controller software running on a Microsoft Surface Pro 3 (another PC computer by the way). The Surface works as a wonderful controller for Roon.

As Mike stated, there are alternatives and whatever works best for you.

**Old Bob** · August 23, 2016, 09:51 AM

THANKS RANDY!!!

have heard LOTS of good things about Marantz players, especially that SA 8005

have a great day! bob

**Mike** · August 23, 2016, 11:37 AM

http://noisey.vice.com/en_uk/blog/wh...ve-cds-so-much

**aardvarkbark** · August 23, 2016, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Rhapsody

No, it's not the blue/white wiring, it's the layout of the very sophisticated AND expensive electronic components ....

I simply wonder whether one can judge sonics based on a visual of the electronics.

Can you honestly say how this sounds relative to a picture of another's board?

**Rhapsody** · August 23, 2016, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by aardvarkbark

I simply wonder whether one can judge sonics based on a visual of the electronics.

Can you honestly say how this sounds relative to a picture of another's board?

Aardvarkbark, Of course you cannot tell what something will sound like based on "a look inside" OR especially by the pic of a pcb. What we (Adam and I) were saying is the Neodio for $40K does not look like it has much more than a few components/boards inside. Meaning the cost could not really be that much to manufacture and so why the high sales price.

When you look at the inside of a case and see 10 boards and a lot of custom ic's it does appear that there has been a lot that has gone into the design and the parts to manufacture the device is "probably" much more than a case with a few boards sitting inside a case.

In fact the simple design may very well sound better than the complex design. You would not know unless you compared them and then of course personal preference comes into play.

Our point is that when you look inside the Neodio it is just hard to comprehend a $40K usd retail price based on the parts/boards that are very visible. As I also stated the Neodio has a great following especially in Asia. I am sure that it sounds great. For me personally to buy a cdp without a usb input and no dsd for $40K is hard to swallow at this point. But again, I am sure the Neodio is great sounding on redbook cd's.

The Vitus SCD025, I know from personal experience is a world class digital piece, not from what's inside but from listening to it. And then when you look at the internal layout you could understand that $22K might be reasonable based on sound quality as well as the parts that were used to manufacture the device.

Hope this helps to explain our comments.

**kevinkwann** · August 23, 2016, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Rhapsody

Our point is that when you look inside the Neodio it is just hard to comprehend a $40K usd retail price based on the parts/boards that are very visible. As I also stated the Neodio has a great following especially in Asia. I am sure that it sounds great. For me personally to buy a cdp without a usb input and no dsd for $40K is hard to swallow at this point. But again, I am sure the Neodio is great sounding on redbook cd's.

Hope this helps to explain our comments.

More "ack." It's everywhere. Thank you Jim Smith for making us aware.

Maybe before making the same point over and over again about this player, you should check your facts. They're available on Neodio's website. And elsewhere.

"2 RCA and USB 24 bit/192kHz digital inputs"

I know nothing more about the player than that. But then I'm not the one making erroneous assumptions and comments about it on the 'net.
24 bit/192 kHz digital in

**highEndguy** · August 23, 2016, 04:06 PM

The unit arrived and have a USB but no DSD

**Randy Myers** · August 23, 2016, 04:29 PM

Does it play SA-CD? (I don't see the symbol/logo on the front that I have seen on every SA-CD player).... looks like a nice machine but even if I could afford this type of machine without the ability of decoding DSD (to at least quad DSD; DSD64, DSD128, and DSD256) and no SA-CD playback it would be a non-starter for me.

**Rhapsody** · August 23, 2016, 07:03 PM

The USB comment was regarding the Neodio NOT DOING DSD via usb.... that was the point about the USB.

As I've said 20 times I'm sure that sounds great and it has a very strong following. Looks beautiful on the outside as well.

I have not been making the same point over and over. Aardvark just asked very reasonable questions and I answered them nothing more nothing less.

24/192 is not dsd.

Kevinwann, thank you for the lecture.

**Mike** · August 23, 2016, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Rhapsody

The USB does NOT DO DSD.... that was the point about the USB.

I really could care less about a $40K cdp. As I've said 20 times I'm sure that sounds great but has a very strong following.

Bob are you referring to the Vitus SCD-025?

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**Rhapsody** · August 23, 2016, 07:23 PM

No the Neodio does not do dsd, the scd025 does.

**Rhapsody** · August 23, 2016, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by highEndguy

The unit arrived and have a USB but no DSD

Nelson,

Looking forward to hear your impressions after it breaks in.

**kevinkwann** · August 23, 2016, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Rhapsody

The USB comment was regarding the Neodio NOT DOING DSD via usb.... that was the point about the USB.

I have not been making the same point over and over.

"I'm sure the Neodio sounds wonderful, but $35K for, like Mike said, no usb or DSD and what Adam illustrated with the "inside view" just doesn't add up."

"For me personally to buy a cdp without a usb input and no dsd for $40K is hard to swallow at this point."

Your denials are as convincing as Ryan Lochte's.

**kiwi_1282001** · August 23, 2016, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

http://noisey.vice.com/en_uk/blog/wh...ve-cds-so-much

Interesting article Mike and my travels in Japan confirm that CD is indeed alive and kicking in that country -- along with massive high efficiency loudspeakers and tiny tube amplifiers.

The Japanese are true collectors. Physical CD's are prized (and valued) for their quality, pressing and scarcity and would you believe that certain CD's outperform other forms of traditional investment in terms of capital gain?

**Mike** · August 23, 2016, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by kevinkwann

"I'm sure the Neodio sounds wonderful, but $35K for, like Mike said, no usb or DSD and what Adam illustrated with the "inside view" just doesn't add up."

"For me personally to buy a cdp without a usb input and no dsd for $40K is hard to swallow at this point."

Your denials are as convincing as Ryan Lochte's.

Kevin - personal attacks are not permitted. Please cut it out.

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**j2020** · September 5, 2016, 09:52 PM

Coming back to topic, I do miss the simplicity of the old cd player.

But now, I just can't live without the simplicity of having my entire music collection at my fingertips on a tablet.

**Mike** · September 5, 2016, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by j2020

Coming back to topic, I do miss the simplicity of the old cd player.

But now, I just can't live without the simplicity of having my entire music collection at my fingertips on a tablet.

I don't know about you, but I buy a lot of music (vinyl and CD's, some downloads). When a stack of new CD's arrive, I just sigh. I know there will be ripping chores to do when all I want to do is listen! So, it's nice to rip that CD open and pop it in the tray. Ripping can wait.

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**j2020** · September 5, 2016, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

I don't know about you, but I buy a lot of music (vinyl and CD's, some downloads). When a stack of new CD's arrive, I just sigh. I know there will be ripping chores to do when all I want to do is listen! So, it's nice to rip that CD open and pop it in the tray. Ripping can wait.

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Brick-and-mortar cd shops in my locale are vanishing very, very rapidly. Big names like Tower Records and Borders are all gone.
The new cd titles don't come into the smaller shops fast enough.
So I am left to downloading new music. Paying Amazon to ship the few new cd titles every now and then isn't as good an option as simply downloading them.

mauidan · September 5, 2016, 10:03 PM

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...rs-2000-10000/

**Mike** · September 5, 2016, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by j2020

Brick-and-mortar cd shops in my locale are vanishing very, very rapidly. Big names like Tower Records and Borders are all gone.
The new cd titles don't come into the smaller shops fast enough.
So I am left to downloading new music. Paying Amazon to ship the few new cd titles every now and then isn't as good an option as simply downloading them.

I have Amazon Prime (awesome!) and order my CD's and SACD's on line and they come in 2 days.

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**j2020** · September 5, 2016, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

I have Amazon Prime (awesome!) and order my CD's and SACD's on line and they come in 2 days.

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You probably order a lot at a time or quite regularly to make the cost per month worthwhile.
It isn't the same for me, not being in the business.

**Mike** · September 5, 2016, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by j2020

You probably order a lot at a time to make the cost worthwhile.
It isn't the same for me, not being in the business.

Amazon Prime is an annual fee ($70???). Then that gives you lots of benefits including FREE two day shipping.

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**j2020** · September 5, 2016, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Amazon Prime is an annual fee ($70???). Then that gives you lots of benefits including FREE two day shipping.

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On the website, it is $10.99 a month or about $132 annually.
Would be ok if I want to order CD/SACD's on a regular basis.
But my old cd player is gone and I am now left to downloading only.

**Alpinist** · September 5, 2016, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

I have Amazon Prime (awesome!) and order my CD's and SACD's on line and they come in 2 days.

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Hi Mike,

I have so many SACD's, I really couldn't think of getting rid of my CD/SACD player. It is possible to do a bit-perfect rip with SACD's now or is there some compromise due to the rights protection?

Best,
Ken

**Randy Myers** · September 6, 2016, 01:56 AM

I am really loving spinning Cds and SACDs along with music server lately!

**wisnon** · September 6, 2016, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Hi Mike,

I have so many SACD's, I really couldn't think of getting rid of my CD/SACD player. It is possible to do a bit-perfect rip with SACD's now or is there some compromise due to the rights protection?

Best,
Ken

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f1...ts-true-29251/

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