Thread: End of the road DAC

Just found one. Betters Vivaldi and MSB Diamond DACs big time.

That is all for now.

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Just found one. Betters Vivaldi and MSB Diamond DACs big time.

That is all for now.

I've never heard of an end all piece of equipment but there's a first for everything.

I thought a Linn was the end of the road? That's what Mark keeps telling me!

I find it interesting how digital audio for people really falls into two different camps: those that seek uber detail and those that seek analog, smoother, warmer sounding. In our own DAC shootouts, I found many people picked the uber detailed DAC's because they could hear more - but over time, became fatigued. Whereas the more analog sounding DAC's didn't get picked often, but seemed to be the most enjoyable to listen to - long term.

No right or wrong, just an observation.

Mike - as I wrote you in our email exchange, it indeed used to the the case for the last 25 years or so.

The main problem with digital, was that DACs used to be very grainy. You could try to cover that graininess with tube lushness, which would make the DAC sound 'analog' and fluid. The drawback was that you had also sacrified the details by doing so.

On the other side there was a resolution camp, which went for the maximum details (dCS, Theta etc). The drawback of going after maximum resolution, was that you also exposed the grain, which made long term listening a tiring experience ...

And that is how people got divided into two different camps.

In my experience, the best DACs can do both nowadays. Due to vanishingly low jitter levels, they are ultra smooth, fluid and grainless, exceeding best so called analog sounding DACs in that regard. But since they do not have to sugar coat anything anymore to sound smooth, they can also offer superior transparency and resolution.

The DAC I just found is just such a DAC. The most fluid and grainless DAC I have ever heard (by a wide marigin !) and at the same - the most detailed, articulate and dimensional one. It is just spooky real. A game changing product for me.

Congrats Adam! I look forward to hearing more about your super new DAC.

Originally Posted by Elberoth

The DAC I just found is just such a DAC. The most fluid and grainless DAC I have ever heard (by a wide marigin !) and at the same - the most detailed, articulate and dimensional one. It is just spooky real. A game changing product for me.

Can't wait to hear about what you found Adam.

Originally Posted by Mike

Congrats Adam! I look forward to hearing more about your super new DAC.

Congratulations Adam. I look forward to reading more about it.

Did I miss the name of it or is it a surprise?

Its a surprise....sort of like Christmas....you know....

I am looking forward to hearing about it too.

I am in Mike's camp on the detailed versus smooth, but it doesn't relate solely to DAC's. The detailed versus smooth is also a preference in amps, pre-amps, and possibly to speakers. I have never heard a piece of audio gear that does it all. There are a lot that are close enough for me.

Adam, you're such a tease !!

Cool!!! Love hearing about new gear.

Originally Posted by Absolare

For me at this level it's not better, it's different and very system/room dependent.

This is exactly what I was expecting. Worst case scenario - slightly better or different to my MSB Diamond Plus DAC. I had absolutely no intention to buy another DAC, as I bought my Diamond just ... 2 months ago ! Plus the MSB has many features I like - analog volume control, upgradebility via module and software changes, many transport options, etc.

The magnitude of improvement, the way it bested my MSB took me completely by suprise. Afterall - the MSB Diamond Plus DAC is considered by many as the best dac there is ! How much better can you get than this ?

Not much. At least that was my thinking. And yet, the first moment I have heard the DAC I know that it is very special. This is not the kind of change you have to listen to for an hour to figure out the differences. We are talking about the difference you hear after 5 maybe 10s of on a familar recording. A quantum leap forward.

The more I have listened, the more depressed I felt. And the more I knew I had to buy it. I was eveluating the DAC for 3 weeks, waiting for the WOW feeling to wear out. But everytime I switched back to my MSB, I felt I'm missing all the magic, all the transparency and smoothness. The new DAC was an entirely different league.

I too am excited to learn what this DAC is, but if you won't give us a name yet, how about a price?

I will just clarify, that the DAC is not Made in Poland, it is not Lampizator - I know Łukasz (a great guy) buty didn't have a chance to listen to any of his DACs except some basic Level 3 or so. That would be too easy

We have a saying in Polish that it is darkest under the lamp, and it certainly applies to my very limited experience with his DACs, which are made nearby.

Adam...is the new DAC in the same price range as your MSB? It would be interesting to at least know what price category we are talking about...thx

What a tease!

Originally Posted by cmalak

Adam...is the new DAC in the same price range as your MSB? It would be interesting to at least know what price category we are talking about...thx

Well, this is a difficoult topic, as the DAC is VERY expensive, which means will only be available to the lucky few.

That beeing said, it is still cheaper than the full blown Diamond, not to mention the Vivaldi stack ...

Originally Posted by tunes

Ok, you want us to guess, is that it?
Not sure why you're holding back but i guess it builds excitement for some. Any chance you're talkin bout the Trinity DAC?

That came to my mind immediately too..... $52K!!!!!

Plus Adam was in that thread at WBF. LoL

There will be a shootout with this Dac and the Lampi Level 7 (Directly Heated Triodes) Dec 22 in Hong Kong!
http://gpoint-audio.com/lampizator-a...-only-dht-dac/

Originally Posted by Elberoth

I will just clarify, that the DAC is not Made in Poland, it is not Lampizator - I know Łukasz (a great guy) buty didn't have a chance to listen to any of his DACs except some basic Level 3 or so. That would be too easy

We have a saying in Polish that it is darkest under the lamp, and it certainly applies to my very limited experience with his DACs, which are made nearby.

LoL

I told him to rectify that. He will have a L7 in Vegas, so you may be there. He did have a L6 and Lampi destination speakers in the Warsaw show that drew crowds, I am told. Link to picture below.

LampizatOr system on Warsaw Audio Show 2013 | GPoint-Audio

Wisnon...sounds like the Trinity DAC as you say: DAC (Here's the mini review from WTB forum by someone who sold his Vivaldi stack to purchase the Trinity DAC:Wizard High-End Audio Blog: Trinity DAC. )

Originally Posted by wisnon

LoL

I told him to rectify that. He will have a L7 in Vegas, so you may be there. He did have a L6 and Lampi destination speakers in the Warsaw show that drew crowds, I am told. Link to picture below.

LampizatOr system on Warsaw Audio Show 2013 | GPoint-Audio

Łukasz - the bloody bastard ! I have visited Lampizator headquaters here in Warsaw just 6 weeks ago with John Żurek from the Positive Feedback, and he didn't say a word about his new, secret project !

He got a small room at the show as he made a very late entry, but he was getting excellent sound none the less. The speakers he was displaying with are not made by Lampizator - those are made by his friend, I belive under the name Destination Audio. Łukasz was speaking very highly of them.

Originally Posted by cmalak

Wisnon...sounds like the Trinity DAC as you say: DAC (Here's the mini review from WTB forum by someone who sold his Vivaldi stack to purchase the Trinity DAC:Wizard High-End Audio Blog: Trinity DAC. )

Ok guys, you won I bought the Trinity DAC and it is indeed as good (or better, as the HK folks didn't even try the USB input, which sounds best) as they say. Game changing product - game over DAC.

Perfectly correct Adam. The Speakers are from a Dutch collaborator and Lukasz claim they blow his mind.

6 weeks ago did the L7 exist? Ask him about the L9!! LoL

So Adam, can you give an overview of the Trinity tech that makes it sound so good?

PS. Anyone is looking for a 8 weeks old Diamond DAC ? Will sell it for half of what Trinity is charging for their DAC

Review of Trinity preamp ($34,750) from PFO: trinity preamplifier

Preview of Trinity Phono preamp ($34,740) in Dec. 2013 Stereophile's Analog Corner by Michael Fremer. He could not demo it as intended (as this phono is fully balanced design) and his Graham Phantom tonearm which can be wired balanced was not with him as he is getting the latest Graham Phantom tonearm. So when that arrives, he will do a thorough and proper review of Trinity phono preamp. His initial comments (using SE to XLR adapters but which negate half the circuitry of the Trinity phono, so not ideal) is that this is one of the most dynamic phonos he has heard, however, he is withholding commentary until he can hear it properly in his system as intended. So review to come.

All the boxes (preamp, phono, DAC, etc...have the same form factor).

Originally Posted by microstrip

Adam,
You should have sold it before referring to the Trinity!
Are you using the Trinity driving directly the MSB amplifiers or were there any other changes in your system?

Francesco,

I probably should, lol. I posted this info on this forum only for the time beeing, as it has limited readership.

As as for the preamp. this is where it gets interesting. I use digital attenuation in ... Jriver ! I have only changed the output to 24bits, which makes the attenuation far less sound degrading. The MSB had analog preamp built in - I rekon, on a regular analog preamp, bit perfect output, the difference may be even bigger !

But quite frankly - I do not care. It sounds much better with the Jriver volume than the MSB with analog one. It all that counts for me.

Really interesting stuff Adam, thanks !!

Adam, even though I can't afford one. Is it that much better than a Linn DS ?

Originally Posted by tunes

For you New Yorkers, Audioarts has one of these (Adam's DAC) Trinity's in the store apparently. Not sure if Trinity will be at CES or not. Anyone know?

Yes it will be. I'm already in contact with the manufacturer and US distributor.

Yes, Chris. I will PM you my cell.

Originally Posted by MDP

Really interesting stuff Adam, thanks !!

Adam, even though I can't afford one. Is it that much better than a Linn DS ?

Unfortunately - yes. It is just another league altogether. It is like comparing well specd Passat to Rolls.

Originally Posted by Jazzhead

Elberoth ... could you tell us please , what makes it so special . What are you using as Transport/Streamer . Have you been able to compare it to the Vivaldi DAC . Look forward to your thoughts .

If you are talking about my aureal impressions, then please read my previous posts. I have a hi-man PC server, fanless, with SSD, fast RAM, powerful processor, all SOtM bits etc.

I did not have a chance to compare it to the Vivaldi head to head - but it is in the cards. I think I will do such a comparo next month - a friend of mine owns the Vivaldi and wants to listen to the Trinity in his system.

Originally Posted by asiufy

Adam,
Congrats I was curious about that thread on WBF, where the designer showed up. It does indeed look cheap on the outside, but then, so does the MSB

It is actually very well made - much better than the MSB (it is made in Germany afterall). The box is made from a solid block of aluminium, the connectors, footers, even the screws used are of highest quality. See the images in the preamp review on the positive feedback site.

Originally Posted by elegy

Happy with my CH Precision C1 but it's also half the price (roughly) of the Trinity.
Maybe not a good idea for me to hear it

Please do not listen to one, if you have no intention / means to buy one. You will instantly start hating your DAC, and that is worst that can happen to an audiophile.

This is what happened to me and I just was not able to return it and start listening again on my MSB (I think that at least 2 months vacation would be necessary to force the sound out of my head).