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Thread: Ethernet switch box
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November 30, 2020, 04:10 PM #151
Re: Ethernet switch box
First, it sounds as if your practical solution doesn't quite agree with the theoretical perspective from the first sentence. Second, it's hard to see how they would even theoretically sound the same since there is likely to be all sorts of switching noise and other grunge at the transmitting end (Tidal or Qobuz)
I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm still trying to best configure a server/DAC combination using local storage, a setup you also now seem to be using. I'm not really interested in streaming at this time.Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
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November 30, 2020, 04:26 PM #152
Re: Ethernet switch box
I do think there could be sonic improvements to be had by replacing a SMPS with a linear power supply, but I’m not sure all digital devices will benefit equally. In my setup, I would like to hear the difference with a linear power supply powering my Roon Nucleus+ vice the wall wart it comes with.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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November 30, 2020, 04:36 PM #153
Re: Ethernet switch box
Are you serious? I can't believe you are an engineer and you made that statement. We damn sure have figured out how to take measurements and prove that something works. It's called science. We even know how to measure the measurement devices and prove they are still accurate. It's called calibration and we actually have national calibration standards. We didn't send men to the moon based on feelings and hunches.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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November 30, 2020, 04:40 PM #154
Re: Ethernet switch box
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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November 30, 2020, 04:48 PM #155
Re: Ethernet switch box
I wouldn't be ready to take that leap of faith. They are both stored digital files that you are calling up and playing. Some people are adamant that the best sounding digital reproduction is going to come from spinning a CD on a high end CD spinner like a CEC belt drive transport feeding into a good DAC.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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November 30, 2020, 04:57 PM #156
Re: Ethernet switch box
Boy has this thread moved on to cover several topics.
Jim
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November 30, 2020, 05:17 PM #157
Re: Ethernet switch box
Very true. The other thing to consider when streaming would be format itself. Obviously I understand the original recording and all of that, but assuming all else being equivalent the format does become a factor. DSD for example... or even higher DSD, like DSD256 or DSD512. These take up far too much bandwidth to be able to practically stream. Therefore all of these discussions pretty much center around CD quality, or slightly higher resolutions from that. I put forth the proposition and question, do these lower resolutions truly allow for true audiophile comparisons in conjunction to streaming?
I have done comparisons, even MQA which its main practical use is to allow streaming slightly higher resolution without taking up too much bandwidth. A gentleman I know, David Elias worked for years in the high technology field. He was one of the first artist to fully embrace recording in the DSD format. He is also one of the first artist to fully embrace and support MQA, which he now offers his entire library in. As he has stated to me, DSD is the most "analog sounding" digital format. MQA is well equipped for streaming and use in portables players because of file size and bandwidth requirements while retaining better resolution performance. I think portable use of MQA is fairly negatable now since storage limits are not much of a factor any more. New portables can carry more than a TB of music with you.
I have all of David's albums recorded in DSD and his reworked versions to DSD512 (yes there is a difference). He also sent me his MQA versions of some of these albums to compare. In my view and to my ears the MQA versions sound better than the CD rips, but are far inferior to the DSD versions.
I compared these with my new portable. The Astell & Kern can play files up to DSD256 and fully unfolds MQA. It allows to use either ESS's new top of the line chips, the ES9068AS, or AKM's newest flagship the AK4499EQ. Therefore I was able to compare DSD versions and the MQA versions from an artist who fully embraces both technologies through two of the top DAC chip makers latest flagship products. I also used a balance Black Dragon cable and my Abyss Diana Phi cans which I will argue are as good as any headphone that can be used with a portable player.
Therefore the ability of being able to stream certain files are also a worthy consideration. ... Just my two cents.McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
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November 30, 2020, 05:18 PM #158
Re: Ethernet switch box
McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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November 30, 2020, 05:19 PM #159
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Re: Ethernet switch box
yes, I am serious and there is no shame in admitting it. Moreover, I am not a manufacturer or a reviewer, so there is no lunch for me doing all these, neither its my job. There is definitely science behind it, its just that nobody has figured it out. FFT, Sinad and Jtest is not the end of the world. Anyway, I will keep it short and simple - I don't really think you understood any of it when you make a statement like that.
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November 30, 2020, 05:27 PM #160
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Re: Ethernet switch box
I said theoretically because you are streaming the same bitstream from both the places. There is absolutely NO noise or grunge that is carried forward with the Tidal/Qobuz data stream (consider them audio packets), otherwise the world you have come to a scratching halt. Whoever is touting this is spreading misinformation!
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November 30, 2020, 05:32 PM #161
Re: Ethernet switch box
Why is there no grunge in the data path from the streaming supplier but there is in your data path?
Rob
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Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
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November 30, 2020, 05:39 PM #162Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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November 30, 2020, 05:41 PM #163
Re: Ethernet switch box
Exactly. Was wondering the same thing. I would be much more worried about all those crap lines that the data is traveling through before even getting to my ISP and then their lines to my house much more so than the lines in my house. But I do not believe any of these can compare to the higher level AQ USB cable that connects from my server to the DAC.
McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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November 30, 2020, 05:54 PM #164
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Re: Ethernet switch box
Either you are not reading it properly or you are deliberately twisting it. Which one ? And I don't understand what you mean by data path either
I am starting to have a feeling that its going into a direction where many threads land up (sayers vs naysayers), like a courthouse if you will
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November 30, 2020, 06:11 PM #165
Re: Ethernet switch box
see below, dupe
Rob
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Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
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November 30, 2020, 06:16 PM #166
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Re: Ethernet switch box
it is the switch and networkbridge who makes streaming worse or better than cd....that easy
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November 30, 2020, 06:17 PM #167
Re: Ethernet switch box
I'm not the only one baffled, so you might consider going through it all again.
You appear to be concerned about noise and other non-signal artifacts appearing in the path the digital data traverses from its arrival in your home (at the ISP modem) to the DAC. This potentially involves cables, switches, routers, etc, as well as power supplies to each component that needs one. However, in some way the path the digital data travels to get to your home is free of such interference, or else some process effectively removes it as it arrives at your modem. If you can, please clarify your understanding of this for the rest of us?
I do understand that accurate "clocking" of the data entering the DAC is important (although how much one "needs" an external clock may be open to debate, since many high-end DACs offer clocking upgrade options)Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
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November 30, 2020, 06:18 PM #168
Re: Ethernet switch box
Rob
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Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
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November 30, 2020, 06:33 PM #169
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Re: Ethernet switch box
Now I am baffled but I think I understand the confusion. Its possible that I haven't articulated it well. Is it safe to assume you understand how data is transmitted from the Tidal to your music server and finally your DAC ? If not, I suggest you read up on them first, otherwise we aren't volume matched
In short, the noise is "potentially" in the analog domain and it manifests into different shape and form by the network events - that is what many manufacturers/designers seem to believe and there is NO measurements to demonstrate this. Someday we will figure it out but for now we don't know why. Let me be very clear about this. The streaming packets itself doesn't carry any noise or grunge but the act of streaming itself causes churns to occur in a way it effects the sound quality. That is why I said earlier, my local storage sound better than NAS but I have not optimized my network to the extent possible due to various reasons.
I hope I am able to clear some of it. I understand its complex, messy and not easily digestible.
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November 30, 2020, 06:40 PM #170
Re: Ethernet switch box
Tom
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November 30, 2020, 06:46 PM #171
Re: Ethernet switch box
Here is where you and Mark differ. I am not sure, but I suspect his educational and occupational background qualifies him to have an informed opinion. If the digital data is transmitted as packets on an analog line, then noise can certainly be introduced. If the digital data is then perfectly reassembled at the modem, router, or DAC, then jitter/clocking should be all that matters (and all higher end DACs address this to one degree or another).
In any case, as I posted a while ago, just another reason for me not to get into streaming.Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
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November 30, 2020, 06:59 PM #172
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November 30, 2020, 07:03 PM #173
Re: Ethernet switch box
The thing that is confusing me about this conversation. Some say that the signal, the data packets coming from Tidal or Quobuz, or whatever are not affected, others believe that data is data and weather it is traveling across lines around the world or inside your network it is the same thing, a data pack that requires be converted by the DAC. If there is no difference then why would a higher audiophile switch make any differences at all. Some have even stated that the difference is that "Tidal and Quobuz are not doing any D/A conversion", and so if this is the case then only the DAC would matter since it is the only piece of gear actually performing D/A conversion. Maybe I am thick, maybe I have Alzheimer's, but my mind tells me the data travelling across the lines around the world can certainly affect things the same way as those inside my network??? If it is only the DAC then why do my AQ Coffee USB cables sound better than the basic Wireworld I replaced, or generic ones for that matter?
McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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November 30, 2020, 07:32 PM #174
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Re: Ethernet switch box
I am now more confused than ever. You certainly made it as clear as...mud.
First it was 'Unfortunately, no one (I literally mean no one) has ever found a way to measure anything or prove anything.' Then, 'The noise is '"potentially" in the analog domain' but somehow 'many manufacturers/designers seem to believe and there is NO measurement to demonstrate this'. Yet somehow, other manufacturers are able to design products to fix the problem that 'no one (I literally mean no one)' cannot even measure or prove. And yet some audiophiles are buying these products!
Maybe it is time for folks to realize that the reason why the problem is 'complex, messy and not easily digestible.' or 'Someday we will figure it out' is because the noise only exists on some people's heads.
Nearly 50 years ago, humans landed a spacecraft in Mars!! It is just science guys.
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November 30, 2020, 07:34 PM #175
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Re: Ethernet switch box
Here comes the rain again....
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November 30, 2020, 07:36 PM #176
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Re: Ethernet switch box
see the switch as a conditioner......or actually better as a separator (the signal you want from the billions you dont want)
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November 30, 2020, 07:36 PM #177
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November 30, 2020, 07:39 PM #178
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November 30, 2020, 08:07 PM #179
Re: Ethernet switch box
Rob
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Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
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November 30, 2020, 08:33 PM #180
Re: Ethernet switch box
I enjoy streaming, no real hangups, simple , my ears hear music and I like it, the wifes enjoys it, but I stay away from the choice of the Blue Pill or Red Pill. As one can cost you a lot and give you hardly any noticeable payback for the upward cost vs what you already have. . And I don't have to keep up " with the Jones".
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November 30, 2020, 11:15 PM #181McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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November 30, 2020, 11:42 PM #182
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December 1, 2020, 08:56 AM #183
Re: Ethernet switch box
An underlying question does remain though; if we aren’t able to measure what an Ethernet switch does, how are they being designed (much less rated or evaluated for sonics)? Or is it only the audio effects which can’t be measured? Or did I not understand devg and pumacat’s discussion/disagreement about this earlier? And why couldn’t the switch function be built into the server or streamer?
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
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December 1, 2020, 09:01 AM #184
Re: Ethernet switch box
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
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December 1, 2020, 09:54 AM #185
Re: Ethernet switch box
Companies who design, manufacture, and test switches can certainly measure what an Ethernet switch does. Things get dicey when utility products that have been used for decades by commercial companies get the audiophile makeover. Things start getting gold plated and products that used to be dirt cheap before they received the audiophile makeover now suddenly become as expensive as source components. Then marketing kicks in with a slew of buzz words to describe all of the improvements that have been made to standard utility products that have proven their ability to work in commercial environments under constant use for many years. Switches are one example and Ethernet cables are another example.
You can purchase a standard 3 meter Ethernet cable for $8.04 or you can purchase an Audioquest 3 meter Diamond Ethernet cable for $2899.95.Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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December 1, 2020, 12:24 PM #186
Re: Ethernet switch box
We are able to measure the key functionality for a good-sounding Ethernet switch. As for how they are being designed, how the EtherREGN is designed is fully described at UpTone Audio's web page for ER. Have you read it?
As for putting RJ45 connectors, PHYs and flip-flops into a streamer, you could it, but it has to be done correctly. These other manufacturers need to be able to measure high-source leakage impedance current, which is not easy or straightforward. Even the design of the isolation transformer cores is important. Are these manufacturers using grounded center taps for the transformer cores to prevent AC leakage jumping from port to port if here is more than one port? None that I know of.
More to the point, the circuitry between ports on the ‘A’ side decreases phase-noise effects to some degree, but not nearly as much as crossing the ‘A’>’B’ moat. It is the differential isolators used in conjunction with the differential flip-flops that delivers the performance of the EtherREGEN. The differential isolators prevent the data-borne clock signature from getting onto the ground-plane of the PCB, while the differential flip-flops prevent the signature from getting into the flip-flop’s own internal ground network. Are other switch manufacturers doing this? None that I know of.
These other manufacturers need to be able to measure high-source leakage impedance current, and create two isolation zones, as I've described abovet to obtain the benefits ER provides for audio streaming applications; this is not easy or straightforward to do.
I've referenced and linked the white paper by John Swenson not once, but twice. It is worthwhile reading it.
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December 1, 2020, 12:49 PM #187
Re: Ethernet switch box
White papers are opinion, not fact or evidence. This is at least the second time you have mischaracterized it. I'm not saying you don't have good points, or that you might (or might not) be "right", but it's not appropriate to present promotional material and opinion as fact or evidence.
So far, everything here suggesting that "audiophile" ethernet switches provide an audible advantage over the filtering in a streamer appears to be all subjective, like so much in this hobby. And also like so much in this hobby, subjective opinions can and will differ.Rob
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December 1, 2020, 01:28 PM #188
Re: Ethernet switch box
Have you read it?
If you had, you'd see that the white paper is an engineering paper based on data, and is therefore not opinion nor promotional material. Thus, it was not being mischaracterized. It was linked, but not posted, and therefore not presented.
And...its not subjective. Just as f=ma or pv=nRT are not subjective.
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December 1, 2020, 01:39 PM #189
Re: Ethernet switch box
Rob
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Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
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December 1, 2020, 01:52 PM #190
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Re: Ethernet switch box
@Mike, what do you think ? You have all kinds of high/low profile stuff in your arsenal. Does the Audioquest sounds the same as the one from Amazon ?
In my system, the ones from Amazon actually transmits and receives bit-by-bit data accurately with appropriate latency and there is no TCP re-transmission or timeouts or dropouts, neither there are errors in the PHY or MAC statistics on the receiving end. I even tried a full-duplex line rate at 1.44M packets/sec from an Ixia port and they all work out Ok, though there are some drops in the receiver end which is to be expected at these high data rates and the cables aren't the problem. Having said that, for some reason or the other the $8.04 ethernet cable sounds like a $8.04 ethernet cable, until I tried 4 different ones - JCAT, Sablon, Wireworld and SoTM. This is why I moved to fiber which is dirt cheap as the $8.04 ones and saved a ton of money. If someone is interested in JCAT or Sablon, please PM me (I sold the others).
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December 1, 2020, 02:01 PM #191
Re: Ethernet switch box
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
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December 1, 2020, 02:12 PM #192
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Re: Ethernet switch box
I despise this as well. There is no reasons to have audiophile makeover for off-the shelf utilitarian items based off great IEEE standards with tight SI and leakages. Today you can get 10-port with 2x10G ethernet switch for $200 but we have to pay $640 for a audiophile 6-port switch which is even limited to 100Mbps on one port. Today's technology can do 400G per port and we can have many in a single unit. I for one would like to save my money if there is a way and this has been my quest as well.
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December 1, 2020, 02:24 PM #193
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Re: Ethernet switch box
Good question. You can send an email to the designer/manufacturer and see what they have to say. I don't think anybody here can answer to your satisfaction since none of here has designed them. I would be curios to know as well.
Many reasons but honestly I won't go over it since its extremely difficult to convey anything in this thread
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December 1, 2020, 03:10 PM #194
Re: Ethernet switch box
If you couldn’t measure what an Ethernet switch does, then they couldn’t have been designed, manufactured, and tested so let’s stop saying you can’t measure what an Ethernet switch does.
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December 1, 2020, 03:50 PM #195
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Re: Ethernet switch box
actually multiple products have some kind of filtering inside.
for example the melco servers have even outputs, so they can be used as a switch.
a big part of the improvement comes from putting 2 switches or more in serial. this is for galvanic decoupling as well.
you want your own switch for each unit in best case scenario, however, even if you have a built in unit, you still will benefit from more switches and theyr superior quality.
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December 1, 2020, 03:55 PM #196
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December 1, 2020, 04:02 PM #197Rob
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Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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December 1, 2020, 04:03 PM #198
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December 1, 2020, 04:22 PM #199
Re: Ethernet switch box
Talking about linear power supplies in this thread was an offshoot that started after I mentioned digital dingleberries. This occurred after you decided to butt in with comments about my digital rig. Your comments about the backbone of my digital rig needing to see a digital chiropractor had nothing to do with linear power supplies.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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December 1, 2020, 05:12 PM #200
Re: Ethernet switch box
It has everything to do with it. Your telling people an off the shelf switch fed with cat 8 terminated on premise (I assume) is just as good as a EtherREGEN with say and AQ cinnamon cable. I believe that is hogwash. So I say your leaving performance on the table. You then imply I have no knowledge of how to make it better. Well I do, as do others who have explained all the small parts and pieces that make up a significantly better whole. Your digital system, especially the steaming portion is not optimized. An optimized steaming system will come close to the performance of stored on rhe hard drive playback. On the hard drive will beat it. But it gets good enough that you stop worrying about where the media came from. Hard drive, NAS or internet. It all sounds darn good. Yes it cost more money. Maybe $2k to $3k to do an entry to mid level package correct. After that you could spend another $3k, but that is going to bring a smaller gain than the first outlay. And for how much money people are spending on DAC and servers. Many ponying up $20k to $30k or more, its foolish to not invest the $3k to set the digital backbone right.
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
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