Ethernet switch box

johnthomas

johnthomas

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Hey guys I need a little help. What Ethernet switch do you recommend for my system. I’m only running one Sigma ethernet cable into my Lumin. So I guess I’m looking into something with a clock and isolation I’m assuming.
 
just had the same topic and the research had a clear outcome.

melco s100 with farad3

if you want to go higher,
send the unit to pink faun and they put a clock inside. then you will need 2 farad3 for it.

if you want to go higher, buy 2 melcos and connect them optical. (needs 4 farads then).

however, melco s100 is todays best according to many
 
johnthomas said:
Hey guys I need a little help. What Ethernet switch do you recommend for my system. I’m only running one Sigma ethernet cable into my Lumin. So I guess I’m looking into something with a clock and isolation I’m assuming.
Click to expand...

I always thought an Ethernet switch supposed to send data packets for other devices to combine. In my view it would be the other devices (for example a DAC) that would need a clock.
FWIW I have a Netgear switch that can be adjusted to prioritize traffic. For example, my audio traffic gets top priority.
 
clocking the switch is very audible.
2 switches serial is even much more audible.
many say switches makes the bigger difference than different dacs.

(i just quote others)
 
u-sound said:
just had the same topic and the research had a clear outcome.

melco s100 with farad3

if you want to go higher,
send the unit to pink faun and they put a clock inside. then you will need 2 farad3 for it.

if you want to go higher, buy 2 melcos and connect them optical. (needs 4 farads then).

however, melco s100 is todays best according to many
Click to expand...

yes, the Melco S100 mod with PinkFaun clock takes the Melco to another level but only with the UltraOCXO clock. If you want to beat this, get two of them modified and connect in series. Alternatively, the JCAT M12 Switch Gold is also nice but sounds different than the Melco, not better.
 
johnthomas said:
Hey guys I need a little help. What Ethernet switch do you recommend for my system. I’m only running one Sigma ethernet cable into my Lumin. So I guess I’m looking into something with a clock and isolation I’m assuming.
Click to expand...

Easy, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN. $640. Has the Crystek CCHD-575 crystal oscillator, which is an excellent femto-clock.

It's "isolation", specifically with respect to isolation from the impact of clock phase noise and low- and high-source leakage impedance current (and their deleterious impact in terms of noise on the ground plane) is unmatched.

You can read my full-length review of it in the December 2020 issue of The Absolute Sound. There is a comprehensive section in the review of its technical advantages over generic or IT-industry Ethernet switches.
 
u-sound said:
just had the same topic and the research had a clear outcome.

melco s100 with farad3

if you want to go higher,
send the unit to pink faun and they put a clock inside. then you will need 2 farad3 for it.

if you want to go higher, buy 2 melcos and connect them optical. (needs 4 farads then).

however, melco s100 is todays best according to many
Click to expand...

A Melco S100 is a good switch, but...it's 2200 bucks.

An UpTone Audio EtherREGEN is a much better value at almost 1/4 the price: $640. And you don't need to pop for an external linear power supply for it, either.

An affordable solution is to use an Sonore OpticalModule upstream, which has the same exact high-quality clock as the EtherREGEN (designed by the same engineer) for only $289, and run optical fiber downstream to an optical transceiver in the SFP cage of the EtherREGEN in or near the main audio rack. That way, you'll get the benefit in terms of reduction of clock phase from "stacking clocks" and the optical will be unaffected by RFI, EMI, leakage current, and a lack of galvanic isolation.

All in for less than a grand, and LOT less than $4400 for two Melcos.
 
nicoff said:
I always thought an Ethernet switch supposed to send data packets for other devices to combine. In my view it would be the other devices (for example a DAC) that would need a clock.
FWIW I have a Netgear switch that can be adjusted to prioritize traffic. For example, my audio traffic gets top priority.
Click to expand...

ALL digital devices that transmit data, even $15 generic Ethernet switches, have a clock. The issue with them is that they are really cheap, sh*tty clocks with a lot of clock phase noise. The phase noise is not an issue for networking applications, e.g. displaying a pixel on a computer display, or printing a pixel on a hard copy print-out because the output is discrete and binary and..timing doesn't matter.

But it is really big deal for streaming digital audio music content, because in that application, timing really does matter. In the digital domain, even timing errors measured in nanoseconds is a lot of timing error, and this error is audible when we can discern timing errors in the femtosecond range. Additionally, the garbage switch-mode power supplies spew high-source leakage impedance current, also causes lots of noise on the endpoint/renderer and/or DAC's ground planes, which concomitantly resuts in increased threshold jitter, which is as audible as the impact of clock phase noise.
 
Puma is right - EtherREGEN is a standalone value, and if you get curious play with your setup including the modem, I have found the following teaks and updates, and more all beneficial:

- platform isolation
- optical isolation (cable or GigaFoil V4
- chassis ground
- ethernet cables before and after
- linear power supplies for AC and DC cables
- AC distribution






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Going to try the Melco S100 here. HiFi News measurements showed a marked improvement.

The review is the EtherRegen one showed no improvement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
The forthcoming Taiko Audio switch will probably be a winner. Ground up design all for sonics.

I wouldn't spend a nickel for some modified switch....
 
Mike said:
Going to try the Melco S100 here. HiFi News measurements showed a marked improvement.

The review is the EtherRegen one showed no improvement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

When you say, "no improvement", what measurement did HiFi Review do that showed "no improvement"? Do you have a link to the review, by any chance?

I'm curious if they measured the Melco for its ability to block high-source impedance leakage current and its impact on threshold jitter.

In fact, I'm doubtful they even have the metrology to measure high-source impedance leakage current and its impact on threshold jitter. AFAIK, the only person in the world that has this metrology is John Swenson. That's because he designed and built himself just to be able to do this analysis.
 
Kingsrule said:
The forthcoming Taiko Audio switch will probably be a winner. Ground up design all for sonics.

I wouldn't spend a nickel for some modified switch....
Click to expand...

Just in the interests of accuracy here, the UpTone Audio is not a modified switch, it is a ground-up bespoke design by John Swenson.
 
Puma Cat said:
When you say, "no improvement", what measurement did HiFi Review do that showed "no improvement"? Do you have a link to the review, by any chance?

I'm curious if they measured the Melco for its ability to block high-source impedance leakage current and its impact on threshold jitter.

In fact, I'm doubtful they even have the metrology to measure high-source impedance leakage current and its impact on threshold jitter. AFAIK, the only person in the world that has this metrology is John Swenson. That's because he designed and built himself just to be able to do this analysis.
Click to expand...

EtherREGEN Review/Measurements:

UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Switch Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

Melco S100 Review/Measurements:

https://www.melco-audio-masters.com/uploads/1/0/1/5/101505220/hfn_oct_melco_s100_reprint-low.pdf


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
johnthomas said:
Thank you guys for your input. I will order and try the EtherREGEN.
Click to expand...

I'm confident you will be very happy with it. You can also obtain a no-questions asked, full refund within 30 days if you don't like it. But, I am very confident you will.

Acc. to information from UpTone Audio, as of July 2020, they had sold over 1500 EtherREGENs, and to date only had 5 returned from customers. That is a return-rate of....0.03%. They have likely sold 2000 or more as of today. Alex Crespi of UpTone told me that orders "are flooding in" since my review in TAS was published just a few weeks ago.
 
nicoff said:
I always thought an Ethernet switch supposed to send data packets for other devices to combine. In my view it would be the other devices (for example a DAC) that would need a clock.
Click to expand...

an asynchronous DAC drawing at-rest data from its buffer should not be affected by upstream network clocks. upstream electrical noise delivered to the DAC along with the intended signal is another issue -- one which an audiophile switch may be helpful in mitigating.
 
Mike said:
EtherREGEN Review/Measurements:

UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Switch Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Click to expand...

Don't get me started with ASR. They don't even do MSAs on their measurement system.

In fact, my guess is they wouldn't even know an MSA if it smacked them in the face.

Anyone doing meaurements without qualifying the measurement system with a statistically valid MSA cannot make any meaningful statements nor draw any meaningful or statistically valid interences about their measurements.

Has ASR ever done MS repeatibility validation? No.
Has ASR ever done MS reproducbility validation? No.
Has ASR ever done measurement system*operator variance analysis? No.
Has ASR ever done measurement system*part variance analysis? No.
Has ASR ever demonstrated smallest statistically effective measurement increment? No.

Gimme a break...I used to teach this stuff professionally...

Sorry, ASR has virtually no credibility from me. Those guys were biased about EtherREGEN and trashing it BEFORE it even shipped. Sorry, but that is NOT science. Real scientists don't bias themselves, and in particular, they don't bias themselves in the complete absence of data. I was scientist my entire professional career, and these guys give science a bad name.
 
Puma Cat said:
A Melco S100 is a good switch, but...it's 2200 bucks.

An UpTone Audio EtherREGEN is a much better value at almost 1/4 the price: $640. And you don't need to pop for an external linear power supply for it, either.

An affordable solution is to use an Sonore OpticalModule upstream, which has the same exact high-quality clock as the EtherREGEN (designed by the same engineer) for only $289, and run optical fiber downstream to an optical transceiver in the SFP cage of the EtherREGEN in or near the main audio rack. That way, you'll get the benefit in terms of reduction of clock phase from "stacking clocks" and the optical will be unaffected by RFI, EMI, leakage current, and a lack of galvanic isolation.

All in for less than a grand, and LOT less than $4400 for two Melcos.
Click to expand...


actually a few weeks back i new nothing about ethernet switches. it was you who pointed out how important they are and your input has put me into a journey.
in a pure streamer system, how important is the switch relative to the other units such as dac or pre? i came to the conclusion that it is just as important (without any real experiance, lol).
the correct analogy would be the powerdistributor. the signal from the web is full of noise, even to a greater degree than the powerside......all you hear is the power AND the signal.....so how much are you willing to pay for the switch that is said to be the bottleneck in a streamersystem where the dac and pre costs 10 or 20k....or lets say in my case the powerdistributor (everest) is 8k?
i cant give the answer. thinking about made the budget brainwise much bigger.
2 melcos with the pink faun clock and 4 farad3 is about 11k. add a alpha and a omega ethernet cable, add 4 delta nr and its around 20k then, and add a rack, footers you end up 25k.
something holds me back to become the guy with a 25k switch, then again i am thinking about a serious signal foundation before buying a top streamer-dac.
hopefully taiko kicks in with a top all in one solution!!!!
as for the moment, many have already compared melco, etherregen, sotm, ansuz etc. and while etheregen is a great improvement vs stock for a much better price, sonicwise it is far below the melco, some say it sounds unnatural compared.
 
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