Going a Roon One More Time

**Mike** · July 29, 2017, 12:10 PM

As James Taylor sings on his wonderful 1985 That's Why I'm Here album, I'm going around one more time....with Roon.

When Roon was first quietly announced in the back pages of some audio magazine in 2015, I remember signing up as a beta tester. The former founders of Sooloos know a thing or two about building a sexy interface. I remember getting the beta up and running and frankly, it showed promise, but I wasn't impressed. I remember muttering something like, "I'll check back on these guys in a couple of years."

Well, here we are, a couple of years later. Earlier this week, I signed up as a Roon reseller, installed Roon on my MacBook Pro running 2.9 Ghz, Intel Core i7 with 8GB of RAM. As a proper Roon endpoint, I am using the Ayre QX-5 Twenty (connected via ethernet).

Install was a snap. No, seriously, a snap. If I'm being picky, there are probably too many options, but with a little patience you get through the various choices for backing up your music on a schedule, etc.

You select the directories where your music is located (locally or network) and Roon immediately starts building it's library. I especially like the fact that Roon works diligently to find all meta data - including album artwork and lyrics for your music collection. You then point Roon toward the Roon endpoint (Ayre QX-5 Twenty in my case) and you're good to go. Could it seriously be this easy? Well, so far, the answer is a resounding - yes!

I plan on testing Roon with the Lumin U1 and A1 over the next week as well.

At this stage, Roon has been building its directory with my music collection for 24 hours and it's not yet finished.

I tried an initial listen, but there were too many drop outs and hiccups. I suspect it was because my Macbook Pro was busy with processing the library.

I will report back once the library build is finished on listening and living with Roon.

But so far, so good.

**Dr Tone** · July 29, 2017, 02:53 PM

Your background processing shouldn't cause issues with playback if you have the analysis set to throttled. You have a decent cpu, not low end by any means.

Of course if you are trying to do all this over wifi that's a different story.

**Mike** · July 29, 2017, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Tone

Your background processing shouldn't cause issues with playback if you have the analysis set to throttled. You have a decent cpu, not low end by any means.

Of course if you are trying to do all this over wifi that's a different story.

Ethernet. And it is jittery while Roon is tackling my library. Once it's done, I'll report back.

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**Kingsrule** · July 29, 2017, 03:31 PM

A MacBook Pro roon core isn't going to cut it Mike. Get a dedicated core computer

**Mike** · July 29, 2017, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

A MacBook Pro roon core isn't going to cut it Mike. Get a dedicated core computer

Due to drop outs or sonics?

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**still-one** · July 29, 2017, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

A MacBook Pro roon core isn't going to cut it Mike. Get a dedicated core computer

I'm using a MacBook Pro as core wirelessly and have absolutely no issue. My music is stored on a usb drive attached to my Time Capsule.

**Dr Tone** · July 29, 2017, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

A MacBook Pro roon core isn't going to cut it Mike. Get a dedicated core computer

Macbook Pro should be fine unless he plans on doing DSD512 upsampling or something.

**Dr Tone** · July 29, 2017, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Ethernet. And it is jittery while Roon is tackling my library. Once it's done, I'll report back.

It shouldn't be. You are going to continually have problems with the various things Roon does if it's already stuttering.

What's your storage solution?

**Mike** · July 29, 2017, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Tone

It shouldn't be. You are going to continually have problems with the various things Roon does if it's already stuttering.

What's your storage solution?

Synology 1812+. 8 x 8TB WD red spec drives.

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**Mike** · July 29, 2017, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Tone

It shouldn't be. You are going to continually have problems with the various things Roon does if it's already stuttering.

What's your storage solution?

It's finished, so it's fine now.

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**Dr Tone** · July 29, 2017, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Synology 1812+. 8 x 8TB WD red spec drives.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What does your network load look like when trying to play and scan at the same time?

Did you confirm that background and on-demand scanning are set to throttled? Settings->Library.

**Mike** · July 29, 2017, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Tone

What does your network load look like when trying to play and scan at the same time?

Did you confirm that background and on-demand scanning are set to throttled? Settings->Library.

It's done loading, so it's good now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**asiufy** · July 29, 2017, 07:01 PM

Make sure you have the DSP Engine disabled for every audio output device you configure. The default is ON, rather unfortunately.
Click on the gears next to the device name, and choose "DSP Engine", then disable it. By having it on, you get worse sound, and more CPU usage.

cheers,
alex

**Mike** · July 29, 2017, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by asiufy

Make sure you have the DSP Engine disabled for every audio output device you configure. The default is ON, rather unfortunately.
Click on the gears next to the device name, and choose "DSP Engine", then disable it. By having it on, you get worse sound, and more CPU usage.

cheers,
alex

It is.

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**the professor** · July 29, 2017, 10:48 PM

Thats great Mike. I've never tried Roon. When I get more time to play with my system, I'll have to give it a go.

**bibo01** · July 29, 2017, 11:23 PM

I quite like Roon and use it extensively together with HQPlayer.
However, how it deals with classical music really bothers me, especially with compilations. It is most definitely sub par.
Nowadays there are many of those on the market, like complete works of Maria Callas or Richter and son on. They often add up to 20 or 50 CDs (sometimes even more). Most of the times Roon recognizes those publications, but if I click on the album, I only see a long list of Disc 1-50, without the possibility of choosing a particular work or composer. Let's say, however, that I remember that the particular Beethoven's piano concerto that I wish to listen to is on Disc 18, 19 or 20. Very often, if I click on any particular Disc, although the work is identified correctly, there is no composer tag which often makes it very difficult to choose from the library properly. On top of that, it is not possible to enter tag manually for single tracks or a whole CD with composer's name. Even if I do a "Beethoven piano concerto" search, that particular work I want cannot be found because it has no composer tag attached to it.
In short, classical compilations in Roon are a pain. It is better, if possible, to cut them down to single publication; however, it implies a considerable amount of manual work on the database.

**joeinid** · July 30, 2017, 02:54 AM

Welcome to the forum bibo01, thank you so much for joining.

**asiufy** · July 30, 2017, 03:10 AM

bibo,

The idea with Roon is that you won't have to find in which CD that particular piano concerto is, just do a search for it, and it'll show you all the versions/performances of that piano concerto you have, including that one buried in Disc 18 of that compilation

The key is keeping all the metadata of your files correct, so Roon identifies which tracks belong to which piece/work.

Since I'm still learning about classical music in general, it's so easy to search for a given piece and see all the performances I have currently available (+ all the stuff on Tidal as well!), so it's very easy to compare the different performances and recordings.

cheers,
alex

**bibo01** · July 30, 2017, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Welcome to the forum bibo01, thank you so much for joining.

Thanks.
I didn't realize that it was my first post, although I had been following for a while

Cheers,

Gianluca

**bibo01** · July 30, 2017, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by asiufy

bibo,

The idea with Roon is that you won't have to find in which CD that particular piano concerto is, just do a search for it, and it'll show you all the versions/performances of that piano concerto you have, including that one buried in Disc 18 of that compilation

The key is keeping all the metadata of your files correct, so Roon identifies which tracks belong to which piece/work.

Since I'm still learning about classical music in general, it's so easy to search for a given piece and see all the performances I have currently available (+ all the stuff on Tidal as well!), so it's very easy to compare the different performances and recordings.

cheers,
alex

I agree that it should be the norm in Roon. Unfortunately, for classical music the metadata in the database is often incomplete. Therefore, if you do a search by composer for a particular work, you probably are not going to find it if it was part of a compilation.
Furthermore, personally I may want to begin from a musician/singer/conductor and then make a selection of one of his/her works ...but if the works are not listed singularly, how can I make a selection?!

**Zaheer** · July 30, 2017, 07:37 AM

Hello Mike
I have installed roon on my CAPS Zuma build (LPS) to be used with the melco + Lumin u1 (From Roon interface , i selected the "share" folder .. output selected as Lumin)
Then I tried also the CAPS Zuma serving music (stored on SSD again LPSupplied 5v from HD plx) to the Lumin U1
The router is a Dlink gigabyte , powered by a LPS
All RJ 45 are in CAT 6 ,isolated
Well , Roon is a huge deception compared to the Lumin U1 + Melco functionning alone
Roon delivers a less clearer sound .. then it's all about taste or the Melco + Lumin being a better isolated combination
Cheers

**Mike** · July 30, 2017, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Zaheer

Hello Mike
I have installed roon on my CAPS Zuma build (LPS) to be used with the melco + Lumin u1 (From Roon interface , i selected the "share" folder .. output selected as Lumin)
Then I tried also the CAPS Zuma serving music (stored on SSD again LPSupplied 5v from HD plx) to the Lumin U1
The router is a Dlink gigabyte , powered by a LPS
All RJ 45 are in CAT 6 ,isolated
Well , Roon is a huge deception compared to the Lumin U1 + Melco functionning alone
Roon delivers a less clearer sound .. then it's all about taste or the Melco + Lumin being a better isolated combination
Cheers

Yes, it's hard to beat the sonics of the Lumin with the Lumin app (or the Aurender with the Aurender app).

**tdimler** · July 30, 2017, 12:45 PM

The Lumin U1 does look like a great piece. The app looks good too. That is one thing that doesn't turn me on about Roon...the app looks too busy. I am currently using Audirvana and among other things I like about is the fact that the control app interface is simple and clean.

One thing I am not clear about regarding Roon is exactly how it interfaces with a product which has a "Roon Ready" network streaming card...like a few DAC's now include. Do you still have to have a computer running as a "core" or does the network card solution eliminate this? An example would be the new network card available on the Bricasti M1.

**wklie** · July 30, 2017, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by tdimler

One thing I am not clear about regarding Roon is exactly how it interfaces with a product which has a "Roon Ready" network streaming card...like a few DAC's now include. Do you still have to have a computer running as a "core" or does the network card solution eliminate this?

Yes. No matter you use a Roon Ready device, or a USB DAC, you still have to have a high-power computer (or NAS) running the Roon Core.

**rrwmd** · July 30, 2017, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Zaheer

Hello Mike
I have installed roon on my CAPS Zuma build (LPS) to be used with the melco + Lumin u1 (From Roon interface , i selected the "share" folder .. output selected as Lumin)
Then I tried also the CAPS Zuma serving music (stored on SSD again LPSupplied 5v from HD plx) to the Lumin U1
The router is a Dlink gigabyte , powered by a LPS
All RJ 45 are in CAT 6 ,isolated
Well , Roon is a huge deception compared to the Lumin U1 + Melco functionning alone
Roon delivers a less clearer sound .. then it's all about taste or the Melco + Lumin being a better isolated combination
Cheers

This has been my experience as well.

Roon just seems a bit more diffuse and hazy compared to Lumin direct.

**Dr Tone** · July 30, 2017, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by wklie

Yes. No matter you use a Roon Ready device, or a USB DAC, you still have to have a high-power computer (or NAS) running the Roon Core.

You don't need a "high powered" computer. Allot of people run roon core on lowly atom based NAS devices.

**asiufy** · July 30, 2017, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Tone

You don't need a "high powered" computer. Allot of people run roon core on lowly atom based NAS devices.

You don't, unless you want to upsample or mess with the DSP settings.
For general use, memory (8Gb at least) and SSD drives for Roon's data files are more important than pure CPU power.

**baddog** · July 30, 2017, 09:24 PM

As an FYI the Roon team has never recommended more than 8GB of memory, they in fact note they don't need it nor use it.

I am using a Intel NUC6i5SYH with Roon. Not sure if you consider that a high power computer or not, regardless it has no issue using DSP settings nor upsampling. YMMV.

This link may be helpful of those wondering what configuration might be required.

**CGabriel** · July 30, 2017, 10:50 PM

A second for the Intel NUC running ROON ROCK.
Simple, easy. Serves all your computers, portables and end-points.
Small and quiet and can be located in a small closet.

**Mike** · July 30, 2017, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by CGabriel

A second for the Intel NUC running ROON ROCK.
Simple, easy. Serves all your computers, portables and end-points.
Small and quiet and can be located in a small closet.

ROCK is the Linux version of Roon Core specifically designed for NUC's?

**baddog** · July 30, 2017, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

ROCK is the Linux version of Roon Core specifically designed for NUC's?

Oui. With some nice extras, such as being able to manage certain aspects via a WEB GUI (including shutdown).

And a stripped down Operating System maintained by Roon.

**Devg** · July 31, 2017, 02:16 AM

Have been using ROCK since it came out on a customized audio PC. ROCK really Rocks

**nonesup** · July 31, 2017, 09:13 AM

ROCK is not Roon Core. It is a very lightweight, Unix-based Operating System for NUC, which is devoid of everything that is not necessary to run Roon Core.

**Kingsrule** · July 31, 2017, 09:57 AM

Its all about the sonics, isn't it Mike?

All those who keep saying it works with their computers are not considering sonics. It works, but how does it sound???

ROCK, the Nucleus (YTBD) thats on the way, or at minimum a stripped down DEDICATED Windows machine with an ssd hd is required to get the best from Roon. The SonicTransporter I7 also looks like it fits the bill

**Dr Tone** · July 31, 2017, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

Its all about the sonics, isn't it Mike?

All those who keep saying it works with their computers are not considering sonics. It works, but how does it sound???

ROCK, the Nucleus (YTBD) thats on the way, or at minimum a stripped down DEDICATED Windows machine with an ssd hd is required to get the best from Roon. The SonicTransporter I7 also looks like it fits the bill

Mike is using a network endpoint. The core computer doesn't have a sound in that scenario. If it's direct connect DAC that's a different story.

**Devg** · July 31, 2017, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Tone

Mike is using a network endpoint. The core computer doesn't have a sound in that scenario.

Unfortunately it does. There are tons of unknown variables which influences the sound - be it at the server end or at the endpoint doesn't matter. For example, I find a big difference if music files are configured from NAS vs local HDD in Roon and then there is differences if the HDD is a spinning drive vs an SDD. Lot of these, in theory, are driven from EMI/RFI/timing/jitter etc etc and afaik, there is no physical measurements to prove it one way or other, only empirical data. Sometimes these changes are subtle, sometimes not - depending on how transparent your rest of the system is, the changes can be easily heard. At least in computer audio, everything matters, everything

**Mike** · July 31, 2017, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Devg

Unfortunately it does. There are tons of unknown variables which influences the sound - be it at the server end or at the endpoint doesn't matter. For example, I find a big difference if music files are configured from NAS vs local HDD in Roon and then there is differences if the HDD is a spinning drive vs an SDD. Lot of these, in theory, are driven from EMI/RFI/timing/jitter etc etc and afaik, there is no physical measurements to prove it one way or other, only empirical data. Sometimes these changes are subtle, sometimes not - depending on how transparent your rest of the system is, the changes can be easily heard. At least in computer audio, everything matters, everything

Given this, what's absolute best for Roon? A NUC? Isn't Roon producing a NUC called the Nucleus?

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**Devg** · July 31, 2017, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Given this, what's absolute best for Roon? A NUC? Isn't Roon producing a NUC called the Nucleus?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, Roon's version of turn-key NUC is Nucleus. I maybe wrong but think its priced probably at $2k.

**nonesup** · July 31, 2017, 03:35 PM

Unfortunately it does. There are tons of unknown variables which influences the sound - be it at the server end or at the endpoint doesn't matter. For example, I find a big difference if music files are configured from NAS vs local HDD in Roon and then there is differences if the HDD is a spinning drive vs an SDD. Lot of these, in theory, are driven from EMI/RFI/timing/jitter etc etc and afaik, there is no physical measurements to prove it one way or other, only empirical data. Sometimes these changes are subtle, sometimes not - depending on how transparent your rest of the system is, the changes can be easily heard. At least in computer audio, everything matters, everything

+1
So it is on my system with a Lumin network endpoint.
I almost did not use Roon, because I prefer the Melco direct connection to Lumin.

**Devg** · July 31, 2017, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Given this, what's absolute best for Roon? A NUC? Isn't Roon producing a NUC called the Nucleus?

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Originally Posted by Devg

Yes, Roon's version of turn-key NUC is Nucleus. I maybe wrong but think its priced probably at $2k.

If you are getting a NUC to run the ROCK, I would encourage you to get a decent power supply. Depending on what DAC you will use, you might not even need an endpoint by adding some kind of isolation device and re-clocker. I use PS Audio DS with Singxer SU1 over I2S and was able to get rid of the endpoint (microRendu) and go directly from ROCK. In a long time, my system hasn't sounded this good. If your DAC is USB only, I bet a ISO-Regen will provide the same benefit.

**Mike** · July 31, 2017, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Devg

If you are getting a NUC to run the ROCK, I would encourage you to get a decent power supply. Depending on what DAC you will use, you might not even need an endpoint by adding some kind of isolation device and re-clocker. I use PS Audio DS with Singxer SU1 over I2S and was able to get rid of the endpoint (microRendu) and go directly from ROCK. In a long time, my system hasn't sounded this good. If your DAC is USB only, I bet a ISO-Regen will provide the same benefit.

Thanks. I'm using the iFi USB 3.0 with great results.

**Kingsrule** · July 31, 2017, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Tone

Mike is using a network endpoint. The core computer doesn't have a sound in that scenario. If it's direct connect DAC that's a different story.

U better reread all the Roon docs....I'm using a network endpoint and everything matters

**Kingsrule** · July 31, 2017, 04:32 PM

I'm really thinking the SonicTransporter I7 is the way to go vs a NUC or Nucleus.....the specs are just over the top vs. the Roon position of this is all u need.

**Mike** · July 31, 2017, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

I'm really thinking the SonicTransporter I7 is the way to go vs a NUC or Nucleus.....the specs are just over the top vs. the Roon position of this is all u need.

I was just reading about it.

**Dr Tone** · July 31, 2017, 04:35 PM

I don't have to read articles to understand TCP/IP network data delivery, buffering and reclocking. If you guys hear things which make you spend more money on your servers, all the better for those particular manufacturers.

**Devg** · July 31, 2017, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Thanks. I'm using the iFi USB 3.0 with great results.

iFI USB 3.0 also has galvanic isolation and a reclocker. So you are good....

**Mike** · July 31, 2017, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Devg

iFI USB 3.0 also has galvanic isolation and a reclocker. So you are good....

I really like it. I have a couple of demos here if anyone wants to try one. I also have the iFi 2 to 1 USB cable which helps separate the power from the audio on the USB line.

Just PM me if anyone wants to try one.

**Devg** · July 31, 2017, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Tone

I don't have to read articles to understand TCP/IP network data delivery, buffering and reclocking. If you guys hear things which make you spend more money on your servers, all the better for those particular manufacturers.

I haven't read any of the Roon articles and you really don't need to understand TCP/IP, buffering and all those things...I was a firm believer of "bits are bits", until I started hearing the benefits. As I said earlier, there is a large amount of unknowns in computer audio today and digital circuits are far complex in nature than analog - once you have a system with processor, ram, network, storage its a different ballgame and no more a simple design.

**Mike** · July 31, 2017, 06:39 PM

Why won't Roon do higher than 24/48 MQA? Is there any rumors about Roon handling core MQA decoding in the future? Seems like a no brainer.

**Mike** · July 31, 2017, 07:11 PM

The folks at Roon pointed me here:

https://kb.roonlabs.com/Sound_Quality

They said:

"Hi Michael,

We've got some tips for sound quality at the following link. Ultimately it's less about the machine you run Roon on, and more about setting up your components to avoid environmental effects on sound quality: https://kb.roonlabs.com/Sound_Quality

With regard to vertical scrolling, it's coming soon! We are redesigning Roon and vertical scrolling is on the roadmap -- there is no way to enable it currently in Roon."

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