Ethernet switch box

Puma Cat said:
Don't get me started with ASR. They don't even do MSAs on their measurement system.

In fact, my guess is they wouldn't even know an MSA if it smacked them in the face.

Anyone doing meaurements without qualifying the measurement system with a statistically valid MSA cannot make any meaningful statements nor draw any meaningful or statistically valid interences about their measurements.

Has ASR ever done MS repeatibility validation? No.
Has ASR ever done MS reproducbility validation? No.
Has ASR ever done measurement system*operator variance analysis? No.
Has ASR ever done measurement system*part variance analysis? No.
Has ASR ever demonstrated smallest statistically effective measurement increment? No.

Gimme a break...I used to teach this stuff professionally...

Sorry, ASR has virtually no credibility from me. Those guys were biased about EtherREGEN and trashing it BEFORE it even shipped. Sorry, but that is NOT science. Real scientists don't bias themselves, and in particular, they don't bias themselves in the complete absence of data. I was scientist my entire professional career, and these guys give science a bad name.
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Can we have a list of the audio companies that you are representing as a brand ambassador/marketing agent or any other title?
 
Puma Cat said:
Don't get me started with ASR. They don't even do MSAs on their measurement system.

In fact, my guess is they wouldn't even know an MSA if it smacked them in the face.

Anyone doing meaurements without qualifying the measurement system with a statistically valid MSA cannot make any meaningful statements nor draw any meaningful or statistically valid interences about their measurements.

Has ASR ever done MS repeatibility validation? No.
Has ASR ever done MS reproducbility validation? No.
Has ASR ever done measurement system*operator variance analysis? No.
Has ASR ever done measurement system*part variance analysis? No.
Has ASR ever demonstrated smallest statistically effective measurement increment? No.

Gimme a break...I used to teach this stuff professionally...

Sorry, ASR has virtually no credibility from me. Those guys were biased about EtherREGEN and trashing it BEFORE it even shipped. Sorry, but that is NOT science. Real scientists don't bias themselves, and in particular, they don't bias themselves in the complete absence of data. I was scientist my entire professional career, and these guys give science a bad name.
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Have you been able to do measurements against say a standard switch? That could certainly dispel their findings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
mep said:
Can we have a list of the audio companies that you are representing as a brand ambassador/marketing agent or any other title?
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I'm not representing ANY company as a brand ambassador or marketing agent. I bought and use my own EtherREGEN.
 
Puma Cat said:
I'm not representing ANY company as a brand ambassador or marketing agent. I bought and use my own EtherREGEN.
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Really now. You sure give a lot of time to answering all questions related to Shunyata. Didn’t you previously state that you perform product photography for Shunyata as well as being a beta tester for all their new products?
 
Mike said:
Have you been able to do measurements against say a standard switch? That could certainly dispel their findings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Hi Mike, no, I don't have any measurement equipment here. And I'm not in the test and measurement business, either.

And as far as I know, the only person that has the relevant measurement system and measurement protocol is John Swenson, so I'll defer to his 40 years of professional expertise in this specific discipline.
 
Puma Cat said:
I'm confident you will be very happy with it. You can also obtain a no-questions asked, full refund within 30 days if you don't like it. But, I am very confident you will.

Acc. to information from UpTone Audio, as of July 2020, they had sold over 1500 EtherREGENs, and to date only had 5 returned from customers. That is a return-rate of....0.03%. They have likely sold 2000 or more as of today. Alex Crespi of UpTone told me that orders "are flooding in" since my review in TAS was published just a few weeks ago.
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Bingo. The more things change, the more they stay the same. This hobby is waaaay too predictable. Dr. Freud would have had a field day with this hobby in his time...
 
Switches, schmitches... The best clock is a Tice Clock! Everyone knows it :D He sold a lot of them back in his day. :yahoo1:
 
mep said:
Really now. You sure give a lot of time to answering all questions related to Shunyata. Didn’t you previously state that you perform product photography for Shunyata as well as being a beta tester for all their new products?
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I am not an employee nor brand ambassador for Shunyata Research, or any other audio company, for that matter. I'm retired scientist and part-time commercial photographer who does some writing for an audio magazine. At some point in time, once we're past this pandemic, I may go back to the lab bench part-time, because I miss doin' science.

I don't answer all questions, related to Shunyata, only questions where my direct experience may prove useful for potential customers with respect to what they may find to be a value proposition.

I have done some occasional beta testing for Shunyata, but I do not beta test all their products. Who they use for beta testers depends on the product and what information they need for development purposes for that specific product. So, for example, if memory serves, SCAudiophile has mentioned he's done some beta testing for them for their clock cables, because he uses clock cables in his system. I don't, so there would be no reason for me to beta-test a clock cable. I beta-tested their new Shunyata Ethernet cables because I was building out my digital streaming system at the same time they needed to do beta-testing, so the timing worked out well for both parties. I rented in the products I evaluated in the competitive benchmarking I did from The Cable Company at my own expense. It was really informative for me, and I had a lot of fun doing that project, so I see it as a win-win. With respect to beta-testing on the whole, I'm open to doing beta-testing for any of a number of audio manufacturers, as I find it intellectually engaging and informative.

I do some occasional product photography for Shunyata because 1) it's fun and 2) it helps me develop my product photography skills for my developing commerical photography business. They occasionally send me some stuff to shoot, and it's a win-win because I get to practice my product photography on some pretty cool products. I send the products and photos back, and they are free to use whatever photos they want. Or, not. FWIW, I also did some product photography for the Gold Note PH-10 phono stage I reviewed and I will likely do some on the Rega Planar 10 and Lampizator Baltic-3 DAC I have in for review. All these different products help me develop my skills...again, it's a win-win.
 
TheOctopus said:
Bingo. The more things change, the more they stay the same. This hobby is waaaay too predictable. Dr. Freud would have had a field day with this hobby in his time...
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I'm not exactly sure what your point is here, Serge, but there all sorts of products in the market. Those products get reviewed in written or video reviews, and customers use those reviews, hopefully, to make informed decisions about whether those products would meet their needs and represent a value proposition. Its the same whether the product is audio gear, cameras, cars, sport bikes, home theatre or wrist-watches. I could just as well be writing about mirrorless digital cameras or watches, and some folks will read those reviews and find it informative enough to make an informed purchasing decisions.
 
Puma Cat said:
I am not an employee nor brand ambassador for Shunyata Research, or any other audio company, for that matter. I'm retired scientist and part-time commercial photographer who does some writing for an audio magazine. At some point in time, once we're past this pandemic, I may go back to the lab bench part-time, because I miss doin' science.

I don't answer all questions, related to Shunyata, only questions where my direct experience may prove useful for potential customers with respect to what they may find to be a value proposition.

I have done some occasional beta testing for Shunyata, but I do not beta test all their products. Who they use for beta testers depends on the product and what information they need for development purposes for that specific product. So, for example, if memory serves, SCAudiophile has mentioned he's done some beta testing for them for their clock cables, because he uses clock cables in his system. I don't, so there would be no reason for me to beta-test a clock cable. I beta-tested their new Shunyata Ethernet cables because I was building out my digital streaming system at the same time they needed to do beta-testing, so the timing worked out well for both parties. I rented in the products I evaluated in the competitive benchmarking I did from The Cable Company at my own expense. It was really informative for me, and I had a lot of fun doing that project, so I see it as a win-win. With respect to beta-testing on the whole, I'm open to doing beta-testing for any of a number of audio manufacturers, as I find it intellectually engaging and informative.

I do some occasional product photography for Shunyata because 1) it's fun and 2) it helps me develop my product photography skills for my developing commerical photography business. They occasionally send me some stuff to shoot, and it's a win-win because I get to practice my product photography on some pretty cool products. I send the products and photos back, and they are free to use whatever photos they want. Or, not. FWIW, I also did some product photography for the Gold Note PH-10 phono stage I reviewed and I will likely do some on the Rega Planar 10 and Lampizator Baltic-3 DAC I have in for review. All these different products help me develop my skills...again, it's a win-win.
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I’m glad you added more disclosure of who you are working for. Does TAS know you are doing product photography for the companies that you are reviewing their products in TAS?
 
mep said:
I’m glad you added more disclosure of who you are working for. Does TAS know you are doing product photography for the companies that you are reviewing their products in TAS?
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Let me be clear: I do not work for any audio company. I'm a contributing writer for TAS whose reviews are published roughly twice a year.

As for TAS knowing about me doing product photography for the products I review, the answer is Yes, and they are pleased to have me do it when the product photos meet their standards & requirements for articles. If it meets the Art Director's standards and requirements, they'll use them because it frees up the art department's bandwidth to work on other products in for review. They have a lot of products that get reviewed every year, products that need photography or artwork, and publishing a monthly magazine is a lot of work, so if I can help them out with that workload, I'm happy to help. We're all one team.
 
Puma Cat said:
I'm not exactly sure what your point is here, Serge, but there all sorts of products in the market. Those products get reviewed in written or video reviews, and customers use those reviews, hopefully, to make informed decisions about whether those products would meet their needs and represent a value proposition. Its the same whether the product is audio gear, cameras, cars, sport bikes, home theatre or wrist-watches. I could just as well be writing about mirrorless digital cameras or watches, and some folks will read those reviews and find it informative enough to make an informed purchasing decisions.
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Well, for the record Stephen, I know how magazines work. I was a partner in a print magazine before as one of my business ventures. So I know how far subscription money goes and how much farther "advertising" bucks go and what product placement is. It is not a secret and it is a game played by all forms of consumer targeted media.

But let me focus on the other part. You were/are a scientist? So lets dive in.

I'm having a bit of a problem with "informed decisions" when it comes to high end audio magazines. It's all fun, it is just a hobby, perhaps taken way too seriously by some but that's fine, whatever floats your boat, right?

Yes, you could be writing about sport bikes, you could be writing about cameras but all of that is easily verifiable. You thought the bike seemed more powerful and faster? Let's throw it on the dyno, yep, Stephen was right, it is. That camera seems to take sharper pictures than the rest, what is the resolution? Oh, yeah it is higher! It is a verifiable fact. That lens has a nice BOKEH, yep, I see that and so does everyone else.

Not so with audio. I heard blah, blah, blah, it sounded better than, this, that and the other. However, There is no way to quantify sound. What is good sound? What is really the RIGHT sound? Accurate sound? Where you there when Mozart played his music on a Fortepiano in 1785? No? Me neither, so we don't really know how THAT sounded in THAT acoustic space. Rather pointless then. We can only go by a flat response speaker as ACCURATE then? The DAC does not measure well... But we should not let measurements determine sound quality! NO, NO, NO! Ok, so what is sound quality then and how does one quantify it? Where is the science? Where is the proof?

Then we have this on top...

We don't all hear the same, either through aging, disease process or the simple fact that people do not hear the same way period and science tells us that. But going further... There is no way YOUR system is going to sound the same in MY room, let alone different components in combination with others...

So all of that is fine, it is what it is. It is like dealing with anything related to other senses. This painting is magnificent! Look at those colors! But I am color blind and I don't like modern art?

This red wine tastes GREAT, I would award it 96 point because I am a professional wine taster. Wait, that wasn't fair, I know I confused white wine for red but I was blindfolded! (True story)

That violin that is playing is the Stradivarius, I know because I am a professional violin player and I can tell with my eyes closed. Oh wait, that wasn't fair, I was blind folded... (True story)

This cable sounds much better than all the rest. How so? I can hear it! Let's see how well you can pick it out. Oh wait, that wasn't fair... I was blindfolded... Yeah, we don't like our double blind tests, do we?

This footer, this rack, they just sound soooo much better! How so? Where and how does vibration come into play with electronic circuits and affect sound? Where is the science on that? But I can hear it! See the blindfolded part again...

So Stephen, in conclusion, yeah, writing about audio is very different. It is not objective, it is very SUBJECTIVE. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, it is better than most Science Fiction out there! It gets wickedly left field and stretching the imaginable science realm beyond reasonable.

Cables with the strand geometry based on Egyptian Pyramids?

Fancy outlets that produce what nature does with Millions of volts of lightning in the atmosphere and claim that it is also a benefit to sound?

CD demagnetizers?


Give me a break here. The madness seems to be subsiding from the 90s but certain magazines have had their big part in creating the mysticism movement...

I do use the magazines from time to time to check on specs, features and the good quality pictures of the product. I'll give them that. Everything else is creative writing. The magazine relies on advertising bucks and the manufacturer that sent the product in for a review would like to receive a positive review, it can make or break him/her. Win-Win? Yeah, for the most part that is exactly how it works. That plus one often gets to keep the gear or at least enjoy a professional courtesy discount and blow it out eventually on A'gon.


I personally do not have any issues with it, I am well aware and as such, I make my own decisions based on my needs/wants/budget/desires but I realize that both magazines and the contributing staff need to get compensated, as do the audio manufacturers need to make a healthy profit. It's all good. You pay to play. Some pay MORE, some pay LESS.

Now, you probably know me well by now, I always say it like it is. Your "enthusiasm" for a certain brand is more than noticeable. Perhaps it is completely genuine, I want to believe that but If I had a dollar for every time I came across one of your not so subtle endorsements, well, I would be investing into a fancy cable outfit and making you a very generous offer to be my brand ambassador. Talent should be rewarded and that was always my business motto in life.

Don't take it personally and I do enjoy creative writing, yours as well as other reviewers and members of various forums. Some just get compensated for it and others do it for passion of the hobby. Don't be surprised when some folks start to confuse your enthusiasm with other motives. It is a normal response.
 
Puma Cat said:
Let me clear: I do no work for any audio company. I'm a contributing writer for TAS who reviews are published roughly twice a year.

As for TAS knowing about me doing product photography for the products I review, the answer is Yes, and they are pleased to have me do it when the product photos meet their standards & requirements for articles. If it meets the Art Director's standards and requirements, they'll use them because it frees up the art department's bandwidth to work on other products in for review. They have a lot of products that get reviewed every year, products that need photography or artwork, and publishing a monthly magazine is a lot of work, so if I can help them out with that workload, I'm happy to help. We're all one team.
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I feel like I just walked into a fish market. How can you say you don’t work for any audio company when you just stated some of the companies you are doing photography shoots for? Do we need a new definition for the word “work”?
 
mep said:
I feel like I just walked into a fish market. How can you say you don’t work for any audio company when you just stated some of the companies you are doing photography shoots for? Do we need a new definition for the word “work”?
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I'm not paid for my photography. I do it strictly for fun to develop my technical skills. Thus, I don't "work" for any of these companies. Can we move on, now?
 
TheOctopus said:
Your "enthusiasm" for a certain brand is more than noticeable
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I have enthusiasm for a lot of brands. I'm a very discerning customer and as such, I'm a generally a (very strong) advocate for companies that I really like that make high-quality products that meet customer needs and provide quality and value: Honda Motor, Fujifilm, Canon, Conrad-Johnson, Schiit Audio, Etymotic, Harbeth, Dynaudio, Sinn, Snap-On Tools, Stahlwille torque wrenches, Zeiss Microscopes, Rainin Pipettors, GIK Acoustics. I'm equally enthusiastic about all these companies and their products. Folks that know me personally will know I'm just as enthusiastic about my Fuji cameras and my Sinn watches as I am about any audio company's products. If this were a photography forum, folks would read a lot of posts from me about how much I like Canon 1-D bodies because they have superb image quality, the are superbly made and very responsive in demanding applications, and they work and work and work, and almost never break.

Perhaps it is completely genuine.
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It is. I enjoy and find rewarding helping folks to have positive, engaging and rewarding experiences with the products they use; it's that simple.

If that sounds altruistic, well...it is.

...writing about audio is very different. It is not objective, it is very SUBJECTIVE.
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Yeah, it is. So is the experience of listening to music, or riding my Honda CBR600RR through Wooden Valley Road. They are uplifting experiences, emotionally, psychologically and spiritually.

I don't have any problem with that. I live for those experiences. I'm not going to lie on my death bed wishing I had conducted SINAD measurements (god forbid!), but I might wish I had gone for one more mountain bike ride down on single-track on the Off the Top Trail at Mammoth.

So, if other folks have shared sensibilities, and find what I write to be enjoyable or helpful...that's great. If not, hey, it's not the heat death of the Universe.
 
Puma Cat said:
I have enthusiasm for a lot of brands. I'm a very discerning customer and as such, I'm a generally a (very strong) advocate) for companies that I really like and make high-quality products that meet customer needs and provide quality and value: Honda Motor, Fujifilm, Canon, Conrad-Johnson, Schiit Audio, Etymotic, Harbeth, Dynaudio, Sinn, Snap-On Tools, Stahlwille torque wrenches, Zeiss Microscopes, Rainin Pipettors, GIK Acoustics. I'm pretty much equally enthusiastic about all these companies and their products.


It is. I enjoy and find reward helping folks to have positive, engaging and rewarding experiences with the products they use; it's that simple.

If that sounds altruistic, well, it is.



Yeah, it is. And so is viewing a photograph by James Nachtwey or William Eggleston.

I don't have any problem with that.
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I only mentioned science because you were mentioning science and measurements above. In this hobby of ours, the hyperboles and either hiding behind it or rejecting it, depending on which position is more favorable for the argument is beyond funny. What’s even funnier is when a scientists by day, turns into a mystic by night with the flip of the audio system “on” switch. Measurements are good, measurements are bad...

As far as enthusiasm... Entusiasm is the electricity of life. Nothing great has ever been achieved without it. Of course the entusiasm is also universal and does not itself hold prejudice against the purpose for which it is practiced. :)
 
TheOctopus said:
I only mentioned science because you were mentioning science and measurements above. In this hobby of ours, the hyperboles and either hiding behind it or rejecting it, depending on which position is more favorable for the argument is beyond funny. What’s even funnier is when a scientists by day, turns into a mystic by night with the flip of the audio system “on” switch. Measurements are good, measurements are bad...

As far as enthusiasm... Entusiasm is the electricity of life. Nothing great has ever been achieved without it. Of course the entusiasm is also universal and does not itself hold prejudice against the purpose for which it is practiced. :)
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My thought is we should get back on-topic....

So...how 'bout them Niners? :P
 
As a Taiko Extreme owner I'm commited to Emile's ecosystem and will no doubt purchase his switch when it is released to market. Having said this, I currently use an EtherRegen and it was a significant addition to my system...I was surprised at how much better it was than the generic Netgear switch previously used. I power the EtherRegen from an Uptone JS2 LPS and that is a great product too and highly recommended.
 
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