Results 1 to 50 of 109
Thread: On the future of Roon...
-
June 12, 2021, 06:43 PM #1
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
On the future of Roon...
On the future of Roon...
Disclaimer: I am a lifetime Roon subscriber, and would very much like for Roon to succeed.
I have been using Roon for several years now. For a while I used Roon with my local library only. Eventually I subscribed to music streaming services (Tidal, Qobuz).
If you have a library that includes local files, Roon offers, by far, the best music management capabilities. Nothing, I mean nothing, out there can touch it.
But if your library is external (from music streaming services), recent announcements by Apple and Spotify will affect Roon’s future.
Just in case you were not aware, Apple and Spotify recently announced that they will start providing CD quality music. Apple will not change their price. I suspect that Spotify will be forced to keep their monthly rates as well. Their rates are lower than those of Qobuz and Tidal.
Roon does NOT work with Apple Music or Spotify. Most likely, it will NEVER will.
So... would Roon users still subscribe to Tidal or Qobuz? Maybe some folks have invested in MQA-capable equipment and feel bound to Tidal. Qobuz subscribers may want to have access “hi-def” offerings.
But what if folks are happy with just CD-quality offerings? Then… they will likely switch to a cheaper streaming service.
That leads me to the conclusion that once Apple Music and Spotify start offering CD-quality music, both Tidal and Qobuz will see a drop of subscribers, and many Roon users will stop using Roon.
The future of Roon, in my opinion, relies on one of the big guys buying them out and using their database management capabilities.
-
June 12, 2021, 09:27 PM #2
- Join Date
- Apr 2021
- Location
- United States
- Posts
- 193
Re: On the future of Roon...
I use Roon because of the phenomenal metadata, and because it allows me to link different systems (I have a Naim QB at bedside, sonos in bathroom and kids rooms, and a headphone amp on my desktop in my basement). Apple and Spotify (nor Aurender or other systems as such) will not have these features. Amazon has been offering hi rez for awhile also. I agree Tidal will see a drop. Qobuz goes after a different international consumer. But as far as Roon, I think it's "Apples" to Oranges.
-
June 12, 2021, 10:26 PM #3
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
Re: On the future of Roon...
Roon offers metadata that no-one else offers. Totally agree.
However, others now offer multi-room capability (Sonos, Amazon).
So the question becomes: is metadata worth $100+ dollars per year to a regular subscriber (in addition to the music service streaming fee)?
(I am a lifetime subscriber so Roon does not cost me anything extra).
-
June 13, 2021, 03:18 PM #4
Re: On the future of Roon...
I don’t believe that Roon is going anywhere for the foreseeable future. I’m ready to pull the plug on Tidal though and stick with Quobuz.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
-
June 13, 2021, 03:21 PM #5
On the future of Roon...
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
-
June 13, 2021, 04:05 PM #6
Re: On the future of Roon...
in addition to the interface and metadata, roon ROCK which provids the ability to use any computer as a dedicated, headless streamer is a huge thing for me.
users such as myself probably represent a small segment of roon's installed base and, therefore, are not decisive as to the future of roon.
IME, any incremental electrical noise generated by roon sofware versus others can be mitigated or eliminated by deliberate computer design and downstream signal isolation... YMMVviking acoustics berlin r mk2 | almarro a318b + air tight atc-5 (phono) | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + diy transport + roon rock
alp-tone audio analog cables | core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii
-
June 13, 2021, 05:24 PM #7
- Join Date
- Apr 2021
- Location
- United States
- Posts
- 193
Re: On the future of Roon...
I remain intrigued by using Roon interface to control HQPlayer, and evaluate sound quality differences from using Roon server. Haven't had the chance to fiddle with this yet.
-
June 13, 2021, 05:44 PM #8
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Posts
- 685
Re: On the future of Roon...
That is definitely the way to go. IMHO, HQP has the quite superior sound quality compared with straight Roon. However, you do have to spend some time experimenting with the different choices of filters, upsampling, etc. Some can be quite taxing on your computer, and some of those are the most rewarding in terms of sound quality in my experience. There is a very active subforum on Roon, just deaing with HQP.
LarryAnalog-VPIClassic3-3DArm,Lyra Skala+MiyajimaZeroMono,2xAmpex ATR-102,Otari MX5050B2, Merrill Trident Tape Preamp, Herron VTPH-2A&BottleheadPhonoPre,
Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicroso nicsModel2 AD
Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC Roon/HQPlayer,Oppo105
Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps
Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR
Other-512 Engineering Tim Marutani Symmetrical Power IsoTrans and cables,AudioDiskVinylCleaner,
Music-2.3KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,60TBripped files
-
June 13, 2021, 05:55 PM #9
- Join Date
- Apr 2021
- Location
- United States
- Posts
- 193
Re: On the future of Roon...
We are getting off topic (we can blame Mike...) but the Aqua Linq apparently handles this fine...and is expensive enough to attract insecure audiophiles (like myself).
Suspect a Sonic Orbiter would be fine though?
AquaLinq and Roon/HQ Player module
Aqua LinQ Network Interface – Part 2 – HQPlayer Module | HFA - The Independent Source for Audio Equipment Reviews
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....
-
June 13, 2021, 06:52 PM #10
Re: On the future of Roon...
In view of Roon’s apparent intransigence in granting licenses for many streamers(*), do we not think that Roon may soon have a major rival? Perhaps a system that doesn’t rely on a dedicated PC in every user’s home to operate?
If software that maintains details of the user’s library of music can be added to the app and it knows which streaming services are subscribed to, would it not be possible to use external computing power to offer a comparable service to Roon? I don’t know, but Roon seems to require too much user equipment (and signal processing) for my liking, though I’m on unsure ground here as I’m no IT expert.
* For example, all NAD and Buesound streamers used to be Roon Ready and older ones are still good with Roon, but newer ones such as M33 are not yet certified despite (as far as I can establish) using identical electronics to the BluOS plug-in streamer module that can be added into M32, M12, M50.2 etc. Very weird!Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified
-
June 13, 2021, 09:32 PM #11
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
-
June 13, 2021, 09:38 PM #12
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
-
June 13, 2021, 11:57 PM #13
Re: On the future of Roon...
I am a recent Roon user. I decided to go year over year. Since only crazy audiophiles have large personal libraries, Roon’s future lies in its ability to integrate with music services from all major players. It takes two to tango, so I’m not sure Amazon, Apple, and Spotify will play along. It’s not in their business model to play well with others.
Roon is also very challenging to set up and get running. It takes a lot of horsepower and an investment in time and money to make it happen. Unless they make it more plug and play, it will not ‘take off’ in the true sense of the word. Maybe that’s ok though.
Which brings me back to Tidal and Qobuz. I’m done with Tidal, and Qobuz is tiny. It may never scale and become profitable. Hard to say.
Meanwhile I’m enjoying the ride and will take it as it comes.Tom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Video:
MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
-
June 14, 2021, 08:38 AM #14
Re: On the future of Roon...
2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
-
June 14, 2021, 07:10 PM #15
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
Re: On the future of Roon...
The thing is that many "crazy audiophiles" as you call them, are finally realizing that much if not all of their digital personal library is available via streaming. So why bother? (Incidentally, when I hear of folks having terabytes-sized library of digital files complaining about how little musicians get paid by music streaming services, I always wonder how many of those files they actually paid for).
Roon is not plug-and-play. Agree that it is a contributor to never becoming mainstream. But it is much easier to set up that something like the now unsupported Logitech Media Server which I believe was the precursor of Roon.
-
June 15, 2021, 01:38 AM #16
Re: On the future of Roon...
I think the demise of Roon has been greatly exaggerated. No more than wishful thinking on some people’s part. I still think Roon sounds terrific and has the best interface. Anyone that thinks there’s a sonic penalty just needs a better server. I may also switch from Tidal to Qobuz shortly. I have no interest in Apple or Spotify.
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
-
June 15, 2021, 06:22 AM #17
Re: On the future of Roon...
Anyone who hasn’t compared Roon to TAS or Aurender or NAIM, really should. Hopefully some folks who have made this comparison based on sound, will chime in.
We have a Nucleus+ and a Taiko Extreme for running Roon. It sounds like HQP really can address some of the sonic shortcomings of Roon. I will definitely give it a try. Maybe by using HQP with Roon, you can have it all.My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
-
June 15, 2021, 06:46 AM #18
Re: On the future of Roon...
"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
-
June 15, 2021, 10:05 AM #19
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
-
June 15, 2021, 10:11 AM #20
Re: On the future of Roon...
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
-
June 15, 2021, 11:49 AM #21
Re: On the future of Roon...
"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
-
June 15, 2021, 12:39 PM #22
Re: On the future of Roon...
I tried HQPlayer integration with roon once and found it klunky and not very reliable. Would love to know if people are really using this, trouble free. And how.
Of course at the time, I was running a sotm neo bridge and using its HQPlayer integration. Maybe that was the unreliable part.
Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk--Marc
-
June 15, 2021, 12:41 PM #23
Re: On the future of Roon...
the nucleus is a dedicated device running roon ROCK, a lite version of their operating system implemented in LINUX. unless i am mistaken, it is not possible to run anything other that roon server on that configuration.
from roon: "The Nucleus runs Roon OS as an operating system and Roon OS only runs Roon Server."
thus you still need another (powerful) device/computer to install hqPlayer. that device then becomes a roon endpoint to which the nucleus sends the audio data for hqPlayer to process and then send along to the DACviking acoustics berlin r mk2 | almarro a318b + air tight atc-5 (phono) | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + diy transport + roon rock
alp-tone audio analog cables | core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii
-
June 15, 2021, 12:50 PM #24
-
June 15, 2021, 02:35 PM #25
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
On the future of Roon...
Inside Roon settings, you will see an option to enable HQPlayer.
Then when using Roon, you will see HQPlayer as an available endpoint.
I do not think that HQP supports Esoteric directly.
However, there are ways to do so. Like sending the processed signal from HQP to a device that has a HQP NAA and then sending the digital data to any type of DAC. (One of my DACs is a Bryston and I can send music processed by HQP to the Bryston DAC that way using either optical cable or USB).
-
June 15, 2021, 02:50 PM #26
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
Re: On the future of Roon...
I am running Roon/HQP together with zero issues.
My set up consists of PC running Windows 10. I bought a computer built for gaming (Falcon Northwest) with fast processors just for this purpose. Both Roon Core and HQP are installed in this machine. I have. t+a DAC that connects to the computer via USB. HQP takes any music and converts it to 512DSD on the fly. It works flawlessly every time.
I can also connect HQP to an inexpensive Raspberry Pi computer with built in HQP NAA. This allows me to use any DAC.
-
June 15, 2021, 03:05 PM #27
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
Re: On the future of Roon...
I am using a Windows PC. Using Windows 10 you could upsample everything to DSD512 when using the right computer and DAC if you want to. Mac and Linux are limited to 256DSD if not mistaken (something to do with the operating system).
That said, I have been running HQP inside the PC but using HQP NAA that resides in a lowly Raspberry Pi (Linux) to send the data to the DAC and the result is fantastic.
Not familiar with Taiko or LinQ.
-
June 15, 2021, 03:44 PM #28
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
- Location
- The Netherlands
- Posts
- 260
Re: On the future of Roon...
HQPlayer on Linux (tested on Ubuntu Studio) has DSD512 output.
I love Linux systems, they are really stable, temperature control better, pc is more quiet, not many side programs running all the time, you can set the power management by simply pushing the on/off button and it will never ever start with half an hour updating when booting.
about the future of Roon: I am a bit concerned about the future of Tidal/Qobuz.Without these services Roon is over.
-
June 15, 2021, 03:59 PM #29
Re: On the future of Roon...
the DSD rate is related to the DAC and whether or not it can accept a native DSD signal or whether DoP (DSD over PCM) is required.
in the case of t+a, there is a driver for windows which allows a native DSD signal to be sent to the DAC.
however, for mac and linux only a DoP signal can be sent to the DAC. unfortunately, this can only be done at 1/4 the maximum native DSD rate. for example, my t+a dac can accept DSD512 natively ...but, only DSD128 when send using DoP
this has to do with the USB receiver firmware used by t+a.
_________________________________________________
note: there is a USB receiver firmware update available which allows for native DSD streams from linux. i installed this update and can now send DSD512 natively to my DAC from a linux server (running roon ROCK). however, this is an advance user update that i can only recommend for those with good computer / software skills.viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | almarro a318b + air tight atc-5 (phono) | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + diy transport + roon rock
alp-tone audio analog cables | core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii
-
June 15, 2021, 05:40 PM #30
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
- Location
- The Netherlands
- Posts
- 260
Re: On the future of Roon...
Getting confused. Why is my SMSL dac showing an input signal of 512 DSD on the display while using HQPlayer/Roon on Linux with DOP?
Is there something wrong with the T+A dac or is my SMSL showing 512 and reducing it inside to 1/4th.
-
June 15, 2021, 07:06 PM #31
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
On the future of Roon...
In my case the issue is with the way my T+A DAC interacts with Linux but not Linux itself. I have confirmed that there is beta firmware for the T+A that would allow 512DSD via Linux. Given that the firmware upgrade is still in beta (and non-reversible) I am not willing to try it.
-
June 16, 2021, 01:56 AM #32
Re: On the future of Roon...
Any recommendations to run HQP with apart from gaming PC? I prefer purpose-built server in the audio system. I currently run Roon on nucleus.
-
June 16, 2021, 06:54 AM #33
Re: On the future of Roon...
I also own a Roon Nucleus +. I have no idea why I would need to add extra computer processing power to convert to DSD 512 or DSD 256. It has been my experience through the entire history of all systems I have owned that native sampling in the native format, be it PCM or DSD, always sounds better than upsampling or converting to another format. It sounds to me like this is a case of a more complicated solution looking for a problem.
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
-
June 16, 2021, 08:24 AM #34
Re: On the future of Roon...
The main purpose and what put HQP on the map (generally speaking) are its filters and modulators when used for upsampling PCM > DSD. 256 is a sweat spot for many while to others 512 + 1024 is their preference. Obviously this will be DAC dependent, actually hugely dependent and almost always suites DACs that are or have NOS capability so as to let the audio PC and HQP do their thing (upsample with HQP) instead of the the internal DAC do the upsampling (which many chip based DACs do automatically and if they are not NOS then that internal upsampling cannot be "turned off")
Once you get into the higher sampling rates along with the combination of HQP filters and the new EC modulators, you NEED a high quality and powerful PC for the upsampling part. Nuculus and the like are not designed for this stage. Thus, this is where many take it from basic to stratosphere on an audio PC with dedicated LPS for CPU, drives, high quality eth and USB cards all of which are "usually" of a overall fan-less design and go DAC direct.
Another option (what I currently do) is to run roon core/server on a dedicated computer (win10, mac mini, Linux). I built up a current spec (i7-9700) small form factor computer running Ubuntu and does one thing only = roon server/core. Then i have a high end PC running Win Server 2019 and that runs HQP only (these two computers reside in util room). That powerful wkst then sends the upsampled HQP output to a HQP NAA endpoint (opticalRendu). There are many types of NAA's from a basic Pi to a Aqua LinQ. The endpoint is attached to a DAC.
So you can go DAC direct (roon + HQP on same computer with a high qulaity USB card) or the use of an endpoint to DAC.
There are a lot of permutations to the above and this is just some general "concepts". Are these plug n play, sorta depends. Some of these are pretty easy and just work while others are pretty intense and require solid computer and networking knowledge. Options I guess is the key word here. If one wants nothing to do with all this futzing (albeit control), one can keep it very simple (in the roon context) or opt for the aurender, lumin types with wonderful resultsMain:
Room: Dedicated 25 x 14 x 8 treated room | Computers (headless in utility room): Wkst #1 Ubuntu running lifetime ROON server. High end wkst #2 High end wkst running HQE image | Network rack (in utility room): Managed Fiber Switch, QNAP NAS | Endpoint: Fiber to SONORE OpticalRendu w/ LPS, Sbooster USB vbus2 |DAC: Lampi Lite7, Holo Audio S3 KTE, Aqua La Scala MKII Optologic | Pre: Atma-Sphere MP-3 Mk3.3 Pre / Pass Labs XP-22 | Amps: Pass XA100.5 Mono's | Speakers: Revel Ultima Studio2 (Townshend seismic posiums) with Dual PSA X15 sealed subs | Isolation: Components on custom roller bearings + compression springs | Cables: Wireworld Platinum USB / Analysis Plus PC / Gotham 4/4 XLR / AQ spkr / Revelation audiolabs I2s | Server Streamer: Aqua LinQ using HQP modules > I2s to Aqua La Scala
Office: Win10 wkst with Spotify or ROON controller > VDAC-II > VLINK 192 > Yamaha RX integrated > Polk audio signature Monitors >12" sub
-
June 16, 2021, 08:34 AM #35
On the future of Roon...
Just so I understand. In order to improve the sound of Roon, you install and configure HQP on another computer. Then, in HQP, you set it to upsample everything, even PCM red book to DSD 256/512 using a ASDM7EC modulator with a poly-sinc-ext2 filter.
The concern I have is that some DAC’s are optimized for native, so choosing the right DAC for this configuration and the right powerful PC is key. So all LINQ is doing is essentially being that NAA at the end of the day. So, if I understand correctly, unless you want to connect your DAC directly to the new powerful PC running HQP, you need an NAA, such as Antipodes or LINQ.
So in my case, I could run HQP on the Taiko Extreme with Roon, connect the LINQ to the Taiko and then connect the LINQ to the MSB?
Have most of you found this significantly increased the sound quality of Roon at the end of the day?My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
-
June 16, 2021, 08:49 AM #36
Re: On the future of Roon...
Wow, Am I the only one confused by all this?
And they say vinyl is a hassle........I'll just lower the tonearm and call it good.Mark
Kharma DB9 Signature
Pass Labs XP32......incoming
Pass Labs X350.8
Esoteric N-05XD
VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
Manley Chinook Phono Pre
Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
Kharma Elegance speaker cables
Kharma Elegance interconnects
REL Subs
-
June 16, 2021, 09:10 AM #37
Re: On the future of Roon...
This thread has been very helpful. Now that I understand what HQ Player is all about, I no longer have any interest in it.
Thanks,
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
-
June 16, 2021, 10:13 AM #38
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
Re: On the future of Roon...
You do not need a "gaming" PC. But you need a powerful computer and having a very good video card helps. It turns out that "gaming" computers are built with both. The processing power of video card is used by HQP to handle some of the processing. I only run Roon and HQPlayer in my PC. So I am using it as a dedicated audio component in my system.
-
June 16, 2021, 10:49 AM #39
Re: On the future of Roon...
I've tried Roon ... love the features but the sound just isn't there for me even compared to my entry level Aurender or even a MBP running Audirvana that I use as the front end for my headphone listening. I think all the confusion on this thread is reason enough why Roon will likely never become more than a niche player and unless gain support by Apple or Spotify seem to have a limited runway. That said .. I hope I'm wrong as I certainly want there to be more choice not less in our audiophile community.
GeorgeWilson Audio Alexx|Pair of Rel No25’s
VAC Statement Preamplifier
VAC Statement 452 Monoblocks
Sonorus ATR10 MkII
Esoteric D-02X|Esoteric P-02X|Aurender W20SE
MIT Oracle MA-X SHD SC and IC
Transparent Reference Power
-
June 16, 2021, 12:20 PM #40
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
On the future of Roon...
I am running BOTH Roon and HQP on the same computer. The processing power varies depending on what you want HQP to do.
For example, the combination of converting everything to 512DSD, using full-blown poly-sinc filters (unlike the -2s filters), and on top adding DSP (I use room correction filters) require a VERY powerful computer with a video card (HQP can use the processing power of the card). But not everybody needs that.
If you keep the files in their native format and only do fixed multiple up-conversions (like PCM to 8xPCM; and DSD to 8xDSD), the processing power needs comes down considerably. Currently, this is what I am doing (plus filters and room correction DSP).
My current configuration is: One main computer running Roon/HQP. This is the computer that does all the number crunching. I have another very small computer (a $50 Raspberry Pi) with HQP NAA software installed. My main computer and the RPi are connected to the same network using an ethernet switch and ethernet cables. I connect the Rpi to two separate DACs (one via USB and the other via fiber connection).
I am not familiar with LinQ, but looking at HQP website, they list the Aqua LinQ as having a built-in NAA. To me that means that you might be already on third base. See if you can do the following:
- Connect the LinQ and the computer running Roon/HQP to the same network (this is as simple as connecting both to your internet switch with ethernet cables). On the computer running HQPlayer, open the app and go to HQP Settings. Under "Output Device Settings" in the "Backend" section you should now see "NetworkAudioAdapter" as an option. Choose that. Then under "Device" the LinQ should now show. Select the LinQ. Then save those changes.
- Connect LinQ to any DAC and make sure that in the LinQ you select the input to be the NAA.
- In Roon, choose HQP as your Roon Endpoint and press play and see how it goes.
I used to listen to Roon with my Squeezeboxes, but that was years ago. After I started playing around with HQP, I have been using Roon/HQP almost exclusively. Today, I don't think that I would be able to make a fair comparison.
-
June 16, 2021, 01:36 PM #41
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Posts
- 685
Re: On the future of Roon...
There is an HQP thread on the Roon Forum. Lots of helpful information. Jussi (Mr.HQP) is a frequent participant and he answers questions directly if you PM him. I started on the HQP path at the recommendation of Tom Caufield who is the mastering engineer for Channel Classics. I was particularly interested in mch files (typically 5.0 or 5.1) which Channel provides on the SACDs and digital downloads (Native DSD is the website they own for all DSD downloads). He recommended using a separate, powerful computer to upsample the DSD64 files to DSD256 so that my multichannel DAC would not be overburdened in doing the upsampling internally. So I did that with a purpose built computer that my computer person built for me back in 2018. He contacted Jussi and worked through all the necessary details, including testing everything out This took a lot of horsepower since I am upconverting six channels simultaneously. Since I got my computer, there are more powerful and cheaper chips available. Cheap compared with lots of audiophile equipment. My main processor is an i7-6950X. It was $1650 when I got it. Today, many very powerful chips are much, much less expensive.
LarryAnalog-VPIClassic3-3DArm,Lyra Skala+MiyajimaZeroMono,2xAmpex ATR-102,Otari MX5050B2, Merrill Trident Tape Preamp, Herron VTPH-2A&BottleheadPhonoPre,
Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicroso nicsModel2 AD
Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC Roon/HQPlayer,Oppo105
Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps
Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR
Other-512 Engineering Tim Marutani Symmetrical Power IsoTrans and cables,AudioDiskVinylCleaner,
Music-2.3KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,60TBripped files
-
June 16, 2021, 05:24 PM #42
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
- Location
- The Netherlands
- Posts
- 260
Re: On the future of Roon...
Sadly today there is a chips crisis. Those powerful chips are increasing in price. Nucs are hard to get, but still available and more expensive. About pcs, especially the video cards are a real problem. Waiting time about half a year or longer. Price 2.5k euro what used to be about 800.
Sadly yesterday I had troubles with Roon. After testing and excluding everything I found that my dac broke. Think it couldn't handle 512 DSD.
-
June 16, 2021, 07:13 PM #43
Re: On the future of Roon...
Mark - Spot on posting. Although digital doesn’t need to be as complicated. There are world class digital solutions that can be setup and used within minutes - Lumin, MSB/DCS/EMM w renderer, Esoteric network players, and a few others.
I’m retired and spent 35 years in corporate IT. The last thing I want to do is build, setup, run and maintain multiple computers, switches, NAS,….to enjoy music.
But for those that do, have fun worrying about microcode and OS versions. I’ll be enjoying my my system; maybe vinyl or maybe my easy to play Lumin.
It’s all good…_______________
Mike
Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
Rack: Artesania Exoteryc
-
June 16, 2021, 09:36 PM #44
Re: On the future of Roon...
My feeling is that some get enjoyment out of making what is complicated to some but easy to them, work. I am cool with that. Have y’all read some of the threads on turntable/arm/cartridge setup? To me, that is complicated.
It’s a big hobby and we all approach it differently.Main Equipment: Kharma Elegance dB11-S, JL Audio F113v2, Block Audio Line & Mono SE Amplification, Bricasti M21 DAC, Antipodes Kala K-50 Server, ClearAudio Performance SE, Satisfy Arm & Maestro Wood MM Cartridge
Power: 3 x 20 Amp Lines, Shunyata Everest 8000, Sigma XC v2, Shunyata Sigma v2 NR, Block Audio Power Cords, Defender, ADDPowr Wizard
Grounding: Shunyata Altaira CGS - Alpha CGS cables
Network : Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon Modified) Buffalo GS2016 Switches powered with Keces P3 LPSU,
Cables: Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 USB, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 SCs, 1M & 6M Tubulus Concentus ICs,
Other: PSI Audio AVAA C20, Isoacoustics GAIA I footers Kharmas, GIK/Vicoustics/Stillpoint Apertures, Stillpoint Ultra SS, Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona Rack
-
June 17, 2021, 09:49 AM #45
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
On the future of Roon...
Agree that there are many digital solutions that are very easy to use.
One such product that rarely is mentioned here is the Sony HAP-Z1ES. It has a built in hard drive, does Spotify Connect, it can play any type of music file including high definition files. In fact it can convert everything to DSD if you choose so. It is not Roon-ready but with Spotify about to offer CD-quality music, it is a bargain at about $1,750.
-
June 17, 2021, 09:55 AM #46
- Join Date
- Apr 2021
- Location
- United States
- Posts
- 193
Re: On the future of Roon...
This has been a great, free wheeling thread. Lack of consensus, and the concept of "hobby" create for robust, diverse input on forums (I define hobby as our brains creating new problems that we feel we must solve!).
Relating to the OP, I agree, the big players may ultimately combine greater feature sets that will ultimately squeeze out smaller players.
The thread then diverged on the sound quality of Roon... I have called around to multiple dealers and "experts" on this, and looked at a variety of online comparisons. There is not a consensus that Roon isn't capable of equal sound qualilty to other interfaces. There is agreement that setup does affect Roon's sound quality, and we all can agree that it is less stable than other platforms.
I was originally interested in keepng the Roon interface and pairing it with HQplayer's processing/streaming. This can be done on a single unit. Interestingly, Andrew, at Small Green Computer, feels this isn't necessary, and that output signal quality and clocking are more important.
I will chew on this, as my brain's participation in this hobby enjoys trying to solve this important, world altering problem...
-
June 17, 2021, 03:55 PM #47
Re: On the future of Roon...
Hi Ricky,
I agree with everything you said except that Roon isn’t as stable as other platforms. I have literally had zero glitches since I started using Roon about three years ago. The key is I have an extremely straightforward setup: Roon Nucleus +, Synology NAS and NetGear Nighthawk Router running to a MSB Renderer V2 digital input module in my MSB Select DAC. No dropouts, no failures and no problems in three years. Can’t beat that.
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
-
June 17, 2021, 07:51 PM #48
-
June 19, 2021, 09:58 AM #49
Re: On the future of Roon...
Dupe
Tom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Video:
MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
-
June 19, 2021, 10:01 AM #50
Re: On the future of Roon...
Good points. I have a large library because I live at the end of the known internet universe, with really spotty connectivity. For example, I have to throttle Qobuz to 24/96 to get it play reliably. Not a huge issue. But there are times when local network traffic drops my bandwidth down to the point that even 24/96 won’t stream.
Point is, Roon’s future lies in its ability to attract new streaming users, as the crazy audiophiles like me have already bought it. Roon will be more secure financially if they find a way to partner with the big dogs, who I predict will be the only ones left in the ring when the dust settles.Tom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Video:
MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
This is a 12 volt LPS....is that sufficient ?....I thought one needed something like 19/20 volts, especially if doing DSP, etc.
Nucleus one