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  1. #1
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    Ethernet switch box

    Hey guys I need a little help. What Ethernet switch do you recommend for my system. Iím only running one Sigma ethernet cable into my Lumin. So I guess Iím looking into something with a clock and isolation Iím assuming.
    Gryphon Essence stereo amp and preamp/dac
    Waiting on Fyne Audio F1-10
    Lumin T2, Moon 260 Transport, Denali V2 Hurricane power cords
    Shunyata Research Alpha V2 XC, Sigma USB and Ethernet
    Argento Audio speaker cables and interconnects

  2. #2
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    just had the same topic and the research had a clear outcome.

    melco s100 with farad3

    if you want to go higher,
    send the unit to pink faun and they put a clock inside. then you will need 2 farad3 for it.

    if you want to go higher, buy 2 melcos and connect them optical. (needs 4 farads then).

    however, melco s100 is todays best according to many

  3. #3

    Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by johnthomas View Post
    Hey guys I need a little help. What Ethernet switch do you recommend for my system. Iím only running one Sigma ethernet cable into my Lumin. So I guess Iím looking into something with a clock and isolation Iím assuming.
    I always thought an Ethernet switch supposed to send data packets for other devices to combine. In my view it would be the other devices (for example a DAC) that would need a clock.
    FWIW I have a Netgear switch that can be adjusted to prioritize traffic. For example, my audio traffic gets top priority.

  4. #4
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    clocking the switch is very audible.
    2 switches serial is even much more audible.
    many say switches makes the bigger difference than different dacs.

    (i just quote others)

  5. #5
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    just had the same topic and the research had a clear outcome.

    melco s100 with farad3

    if you want to go higher,
    send the unit to pink faun and they put a clock inside. then you will need 2 farad3 for it.

    if you want to go higher, buy 2 melcos and connect them optical. (needs 4 farads then).

    however, melco s100 is todays best according to many
    yes, the Melco S100 mod with PinkFaun clock takes the Melco to another level but only with the UltraOCXO clock. If you want to beat this, get two of them modified and connect in series. Alternatively, the JCAT M12 Switch Gold is also nice but sounds different than the Melco, not better.

  6. #6

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by johnthomas View Post
    Hey guys I need a little help. What Ethernet switch do you recommend for my system. Iím only running one Sigma ethernet cable into my Lumin. So I guess Iím looking into something with a clock and isolation Iím assuming.
    Easy, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN. $640. Has the Crystek CCHD-575 crystal oscillator, which is an excellent femto-clock.

    It's "isolation", specifically with respect to isolation from the impact of clock phase noise and low- and high-source leakage impedance current (and their deleterious impact in terms of noise on the ground plane) is unmatched.

    You can read my full-length review of it in the December 2020 issue of The Absolute Sound. There is a comprehensive section in the review of its technical advantages over generic or IT-industry Ethernet switches.

  7. #7

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    just had the same topic and the research had a clear outcome.

    melco s100 with farad3

    if you want to go higher,
    send the unit to pink faun and they put a clock inside. then you will need 2 farad3 for it.

    if you want to go higher, buy 2 melcos and connect them optical. (needs 4 farads then).

    however, melco s100 is todays best according to many
    A Melco S100 is a good switch, but...it's 2200 bucks.

    An UpTone Audio EtherREGEN is a much better value at almost 1/4 the price: $640. And you don't need to pop for an external linear power supply for it, either.

    An affordable solution is to use an Sonore OpticalModule upstream, which has the same exact high-quality clock as the EtherREGEN (designed by the same engineer) for only $289, and run optical fiber downstream to an optical transceiver in the SFP cage of the EtherREGEN in or near the main audio rack. That way, you'll get the benefit in terms of reduction of clock phase from "stacking clocks" and the optical will be unaffected by RFI, EMI, leakage current, and a lack of galvanic isolation.

    All in for less than a grand, and LOT less than $4400 for two Melcos.

  8. #8

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    I always thought an Ethernet switch supposed to send data packets for other devices to combine. In my view it would be the other devices (for example a DAC) that would need a clock.
    FWIW I have a Netgear switch that can be adjusted to prioritize traffic. For example, my audio traffic gets top priority.
    ALL digital devices that transmit data, even $15 generic Ethernet switches, have a clock. The issue with them is that they are really cheap, sh*tty clocks with a lot of clock phase noise. The phase noise is not an issue for networking applications, e.g. displaying a pixel on a computer display, or printing a pixel on a hard copy print-out because the output is discrete and binary and..timing doesn't matter.

    But it is really big deal for streaming digital audio music content, because in that application, timing really does matter. In the digital domain, even timing errors measured in nanoseconds is a lot of timing error, and this error is audible when we can discern timing errors in the femtosecond range. Additionally, the garbage switch-mode power supplies spew high-source leakage impedance current, also causes lots of noise on the endpoint/renderer and/or DAC's ground planes, which concomitantly resuts in increased threshold jitter, which is as audible as the impact of clock phase noise.

  9. #9
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Thank you guys for your input. I will order and try the EtherREGEN.
    Gryphon Essence stereo amp and preamp/dac
    Waiting on Fyne Audio F1-10
    Lumin T2, Moon 260 Transport, Denali V2 Hurricane power cords
    Shunyata Research Alpha V2 XC, Sigma USB and Ethernet
    Argento Audio speaker cables and interconnects

  10. #10
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Puma is right - EtherREGEN is a standalone value, and if you get curious play with your setup including the modem, I have found the following teaks and updates, and more all beneficial:

    - platform isolation
    - optical isolation (cable or GigaFoil V4
    - chassis ground
    - ethernet cables before and after
    - linear power supplies for AC and DC cables
    - AC distribution






    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan DíAgostino Momentum HD and M400ís | Boulder 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
    Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS









  11. #11
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Going to try the Melco S100 here. HiFi News measurements showed a marked improvement.

    The review is the EtherRegen one showed no improvement.


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  12. #12

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    The forthcoming Taiko Audio switch will probably be a winner. Ground up design all for sonics.

    I wouldn't spend a nickel for some modified switch....

  13. #13
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsrule View Post
    The forthcoming Taiko Audio switch will probably be a winner. Ground up design all for sonics.

    I wouldn't spend a nickel for some modified switch....
    Yes!!


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  14. #14

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Going to try the Melco S100 here. HiFi News measurements showed a marked improvement.

    The review is the EtherRegen one showed no improvement.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    When you say, "no improvement", what measurement did HiFi Review do that showed "no improvement"? Do you have a link to the review, by any chance?

    I'm curious if they measured the Melco for its ability to block high-source impedance leakage current and its impact on threshold jitter.

    In fact, I'm doubtful they even have the metrology to measure high-source impedance leakage current and its impact on threshold jitter. AFAIK, the only person in the world that has this metrology is John Swenson. That's because he designed and built himself just to be able to do this analysis.

  15. #15

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsrule View Post
    The forthcoming Taiko Audio switch will probably be a winner. Ground up design all for sonics.

    I wouldn't spend a nickel for some modified switch....
    Just in the interests of accuracy here, the UpTone Audio is not a modified switch, it is a ground-up bespoke design by John Swenson.

  16. #16
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    When you say, "no improvement", what measurement did HiFi Review do that showed "no improvement"? Do you have a link to the review, by any chance?

    I'm curious if they measured the Melco for its ability to block high-source impedance leakage current and its impact on threshold jitter.

    In fact, I'm doubtful they even have the metrology to measure high-source impedance leakage current and its impact on threshold jitter. AFAIK, the only person in the world that has this metrology is John Swenson. That's because he designed and built himself just to be able to do this analysis.
    EtherREGEN Review/Measurements:

    UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Switch Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

    Melco S100 Review/Measurements:

    https://www.melco-audio-masters.com/...eprint-low.pdf


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  17. #17

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by johnthomas View Post
    Thank you guys for your input. I will order and try the EtherREGEN.
    I'm confident you will be very happy with it. You can also obtain a no-questions asked, full refund within 30 days if you don't like it. But, I am very confident you will.

    Acc. to information from UpTone Audio, as of July 2020, they had sold over 1500 EtherREGENs, and to date only had 5 returned from customers. That is a return-rate of....0.03%. They have likely sold 2000 or more as of today. Alex Crespi of UpTone told me that orders "are flooding in" since my review in TAS was published just a few weeks ago.

  18. #18
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    I always thought an Ethernet switch supposed to send data packets for other devices to combine. In my view it would be the other devices (for example a DAC) that would need a clock.
    an asynchronous DAC drawing at-rest data from its buffer should not be affected by upstream network clocks. upstream electrical noise delivered to the DAC along with the intended signal is another issue -- one which an audiophile switch may be helpful in mitigating.
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  19. #19

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Don't get me started with ASR. They don't even do MSAs on their measurement system.

    In fact, my guess is they wouldn't even know an MSA if it smacked them in the face.

    Anyone doing meaurements without qualifying the measurement system with a statistically valid MSA cannot make any meaningful statements nor draw any meaningful or statistically valid interences about their measurements.

    Has ASR ever done MS repeatibility validation? No.
    Has ASR ever done MS reproducbility validation? No.
    Has ASR ever done measurement system*operator variance analysis? No.
    Has ASR ever done measurement system*part variance analysis? No.
    Has ASR ever demonstrated smallest statistically effective measurement increment? No.

    Gimme a break...I used to teach this stuff professionally...

    Sorry, ASR has virtually no credibility from me. Those guys were biased about EtherREGEN and trashing it BEFORE it even shipped. Sorry, but that is NOT science. Real scientists don't bias themselves, and in particular, they don't bias themselves in the complete absence of data. I was scientist my entire professional career, and these guys give science a bad name.

  20. #20
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    A Melco S100 is a good switch, but...it's 2200 bucks.

    An UpTone Audio EtherREGEN is a much better value at almost 1/4 the price: $640. And you don't need to pop for an external linear power supply for it, either.

    An affordable solution is to use an Sonore OpticalModule upstream, which has the same exact high-quality clock as the EtherREGEN (designed by the same engineer) for only $289, and run optical fiber downstream to an optical transceiver in the SFP cage of the EtherREGEN in or near the main audio rack. That way, you'll get the benefit in terms of reduction of clock phase from "stacking clocks" and the optical will be unaffected by RFI, EMI, leakage current, and a lack of galvanic isolation.

    All in for less than a grand, and LOT less than $4400 for two Melcos.

    actually a few weeks back i new nothing about ethernet switches. it was you who pointed out how important they are and your input has put me into a journey.
    in a pure streamer system, how important is the switch relative to the other units such as dac or pre? i came to the conclusion that it is just as important (without any real experiance, lol).
    the correct analogy would be the powerdistributor. the signal from the web is full of noise, even to a greater degree than the powerside......all you hear is the power AND the signal.....so how much are you willing to pay for the switch that is said to be the bottleneck in a streamersystem where the dac and pre costs 10 or 20k....or lets say in my case the powerdistributor (everest) is 8k?
    i cant give the answer. thinking about made the budget brainwise much bigger.
    2 melcos with the pink faun clock and 4 farad3 is about 11k. add a alpha and a omega ethernet cable, add 4 delta nr and its around 20k then, and add a rack, footers you end up 25k.
    something holds me back to become the guy with a 25k switch, then again i am thinking about a serious signal foundation before buying a top streamer-dac.
    hopefully taiko kicks in with a top all in one solution!!!!
    as for the moment, many have already compared melco, etherregen, sotm, ansuz etc. and while etheregen is a great improvement vs stock for a much better price, sonicwise it is far below the melco, some say it sounds unnatural compared.

  21. #21

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    Don't get me started with ASR. They don't even do MSAs on their measurement system.

    In fact, my guess is they wouldn't even know an MSA if it smacked them in the face.

    Anyone doing meaurements without qualifying the measurement system with a statistically valid MSA cannot make any meaningful statements nor draw any meaningful or statistically valid interences about their measurements.

    Has ASR ever done MS repeatibility validation? No.
    Has ASR ever done MS reproducbility validation? No.
    Has ASR ever done measurement system*operator variance analysis? No.
    Has ASR ever done measurement system*part variance analysis? No.
    Has ASR ever demonstrated smallest statistically effective measurement increment? No.

    Gimme a break...I used to teach this stuff professionally...

    Sorry, ASR has virtually no credibility from me. Those guys were biased about EtherREGEN and trashing it BEFORE it even shipped. Sorry, but that is NOT science. Real scientists don't bias themselves, and in particular, they don't bias themselves in the complete absence of data. I was scientist my entire professional career, and these guys give science a bad name.
    Can we have a list of the audio companies that you are representing as a brand ambassador/marketing agent or any other title?
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  22. #22
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    Don't get me started with ASR. They don't even do MSAs on their measurement system.

    In fact, my guess is they wouldn't even know an MSA if it smacked them in the face.

    Anyone doing meaurements without qualifying the measurement system with a statistically valid MSA cannot make any meaningful statements nor draw any meaningful or statistically valid interences about their measurements.

    Has ASR ever done MS repeatibility validation? No.
    Has ASR ever done MS reproducbility validation? No.
    Has ASR ever done measurement system*operator variance analysis? No.
    Has ASR ever done measurement system*part variance analysis? No.
    Has ASR ever demonstrated smallest statistically effective measurement increment? No.

    Gimme a break...I used to teach this stuff professionally...

    Sorry, ASR has virtually no credibility from me. Those guys were biased about EtherREGEN and trashing it BEFORE it even shipped. Sorry, but that is NOT science. Real scientists don't bias themselves, and in particular, they don't bias themselves in the complete absence of data. I was scientist my entire professional career, and these guys give science a bad name.
    Have you been able to do measurements against say a standard switch? That could certainly dispel their findings.


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  23. #23

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Can we have a list of the audio companies that you are representing as a brand ambassador/marketing agent or any other title?
    I'm not representing ANY company as a brand ambassador or marketing agent. I bought and use my own EtherREGEN.

  24. #24

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    I'm not representing ANY company as a brand ambassador or marketing agent. I bought and use my own EtherREGEN.
    Really now. You sure give a lot of time to answering all questions related to Shunyata. Didnít you previously state that you perform product photography for Shunyata as well as being a beta tester for all their new products?
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  25. #25

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Have you been able to do measurements against say a standard switch? That could certainly dispel their findings.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Hi Mike, no, I don't have any measurement equipment here. And I'm not in the test and measurement business, either.

    And as far as I know, the only person that has the relevant measurement system and measurement protocol is John Swenson, so I'll defer to his 40 years of professional expertise in this specific discipline.

  26. #26

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    I'm confident you will be very happy with it. You can also obtain a no-questions asked, full refund within 30 days if you don't like it. But, I am very confident you will.

    Acc. to information from UpTone Audio, as of July 2020, they had sold over 1500 EtherREGENs, and to date only had 5 returned from customers. That is a return-rate of....0.03%. They have likely sold 2000 or more as of today. Alex Crespi of UpTone told me that orders "are flooding in" since my review in TAS was published just a few weeks ago.

    Bingo. The more things change, the more they stay the same. This hobby is waaaay too predictable. Dr. Freud would have had a field day with this hobby in his time...
    Serge

  27. #27

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Switches, schmitches... The best clock is a Tice Clock! Everyone knows it He sold a lot of them back in his day.
    Serge

  28. #28

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Really now. You sure give a lot of time to answering all questions related to Shunyata. Didnít you previously state that you perform product photography for Shunyata as well as being a beta tester for all their new products?
    I am not an employee nor brand ambassador for Shunyata Research, or any other audio company, for that matter. I'm retired scientist and part-time commercial photographer who does some writing for an audio magazine. At some point in time, once we're past this pandemic, I may go back to the lab bench part-time, because I miss doin' science.

    I don't answer all questions, related to Shunyata, only questions where my direct experience may prove useful for potential customers with respect to what they may find to be a value proposition.

    I have done some occasional beta testing for Shunyata, but I do not beta test all their products. Who they use for beta testers depends on the product and what information they need for development purposes for that specific product. So, for example, if memory serves, SCAudiophile has mentioned he's done some beta testing for them for their clock cables, because he uses clock cables in his system. I don't, so there would be no reason for me to beta-test a clock cable. I beta-tested their new Shunyata Ethernet cables because I was building out my digital streaming system at the same time they needed to do beta-testing, so the timing worked out well for both parties. I rented in the products I evaluated in the competitive benchmarking I did from The Cable Company at my own expense. It was really informative for me, and I had a lot of fun doing that project, so I see it as a win-win. With respect to beta-testing on the whole, I'm open to doing beta-testing for any of a number of audio manufacturers, as I find it intellectually engaging and informative.

    I do some occasional product photography for Shunyata because 1) it's fun and 2) it helps me develop my product photography skills for my developing commerical photography business. They occasionally send me some stuff to shoot, and it's a win-win because I get to practice my product photography on some pretty cool products. I send the products and photos back, and they are free to use whatever photos they want. Or, not. FWIW, I also did some product photography for the Gold Note PH-10 phono stage I reviewed and I will likely do some on the Rega Planar 10 and Lampizator Baltic-3 DAC I have in for review. All these different products help me develop my skills...again, it's a win-win.

  29. #29
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    i really like your activity in here. very helpful many times and very informative.

  30. #30

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Bingo. The more things change, the more they stay the same. This hobby is waaaay too predictable. Dr. Freud would have had a field day with this hobby in his time...
    I'm not exactly sure what your point is here, Serge, but there all sorts of products in the market. Those products get reviewed in written or video reviews, and customers use those reviews, hopefully, to make informed decisions about whether those products would meet their needs and represent a value proposition. Its the same whether the product is audio gear, cameras, cars, sport bikes, home theatre or wrist-watches. I could just as well be writing about mirrorless digital cameras or watches, and some folks will read those reviews and find it informative enough to make an informed purchasing decisions.

  31. #31

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    I am not an employee nor brand ambassador for Shunyata Research, or any other audio company, for that matter. I'm retired scientist and part-time commercial photographer who does some writing for an audio magazine. At some point in time, once we're past this pandemic, I may go back to the lab bench part-time, because I miss doin' science.

    I don't answer all questions, related to Shunyata, only questions where my direct experience may prove useful for potential customers with respect to what they may find to be a value proposition.

    I have done some occasional beta testing for Shunyata, but I do not beta test all their products. Who they use for beta testers depends on the product and what information they need for development purposes for that specific product. So, for example, if memory serves, SCAudiophile has mentioned he's done some beta testing for them for their clock cables, because he uses clock cables in his system. I don't, so there would be no reason for me to beta-test a clock cable. I beta-tested their new Shunyata Ethernet cables because I was building out my digital streaming system at the same time they needed to do beta-testing, so the timing worked out well for both parties. I rented in the products I evaluated in the competitive benchmarking I did from The Cable Company at my own expense. It was really informative for me, and I had a lot of fun doing that project, so I see it as a win-win. With respect to beta-testing on the whole, I'm open to doing beta-testing for any of a number of audio manufacturers, as I find it intellectually engaging and informative.

    I do some occasional product photography for Shunyata because 1) it's fun and 2) it helps me develop my product photography skills for my developing commerical photography business. They occasionally send me some stuff to shoot, and it's a win-win because I get to practice my product photography on some pretty cool products. I send the products and photos back, and they are free to use whatever photos they want. Or, not. FWIW, I also did some product photography for the Gold Note PH-10 phono stage I reviewed and I will likely do some on the Rega Planar 10 and Lampizator Baltic-3 DAC I have in for review. All these different products help me develop my skills...again, it's a win-win.
    Iím glad you added more disclosure of who you are working for. Does TAS know you are doing product photography for the companies that you are reviewing their products in TAS?
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  32. #32

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Iím glad you added more disclosure of who you are working for. Does TAS know you are doing product photography for the companies that you are reviewing their products in TAS?
    Let me be clear: I do not work for any audio company. I'm a contributing writer for TAS whose reviews are published roughly twice a year.

    As for TAS knowing about me doing product photography for the products I review, the answer is Yes, and they are pleased to have me do it when the product photos meet their standards & requirements for articles. If it meets the Art Director's standards and requirements, they'll use them because it frees up the art department's bandwidth to work on other products in for review. They have a lot of products that get reviewed every year, products that need photography or artwork, and publishing a monthly magazine is a lot of work, so if I can help them out with that workload, I'm happy to help. We're all one team.

  33. #33

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    I'm not exactly sure what your point is here, Serge, but there all sorts of products in the market. Those products get reviewed in written or video reviews, and customers use those reviews, hopefully, to make informed decisions about whether those products would meet their needs and represent a value proposition. Its the same whether the product is audio gear, cameras, cars, sport bikes, home theatre or wrist-watches. I could just as well be writing about mirrorless digital cameras or watches, and some folks will read those reviews and find it informative enough to make an informed purchasing decisions.
    Well, for the record Stephen, I know how magazines work. I was a partner in a print magazine before as one of my business ventures. So I know how far subscription money goes and how much farther "advertising" bucks go and what product placement is. It is not a secret and it is a game played by all forms of consumer targeted media.

    But let me focus on the other part. You were/are a scientist? So lets dive in.

    I'm having a bit of a problem with "informed decisions" when it comes to high end audio magazines. It's all fun, it is just a hobby, perhaps taken way too seriously by some but that's fine, whatever floats your boat, right?

    Yes, you could be writing about sport bikes, you could be writing about cameras but all of that is easily verifiable. You thought the bike seemed more powerful and faster? Let's throw it on the dyno, yep, Stephen was right, it is. That camera seems to take sharper pictures than the rest, what is the resolution? Oh, yeah it is higher! It is a verifiable fact. That lens has a nice BOKEH, yep, I see that and so does everyone else.

    Not so with audio. I heard blah, blah, blah, it sounded better than, this, that and the other. However, There is no way to quantify sound. What is good sound? What is really the RIGHT sound? Accurate sound? Where you there when Mozart played his music on a Fortepiano in 1785? No? Me neither, so we don't really know how THAT sounded in THAT acoustic space. Rather pointless then. We can only go by a flat response speaker as ACCURATE then? The DAC does not measure well... But we should not let measurements determine sound quality! NO, NO, NO! Ok, so what is sound quality then and how does one quantify it? Where is the science? Where is the proof?

    Then we have this on top...

    We don't all hear the same, either through aging, disease process or the simple fact that people do not hear the same way period and science tells us that. But going further... There is no way YOUR system is going to sound the same in MY room, let alone different components in combination with others...

    So all of that is fine, it is what it is. It is like dealing with anything related to other senses. This painting is magnificent! Look at those colors! But I am color blind and I don't like modern art?

    This red wine tastes GREAT, I would award it 96 point because I am a professional wine taster. Wait, that wasn't fair, I know I confused white wine for red but I was blindfolded! (True story)

    That violin that is playing is the Stradivarius, I know because I am a professional violin player and I can tell with my eyes closed. Oh wait, that wasn't fair, I was blind folded... (True story)

    This cable sounds much better than all the rest. How so? I can hear it! Let's see how well you can pick it out. Oh wait, that wasn't fair... I was blindfolded... Yeah, we don't like our double blind tests, do we?

    This footer, this rack, they just sound soooo much better! How so? Where and how does vibration come into play with electronic circuits and affect sound? Where is the science on that? But I can hear it! See the blindfolded part again...

    So Stephen, in conclusion, yeah, writing about audio is very different. It is not objective, it is very SUBJECTIVE. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, it is better than most Science Fiction out there! It gets wickedly left field and stretching the imaginable science realm beyond reasonable.

    Cables with the strand geometry based on Egyptian Pyramids?

    Fancy outlets that produce what nature does with Millions of volts of lightning in the atmosphere and claim that it is also a benefit to sound?

    CD demagnetizers?


    Give me a break here. The madness seems to be subsiding from the 90s but certain magazines have had their big part in creating the mysticism movement...

    I do use the magazines from time to time to check on specs, features and the good quality pictures of the product. I'll give them that. Everything else is creative writing. The magazine relies on advertising bucks and the manufacturer that sent the product in for a review would like to receive a positive review, it can make or break him/her. Win-Win? Yeah, for the most part that is exactly how it works. That plus one often gets to keep the gear or at least enjoy a professional courtesy discount and blow it out eventually on A'gon.


    I personally do not have any issues with it, I am well aware and as such, I make my own decisions based on my needs/wants/budget/desires but I realize that both magazines and the contributing staff need to get compensated, as do the audio manufacturers need to make a healthy profit. It's all good. You pay to play. Some pay MORE, some pay LESS.

    Now, you probably know me well by now, I always say it like it is. Your "enthusiasm" for a certain brand is more than noticeable. Perhaps it is completely genuine, I want to believe that but If I had a dollar for every time I came across one of your not so subtle endorsements, well, I would be investing into a fancy cable outfit and making you a very generous offer to be my brand ambassador. Talent should be rewarded and that was always my business motto in life.

    Don't take it personally and I do enjoy creative writing, yours as well as other reviewers and members of various forums. Some just get compensated for it and others do it for passion of the hobby. Don't be surprised when some folks start to confuse your enthusiasm with other motives. It is a normal response.
    Serge

  34. #34

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    Let me clear: I do no work for any audio company. I'm a contributing writer for TAS who reviews are published roughly twice a year.

    As for TAS knowing about me doing product photography for the products I review, the answer is Yes, and they are pleased to have me do it when the product photos meet their standards & requirements for articles. If it meets the Art Director's standards and requirements, they'll use them because it frees up the art department's bandwidth to work on other products in for review. They have a lot of products that get reviewed every year, products that need photography or artwork, and publishing a monthly magazine is a lot of work, so if I can help them out with that workload, I'm happy to help. We're all one team.
    I feel like I just walked into a fish market. How can you say you donít work for any audio company when you just stated some of the companies you are doing photography shoots for? Do we need a new definition for the word ďworkĒ?
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  35. #35

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    I feel like I just walked into a fish market. How can you say you donít work for any audio company when you just stated some of the companies you are doing photography shoots for? Do we need a new definition for the word ďworkĒ?
    I'm not paid for my photography. I do it strictly for fun to develop my technical skills. Thus, I don't "work" for any of these companies. Can we move on, now?

  36. #36

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Your "enthusiasm" for a certain brand is more than noticeable
    I have enthusiasm for a lot of brands. I'm a very discerning customer and as such, I'm a generally a (very strong) advocate for companies that I really like that make high-quality products that meet customer needs and provide quality and value: Honda Motor, Fujifilm, Canon, Conrad-Johnson, Schiit Audio, Etymotic, Harbeth, Dynaudio, Sinn, Snap-On Tools, Stahlwille torque wrenches, Zeiss Microscopes, Rainin Pipettors, GIK Acoustics. I'm equally enthusiastic about all these companies and their products. Folks that know me personally will know I'm just as enthusiastic about my Fuji cameras and my Sinn watches as I am about any audio company's products. If this were a photography forum, folks would read a lot of posts from me about how much I like Canon 1-D bodies because they have superb image quality, the are superbly made and very responsive in demanding applications, and they work and work and work, and almost never break.

    Perhaps it is completely genuine.
    It is. I enjoy and find rewarding helping folks to have positive, engaging and rewarding experiences with the products they use; it's that simple.

    If that sounds altruistic, well...it is.

    ...writing about audio is very different. It is not objective, it is very SUBJECTIVE.
    Yeah, it is. So is the experience of listening to music, or riding my Honda CBR600RR through Wooden Valley Road. They are uplifting experiences, emotionally, psychologically and spiritually.

    I don't have any problem with that. I live for those experiences. I'm not going to lie on my death bed wishing I had conducted SINAD measurements (god forbid!), but I might wish I had gone for one more mountain bike ride down on single-track on the Off the Top Trail at Mammoth.

    So, if other folks have shared sensibilities, and find what I write to be enjoyable or helpful...that's great. If not, hey, it's not the heat death of the Universe.

  37. #37

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    I have enthusiasm for a lot of brands. I'm a very discerning customer and as such, I'm a generally a (very strong) advocate) for companies that I really like and make high-quality products that meet customer needs and provide quality and value: Honda Motor, Fujifilm, Canon, Conrad-Johnson, Schiit Audio, Etymotic, Harbeth, Dynaudio, Sinn, Snap-On Tools, Stahlwille torque wrenches, Zeiss Microscopes, Rainin Pipettors, GIK Acoustics. I'm pretty much equally enthusiastic about all these companies and their products.


    It is. I enjoy and find reward helping folks to have positive, engaging and rewarding experiences with the products they use; it's that simple.

    If that sounds altruistic, well, it is.



    Yeah, it is. And so is viewing a photograph by James Nachtwey or William Eggleston.

    I don't have any problem with that.

    I only mentioned science because you were mentioning science and measurements above. In this hobby of ours, the hyperboles and either hiding behind it or rejecting it, depending on which position is more favorable for the argument is beyond funny. Whatís even funnier is when a scientists by day, turns into a mystic by night with the flip of the audio system ďonĒ switch. Measurements are good, measurements are bad...

    As far as enthusiasm... Entusiasm is the electricity of life. Nothing great has ever been achieved without it. Of course the entusiasm is also universal and does not itself hold prejudice against the purpose for which it is practiced.
    Serge

  38. #38

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    I only mentioned science because you were mentioning science and measurements above. In this hobby of ours, the hyperboles and either hiding behind it or rejecting it, depending on which position is more favorable for the argument is beyond funny. Whatís even funnier is when a scientists by day, turns into a mystic by night with the flip of the audio system ďonĒ switch. Measurements are good, measurements are bad...

    As far as enthusiasm... Entusiasm is the electricity of life. Nothing great has ever been achieved without it. Of course the entusiasm is also universal and does not itself hold prejudice against the purpose for which it is practiced.
    My thought is we should get back on-topic....

    So...how 'bout them Niners?

  39. #39
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Bingo. The more things change, the more they stay the same. This hobby is waaaay too predictable. Dr. Freud would have had a field day with this hobby in his time...
    Dr. Freud... please don't get me started on the coke addict .
    Hattor, T+A, Bel Canto, Rega, Technics, SimAudio, Magnepan, Rythmik, Astell & Kern, HeadAmp, Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  40. #40

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    As a Taiko Extreme owner I'm commited to Emile's ecosystem and will no doubt purchase his switch when it is released to market. Having said this, I currently use an EtherRegen and it was a significant addition to my system...I was surprised at how much better it was than the generic Netgear switch previously used. I power the EtherRegen from an Uptone JS2 LPS and that is a great product too and highly recommended.

  41. #41

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Dr. Freud... please don't get me started on the coke addict .
    And we are all here on this audio forum because we are addiction free?
    Serge

  42. #42
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    And we are all here on this audio forum because we are addiction free?
    Hehe.. true...

    ... the class on Freud back in University was about the most absurd class I think I ever have taken.

    By the way, them Niners blow (honestly I have no idea if the 49ers are good or bad this year, I am a Baseball fan not a Football fan, just stirring the pot )
    Hattor, T+A, Bel Canto, Rega, Technics, SimAudio, Magnepan, Rythmik, Astell & Kern, HeadAmp, Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  43. #43

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Hehe.. true...

    ... the class on Freud back in University was about the most absurd class I think I ever have taken.

    By the way, them Niners blow (honestly I have no idea if the 49ers are good or bad this year, I am a Baseball fan not a Football fan, just stirring the pot )
    I actually enjoyed psychology classes very much. Some seriously interesting stories from my professor who spent 30+ plus years working in a mental institution.

    I should have asked him what he thought about a hobby where we purchase equipment often exceeding a cost of a luxury car to listen to music of composers who have been dead for centuries and neither them, not the musicians that brought us their music ever owned stuff like we do for "fidelity" reasons....

    The "dead composer society"?
    Serge

  44. #44

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by fizzletop View Post
    As a Taiko Extreme owner I'm commited to Emile's ecosystem and will no doubt purchase his switch when it is released to market. Having said this, I currently use an EtherRegen and it was a significant addition to my system...I was surprised at how much better it was than the generic Netgear switch previously used. I power the EtherRegen from an Uptone JS2 LPS and that is a great product too and highly recommended.
    Yeah, the JS2 LPS is an excellent linear power supply; BTW, the JS stands for John Swenson, who also designed EtherREGEN (and Sonore's products). You can also use it to power a Mac Mini with their MMK if you are using one to remove the SMPS, and replace it with the MMK that lets you use the JS2. It supports powering two devices.

    Mac mini DC-Conversion / Linear Fan Controller Kit (MMK) – UpTone Audio

    Oh! There I go again advocating for really good products from really good companies...

  45. #45
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Dr. Freud... please don't get me started on the coke addict .



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  46. #46
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    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    I actually enjoyed psychology classes very much. Some seriously interesting stories from my professor who spent 30+ plus years working in a mental institution.

    I should have asked him what he thought about a hobby where we purchase equipment often exceeding a cost of a luxury car to listen to music of composers who have been dead for centuries and neither them, not the musicians that brought us their music ever owned stuff like we do for "fidelity" reasons....

    The "dead composer society"?
    I actually have a degree in Psychology, which is really weird for a computer programmer data guy .... I really thought that Freud was a lunatic though .
    Hattor, T+A, Bel Canto, Rega, Technics, SimAudio, Magnepan, Rythmik, Astell & Kern, HeadAmp, Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  47. #47

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post

    By the way, them Niners blow (honestly I have no idea if the 49ers are good or bad this year, I am a Baseball fan not a Football fan, just stirring the pot )
    Neither do I; I'm a tennis fan (Vamos Rafa, who won his 20th Major this year).

    But I woud like for us to get back on-topic...speaking of which, I just checked the UpTone Audio site, and they had sold almost 2000 units by October; I'm sure they're past that at this point. They mentioned they are selling them faster than they can get circuit boards in.

    $1.3M in gross revenue for a single audio product in a single year for a small, 3-person company is a pretty good year.

  48. #48

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    ...

    This red wine tastes GREAT, I would award it 96 point because I am a professional wine taster. Wait, that wasn't fair, I know I confused white wine for red but I was blindfolded! (True story)

    That violin that is playing is the Stradivarius, I know because I am a professional violin player and I can tell with my eyes closed. Oh wait, that wasn't fair, I was blind folded... (True story)

    This cable sounds much better than all the rest. How so? I can hear it! Let's see how well you can pick it out. Oh wait, that wasn't fair... I was blindfolded... Yeah, we don't like our double blind tests, do we?

    This footer, this rack, they just sound soooo much better! How so? Where and how does vibration come into play with electronic circuits and affect sound? Where is the science on that? But I can hear it! See the blindfolded part again...

    ...
    That is funny, and crazy when you realize that it actually happened!

  49. #49

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    That is funny, and crazy when you realize that it actually happened!
    What is even funnier is a few people getting together and pulling a fast one on international wine competition. People attending the show and judges themselves voted their water, vinegar and juice concoction with a fancy bottle label of a new company into 2nd place after a prestigious wine maker. It's human nature, intriguing labels and group confirmation bias really works.
    Serge

  50. #50

    Re: Ethernet switch box

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post

    But I woud like for us to get back on-topic...speaking of which, I just checked the UpTone Audio site, and they had sold almost 2000 units by October; I'm sure they're past that at this point. They mentioned they are selling them faster than they can get circuit boards in.

    $1.3M in gross revenue for a single audio product in a single year for a small, 3-person company is a pretty good year.
    Whether that box does anything or nothing at all will not harm anyone but make your wallet a bit lighter. So it went and keeps going on since the days of Noel Lee and his Monster Cable... If measurements show nothing, the ear will tell you otherwise. If it doesn't, well you know the story of the Emperor with no clothes... Can't look silly and say you can't hear a difference now, that would be so un-audiophile like right? Those that do point it out should be criticized and ostracized because the show MUST GO ON. But hey, it is a hobby, not a life saving apparatus. No harm done either way.

    I watched "Jazz in the Attic" the other day, about all the hard-boppers of that time in NYC. Funny how Thelonious Monk and all the other jazz players never complained about listening to scratched and beat up records of jazz on a cheap, plastic record player, for reference and while composing music and just had a great time playing together without any regard as to acoustics or any of the stuff we fuss over.

    A switch will not make or break a system, inserting it in the chain where there was none, will not improve sound. It simply buys a peace of mind. So, yeah, if a single audio product in the form of an insignificant little box can bring in over a Mil in revenue, while the measurements and a listening test by someone capable of running a test on it shows nothing, it speaks of their creativity and the individual who bought a peace of mind.
    Serge

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